A blog I enjoyed, by ex-Mormon, atheist feminist
Posted on: July 21, 2007 - 1:41am
A blog I enjoyed, by ex-Mormon, atheist feminist
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A blog I enjoyed, by ex-Mormon, atheist feminist
Posted on: July 21, 2007 - 1:41am
A blog I enjoyed, by ex-Mormon, atheist feminist
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I kinda liked the article, but the comment at the end made think, "Wait? What did I do?"
. . . and lately mine has been something like the inverse of yours:
"Wait, what did I fail to do or to notice?" and "Wait, what can be done to improve the situation, rather than who's fault is it . . . "
Whatever it is that contributes to the apparent dearth of strong, outspoken, prolific female atheists, I suspect it is more productive to wonder what can be done to meet the challenge of nurturing, growing, supporting, and instilling a strong sense of intellectuality and self-esteem among young women and girls.
Do you notice this seeming dearth of visible female atheists? Does it bother you, not because of anything you personally did (or did not do), but because women are representatives of a large portion of the population, who are more likely than men (atheist or not) to be teachers and care-takers of very young kids, and to exert a strong influence on the minds and thoughts of the very young; and who continue to be less likely to influence the ivory-tower thinkers in colleges and universities (be they atheists or not)?
I suppose that if "the establishment" - be it "patriarchal" and male-dominated or not - does not care to grow and nurture strong, scientific, independent, questioning female minds, the proper question now to ask really is, "who will do it ?" and not who do I blame, and certainly not to seek to avoid addressing the disparities. I suspect you'll agree with some of those questions, no?
I kinda started a topic on that issue, but I doubt that anything that is done that hurts a women's voice is something many would do knowing it would have that effect. I can't think of why a women would want to do something that would lower her voice and I doubt a father or husband would want to put the women in his life at a disadvantage.
Although some people might choose to lower their voice or teach a value that would hinder, they might think it would help other things.(edited to make sense) I remember someone saying men are paid more because they have to support a family, but never mind those single mothers :/
If you look on the bright side of that ratio though if you're looking for an atheist male who is looking for an atheist female you'll pretty much have your pick of the lot.
I'm not really sure what the point you're making is, but how could you possibly say "some people" do those things (which hurt a woman's voice), when - I suppose that - you know that atheists and free-thinkers, and most particularly women atheists are in a minority, and those who live in a bible-belt or other repressed societies, are dominated by cultures and leaders who would indeeed "hinder thinking"? Whether or not these things are done intentionally or unintentionally to "hinder a woman's voice" or to hinder thinking - they are still equally damaging, don't you think? Intent is certainly irrelevent, to whatever your argument might be.
In any event, my argument is that addressing the issue of inequality is more important than blaming one group or another.
Saying that you ". . . . . .doubt a father or husband would want to put the women in his life at a disadvantage . . ." does not discount the fact that the actions many millions take each day does indeed accomplish just that - whether it is done unwittingly or not.
You know, requiring a woman to wear a burqua is, to me, the western equivalent of always sexualizing the discussions when women show up for one.
I'm not saying you do that, but it is something I have experienced and observed, repeatedly, both online and in the real world. This too, is damaging, not only to women, but to society as a whole, in my opinion.
Could you clarify this statement, because it seems a bit esoteric, if not blaming, something I would like to avoid:
"Although some people might choose to lower their voice or teach a value that would hinder thinking it would help other things."
Don't really have a point, just talking about the issue.
The intent might be something to consider when trying to solve the problem. Like if Jon or Sally doesn't know whats going on they can't exactly fix it and Jon probably wouldn't know why he is getting yelled at. The idea that "men to hog the spotlight and take all the glory and credit for themselves" kind of implies they are doing it on purpose.
I think we are on the same page, but might be off a few paragraphs or at least close to the same page.
Ok I know sexuality would have to do with different genders, but I'm not exactly sure how thats the similar to a burqua. BTW guys can do the sexualizing thing without the females, guys hit on rook all the time.
Well I do engage in sexual innuendo so don't be afraid to accuse me of it, but how does this hurt society?
"Although some people might choose to lower their voice or teach a value that would hinder, they might think it would help other things."
I wrote that a little odd sorry. What I was trying to say was something like a mother telling her child that she must learn to cook to get a good husband, the mother's concern being marriage. Now thats not going to get the child to break out of gender roles, but the thinking was that marriage is good so do everything to get that. The idea of gender roles my not even enter anyone's mind. Maybe you can apply that idea to this sexualizing thing for me, I honestly don't get it.
In answer to your last question, there is a place and time for everything, including sexual innuendoes.
The time for that is usually not the first time people meet in an intellectual discussion forum.
Now, the 'Show and Tell' forum is a different story, though, and sometimes people seem to carry over inappropriateness from one forum to another, not realizing that the people they're talking to have minds and feelings, in addition to being sexual beings, attractive or not.
When people engage in inappropriate behavior - be it name-calling, or making rude comments about another's body parts, and then excuse it with comments like, "Oh, well! . . . evolution made us this way . . . " it does not excuse it at all. It's rather a cop-out for lousy behaviour and it does create a hostile environment for people attempting to civilly engage others on an intellectual plane, in a professional manner. It is sad to see people demeaned for setting and maintaining their boundaries in regard to sexual issues, as well, something that has happened to me and that I have observed many times.
It makes such a place both unwelcoming and demeaning, especially for the minority. At least that has been my experience and observation - not as often here - but very frequently in other forums and chat rooms, and with extraordinary frequency in the other parts of the real world.
Anyway, yeah, I do think we're on the same page, to a certain extent; and it is good to ask oneself, "what did I do" or fail to comprehend, and to honestly answer and address it.
Thank you, by the way for the very civil exchange and questioning.
I'm sure you did not intend to offend by suggesting that when women come to these forums, they are just looking for a husband, when you said:
"If you look on the bright side of that ratio though if you're looking for an atheist male who is looking for an atheist female you'll pretty much have your pick of the lot."
Perhaps that is the bright side for one who is seeking such, but it is a mistaken and offensive suggestion for those of us who are here for intellectual stimulation, friendship, and support. If a suitable marriage match comes out of one of these places, I'd be rather surprised and astonished.