I believe in God = I believe in being compassionate towards myself

There is a pathological reason, a mistake in the mind's machinery that results in the belief in God. God is ultimately compassion towards onesself in the eyes of a theist. There exists a falacy, though, because there is nothing that you need forgiveness or compassion for from God.

Psychologically, what happens to the theist (and many people throughout all of human existance) is that they develop a complex of subservience that is a result of the evolutionarily advantageous maleability with which each of us has as a child. The human child is designed to listen and submit to it's parents out of necessity to survive. It does what mommy says because mommy cares about her child and gets very angry and emotional if her child is in danger. The child gets scared and does what mommy wants. But mommy doesn't always know best, and the child may develop a belief that, in fact, many of it's actions will result in mommy being angry, and thus many of it's actions are "wrong." The child begins to understand what is right and wrong from mommy's reactions.

When the child matures into a teenager and then an adult, it has developed its own capacity for full conciousness, thought and the like. These stages are when the child slowly begins to break away from its need of its mother and family, and the now "person" has their own personality, mind, and whathaveyou. But what is not lost is the STRONG beliefs and feelings about right and wrong that they learned as a child, some of which don't make a lot of sense. "Oh, that's just one of those things I might of really believed as a kid," we say, to joke around about how silly those childhood beliefs may seem. Unfortunately though, most people hold on to some of these silly beliefs, including the general sense that you somehow may be "wrong" in many ways, or as they say in Christian terminology, a "sinner." And what does a "sinner" need? Saving.

God can save you from your sins. He is the one all-loving, omniscient, omnipresent (in your head), all-powerful being , is never wrong, and is the one who can save you from your own belief that you are wrong. That mommy put there. And that which you were forced to believe as a child. So of course, you LOVE GOD! He makes you feel whole, complete! Worthwile! Makes you feel confident in yourself! He LOVES YOU too!

So, in fact, God = the compassion one needs in order to feel good, and to be whole. Your imaginary compassion-person who is God lives in your consciousness, there for you when you feel like shit and you are in need. When your dog dies and you don't want to believe you will never see it again. When you're broke and unemployed and desperate. This friend you create as a figment of your imagination is the final product of this convoluted pathology.

But wait. How are you sinner? Is it your fault? Is it your fault if Adam and Eve made this supposed "original sin"? Of course not. In fact, Adam and Eve exemplify true heroes of humanity: they decided to accept their OWN worth and dignity as HUMAN BEINGS and question things around them. They ate from the Tree of Knowlege (oh, and how sweet its fruit tastes!). And that's exactly what God doesn't want you to do. He doesn't want you to accept your own worth and dignity as a human being. He wants you to be a slave, a servant, a mindless follower. He DOES NOT want you to be human, and that right there kids, is where you have to make the choice. Do I believe in a God who doesn't believe in me? Or am I the Human Being that I really am? I am proud to profess which one I believe. I'm sure you can tell which one I chose.

The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...

todangst's picture

Tomcat wrote: There is a

Tomcat wrote:
There is a pathological reason, a mistake in the mind's machinery that results in the belief in God.

I believe Dawkins touches on the idea that god belief is a side effect of the evolutionary drive to trust in your parents.

This can be combined with psychodynamic theory (introjection). 

 

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 God is ultimately compassion towards onesself in the eyes of a theist. There exists a fallacy, though, because there is nothing that you need forgiveness or compassion for from God.

It is my sense, already (I comment as I read along) that you are going to be speaking about the super ego, or 'conscience'.

Our conscience can be punitive and harsh.

Some theists believe our conscience comes from "god". C. S. Lewis based his entire theological position on this belief.

Psychologists have known for more than a century that our conscience comes from our parents, or whoever was involved with our early upbringing.  From the time of infancy, we hear a calvacade of "shoulds' and "shouldn'ts' from our parents... long, long before we're able to be self aware.

This collection of oughts and shoulds becomes internalized through a process called introjection - constant repetition (inculcation), at an early age, of things we should and shouldn't do, eventually become a part of our own minds. What was once "outside' is now considered to have originated 'inside'. There are times when it feels foreign, there are even times when we can literally hear Dad, or Mom lay down a rule.

But for the most part, this process is unconscious. We simply accept the rules as rules that one should follow. Because they are 'the rules'  

So if you have a loving upbringing, you'll likely have a healthy super ego.

If not, well... you'll likely have a punitive, harsh and perhaps even cruel superego.

Would it surprise you to know that John Calvin, one of the most tyranical and hateful theists, featuring a cruel and unfair god, had a cruel father?

 

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 Psychologically, what happens to the theist (and many people throughout all of human existance) is that they develop a complex of subservience that is a result of the evolutionarily advantageous maleability with which each of us has as a child. The human child is designed to listen and submit to it's parents out of necessity to survive. It does what mommy says because mommy cares about her child and gets very angry and emotional if her child is in danger. The child gets scared and does what mommy wants. But mommy doesn't always know best, and the child may develop a belief that, in fact, many of it's actions will result in mommy being angry, and thus many of it's actions are "wrong." The child begins to understand what is right and wrong from mommy's reactions. When the child matures into a teenager and then an adult, it has developed its own capacity for full conciousness, thought and the like. These stages are when the child slowly begins to break away from its need of its mother and family, and the now "person" has their own personality, mind, and whathaveyou. But what is not lost is the STRONG beliefs and feelings about right and wrong that they learned as a child, some of which don't make a lot of sense.

