Confederate Pledge of Allegiance
Posted on: April 28, 2007 - 12:43am
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Confederate Pledge of Allegiance
Here is a really irrational idea for you. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jc5FEhPzNw)This YouTube video is really scary. I hear all the time that southern people are more modern thinking now, and that they are more accepting of minorities and can see the error of their historic ways. Apparently that's just a face shown to the resat of the country while the real South is preparing for the next secession. It's a good bet every one of the adults behind this disgusting piece of crap calls him/herself a christian. So much for christian love.
I tried to link this, and the link function didn't work. Why not?
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I agree there all attacks on all three. But there are:
Attacks on Those pro gun control
Attacks on Democrats
Attacks on CNN as if it were any more biased that FOXNEWS
IF you say any of the above statements are not true Ill call you a liar.
-Get it?
"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta
Three teeth might be a stereotype for a racist, true, but it can just as easily be applied to all southerners, as bad hygiene is a stereotype of southerners
Look at my blog! It's awesome!
I'm also on this Twitter thing
An area can be backwards if the people arent if the circumstances of the area (those in power, war, natural disaster) make it so.
Yes some stereotypes pertain to more than one group. That is what I meant if he was stereotyping him as a racist it is more understandable, since that was the foundation of his arguement, than if he was stereotyping him as a southerner.
"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta
that brought a tear to my eye thank god there still some southern pride in this hell bound yank backwards way country may the south hear your praise brother.
And the "enlightened" are incapable of seeing their own hypocrisy.....
You tried Pipeline, therefore I salute your effort. I suppose some people simply can't stand their own reflection.
And the stupid are incapable of seeing their own stupidity...
Any time you want to get your ass handed to you, try making an argument instead of trying to break the record for fallacies per word in a sentence.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Wow! I am from the south. I live in Mississippi. I thought this kind of BS was mostly dead, yet here it is from both sides. Yes, there are still some rednecks who cling to moronic racism, but most of the south isn't like that. we watch them spout their nonsense more than a little embarrassed for them. As for the pictures and flags, we are mostly honoring what the flags truly stand for and the sacrifices these men made for their cause. The flag never stood for anything bad, until pissed off racists adopted it. I refuse to give it up to them. No! It stands for the good things the south does stand for.
The history. Now I am not that much of a historian, but I have been reading a forum lately discussing the cause of the civil war. Combined with what I was taught as a young 'un, the was was over the south's right to decide what it would do about many issues rather than have the Federal government wrest that control from them. Slavery was a minor issue, but just as there were slave owners in the north, many southerners knew that slavery was quickly becoming impractical due to technological advances. Only some 7% of southerners owned slaves. the rest of us were dirt poor, mostly sharecroppers, which was pretty much an indentured servant. These people were not and probably would not fight to preserve slavery. Most of us were friends with blacks and even slaves. You can bet the rich landowners wouldn't rub elbows with poor white sharecroppers! We all resented the rich landowners. This is a lie that was taught by the north to make us look bad and them like a bunch of saints doing gods work. Really, I expected more from atheists who supposedly demand facts and do research.
Please get off the old misconception that we all hate people of different races, and that we all want slavery to return. In reality, the rich in this country are fast reducing all of us to slaves by devaluing our education so that more of us will choose to remain uneducated. A populace that is uneducated is easier to control. That's why the GOP is cutting out social programs, especially those that help us get educated. The rich don't want us to be more equal. The gap between the rich and the poor is increasing, and soon it will be that they own everything and we just work for them. They get us to thinking racism is the problem so we won't be trying to wrest the power they have spent 200 years usurping from us. Our country "for the people" is really "for the corporation".
PS: The "death by guns" problem in this country is also erroneously portrayed. These problems are caused by CRIMINALS with guns, who will still have guns if you outlawed them. It is a nice fantasy to want a world without guns or weapons of any kind, a dream I share, but there is little chance of that EVER happening. Meanwhile, when the rich decide they'll finally take total control of the military (they already have a frightening amount of control, just try to say something negative to and about a public figure and see how fast your freedom of speech gets you slapped in a jail cell) you'll be wishing you had a gun then!
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Well, the original video is long gone, so I don't even know how this got started. Even so, I am remembering a saying from the deep south:
“That boy is so dumb that he could not pour piss from a boot if the good lord done wrote the instructions on the heel”.
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No, I didn't see any video. Did I mention a video? No. Duh! I merely responded to the comments in this forum. I really love it when I get intelligent responses. I'm sure it will happen eventually. So much for the name "Rationalist Response Squad". Maybe this is the "inane stupid blatherings". folder and I failed to notice that on the way in.
