Neocons or Theocons and the spread of Jihad.

LeftofLarry's picture

Ok, it's left of larry's rant time.

This administration continues to lie cheat and steal to propagandize an ideology that is completely and foundationally flawed. Their ideology is antithetical to the most foundational ideas of a free democracy and the United States Constitution. Thomas Jefferson and the rest of the great fathers are spinning in their grave.

Why do they do this then? The reason is simple. Money and Power. The ideologies of the neocons reside within a selfish, money driven system that uses religion, corruption, stealing, cheating and even murder to achieve what neocons percieve as the Straussian hegemonic wet dream. I am not communist, however, it is ironic to me that the staunchest neocons will tell me that communism will never work because of human nature's intrinsic inevitablity that it will be corrupted. Well guess what, corruption seems to be the standard in our system of governance and economy. Corruption...human nature....I say stop hiding behind cop outs and straw man arguments. I don't claim to have an answer, but at least be honest with yourselves.

Religion is playing a huge part of this. It is plain to see, and Bush has even mention religious reasons for the war in the middle east. THey have conveniently used and propagandized terms like "islamo-fascism" to get your mind away from the real reasons why we are in the middle east, forcing democracy through the barrel of a gun. Religion is what is feeding this fire of hatred, it is the fuel. It gives the xtians the realization of their apocalyptic wet dream, it feeds the jews' zionist hunger for their return to their promised land, and it gives the muslims a reason for jihad. Religion...is the elephant in the room.

What the United States needed to have done, is to confront the middle east from a rational and secular approach. To try and quell the extremism by not giving jihadists reason to do what they do.

When Bush stole the election in 2000, they were so fucking giddy that their wet dreams had finally realized, that they didn't even bother to dot their I's and cross their T's. They knew Iraq was a short 9-11 incident away. They were complicit at worse and nonchalant at the very least about the events leading up to 9-11. They controlled congress, and the white house, and eventually the senate. They aligned their neocon ducks and now we see the end results of their agenda....as prescribed within the texts of PNAC written in collaboration with Israel.

All this while keeping the public confused and angry by liberal's assault on religion. They used the gay issue, anti-abortion, public display of religious artifacts etc...as means to distract the public from their real agenda. All the while, haliburton, enron, the Carlyle Group, betchel and the slew of other defense contracts that got rich....rich...rich. Forbe's top 25 most powerful men in the country are now all Billionnairse. THe rich get richer, the poor get poorer. The middle class is disappearing, and the tax burden is being unproportionally placed on this disappearing middle class.

So now we have extremists muslims growing ever more angry, ever more hateful, and in part it is thanks to the pseudo-democratic-religious-money hungry war that this adminsitration and teh neocons with Israels lobby have waged on islam. Oil, religion, geo-politics. Religion and Ideology have trumped rationality, and common sense. Religion will inevitably bring about teh apocalypse in a self-realizing prophecy...while the rest of us have nothing to do but sit idly by while our freedoms erode and the world strangulates itself with hate and war.

or should we just sit idly by?

here's the article,
in rationality,
Left of Larry

Sobering Conclusions On Why Jihad Has Spread

By Karen DeYoung and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, September 27, 2006; Page A21

In announcing yesterday that he would release the key judgments of a controversial National Intelligence Estimate, President Bush said he agreed with the document's conclusion "that because of our successes against the leadership of al-Qaeda, the enemy is becoming more diffuse and independent."

But the estimate itself posits no such cause and effect. Instead, while it notes that counterterrorism efforts have seriously damaged and disrupted al-Qaeda's leadership, it describes the spreading "global jihadist movement" as fueled largely by forces that al-Qaeda exploits but is not actively directing. They include Iraq, corrupt and unjust governments in Muslim-majority countries, and "pervasive anti-U.S. sentiment among most Muslims."

The overall estimate is bleak, with minor notes of optimism. It depicts a movement that is likely to grow more quickly than the West's ability to counter it over the next five years, as the Iraq war continues to breed "deep resentment" throughout the Muslim world, shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and cultivating new supporters for their ideology.

