Which vaccination?

Look it up at the CDC.

Matt, Robert Kennedy has made the rounds with information about a possible correlation between autism and the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine.  While it's great to get children vaccinated, it's not great to use mercury to get the job done.

 We've been exporting our vaccines to China, and the cases of autism there went from nearly zero in 1950 to almost the exact same percentage rate here in the US by 2003.

Vaccines, good.  Autism, bad.  Shouldn't have to play flip a coin to see if you get both.

Also the ability to detect autism has gone way up. By saying because a kid was diagnosed as autistic after getting a vaccination you are committing the same logical fallacy as the primitives who assume that their beating of drums caused the eclipse to end (post hoc ergo propter hoc.)

With no intent of disrespect, but this, coupled with the topic on pet food being poisoned by terrorists, really sounds like an "Only in America" kind of thing...

No need to apologize!  I just did not know how to phrase the question...if I did not have children, I would have never known about it either.  It seems as though it is one of those situations in which there were some cases reported with inconclusive evidence so naturally the general public kneejerked and the next thing you know there are rumors running all of the schools and internet touting it up to epidemic proportions.  I certainly would not say it is at urban legend level, but similar.  Ya know?  If you do decide to have children some day, be thankful that you are a skeptical, rational person because you will be astounded at the "advice" you get.  Oh it is all well-intended, but the majority of it is not sound at all.  Here is an example:  Do not let your baby sleep on its back, side or stomach..various "studies" support each of these statements individually.  Um, so what was I supposed to do?  Hang my children from the ceiling?  LOL

I'll probably have to step out in a minute, and check my notes, but for now, let me say:

I'm of two minds on this issue.

First, autism often begins with a regression... a 'normal' child experiences a sudden shift backwards, developmentally, from say, a '2 year old' to infancy, so it's not abnormal for this to happen.

Second, it's simply not plausible that a child would aquire autism in a week. I will present the neurological basis for this claim when I consult my notes.

HOWEVER

There is a stress diathesis model for autism, that holds that a genetic weakness, combined with an environmental stresser, may cause autism. So a vaccination may be a factor.

Off the top of my head, here is strong evidence for this claim.

Vaccinations began around  1938.

The first cases of autism in the world were reported around 1943.

These reports would be based on children observed around 1941-1943.

Mercury was present in these vaccinations. mecury is known to cause neurological damage.

It seems clear that we have a good inductive grounds for holding that autism was created, in part by environmental stressors.

Another strong indicator: autism was rare in the 40s, 50s and 60s.... it has become increasingly more common, just as our enviroment has increasing been more polluted.

By the way, one of the problematic chemicals is in plastic, the type of plastic used for baby bottles and baby toys.

Yes, you read that right. Crazy, right? Women were told to use bottles and as we became more affluent, we bought plastic toys for our children.... and these may be behind autism as well.

Anyway, I will return with my notes in a bit, for more info.... but at present, I'd say, it's not likely that the vaccine 'caused' autism, but it may have been a stressor that 'broke the camel's back'..... 

Good article.

2 things...USA has more abortions per capita than many if not all other nations.  Just throwing that out there.  I dont think there should be a ban on GM food. Id eat it.  All food we eat is GM and has been since we began farming.

I know you from the site and while I dont like the way you express yourself I never known you to be a liar...that being said Ill accept that it was researched and refuted.

I was merely defending the posters logical progression.  She was not using the same thought process as a primative. 

One reason I hate religion is because they pontificate.  "I'm right, you're wrong" and they look down on others who dont agree.  You seem to have the same stance...I dont care if what someone believes is refuted if they are not trying to push it on me. (In fact as logical as I like to think of things Im sure Ive done something for luck in the past, I know it makes no sense but who cares).  To me live and letting live is as important if not more important than being right. 

Being right or more logical doesnt make you better and believe it or not it doesnt make you smarter...if you think it does make you smarter go to a Mensa meeting...you will see the worlds dumbest people with 130+ IQs lol.

I am not really defending the parents here (though I believe it is someones right to vaccinate or not vaccinate thier child) I am defending the posters logical thought process.

Like the HPV vaccine if I had a daughter I wouldnt want her to get it.

I dont think it is a shame. 

 First and foremost they dont know the long term effects of the vaccine.

Most likely there are none but just makeing one point.

Also people die from reactions to vaccines often.

Again this is unlikely but still may happen.

Next, they are not vaccinating worldwide so there is 0% chance to stamp out a virus by vaccinating one country.

 Next 95% of HPV strains are not vaccinated for with the vaccine.

Next HPV is rarely deadly if properly screened for.

And smallpox was never as widespread at HPV is, I hear many different #s but everyone has the majority of adult women being infected.

Often?  Where are your sources with numbers for this? 