The number of Southern idiots in this topic vastly outnumbers the number of intelligent Southerners in this thread. Think about that before making an ass of yourself.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
The number of Northern idiots in this topic vastly outnumber the number of intelligent Northerners in this thread also. Such statements prove nothing. I haven't made an ass of myself, nor am I trying to. I am merely pointing out a fallacy in the views to which I have responded. The facts led me to my conclusions. I thought that's what we were supposed to do. Still haven't seen any intelligent responses. I am not one to put stock in rumors of prejudice, but it seems that the attitude here is that if someone is from the south they are dumb and racist. Please tell me I am reading this wrong. I thought I was buying into a brotherhood of enlightened truth seekers when I finally admitted to myself I was an atheist. If I am to be castigated because of geography and culture by supposedly enlightened people, then there is truly no hope for the human race. We will never advance beyond petty bickering.
Now you just proved you're just another Southern idiot. Grats!
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Why do u say that? I have rationally stated my arguments. You haven't. All you've done is inane name-calling. I was pretty sure I was on The RATIONALIST Response Squad site, but it feels more like Irrational Theist central. Or maybe your prejudice is just too strong against southerners to make a rational statement? I just didn't figure rationalists would fall for fallacious rhetoric like "oh, all southerners were for slavery in the Civil War."
I must say this has dashed my hopes already quite a bit. I was expecting a rational response and all I get is prejudicial bs. Are there any rational people on this site at all? It seems most people are just ignoring this thread anyway.
The first line in your response made the rest not worth reading. Rational my ass. Also you clearly have reading comprehension problems. There were plenty of rational statements before the topic was dragged into the dirt by Southerner idiots.
No I don't have anything against Southerners in general. Just the idiots waving a flag that stands for slavery. And NOTHING else. Revisionists piss me off.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I don't wave the flag, but it does not and never did stand for slavery, and neither did/does/will the south. The northerners are the ones who are the revisionists, trying to make us all into hate-worthy racists. So I object. The topic was dragging good southerners through the dirt first, which is why I stepped in to correct the blatant stupidity and prejudice of the original poster, and others like you. Since you insist you hate revisionists, I find it amusing that you hate yourself, but it does explain a lot.
Saying that 7% of us spoke for all of us during the war is unbelievable stupid. Saying that an even much smaller amount now also speaks for all of us is so incredibly, mind-blowingly dumb that I cannot truly conceive it. I suppose some people just get off on hating people for no reason. Like racists, they are elitist morons. How can you stand yourself? Calling us the very thing you profess. I guess that is the way of bigots, though.
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Vastet, you are right on one point but missing critical details. You are also completely wrong on another.
First, it is certainly true that the first shots of the war were the south shelling Fort Sumpter, The detail that you missed was that it happened after a siege of over four months, during which, the south shelled every ship attempting to resupply the fort. Also, when the shelling began, the commander was working on the communique that would have started the surrender process as they had been essentially starved out of the fort. So yah, if the south had waited a few hours, the whole war would have, at least not started that day.
Where you are wrong is on the flag being racist. That never entered into the equation.
What really happened was that the south had an earlier flag (google “stars and bars” to see that one) which was so similar to the existing US flag that the battle commanders could not tell the norther troops apart from the southern troops (standing on a nearby hill top to assess the tide of battle).
A new flag was needed and the first proposal was one that Jews and Protestants refuse to fight under. So they came up with the Saltier Cross design that you are certainly thinking about.
That is pretty much it. It was a battle flag designed for purely military reasons. There is no racism to be had in the matter. That idea does not enter the public culture unto around the 1990's.
>>>>>>
Now on to our newest southern man:
I have been down south on business trips and nobody has ever said a racist word to me. I have also walked around Harlem and nobody had a problem with my being a white guy. In fact, a couple of weeks ago, I wore my kilt to a public concert and on the way there, I walked past a black couple. I distinctly heard the guy say to his wife that it was an important expression of my cultural heritage.
Sure, racism still exists. Rent a couple of rooms at a convention center. Put a hundred black guys in one room and a hundred white guys in the other. I would bet that it would be less than an hour before both rooms have people talking in racist terms.
Now open the partition between the rooms and let them all mix. Do you expect a race war or a bunch of people talking man to man?
Seriously, half a century ago, that crap was still important to people. Today, not so much.
