Prophecies
Offline Hey, I've been debating a theist friend who keeps presenting fulfilled prophecies as evidence that the Bible is the literal word of the one true god. While I keep pointing out to him that each prophecey is either extremely vauge, almost certain to come true over the course of 2000 years, the result of being self-fulfilled, verified only by the same book that makes the prophecey, or just plain unfulfilled when looked at closely, he continues to barrage me with prophecies that I am sick of having to explain.
My question to my fellow rational thinkers is: do you have a good way to just dismiss prophecies outright, rather than dealing with them individually? I've told him that Miss Cleo and the Psychic Friends Network can also dish out prophecies for $1.99/min and that humans making guesses about the future doesn't mean anything. I was just wondering if any of you had anything good I could use. Do you know of any unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible I could use? Thanks for any help you can give me!
'The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.'
- Richard Dawkins
- Login to post comments
I think if you just dismiss them they will see that as you rejecting even the possibility of them being right and in a way being closed minded (at least in their eyes). I don't know if that is your intent. I would try to explain every time and probably in a way that makes their argument look foolish. Hoping critical analysis of each argument would lead them to critically analyze any of their own arguments as to not look so foolish in the future and then that would solve the problem completely. Of course that is just wishful thinking on my part.
Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.
I pretty much deal with the same thing with one of my theists friends, and i have to deal with it on a per prophecy basis (So far he is really annoyed with me
) I wish i had a one answer for all the prophecies, but one on one is working well for me, i say, take this as a lesson in patience.
The best way to disprove prophecies is to relate them to events that are totally unconnected to any biblical timeline.
Search through history, it's surprisingly easy to do.
Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not.
The best way, atleast in my opinion, to deal with prophecies is to bring up Nostradomus. This way you can show them how vague prophecies can come true in every day life.
These are Jesus' words, and IMHO, the trump card. They have to jump thru and twist and turn to get around this one:
Matthew 16:28 (New International Version)
28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
EDUCATION! EDUCATION! EDUCATION!
You can't win that way, all that means is that the prophesy hanst been fulfilled yet. The ones with a time limit (like Jesus returning within the lives of some of his followers) can be twisted so that it means whatever they want. just look at the old-earth creationists(slightly less insane than young-earthers) they redefine 'days' in '6 days' to mean ages.
Personally I'd turn the tables. Find prohesies from other religions (I don't personally know of any but given the way people like to make stuff up I assume they exist) that have been fulfilled. He will then be forced to disproove those in the same way you have been disprooving his, maybe that will help him to see it from the other side.
I doubt it
GodBox(tm) - Guaranteed completely impervious to logic or your atheism back.
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
Talk Origins has a good, brief refutation of the utter nonsense of prophecies.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH110.html
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
Thanks for the help, you gave me some good stuff to work with!
I'm going to also point out to my friend that his line of reasoning is:
1. If a supposedly divine writing contains many fulfilled prophecies, everything in the writing is the true word of god.
2. The bible contains many fulfilled prophecies.
3. Therefore, the bible is the true word of god.
I'm also going to type out a short "letter from god", in which god informs us that he will be dead in a couple days. I'm going to finish off this letter with a hundred or so "prophecies" that are almost certain to come true in the next week. These prophecies will be either extremely vauge, almost certain to come true over the course of a week, self-fulfilled, or be something that will remain unfulfilled for centuries. I will point out to him that by his own logic, we have to conclude that the letter really is from god and that god is now dead. Hopefully this will put an end to his prophetic nonsense since he'll have no way to verify the bible without also verifying the letter god gave me.
'The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.'
- Richard Dawkins
I doubt it.Believers have this ability to sheild themselves from logic,critical thinking,or anything that could possibly prove a flaw in their belief system.Well the majority of them anyway.
"Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions."--Frater Ravus
You can also point to the fact that Jesus directly contradicts a lot of the prophecies that apparently proved that he is the Messiah.
Look at my blog! It's awesome!
I'm also on this Twitter thing