In describing Iraq as "the 'cause celebre' for jihadists," the document judges that real and perceived insurgent successes there will "inspire more fighters to continue the struggle elsewhere," while losses would have the opposite effect. It predicts that the elimination of al-Qaeda leaders, particularly Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was killed after the estimate was completed in April, would probably leave that organization splintered into disparate groups that "for at least a time, pose a less serious threat to U.S. interests" than the current al-Qaeda structure.

On the relative bright side, the assessment notes the unpopularity with "the vast majority of Muslims" of the jihadists' brutal tactics and ultraconservative ideology. Democratic reforms and peaceful political alternatives in Muslim countries will also counter terrorist aims, it says.

But "the underlying factors fueling the spread of the movement outweigh its vulnerabilities and are likely to do so for the duration of the timeframe of this estimate," the report notes. An intelligence official who was not authorized to speak on the record said the time frame is until early 2011.

The key judgments released yesterday made up slightly more than three pages of a much longer document that includes supporting background information. The judgments were intact except for what the official called "a small amount, and I emphasize small, of sensitive text" that was removed "to protect sources or address sensitivities" of allied intelligence agencies, or to "protect tactical recommendations that could become a part of future policy actions."

"What you're seeing here is really the key judgments," the official said.

Descriptions of the unseen document in media reports last weekend quoted intelligence officials as saying it described a global terrorist threat that was worsening as a result of the Iraq war. The reports led to an explosion of reaction, with the Bush administration and leading congressional Republicans saying that the published portions did not reflect the document's balanced view of successes and remaining challenges. It was no accident, Bush charged, that selective and potentially damaging parts had been "leaked" on the eve of the midterm elections.

Democrats, sensing advantage, contended that the administration had withheld a negative assessment for political reasons and demanded its release. The clamor apparently led Bush, in a meeting yesterday with Director of National Intelligence John D. Negroponte, to authorize publication of the judgments.

Democratic claims of an administration coverup seemed less justified yesterday as it became apparent that the complete classified report had been made available to lawmakers within days of its completion in April.

Copies of the NIE were sent to the House and Senate intelligence, armed services and foreign affairs committees at the time, through normal electronic information channels available to all members, intelligence and congressional sources said. It arrived at the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence on April 26.

In the House, "there was a bit of a snafu with this particular document," said a spokesman for Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), the intelligence committee chairman. "We had a massive computer failure on our classified side." The first that the committee knew of its existence was late last week, when "it was requested specifically by a member. That was when it was found and scanned into our system."

Whether the document was ignored or disappeared into cyberspace, however, it seemed to have made little impact on Capitol Hill at the time. No one in either chamber, on either side of the aisle, requested a briefing or any further information on its conclusions until now, the sources said.

The intelligence community has had its own problems with the attention the document is now receiving. Several active and retired intelligence officials stressed that the judgments were nothing new and followed a series of similar assessments made since early 2003 about the impact of the Iraq war on global terrorism.

"This is very much mainstream stuff," said Paul R. Pillar, the CIA's national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005. "There are no surprises."

Several active and retired intelligence officials, who were not authorized to speak on behalf of the intelligence community, expressed resentment at the administration's decision to have Negroponte issue the first official reaction to the weekend reports. They said he should not have become involved in what quickly became a political battle.

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averyv's picture

so which thing in the story

so which thing in the story is the enemy? religion or federal control?

seems to me we should tell that jackass and his jackass war profiteers could go screw themselves with something metal and sandpapery and put washington in its place.

the church can exist. thats really not that big a deal. its reeal bad for a church and a state to start to merge. at some point, it becomes impossible to distinguish.

if one is destroyed, however, i am quite confident that the other will assume the roles of both.

"In depriving myself of the acorns... what have we learned? Nothing! Not one of us has learned!
"Which isn't my point, but very well could have been."
— Ashley Raymond, Olympia, 1989

AntiFaith's picture

Quote:averyv : so which

Quote:
averyv : so which thing in the story is the enemy? religion or federal control?

False dichtomy. Ignorance and irrationality is the problem. There fore religion and government is the problem as well as the people. It is sad.

Quote:
averyv : seems to me we should tell that jackass and his jackass war profiteers could go screw themselves with something metal and sandpapery and put washington in its place.

We? Many of "we" are narrowminded, irrational theists. Faith remember? Faith is blind and narrow minded.