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To: answers in gene simmons,
THANK YOU! At last, a reasonable, rational response! I agree with all you said. I know I didn't state my case all that well, but you certainly added to it eloquently. Maybe I should watch the darn video clip, but I really get mad and bored with people spouting racist crap waving the southern battle flag. It holds little interest for me. Thankfully, the internet and other worldwide media are exposing more people to new ideas and ways of thinking. Even those few who are racist here cannot stop their kids from learning the truth eventually. Now if only northerners would get the civil war fallacies out of their heads we could finally move past this bs. I think it is well past due.
I would point out that the states rights argument is one of those things that while it might be technically true is rather erroneous as an argument. You'll remember that one of the biggest focuses for the newly formed confederate government was to ensure that no law could be made that would impede their ability to own another human being as property. Now yes, there were issues in terms of soft vs. hard currency as well as questions of tarriffs and the like but I have trouble with the idea that states rights were the only focus. Yes, I also know that many of the people involved were poor sharecroppers and farmers, plenty of them didn't own slaves and may not have cared one way or another on the issue, that doesn't change the fact that their cause stank like a dead fish. As for people being friends with blacks...I find that one somewhat questionable, part of the antebellum society had to do with strong racial divides, it was both a means of keeping the poor white man in control as well as helping ensure that blacks remained enslaved. Were there some whites that were friendly to blacks, probably, and were there situations where blacks owned slaves, indeed, simply goodle freemen of color.
However, plenty of northerners didn't go south to fight against slavery, in fact that issue wasn't even the central focus until Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation. The wars real moral character could only be said to have emerged at that point coupled with Lincoln allowing blacks to serve in the army which gave the US much needed manpower and also provided one of the early ways for freed blacks to have some chance at a fair shake.
To be honest, I don't think southern people are bad or racist or anything like that, at leas t not as a group. However I have also seen large political blocks that will happily push forward legislation to stop church-state separation, end necessary social programs and in general try to cut the country off at the knees.
As to gun arguments, I find that somewhat erroneous. I recognize that a citizen should have some kind of right to self defense however how many cases occur where a kid takes his parents gun to use on someone, or where guns are purchased by 'legitimate' people and then sold later. I view guns as a tool, they in and of themselves are not a problem, however we need to look a the kind of people that get guns as well as where there are failures in our own gun laws. I do not own firearms and am a terrible shot, but I would defend someone else's right to own it.
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OK states rights was the legal hook on which secession was based. So it is certainly valid as one reason for the eventual war. To dismiss that as being a minor issue is just about as naïve as the blanket statement that the war was about slavery.
To fully grasp the matters that brought the war about, you really need to know what was going on in the country in general during the years before the war. One of the triggers that even got people thinking about abolition was the events surrounding the salvage of the Amistad.
Basically, that was a Spanish slave ship where the slave revolted and tried to force the navigators to take them back to Africa. Well they got double crossed because they actually headed due north, finally stopping to get fresh water off the end of long island. The ship that found them forced them to sail to Connecticut for salvage.
Now they could have claimed salvage under New York law and taken the ship. The reason for going to New Haven CT was because in 1840, that was a significant port for the slave trade in the north. Seriously, they went out of their way to go to a different state because the human cargo was a valuable asset in CT. In fact, slavery did not end in CT until 1848.
Some other states and when slavery ended:
New Hampshire 1845
Rhode Island 1842
Pennsylvania 1845
New Jersey 1865
Special attention should go to NJ because they had slaves after the war was over.
So yah, it is overly simplistic to say that it was about one thing or another. Many of the men who fought for the north were raised by slaves. Most middle class households in the north had one or two slaves right up until shortly before the war.
Once the abolition movement got rolling, it was never really about ending slavery in the south. It was mainly concerned with new states being added and the question of whether a territory could become a state if it had slaves.
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If you want to apply for Confederate States of America citizenship you can do it here - just send them a copy of your birth certificate, or proof of residence in one of the confederate states for more than 6 years, if you weren't born there.
http://csagov.org/
Optimism is reality, pessimism is the fantasy that you know enough to be cynical
Reply to MattShizzle on gun control:
I don't agree with that - Switzerland has an even higher gun ownership level, plus the govt actually requires people to own at least 1 gun in their house - and their murder rate is much lower. If a murderer can't use a gun, he'll just use a knife, a club, or something else - or they'll just by guns on the black market, leaving the law-abiding citizens defenseless. The idea that owning a gun is going to make a person want to go out and kill some one just doesn't fly.
Optimism is reality, pessimism is the fantasy that you know enough to be cynical
Right. And the battle of Appomattox court house was the beginning of the longest cease fire in history.
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Yep, there were several issues in the war. Slavery came to be one, but as mentioned above, it was whether or not to let new slave states in or not. Also, several northern states were "slave states" before, during and after the war as stated above. There had to be many poor whites in the south that were friendly towards the slaves, else the underground railroad would never have worked. I would bet that the upper class whites who actually had a stake in slaves treated the poor whites pretty much as badly as the slaves, perhaps worse, since they had to treat slaves fairly well to insure their investment paid off.
