Er, if these are knights for atheism, why do they have crosses on their shields?

Or do I misunderstand?

I suppose someone could have gone to the trouble of puting "not" symbols across the crosses, but the only point meant by the picture is to demonstrate how ridiculous it is to claim that people kill in the name of atheism....

You know I'm going to have to go to the trouble...

Thanks, I'd appreicate that...

LOL   I was going to suggest completely blank shields... thank you!

I'm an atheist knight.

Not to worry tod, I will find that person or group that killed specifically to spread atheism and I may also pin atheism as a reason Hoxha killed people. And when I do we will see who has the last laugh.

BWAhahahahahahaha 

Even if you succeed, what exactly does that prove? It wouldn't change the fact that theism inculcates dogmatic thinking, and that it can be used to justify hatred and violence towards others.

Besides, I already gave you Leopold and Loeb, you should try working that angle.

I hate it when other people are right.

 One of my main arguments is that while religion may be one reason, it's not the only one. There are also political motivators. Hitler probably could have rallied up support if his followers weren't Christian (He used that building fire), it may have been harder if Germany was mostly atheist, but I doubt it would have been so difficult that Hitler wouldn't have been able to do it. He was a very good public speaker and knew just how manipulate people to do his bidding.

Of course it isn't. The original motivation is not religious, if it were, then one would expect that it would be something rather innnocuous, like "be nice to each other"

The problem is that religion justifies greed, envy, anger, hate.. the motivations are often political, economic, etc.

Of course. But the problem is that once religion enters the fray, then what was once a purely human motivations is artificially elevated as the desire of an omnipotent god. And this drives out rational thought. 

If you and I have a disagreement upon a subject that we agree is debatable, then we can debate the issue rationally.  But once one side claims "God is on my side" then then the 'wrong' side is no longer just wrong, but evil. Then violence can be justified. Tolerance is no longer required.  This is the problem.

You're leaving out the most significant factor: That Hitler didn't invent anti-semitism. Christians did. The German people were persecuting Jews back to the times of the plagues, where hundreds of jews were killed for 'causing the plague."

Hitler was persuasive, but he couldn't just invent long lasting hatreds... he could only call upon them. In fact, Hitler himself grew up an antisemite due to the antisemetic zeitgeist of late 19th century Germany. 

There's no doubt that any person on earth, theist or atheist can become dogmatic in their thinking, anyone can cling to an ideology, anyone can fall for a charismatic "savior" like a Hitler... but the problem is always one of dogmatic thinking, of clinging to beliefs based on emotions like greed, egoism, anger.... and therefore any system that inculcates dogmatic thinking is a danger.

I think people can invent hatreds.

For example during the Cold war, Russians hated Americans and vice verca. The Soviets didn't have to act on 'pre-hatred' of America, all they had to do was convince the Russians that America was the cause of their problems. Russians had no previous reason to hate America, so I guess the Soviets invented a hatred. The Soviets didn't just say 'hate America because I say so!', they said 'America is your enemy! They do evil things to you! They are the reason for your problems! We will protect you from them!' That in essence created a sort of dogma, that  otherwise couldn't have been formed if the Soviets hadn't created the hatred.

Hitler could have done the same thing. 'Jews are the enemy! I will save you from them!' So in that sense he didn't have to play on pre-existing anti-semitism, he could just create his own. He could blame Jews on the poor economy or whatever. Of course, if you were already anti-semitic you were easily convinced, but if you weren't Hitler, could have convince you to be anti-semitic just like the Soviets convinced their citizens to be anti-Americian.

Of couse they can.  Where else do you think they come from?

But the point to you was that Hitler didn't invent antisemitism.

Hitler didn't invent the idea that the Jews were behind the plagues found in the Christian world! Have you ever heard of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

Hitler grew up in a world that already featured Jewish pogroms!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogroms 

Again, mass murder of Jews goes back centuries:

In 1348, because of the hysteria surrounding the Black Plague, Jews were massacred in Chillon, Basle, Stuttgart, Ulm, Speyer, Dresden, Strasbourg, and Mainz -- 12,000 in Mainz alone^{[citation needed]}. A large number of the surviving Jews fled to Poland, which was very welcoming to Jews at the time.^[2]

Your arguments are completely ahistorical. 

You're not making any sense. He couldn't invent something that already existed. Hitler grew up an antisemite in an antisemetic culture. He didn't invent antisemitism. He played upon pre-existent antisemitism. Whether or not he added to it in his own unique way is moot: the fact is that he was playing to a pre existent hatred, and this hatred was created by christainity.

Please read this: http://www.rationalresponders.com/hitler_and_martin_luther

 It might interest you to know that the nazis considered Martin Luther the "the first German spiritual Führer"

Oh I see. I thought you meant that Hitler couldn't convince other people to be anti-semitic.  Never mind then.

Dude suriously one of the few theists i've seen on these boards and many others who admit when they where wrong in something. Very Very admirable.  Wow i feel really refreshed thank you.