Damn.  82 reads and not a single comment.

I think this needs to get to the front for a while.

Just for grins and giggles, guess who's in heaven...

Gary Leon Ridgway, serial killer known as the Green River Killer, responsible for 48 murders -- as far as we know.  It's all he confessed to, anyway.   He was a devoutly religious (Christian!) man who clearly believed in the divinity of Jesus Christ.

I actually don't mind a lack of comments. Most of them are from theists and the overwhelming majority of their responses are usually already dealt with within the post itself!

That said, thanks for your feeback. I have thought of making a "guess who's in heaven list" and yes, it would include some rather infamous fellows.... as long as you confess that you're a sinner, you gain access to 'heaven'... remember, "works matter not" works both ways...

It just goes to show how idiotic this all is, if you follow through what christians claim about their heaven and hell and actually think about who goes to heaven/hell.... 

I went directly to the last page, thinking there were that many comments.

Surprise! Each page has more information (and some cool pictures).

I suggest that everyone that comes to this blog post to be sure and read each of the four pages. 

I was actually waiting for razorphreak to chime in. I'll go ahead and answer for him.

"The bible tells us not to judge others. We don't know for sure that any serial killers 'really' believed in Jesus. Maybe they were lying. Maybe they were crazy. We don't know for sure that Jesus didn't appear bodily to Ghandi six nanoseconds before his death and convince him to believe. Blah, blah, blah, blah..."

No true scotsman to begin with, and the answer misses the whole point that the way god supposedly has it set up, All those people you listed might well be in hell... as things stand, if they were telling the truth, they are, unless god lied. Surely someone good is in hell, and if there is one, then the point is still made adequately. If there is one murderer in heaven, then my point is also adequately made.

I can't say as I'll complain about Sheri Lewis. She annoyed the hell out of me. Turn around is fair play.

Carrie Fisher isn't dead yet. How could she be in hell? Oh, I see. Some of this is predetermined. Well, those still alive theoretically still have a chance to escape their fake doom.
And out of personal nitpicking(yes, I must), it wasn't Obi-Wan who saved Leia. Ever, actually. Luke, Han, Bail, and a number of others under the right circumstances. Obi-Wan never even met her after Bail Organa took her to Alderaan. He kinda lost his head. And the rest of him. > >

Jack Nicholson in hell? Watch out satan. I think Jack will kick your ass and take your job. He knows the part, and noone can play it better.

My question is, what dispicable despots can you point to as going to heaven? I have a feeling that might be a bit more eye catching than who's going to hell.

If you remember Star Wars, you remember that she specifically asks Obi Wan to save her. That's the point. 

Martin Luther and John Calvin are two of the most dispicable people I can think of... they are both 'in heaven' according to the passages I cite above. 

What about Hitler? He was a theist but I'm not sure if he accepted Jesus..

Great list Todangst!

Well yeah, but Obi Wan rejoined the force before he could help her. Still, I have to let it go since it is right....

"from a certain point of view"

Good examples I think.

I'm not a theist. I'm an atheist showing just how barbaric this god would have to be.... you're taking this literally, when I am posting it sarcastically...

That's pretty much the reason I put her on the list! 

Wasn't Christ Jewish?

Yep. Also presumably a man. But also homousian with 'god', rendering all those points moot.

How do you feel abou the fact that, according to your bible, right after Anne Frank died in the camp from typhus or dysentery, that she went straight to hell?

She didn't

Again, how do you feel that, according to your bible, she went straight to hell?

Book of John:
"He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of theonly begotten Son of God."

Please don't respond again by simply dodging the question, as there's limited space here. 

I didn't dodge the question.

You're assuming I'm Christian. On top of that you're assuming I take the bible literally. You said "according to YOUR bible" .  I don't take the bible literally.  My interputation is living the life of Christ, (moral etc..)  not doing bad things than saying "I believe in Christ" than getting a free pass. 

Yes. You. Did.

The question is this:

Again, how do you feel that, according to your bible, she went straight to hell?

Book of John:
"He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of theonly begotten Son of God."

