Asking for proof is wrong + Pascal's Wager (YOU RESPOND)
Posted on: January 30, 2007 - 4:06am
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Asking for proof is wrong + Pascal's Wager (YOU RESPOND)
YOU RESPOND:
broker wrote:
First of all, Since this orginization is so up on there Bible verses, Then you should know that also in the bible it states this - It is impossible to please god with out faith- And the definition of faith is beliveing in what you cannot see.,so therefore why would you challenge the youth to {prove} thier god to you? what you are doing is violating peoples belief's and that is supposed to be one of our freedoms, you have made up your mind, and your orginization is clearly against religion and god. and using munipulation to gain popularity in the backing of your decision is the worst thing you can do. I am a christian and im not going to try and pursuade you to follow in my ways, but i will say this wouldent you think that it is better to be safe then sorry, If you know there there is a good change that swimming with sharks could get you killed wouldent you bring a weapon? Our weapon as christians is our faith, that is what we carry with us thoughtout our lifes, it is our security. ill leave you with this the Bible says "It is a fearfull thing to fall into the hands of a living god" Repent!!! just wright back and let me know what you think?
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We don't care what the Babble says since it is so full of ridiculous, obviously false and horrific thing it obviously cannot be true.
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Malichi 2:3 "Behold I will corrupt your seed and spread dung upon your faces"
Isiah 45:7 "I create good, I create evil, I the lord do all these things".
Yep, we are up on our bible verses and we also know that most Christians arnt and the ones who are will cherry pick verses and ignore the ones that put their fictional hero in a bad light.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Why would we care what the Bible says about faith and how we can please God? We believe in neither.
Why would we challenge the youth? What? Do you not challenge those who have beliefs opposite to yours? Do you not challenge the faith of other religions? What we do is no different than most, if not all, religions - preach and convert. Only, in our case, it's inform and deconvert. There is no evidence for your god, and when we question people about this it can bring them to an eye opening realization - that they may be wrong.
Furthermore, how is what we do a violation of yours or any others' beliefs? It's a free country... sort of. You have the right to practice your beliefs, to worship the way you see fit, and we all have the freedom of speech. By professing my unnaproval of your religion, I am not hurting you or infringing on your rights in any way.
And manipulation? You are accusing RRS of using manipulative tactics to deconvert? Ha! How ironic. If there is one area that religion exceeds in its manipulation. We don't coax people into believing lies or baseless concepts. We don't threaten with hellfire or promise eternal blissful life as reward. We don't turn people into sheep or demand money for worship. Our goal is not to close peoples' minds, but open them. Freethinking people are not so easily manipulated.
And yes, using manipulation to gain popularity and attain followers is one of the worst things you can do. Perhaps you should heed your own advice.
Well, at least you are smart enough to see the futility in preaching to atheists, most of whom are ex-Christian, but Pascal’s wager is really getting old. Why don’t you go present that argument to a Muslim or Hindu or something? I’m sure they would say the exact same thing back to you. Why not play it safe and believe in Allah? After all, if he exists and you are a Christian, then you are damned. So, you better hurry up and convert, just to be on the safe side.
Your faith is your weapon? It sure is an ineffective one. I’d say it’s more like body armor. Or better yet, some kind of sedative so you can’t feel the pain whenever someone comes along and tears your weak theistic arguments to pieces.
Well, good thing for me he isn’t real then.
Flying Spaghetti Monster -- Great Almighty God? Or GREATEST Almighty God?
Actually, the definition of faith is believing in something without proof. Close, though.
That's just it; there isn't any proof. Progress is attained when a current system of beliefs is challenged. If those beliefs fail to hold in the face of that challenge, then we adopt a new system of beliefs. So far, no one has been able to provide proof of god's existance. That being said, don't you think it's time for progess?
You should really monitor your use of hyberbole a little more closely. Challenging people to question themselves is no more an act of violation than you sending us this counterpoint. If we are violators, than I'm afraid you join us in that title.
Hey, we're not telling children they're going to hell if they break or question the mythical ten rules of atheism. None of us live in fear.
I bet you will with the next sentence.
Hey, I was right! A clairvoyant atheist, how about that?
No. I just wouldn't swim with sharks. That would be crazy.
You're right, faith is a weapon. Too bad it's one you can only use on yourself. That does seem like something I'd call 'security'.
I'd say that it's fearful to fall into a world where the one system of belief that is exempt from the scrutiny of critical thought is the same one that so many use to define themselves and guide their decisions.
Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine
Asking for proof is wrong?
Here's the only response this nonsense requires:
Would you accept that excuse from someone else?
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
"It is impossible to please god with out faith- And the definition of faith is beliveing in what you cannot see.,so therefore why would you challenge the youth to {prove} thier god to you?"
Because through others, one can identify irrational beliefs and possibly reject them as irrational. No one gains anything by having irrational beliefs and no one loses anything by giving up irrational beliefs. At best, the questioning of own beliefs can actually refine and better the system of beliefs the person has.
"what you are doing is violating peoples belief's and that is supposed to be one of our freedoms"
There is nothing wrong in questioning and criticising beliefs that are irrational or simply untrue. If your beliefs are true, you should be able to defend them in a discussion.
"i will say this wouldent you think that it is better to be safe then sorry"
You said you are a christian. Are you praying to Mecca just to be on the safe side?
If you know there there is a good change that swimming with sharks could get you killed wouldent you bring a weapon?
Sure would. An actual weapon would be good, instead of just telling yourself that "if I just believe they can't hurt me I will be OK", which is EXACTLY what relying on faith amounts to.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Yes, you are probably right. We, however, don't want to PLEASE God, we only want to KNOW WHETHER HE EXISTS. If we know that he exists, then we'll blindly believe in him.
But we aren't forcing anyone, are we?
Pollitical opposition is also against the current pollitical power, and that doesn't violate anything.
The Church is against us, should we also feel violated in our rights of religion?
(PS: Learn law. It pays.)
Manipulation? Would you give an example?
Uuuuuu... I'm so frightened... That's why I hold my axe, affectionately named "George", right next to my bed... and where did I put my hunting knife?
Ours is simply rationality.
Am I the only one who fails to see what connection is there between this and us?
No thanks. I'm happy the way I am.
Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
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