I have a thread in the "Irrational Precepts" forum about Karma.

Hi SHLove and welcome to the forums.

When you get a minute, we'd love it if you'd hop over to General Conversation, Introductions and Humor and introduce yourself.

Well, first off I should say I worded that wrong.  I should have said "I don't believe in Karma the way I think or have been taught it is". Anyway, before I entered this thread I was under the impression that Karma did have much to do with afterlife and reincarnation (how you act in this life determines what your next life will be like).  I also thought that it had to do with negative and positive energy in a spiritual way (in this life), such as: you do something to hurt somebody, you will later be hurt (because of something "super natural", not because of coincidence or because of any logically explainable reason).  This I do not believe in.  However, in reading this thread I am hoping to learn more about the truth behind Karma. 

Now to your first post...I am sorry but I don't quite know what to make out of the scripture.  Is he saying that it has nothing to do with the supernatural and afterlife/reincarnation?  Or am I misunderstanding it.  Please pardon my (admitable) ignorance and further elaborate in what the quote means.  Thank you.

Yes, Karma, as it was originally conceived, does talk about how past living determines the shape of present living, and how present living determines the shape of future living. But it says nothing about your personal ego-consciousness reincarnating after your death. On the contrary, it explicitly states otherwise: As there is no self, there is no transmigration of a self; but there are deeds and the continued effect of deeds. For example, the sort of resentment for America harbored by various groups of people in the middle east is the effect of past deeds, and it's an effect that could take over a hundred or so years to completely where off, that's assuming things will change. If there is a great deal of abuse in a particular family, the effects of that abuse will echo on for many generations. Events that happen to us determine our character to varying degrees. So if your mother was abused to some degree in her childhood, there's a high chance that her mental wounds will cause her to abuse you in some way. In that sense, her life is your past life. And your present life is part of the past life of your children and the entire future of humanity. So take care! Be good karma.

Yes, many people take a very supernatural view of this, but I don't think that was the intention of the original concept. You do something to hurt somebody, and that somebody will likely hurt somebody else, and so on and so on. Not to mention, the mentality of a person who hurts others almost always ends up being very anti-social and isolated, and so they often feel punished for their cruelty toward others. Their bad behavior of course has causes, as they may have been abused by another person, who was abused by a family member, and so on. They may also have a genetic inheritance of certain traits that are bad, that have managed to survive over many generations. So in a sense, the thought that they have bad karma is true, but it's not in the way that they fancy it to be true. What they fancy to be true is 'literal' immortality. And this is quite a problem. Our past lives are millions of ordinary people, some downtrodden in sin, others ordinary, some exalted like Einstein, Hitler, Helen Keller, Marilyn Monroe. We inherit the fruit of the actions and achievements of our past lives (e.g., everyone buried in the cemeteries) Sometimes we are hindered by our collective past, sometimes we are benefited by it.

Precisely. Perhaps you might give it another close read.

And you are right to be concerned about your brother. But I think you should encourage your brothers interest in spirituality, because if you try and discredit his interest altogether, he might just get angry. He likely has a genuine need to find a sense of meaning beyond the more worldly sorts of things like hierarchical position, career, and getting the right women - he feels the pressure of being somebody and it's probably causing him a lot of stress. Try to encourage his interest with an interpretation of spirituality that isn't superstitious, but scientific. I can't think of a better place to start then the original concept of Karma - not to mention the Buddha's teachings in general. Taoism is good too.

Here are some great links to look over:

One of the best compilations of Buddhist Wisdom to be found on the net

Well, yeah, your right, it's pretty worrisome when a family member suddenly changes radically, especially when it involves religion. The best you can do is articulate to him the way you see it, and if he disagrees and carries on in a direction you don't like, well then, you might learn to appreciate buddhism a bit more yourself! As it's message of course is that much of the pain to be felt in life is involuntary and is out of our control, and that the best way of dealing with this fact is to work on not being too attached to people and things, to not resist and work with lifes changes wisely, rather than fight against them in vain.

Good luck, and take care.