Quote:
averyv: the church can exist.

I agree! Yes, mr averyv, so long as people believe in God the church will exist. I also support the freedom of/from religion. I also support free speach and open dialogue of the reasonabilty of theism and especially religion and its holy books. Smiling

Quote:
averyv : if one is destroyed, however, i am quite confident that the other will assume the roles of both.

Well, then I guess we need to see if the people would like Free Thought to counter such a thing. Free Thought can help against government as well as religion. If the people can think criticaly I think that would help very much. But unfortunately sweety, religion is afraid of things like logic, science...critical thinking. Thats because religion already has all of the answers that it wants people to uncritically belief. Yes, government is as bad as religion too. Does this make sense to you dear? Eye-wink

Also, if we ignore the lessons of yesterday, -our Founding Fathers did consider what they did not like about the theocracy of their day, well what you say could happen. You are so smart for recognizing this averyv! Good for you! Yay!

AntiFaith's picture

Quote:averyv : seems to me

Quote:
averyv : seems to me we should tell that jackass and his jackass war profiteers could go screw themselves with something metal and sandpapery and put washington in its place.

I think it would be irrational to not work with theists who are for separation of church and state, keeping science to the scientific method, and speaking out against fundies. as well as bad foreign policy...

Freeing humanity from the mind disorder ( theism ) is a separate thing in my opinion. Same with anti-religion. I would do both.

Smiling

averyv's picture

Quote:False dichtomy.

Quote:
False dichtomy. Ignorance and irrationality is the problem. There fore religion and government is the problem as well as the people. It is sad.

it is sad. it is very sad. i concede false dichotomy.

Quote:
Yes, mr averyv, so long as people believe in God the church will exist. I also support the freedom of/from religion. I also support free speach and open dialogue of the reasonabilty of theism and especially religion and its holy books.

i also support the freedom of/from religion, and think that is a good way of putting it. i support free speech, but mine gets no stipulations. free speech. freedom of expression.

Quote:
We? Many of "we" are narrowminded, irrational theists. Faith remember? Faith is blind and narrow minded.

darlin, you gotta hear me out here.

it is not fair to label those people's problem as 'theism'. they were thrown into a system. happened to include theism, but more accurately they were indoctrinated to their power structure and they act with it as a result.

many of 'we' are just plain dumb or not well enough informed to realize that 'choice' actually exists. 'theism' is neither the cause nor, inherently, the result of this. religiosity and blind obedience were the outcomes, but belief in god is totally ancillary to the obedience that was bred and battered into them.

to look to 'theism' as the issue is to fight a meaningless battle that will only result in a totally irrational fight. no one knows absolutely about the existence of god.

to look to education and personal discernment as the issue is to clearly define a path to a better tomorrow. political theory really needs some work in the public education realm. not that political theory would be a beneficial thing on any level for a government to disiminate to its people, but, i think it woulld make our time better.

Quote:
But unfortunately sweety, religion is afraid of things like logic, science...critical thinking. Thats because religion already has all of the answers that it wants people to uncritically belief. Yes, government is as bad as religion too. Does this make sense to you dear? Eye-wink

yeah baby, i hear ya. but you gotta believe me, that this fear is temporal rather than inherent. i am not afraid of logic or science as processes. i think they are good and necessary and should be used. my issue against them is twofold: first, in daily, personal life. this should be mostly inconsequential to the scope of this debate. second, as all powerful tools of the mass. the mass is really gullable, and its heads are power hungry jerkfaces. there should be no all powerful tools of the mass. im not even that big a fan of the mass.

private venture may include as much irrationality, faulty logic, and whatever else as the individuals funding the private venture will allow. i have my own business, buy my own food, and i make poems that have no meaning. i maintain scope. this is important. i have no delusions about being able to maintain rationality on any significant level, so i just do and see what happens. i havent died yet, so my method is thus far effective.

institution wants people to uncritically believe. religion is a part of it, but by no means the whole.

Quote:
You are so smart for recognizing this averyv! Good for you! Yay!

aww, shucks. yer juss sayin that...

"In depriving myself of the acorns... what have we learned? Nothing! Not one of us has learned!
"Which isn't my point, but very well could have been."
— Ashley Raymond, Olympia, 1989