If you're not a christian, then the question doesn't apply to you. If this is the case, then please post elsewhere.

That's completley immaterial to this discussion.

Again, for the third time, this is the question:

"How do you feel that, according to your bible, she went straight to hell? "

This is what the bible says. I am not interested in hearing how you rationalize the problem away.  If you are a christian, and accept the bible, then either respond to the question without dodging it or stop wasting my time. I really am not interested in how you rationalize the problem away, your psychological defenses are your concern, not mine.

Could you explain what exactly you are mocking? What do you think is so ridiculous? Is it that those individuals, who you probably consider to be among the most noble (or at least harmless) people around, would deserve eternal punishment?

Hmmm. I like it as usual, todangst. But some of these people are not dead, which means the title is inaccurate. It may need future tense in it.

Charles Schultz was an atheist? Wasn't Peanuts created as a largely Christian-toned comic strip?

I have no idea,but I can't say I ever noticed a particularly chrsitian theme.

On the OP,excellent stuff. I'm just sad I never saw it before now.

 I love this page, its is so funny I laughed my ass off. First I really like how some of the people you listed are not even dead yet and a lot of them you claim are going to hell for just being Jewish. If you remember correctly the Jewish people are Gods chosen people so they must go to heaven. In addition only about 30% of the world is christian so that means about 70% of people are going to hell and how many of those people are actually saved, lets say 10%, if god has such a plan why does he plan for people to go to hell, what is the purpose. I know it says the gate to heaven is narrow but wow, is god losing the war to the devil? I have tried to be christian and it just makes me sad. 

This is why I advocate not even indulging the premises of such fictions. Once one gets into the Superman versus Mighty Mouse level of discourse, all that remains is a battle of interpretations of unmitigated flubber-dubber. Oh, but I suppose there could be something gained in probing how different kinds of Christ-punchers and Mo-munchers think, but who really wants to dirty their hands?

If you have the guts to post this and not take it down or edit it, I might begin to believe you're interested in truth.

Aside from Abraham Lincoln and George Washington and possibly some others I've missed. I would have to agree with the writer that these people are in hell or are in danger of being there after death.

It's funny how for some of the names, you provide quotes of "good" things they've said and all for the reason of generating indignation toward Jesus Christ, the Bible, and Christians. But we have to ask: is truth the truth or is it wishful thinking? I mean I would wish that some of the actors, actresses, song writers, etc listed were Christian, but if only for the fact I may like them in their respective professions, how does this affect truth in any way? It would make since if you were making the claim that 'because i like someone for some 'good' reason, they deserve to be in heaven when they die,' but that would be silly. Right?

For those of you who write things like 'this person is "good" or that is person is "good", or that person is "evil", isn't that the very thing that is debated between Christians and Atheists? Who has the exclusive rights to morality? You argue as if there exists an exhaustive list of good and evil deeds/conducts/attitude and everyone knows it, but only Christians or theists are rebelling against it.

The thing you ought to know atheists is that if atheism is true you wouldn't know right from wrong (there also wouldn't be intelligence). All there would exist would be opinions. There couldn't be moral absolutes that transcend human opinions. All this talk about this good person or that good person would be nothing but your opinion or a group of people's opinions. Rapists, child molesters, sadists would (should) have equal say. If some powerful warlord had the might to enforce his will on you, you would be his butt buddy if he chose it and what obligation would he have to treat you any different?

My point is, if anything you people write is to argue your point that Christians are blah, blah, blah, you're doing a poor job at it.

You might persuade people to side with your "opinion" base of apathy or compassion, but certainly not based on truth or sound reasoning.

At the very least, as a Christian, I can account for the things we experience in the world as humans. I can account for the moral and ethical component of our being, the science and inquiry we engage in, the logic and reasoning our minds are capable of exercising, but as atheist you shouldn't be able to. But the fact that you as an atheist cannot explain yourself logically/coherently ought to be proof enough that atheist is nonsense.