There are other negative reactions that can occur after vaccinating--autism isn't the only issue. Particularly when babies are given multiple vaccines right after birth, there can be other long lasting effects. Essentially, there just isn't enough data on some of the newer vaccines or the lumping together of multiple vaccinations and the effect on the immune system to completely disparage everybody who chooses to do things differently or attempt to research it on their own. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to do that in this particular area because it is so highly charged and often ridiculed. All in all, I wouldn't just go along with the status quo because somebody said it was stupid or akin to alien conspiracy theories. I would research it and do what I am comfortable with, especially considering that it is my child and not anybody else's.

It is unfortunate that the vaccine has hurt people. But to say that one death is too many for you to risk seems to be a bit of a strong statement. Any drug can have adverse effects on anyone. How many people died because of an allergic reaction to penicillin or codeine? Everyone is allergic to something. I'm sure if you looked it up even tylenol has killed someone (and I'm not talking about the kind with aluminum in it). I'm just saying not to count it out right out of the box. Sure, do more research and pay attention to developments in the drug, but don't just count it out. Women deserve every chance to beat this disease. If that chance requires that I vaccinate my child (if I had one) then so be it. It is hard to watch a woman have to go through all this at 22 or younger. However, it is still the parents' decision. If the decision is informed and rationally come to, then that is the best we can do. Glad to see that people are at least interested enough in their child's well-being to do the research.

Yep, excellent points, Kelly. There are nearly as many reasons for parents to decide not to vaccinate as there are parents. My daughter is almost 16, and hasn't had any vaccinations since the last series they get when they're about 2. Since she was diagnosed with an autoimmune related disorder when she was three, I made a conscious (if not entirely rational) decision to refuse any further vaccinations because although there's no uncontestable evidence that introducing vaccines into her system are what tripped her immune system into hyperdrive and caused it to attack her muscle tissue as though it were an invader, there's also no evidence that it didn't.

This wasn't an issue until she was in 6th grade and the school district wanted proof that she'd been vaccinated against Hepatitis B. Hep B is spread through intimate contact and since I was quite sure she wasn't at risk, there was no way in hell I was going to take a chance that this one shot could put her into a flareup when her disease had been in remission for 3 years after the last year-long flareup. What annoyed the crap out of me was that in order to opt out, if I didn't claim a "philosophical" (i.e. religious) exemption, I'd have to get a doctor's note for a medical exemption, which would have to be renewed every year.

Isn't it interesting that "because the bible says so" is a more acceptable answer than "because there's evidence indicating that vaccinations may adversely affect those with autoimmune related disorders, and I don't want to take the chance with my child's health"? As luck would have it we live in California, where "philosophical" objections are enough... while researching my options, I found that in some states, opt-outs must be "religious" or medical, (and most often require documentation), period.

I'm still on the fence about vaccinations, mercury and the rise in autism diagnoses. I'm not entirely sure that it's not being overdiagnosed when I see kids that are really just, as we called them in the old days, BRATS - but their parents have gotten a diagnosis of "mild autism" so allow their little cretins to run amok. The difference between such children and the autistic kids I've known and cared for is vast. However, I think the same can be said for diagnoses of ADD and ADHD, or any number of physical/mental health issues these days. On the other hand, our exposure to chemicals and evidence that some of them are dangerous has also risen, so it's important to keep studying immunology and our responses to all of these new chemical and biological agents.

Good discussion

1 death is too many in light of all the lives being saved. Im saying there is no proof that 1 life has been saved but there is proof of 1 death.

My son has vaccinations for M/M/R.  But he doesnt get the Flu vaccine and I wouldnt get my daughter an HPV vaccine.  There just isnt enough on the pro side for me with those.

And another side note to the other side notes, I dont think ADD and ADHD even exist.  Another ploy to sell drugs to kids.  ADD and ADHD (and if you have not heard of the newer one Adult Defiance Disorder) are due to numerous factors that include a fast paced society and bad parenting.  I dont think Drugs are really the answer to that...there is no long term study on the effects of those drugs on a still developing brain.  I think any parent that puts their child on drugs for these "mild" behavior disorders need to have their head examined.

But like you all should know, I am huge on individual rights soo.....until they are proved to be dangerous I dont think it should be illegal.

USA is the only country who recognizes ADD and ADHD...does anyone have proof or can condradict this?

Oh, they exist alright (although I agree with MattShizzle that they're being overdiagnosed). Until you've seen the difference in the behavior in a kid with ADHD between when he's medicated and when he's not, it's hard to imagine the difference it can make. I will add, however, that any parent who accepts a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD and then does nothing beyond giving their child drugs is heading for trouble; you have to be prepared to stay on top of things and work on the behavioral changes necessary to keep an affected kid on track. 

{mod edit: double post}

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