Yes, and I'd just like to reinforce that there is not just the teenager, with his self awareness, and the mother with her rules.

There is also the teenager's superego, which in turn IS the mother, the father, working on the side of the parents, inside the teen, yet accepted as if it is merely "the way things ought to be" and not just "what mom said when I was 2"

This is why the interaction is so difficult. If it were just mom saying X and you saying Y, well, as hard as mom might be on you, you could work most things out.

But if there is a superego, inside of you, pulling you towards mom, and your own ego, pulling you in another direction, well then, this is where the torment would really occur... inside.

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 "Oh, that's just one of those things I might of really believed as a kid," we say, to joke around about how silly those childhood beliefs may seem. Unfortunately though, most people hold on to some of these silly beliefs, including the general sense that you somehow may be "wrong" in many ways, or as they say in Christian terminology, a "sinner."

Yes. This is why it's such a cosmic joke for a christian to say "I grew up a doubter, and became a christian at 22"

Bullshit. The seed of christianity was planted in you at age 2. Even an atheist parent spits out enough "jesus christs" and 'god damn its" and "god knows" to inculcate the basics of christianity.

And most parents are not atheists, most do inculcate christianity.

The evidence that this is so is found in the fact that most of the 'late converts" tend to have the same religion their parents had....

So my point here is that the superego is the seed, it's within us all.... It's powerful. Let me give you an example.

I was raised catholic. My mother was a sunday school teacher's aid. When protestants appear on our board, I have no problem setting into their miserable arguments. But even today, if someone on the board tries to rip apart a catholic argument, I find myself feeling slightly defensive.  I find those beliefs... slightly less silly.

Is it because the trinity or immaculate conception makes more sense? Obviously not. It's because I was raised in those ideas from the time I could talk to the time I could think for myself. And during that period of time, those ideas were repeated so often that they were normalized.

Whatever is repeated enough times is normalized. If mom and dad believe that people are sinners, then this will become a foundational part of your conscience.

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And what does a "sinner" need? Saving.

Yes. Christianty creates the dilemma, and then offers the antitode. "God' purposely creates you as flawed, and then offers the salvation, despite yourself.

I've heard christians admit that this is the best way to prostelyze, because it DOES create anxiety in you. They feel they need to terrorize you, otherwise, you'll not hold to their belief.

And they call upon your guilts, built up through parental inculcation/introjection, to frighten you.

I have written something on Ray Comfort's recent video, where he admits that the only succesful way to win converts is to terrorize them. I will give you the post after I finish writing here.

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God can save you from your sins. He is the one all-loving, omniscient, omnipresent (in your head),

Very good! That IS how 'god' is omniscient and omnipresent! Because 'god' is your interpretation of your conscience!

So of course, he knows what you're thinking! Of course he's always there! 

It's amazing how narcissitic it is.... yet, in a sense, it's not narcissistic, because people simply fail to realize that their conscience is simply their early life experiences of parental oughts and shoulds. In a sense, the person they are now, wasn't 'there' to be aware of the process, so they have no direct way of knowing that this process is merely introjection.

So interpreting it as a 'god' is a natural mistake. This is precisely how people 'fellowship" with 'jesus'.. this is precisely how they 'know' there is a god.... by misinterpreting the conscience's origin.... 

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all-powerful being , is never wrong, and is the one who can save you from your own belief that you are wrong. That mommy put there. And that which you were forced to believe as a child. So of course, you LOVE GOD! He makes you feel whole, complete! Worthwile! Makes you feel confident in yourself! He LOVES YOU too! So, in fact, God = the compassion one needs in order to feel good, and to be whole. Your imaginary compassion-person who is God lives in your consciousness, there for you when you feel like shit and you are in need. When your dog dies and you don't want to believe you will never see it again. When you're broke and unemployed and desperate. This friend you create as a figment of your imagination is the final product of this convoluted pathology. But wait. How are you sinner? Is it your fault? Is it your fault if Adam and Eve made this supposed "original sin"? Of course not. In fact, Adam and Eve exemplify true heroes of humanity: they decided to accept their OWN worth and dignity as HUMAN BEINGS and question things around them. They ate from the Tree of Knowlege (oh, and how sweet its fruit tastes!). And that's exactly what God doesn't want you to do. He doesn't want you to accept your own worth and dignity as a human being. He wants you to be a slave, a servant, a mindless follower. He DOES NOT want you to be human, and that right there kids, is where you have to make the choice. Do I believe in a God who doesn't believe in me? Or am I the Human Being that I really am? I am proud to profess which one I believe. I'm sure you can tell which one I chose.

 

In a sense, wholeness, or mind health would come from grasping the true origin of your conscience, and then working to create a more mature, three dimensional conscience. The reason a conscience is so punitive is because you formed it when you were 4 years old. It's pretty hard to encapsulate people in a mature fashio when you're 4!

As an adult, you can come to better understand mom and dad, see them as humans with faults. This allows you to reformulate your superego.... you can use your more mature ego to make your superego more mature.

And when you do, the simple, angry, pathetic "Yahweh" superego will become a Buddha, or even a Dawkins if you prefer... it's your choice.

 

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'