You'll say in sexual relations, anything goes, don't impose your views on us, but turn around and condemn rapist and child molesters and morally repudiate necrophiliacs

You'll say we're nothing but a mix of chemicals and matter controlled by the laws of physics and chemistry but kiss your wife, husband, mom, son, daughter, loved one as if there is something called "love"

You'll claim man is nothing but another product of a material universe, not any more important than a dog, horse, or snail, but turn around and honor a friend at his funeral or a child with down syndrome.

The point is you atheists are a walking contradiction, you can't bring into harmony what you do and your professed philosophical view.

Also, don't pretend to know what the Bible claims, when you read what you want to read and exclude or deny the rest of the text. Or find blatantly deluded people who claim to be Christians as the spokes-person for us. It doesn't make you right, only desperate and more condemnable as the time approaches.

Know that the logical result of atheism are rapists, murderers, criminals, and the like. These are not the exception.

Obviously this venue limits me to what I want to say. If any of you have the guts to debate me in public, email me and we'll see about arranging that. I'm in Charlotte, NC

If you ever come back I might think this of you. I'm not holding my breath however.

So gods' an asshole, and doesn't deserve our respect, let alone our worship. Thanks for backing up the intent of this topic.

Truth is clearly defined, and it does not mean what you theists tend to pretend it means. Truth, in the eyes of a theist, is actually wishful thinking in the eyes of anyone with a grounding in reality that doesn't depend on invisible friends that never do anything.

Actually, it's silly to believe in a heaven in the first place. Same thing with a hell. Both are broken and incomprehensible concepts that fly in the face of physics and everything we have ever observed as a species.

Theists are generally the only ones who claim there is absolute morality. We recognize the truth: Morality is subjective. There is no such thing as objective morality. It is a self defeating misuse of language. Like a square that is a circle. Or a green that is black.

Ridiculous, on multiple levels. I'd get into it, but you didn't. And I'm not sure you'll be back. So I'm not going to bother. I suspect we'd have to redress your entire education starting at the first grade to get you to understand how wrong you are on this count.

Bingo! The only difference between my morality and yours is that I recognize the source of my morality is myself. You pretend someone else came up with the idea and the rules, and you blindly follow under threat of eternal torture. Something I don't need to believe in order to follow my moralilty.  

This is really too easy. Why should these people have equal say? They prey on society, they don't cooperate with it. Society has no obligation to cooperate with individuals who prey upon it.

Look in the mirror much?

How very amusing for me it is that you got this so totally backwards.

Rofl. Maybe grade 1 was a bit ambitious. Do you have any scientific understanding at all? Physics? Evolution? Gravity? ANYTHING?

Rapists and child molesters violate the victims rights, given to the victim by society. Therefore society returns the favour and takes away the rights of the criminals.

Your god had nothing to do and nothing to say about it. Society developed this on its own.

And it's because of something called "neurons" that you can feel anything, let alone love.

Subjective. You care about the hundred odd people who died in the last few seconds? How did you honour them then? How are you honouring them now?

If you people ever pulled your heads out of your asses and actually attempted to understand the arguments at hand, religion would disappear overnight.

A mixture of a strawman and a no-true-scotsman.

Ridiculous.

I'm in Brockville Ontario. Pack your bags and bring it on.

[email protected]

That is irrelevant. Todangst's post is not an argument against God, but the morality of God. If God exists, then we don't like his morals.

Again, it doesn't. You completely missed the point.

Why is it silly? Do you think Anne Frank should be hell? Don't dodge the question.

That is one subtopic in debate. The main debate is, of course, the existence of God. Once that is resolved, everything else follows.

Nobody. That's absurd. Morality is a human concept, and, as such, you have just as much claim on it as I do.

As if? How?

Why?

No, you're wrong. All of reality is still objective and measurable, regardless of whether God exists, and human values, while subjective, wouldn't be any different.

Of course not. Morals are a human concept. How could it transcend humanity?