Joker, Abe Lincoln pledged not to interfere with the right to own slaves before the war or at the beginning, because northerners owned them too.
The but-holes down here interfering with the separation of church n state have just been indoctrinated all their lives with religious nonsense. They are usually good people. They just can't grasp that the bible might be a lie. Of course, there are those really ignorant people who seem ill equipped to entertain any thought, much less a rational one. I am sure the south has no monopoly on those types. Still that issue has nothing to do with slavery, so why bring it up?
Gun ownership bears heavy responsibilities. That's why I stated I believe in mandatory training and required additional training every so often. It is inexcusable when someone doesn't police their guns properly and someone gets hurt or dies, but think about how rare that actually does happen with all the guns out there. Guns are scary and I wish no one had them, but I fear that very soon now we'll all be wishing we had some. looks like the government is gonna fold any day now, but that's another topic for another thread...
I just wish northerners would quit acting like we all (or any significant portion of us) supported or support slavery and act like that is what the war was all about. we moved on long ago except or a few irrational die hards who are really uneducated or just full of hate for various reasons I can't comprehend. I seem to notice no shortage of neoNazi's and other hate groups worldwide. I think the kkk can only claim to be a different flavor, and don't corner the market by any means. btw, I seem to remember the Indian death march and wounded knee courtesy of our beloved Federal govt.. There's plenty of ownership to go around.
I'd rather spend my time working toward a positive future than pointing fingers, especially about things that happened long ago, I just couldn't let some misconceptions stated here go unanswered. I wish more people believed like I do that one thing some religions got right is that we are all brothers and sisters and should hate hurting others as much as hurting ourselves.
I'm still not sure if that site's a joke or for real..
Optimism is reality, pessimism is the fantasy that you know enough to be cynical
Ha Ha Ha! I just looked at this site. I see a grand opportunity here. Let's accept their premise that the CSA never surrendered and that all we have to do is claim to be the rightful successors to that government. We take out all the god references and insert Atheist principles and viola! we have an Atheist nation free of the USA's idiotic debt. We allow anyone to join who foreswears religion, and that is a requirement of citizenship. The religious can still live here, but have no citizenship or voting power. We peacefully separate ourselves from the USA and live happily ever after! Who's with me? This could work!
COME ON PEOPLE, WE HAVE A CHANCE TO START OUR OWN NATION HERE AND CURB THE RAMPANT RELIGIOUS RAVINGS RUINING THE SOUTH AT THE SAME TIME. WE ALSO CAN INSURE THAT AT LEAST A PART OF THE COUNTRY WILL SURVIVE OUR GOVERNMENTS INSANE ECONOMIC DECISIONS. A RATIONAL COUNTRY RUN BY RATIONALISTS! NO ONE CAN BE ELECTED WHO HAS A RELIGIOUS BELIEF! WE CAN FINALLY CHANGE THE WORLD.
BTW: I finally found a trailer for the "Confederate States Of America" Documentary. I can only hope it was meant as a joke, because I found it extremely insulting to southerners. I never knew Canadians hated Southerners so bad till I found this post. Shows what misinformation does. Too bad a certain canadian who responded to me here refuses to look at the facts like rational people are supposed to do. Thanks to those who did and posted the truth.
Come on now, I want us to start our own country!
They do? Did they take some kind of vote?
Lest you be guilty of that, can you prove that Canadians hate Southerners?
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
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Ah, you should watch the whole movie. It is a parody of the Ken Burns documentaries with the assumption that not only did the south win but it took the rest of the country over as well. It is presented as a legitimate broadcast and even has commercials for real (historical) products with blatantly racist names!
Not wanting to spoil it or anything but there is a scene of Abraham Lincoln in black face.
As far as starting a country, I would be down with that but a problem exists in my case. I was born in Indiana and live in the great State of Connecticut (first in flight!). So the CSA will not work out for me.
On the other hand, a couple of years ago, I won the throne of Sicily on a drunken bet with the real heir. When his father kicks, I can just declare us all citizens and we can stop paying taxes.
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One canadian who posted. I always thought ALL canucks were real laid back and cool. Ok, some other s were just northern USA.
AnswersInGeneSimmons, come on down, If all atheists move down here we can claim it as our own. We'll soon enough annex whatever other states we can, maybe leave Washington as the sole surviving United State with all that debt. Ok, maybe New York too. I'm excited! An Atheist Country finally!