War on Christmas... I feel sorry for you
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Sent : Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:22 AM
Subject : [War on Christmas] Christmas
Jay sent a message using the contact form at
http://endchristmas.com/contact.
I feel sorry for you. You live in a nation founded on a very strong belief in God (Christ), therefore blessed because of that belief. Is there another nation on this planet that has come as far as America has in a little over 200 years. As this nation with help from people such as yourself move away from God, expect to see the prosperity of this country gradually go down hill. Removing Christ from Christmas is only one of many efforts to remove the Christian doctrine that this nation was founded upon. To say that Christ has nothing to do with Christmas is not only morally wrong its just plain stupid. Its obvious that you have no knowledge of the Christian Bible or you have rejected it entirely. Whichever the case it leaves you in a sence of disbelief that will end in disaster some day. Where you choose to spend eternity will depend on wheather you take hold of and accept the fact that Christ is the only way
to heaven. So, in closing I truly pray that some day soon you will see the error of your way and repent.
Vote for Democrats to save us all from the anti-American Republican party!
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We do have a lot of knowledge of the Bible, and yeah, we reject it. And you are wrong about this country being founded on a very strong belief in God:
http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/xian.php
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NB: Sapient, et al. I'm not skiled in the art of argumentation so feel free to let me know of any mistakes I've made. Thanks.
First, your pity is unnecessary. I have never enjoyed life as much as I do now without religion and your God in the way.
Second, as others have stated, this nation was not built on a belief in a god (strong or otherwise). The founders of this country (for the most part) believed that God created the world and pretty much left it alone. As such, they felt no reason to bring him into the running of the country. Any religious trappings this country currently has were given to us by legislators who bowed to religious pressure.
Third, there are way too many atrocities and abuses in this country for me to have the audacity to call this country "blessed".
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy (America has come a long way in a little over 200 years so God made it happen? You're overlooking too many other reasons.)
The evidence contradicts you. The leader of this country claims that the Christian God speaks to him and the country is in monstrous debt and two wars.
And to say that Christ has anything to do with the holiday is plagiarism. That's morally wrong and intellectually dishonest.
Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence.
You don't know my knowledge level of the Bible so you have no call to talk about it.
Also, from the way I've seen Christians live their lives, I'm not the only one who rejects it entirely.
Can any Christian have a discussion without appeals to fear? I'd really like to know.
Scaring me into your religion doesn't work. I also lost any fear of hell when I became an atheist (making my life more well adjusted).
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Jay, you don't know your history, kiddo.
The Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, states that "the government of the United States is in no way based on the Christian Religion." (I put that in quotes, but I did it from memory, so it might be a word off, but the intent of the sentence is crystal clear.)
That treaty was ratified unanimously by Congress and signed by none other than President Adams.
You've obviously never read the Constitution, either. Give it a read sometime. It's not the easiest language, but you can scan it for the words "Christian," "God," "Jesus," etc... easily enough. Guess what? They're not there. The framers worked very hard to make America a completely secular nation. They provided for the complete separation of church and state in order to keep it secular. Anybody who tries to sell you another idea is working off of something other than the words of the founding fathers (most of whom were NOT practicing Christians, by the way.)
Yes, I have rejected the bible entirely. Want to know why? I read it. After that, I used logic and saw that it is almost entirely plagiarized, and that it is certainly not based on morality. (You should check out my post "Any Christians want to take a stab at these" to see just how moral the bible is.)
There's something about logic you clearly don't understand. I'll explain it in layman's terms. If you want to tie two things together logically, you have to provide the bridge. Here's an example of NOT tying two terms together.
I didn't go to the store today, and the Atlanta Falcons won their football game. Therefore, if I go to the store, the Falcons will lose their football game.
It's perfectly logical except that I have given no reason for you to believe that my going to the store has anything to do with football.
In the same way, you point out that bad things are happening, and that people are less concerned about Jesus and Christmas. Even if the world is worse off now than it was some number of years ago when people were more into Christmas, how can you connect the two?
I'd suggest that a decline in prosperity might have something to do with a decline in the standards of education, or it might be because most families are either single parent, or both parents work, and children are unsupervised more than they used to be. I could probably make a good case for either of those because there are scientific studies that link them. I know of no study linking the celebration of Christmas with a person's prosperity. Please direct me to the study if I've just missed it.
Thanks.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Yes. It's called Canada. I live there. You should visit sometime, beautiful place really.
Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine
Interesting you begin by saying there is something wrong with us, I'm sure this won't effect how view everything else you say...
Wrong. Plain and simple. I would go into more detail, but I think our history speaks better then our money...
Norway, Iceland, Australia, Ireland, Sweden, Canada, Japan. http://hdr.undp.org/hdr2006/statistics/
I kind of thought once you get on top it there is only one place to go, but I could be wrong. Also you suggest godlessness is the cause of poverty. If that is the case I guess Afghanistan followed the wrong one.
Again this isn't what our history says.
Morally wrong? Isn't that a bit extreme? Even some religious people say Christmas has nothing to do with Christ. Sure I can read the bible at a football game but that doesn't mean football is about Jesus.
I reject most of it yes, but a lot of people believe the bible is true without reading it and a few people believe it is false without reading it. It is kind pointless to bring up as if the bible spoke for itself we wouldn't be atheist and I'm pretty sure you got the idea that disbelief "will end in disaster" from the bible.
Pascal doesn't work on us...
(if this is the same Jay as show 31)If Pascal didn't work on the show why would it work now?
And I truly hope that some day you will see the error of your way and think.
I forgot all about not everyone on this site is even American.
That statement in itself defines you as an American
Heheheh. Most Americans I meet online don't even think of english speakers as living anywhere but the U.S..
If we're arguing, they start saying stuff about "this country" and "why don't you just leave?" and so on.
And then I point out that I'm Canadian, and they're all "Oh, that makes sense then." Or something of the sort.
*eyeroll*
You're one of the awesome people I meet online, so it's ok if you forget sometimes!
LMAO.
Do they have to bring your presents by dogsled, GlamourKat?
It doesn't seem fair because you're closer to santa's workshop at the north pole.
We're so rich in the US that we have santas on every street corner. How many do you have?
I'd still like to find a pregnant woman close to term at Dec 25th and have a real nativity scene by inducing her labor in a manger with lots of animals and people to witness it. Then let everyone come and see the scene.
I wonder how many people would still appreciate 'the greatest story ever told'. lol.
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Hahahahaha, yeah, igloos don't have chimmneys so it's hard for Santa up here.
But, seriously.
We don't have Santas on street corners, we have Salvation Army people and cadets. You can only find Santas in the malls up here, usually. Awwwwww.
Yeah the "miracle of birth" is pretty gross. I wonder if the woman would get charged for indecent exposure for giving birth in public on purpose. Like women who get kicked out of places for breastfeeding. It's weird, huh? There can be half naked sexual girls all over billboards, but the minute a woman uses her body for children, it's GROOOOSSSSS....
Although that birth movie they showed us in school did make me feel like barfing.....
Nah. I've watched five births (three of my own children. I missed my oldest daughter's birth.
) and cut two umbilical cords. The wonder of the moment kept me pretty calm.
I didn't consider it gross, just kind of messy. I wouldn't hesitate to use society's revulsion for it to give them some facts concerning their messianic orphic traditions though.
Every nativity scene that I've ever seen doesn't have bloody or amniotic fluid filled towels laying around.
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You think it's gross normally, try watching it in reverse. Our sex ed teacher rewound it immediatly after showing us. There's really nothing quite like watching reverse birth. Not that want anything like a reverse birth. Ugh.
Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine
I've always thought it would be so much better if humans could just lay eggs.
Anyhoo...
Has this person ever read anything about the history of Christmas?
Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25, if he was born at all, and the day was originally part of polytheist festivals, so why is he offended that people make fun of it?
It's like being hurt over jokes about the Easter Bunny.
To the poster...
Love ya bro, but I would have to politely dissagree. I don't think America was founded on Christian principles. Rushing around and killing, raping and cheating Natives out of there land has a lot to do with Lucifer and not Jesus.
Also, Christ should be taken out of Christmas because there is nothing Christ like about it. It is really a holiday about materilisum and anxiety. But the worst part is that it is actually based on a druidic, pagan holiday. The druids used to take trees into there homes and set presents under them and worship them! It's sad but true. But the bible says it best: "Learn not the ways of the heathen... for the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest with an aze. THey deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." --Jeremiah 10:2-3
I am not meaning to judge this man and say that he is wrong and I am right. I am just pointing out something that God has shown to me. Hopefully we can get away from holidays like Christmas and national pride to focus on the things that are really important.
Do you know what pagan holiday is