Because we have decided that it is the right thing to do. Look, you incessantly chime upon how human morals would be worthless if there is no God, but the problem is nothing more than a mental stigma; your argument has nothing to do with whether God exists, only whether you believe that God exists. If you believe that such absolutes exist, then you can satisfy the natural insecurity of not having a perfect worldview to rely on, a morality inherently superior to all others. It is, indeed, your position that must understand that emotions do not influence truth, not mine. It is true that if no transcendent morality exists, then I cannot dogmatically assert that some morality is inherently better than another. I don't think most non-theists would deny that. But, so what? How does that change anything? The only difference now is that humans must rely on themselves to decide what we should value instead of searching in the sky for a source of supernatural comfort. What makes my morality inherently better than a serial killer's? Nothing. So, why should I try to stop him? Because I want to. And, notice how surprising this is on another level. If God doesn't exist, then you'd still arguing for absolute morality; nothing would have changed, except that your morality would be the inferior morality, since it is not based on reason, but faith and fundamentalism.

The argument Todangst made on this page is actually similar to yours. Both presuppose the validity of their respective worldviews. However, your presuppositions comes from a bronze-age compilation of religious stories. Ours come from our own conscience.

Blah blah blah?

Would you care to defend your assertions?

Cool, false dichotomy and argument from ignorance. How unoriginal.

Why not? Everyone does that because they care about what they believe in. Don't tell us what we can or can't do you arrogant twit.   

Wow, more fallacies. Why am I not surprised? Please look up naturalistic fallacy as well as fallacy of compilation.

*sigh*

You have the supernatural worldview. Feeling the harmony?

Okay, now, please look up 'naked assertion' and 'True Scotsman fallacy.'

Oh, celebrating your victory over the evil puppy-torturers already?

Ha...ha...ha...

Welcome to Rational Responders.

Most already are, the rest are on their way, according to the passages I cite from the bible. Is the fact that some of them are still alive really a problem for you?

Your claim is not only not biblical, but in contradiction to the passages from the bible I cite in the essay.

Being "god's chosen' people is NOT given as a way to be saved. The bible is rather clear that only jews in the last generation, who turn to christ, will be saved.

This is why I made this post: to put a face on the people you think deserve to go to hell.

I think you're the one with a problem with the truth.

The actual point of the post (which you've obviously missed) is to put a face on the people that you so gleefully accept as deserving of eternal torture.

Everything else you write is just the typical blather I read from people with a high school level grasp of theology and philosophy. If you want to debate, quit pretending that I'm a coward if I don't drop everything and buy a ticket to North Carolina to debate a total stranger who's challenged me on the internet.

If you want a debate, start a debate, here. On the net. Where it's convenient.

Or is that precisely what you seek to avoid?

hey if you read your own scripture Christian belief is that we are all deserving of Hell, but only through the grace of Jesus Christ are we saved.  Yes there are people with a holier than though attitude, but that is not what the bible teaches.  Yes, if the people you listed were not Christians they are going to Hell.  It saddens me and I am sorry that I was not able to do better and help my fellow man kind, as all Christians should be.  We as Christians fail on a daily basis and honestly are no better than non-believers.  However, your argument would be what makes Christians better than non-believers, the answer would be that we do no think we are better for we are not better than any of our fellow man; however, it is in this realization that we put our trust in a greater being which is the only thing capable of saving us from Hell.  Not to mention President Barack Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize, yes it was not his fault, what does that tell you about all the awards you listed?

Very timely reply, thanks!

What a load of BS.

You don't believe in God? Well.. i'll one day pass by the Hell door you will enter when going to heaven. I'm sure you'll beg for Mercy at that time but it would be too late for you.  Don't read a whole lot of things the devil has written through people just to get some of you. May God have mercy on your soul. That goes to every one who hates Jesus Christ. Turn to him and just confess him as your Lord and savior and you'll be saved. If not, You'll burn in HELL. If you don't believe him, please don't convince others not to. I see all you people as your master.  (SATAN)

The good news is that, you have a second chance to be right with God. I love Jesus and i believe with all my heart that he's the son of God who came to die for you and i, that through him we will be saved.

Welcome to the forum.

I don't believe in hell or heaven.

Ooohh, scary.

Lies and threats? that the best you got?

You bumped an obselete thread all the way to the top just to tell us this? Not very quick on the uptake, are you?

Nooooo! Walt Disney is in Hell? Very disappointing.

 This page first post has just been fixed.