Hey Louis,

This is where you begin to make ad hominem fallacies and false dichotomy fallacies over and over again. You're so closed minded and emotionally driven you just can't accept the reality of what you just was not only false, but just the opposite.

Though I do agree with you on one issue. Many Chrisitans are into the warm fuzzies, aggreed. But these are called weak or inconsistent christians. They are baby christians stills sucking for milk if they are even Christians to begin with.

I also agree with you on the experience thing. But Louis, you're a hypocrite. For you too live your life in the formula of:

So yeah, you are a hypocrite. Both the weak Christians and you are absolutely flat out wrong. Experience does not cause one to know anything from speaking in babbling tongues to understanding the gluon which holds all matter together.

As far as philosophy, I find it very convenient (how conveneint louis) that most atheist down play philosophy. They say it doesn't apply or it's garbage. This is convenient for the fact that the areas of philosphy that speak to all subjects has utterly demonsted the failure of atheism to not know whether or not they have toes on their feet let alone the notion that fish live in a river.

The 4 tenets of philosophy that run through every single subject (Philosophy of Science, Philospohy of Mathematics, Philosophy of Cooking), are:

Since modern atheism has flipped the coin for empiricism and has chosen without notice the self refutation of logical positivism, Metaphysicals is out. Since it is impossible to know the probable ratio of error and accuracy of any given perspective of a piece of data. (e.g. 99% false 1% true or vice versa) on anything, then the probability on the object in which is being studied cannot be determined in the realm of "knowledge."

Since ethics is completely subjective and dependent on a soceity, have no universals, etc ethics is out of here.

Since beauty is all subjective then there is no a/solutely beauty.

We see this repeated in the cliche's of society.

Metaphysics/Ontology - Many realities, reality is subjective to the experience of the individual (Sarte).

Epistemology - all is relative (note , if this is the case, then the ratio of probability is also relative)

Ethics (To each their own)

Aesthetics (in the eye of the beholder).

It is also interesting to note that it is utterly impossible to conduct any scientific experiment study any subject without philosphy. Meaning, if the philospohy of every subject was  removed, by definition so would the subjects.

All areas of thought are dependent on philosophy since it is the means of reason, argument, and method.

Louis, you seem like a nice guy. A guy who works hard and for some reason you became an atheist despite the logical fallacies of that position. Maybe your father abused you or what have you or maybe you are just that kind of guy.

But when we get right down to it, you also practice the exact same "philosophy" of knowlegde as the weak inconsistent christians do in reference to tongue babbling.

This is a valid ad hominem against your case. And your hypocrisy is noted.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

No, really.... philosophy has proven atheists wrong...offered undeniable empirical evidence that a god exists... no, wait, it hasn't.

You see, sonny, that's the rub.
To bring the masturbatory fantasies of the philosopher into the REAL world has thus far been elusive.
That was, of course, my point that all the word weaving in the world won't PROVE anything at all, never has and I suspect it never will.
Materialism may not be ideal, but it is after all, all we really have.

And to you I would say in the words of the great 20th century philosopher, B. Bunny.... "What a marooooon!"

Louis,

Empiricism is in the category of philosophy. lol. You do understand this right? So if one uses a philosophical precept, they then can't discount the heart beat of empiricism's existence inside the body of philosophy.

Empiricism was refuted by Hume, Kant, Logical Postivists of the 30's, and countless others.

How convenient you just skip over the part of your hypocrisy. That's just what a hypocrite would do. You know, that's one reason why I'm not an atheist, there are so many hypocrites in these atheistic circles. Fakes, you know the type.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A friend of mine sent me this through e-mail :

Creativity is like looking for a black cat in a dark room that is not actually there. So you decide to leave the room, build one and paint it in neon colors so that you will always be able to see it.

Philosophy is about being in a dark room, looking for a cat that is not there and debating about the meaning of it.

Metaphysics is like being in a dark room with a black cat that is not there.

Theology and religion is like being in a dark room, looking for a black cat that is not there and proclaiming loudly "I HAVE FOUND IT !,"

So, Philosophy IS God????

I mean without the philosopher telling us what reality is, the whole of it would just go spinning off into mindless chaos?
Even the solid, material, empirically defined world is just a construct of the philosophical dialectic?

This is why I have little respect for word weaving. After a while, they forget they are just struggling to define and make sense of the world they find themselves in, and start taking credit for it.
 

Here's a hint for you sonny... claiming to define a thing doesn't mean you OWN a thing. Like the theist and morality, philosophy doesn't hold the patent on reality.

“God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?” 
― Friedrich Nietzsche

There, that settles it.

Lol. When philosophy meets science, philosophy becomes effectively useless, a waste of time.

Bless your little heart Jean.  You are living proof that atheists are more likely to be forgiving people.  Tho I'm sure you don't talk to people in every day life this way, or you wouldn't be here to praise the Lord's precious name.

I'm guessing that is Mr. Cyphr's real pic.- looks like he might of done a couple tours in Vietnam and could rip your arms out of the socket and beat you with them if he so desired.

But I'm also betting he's a big sweet teddy bear that wouldn't have to use much of his intellectual superiority to mentally squash you in any type of discussion.

I gotta luv ya tho Jean. You're a peach.

Philosophy falls pretty flat in the face of raw empirical evidence.  

Everybody is a philosophy. Empiricism cannot exist apart from philosophy since it is dependent on it. So if you defend empiricism though you don't qualifiy what kind of empiricism you prefer, you defend philosophy by definition.

God is dead lol. That meant the idea of God in the  60's. Louis, I did not know you an old hippie. That's old news.

But again, who knows what you mean by god. Louis, you're an emotional old hippie that has "grown up" without the ability to think. I wouldn't mind teaching you if you would like to learn.

Just like the empiricism that you adhere to has refuted itself, so does the notion that philosphy is garbage is a self refutation is you are claiming and using philosophical presuppositions to form your arguments and conclusion.

is it hypocrisy or stupidity? That's a good question.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Wait a minute, EVERYBODY is philosophy ? Empiricism can not exist without being dependent on it ? Empiricism has refuted itself ? Man, this reads like an that old George Orwell book 1984. The term "doublespeak" that Orwell refers to sure applies here.

The god is dead quote was by Nietzsche, long before the 60's. It was granted temporary fame because it appeared on the front cover of a magazine in the 60's. It also made an appearance in the film "Rosemary's Baby,".

Now, I know that you have claimed to refute "empiricism" numerous times. Yet, I still fail to see how you have done so. Nor do I see how the scientific method and empiricism, which is measured by rules of observation and always open to change as new information is revealed, can be called philosophy.

Jean belched;" Empiricism cannot exist apart from philosophy since it is dependent on it."

PRECISELY the point of my response.
The dull witted boy actually had the temerity to state that Empiricism, a.k.a "materialism" or as some of us like to call it, "reality"  depends on some intellectual, (with himself in that exalted role, of course) describing it. 

Sonny, most of us understand that reality exists independent of the need for some self congratulatory primate to describe it.
You apparently do not.

I'm surprised that you did not know that Nietzsche wasn't a child of the 60's. Perhaps the weight of all that 'thinking stuff up' crowded the information from your vastly superior brain, or perhaps you were just having a bout of textual diarrhea...?

Hypocrisy? Interesting concept from a child pretending to be an adult while yapping at the heels of his betters, with an actor's picture and a false name.

Hippy? I guess that was supposed to be an insult. I wore my hair long, smoked bales of Mexican skunk weed, and even burned my draft card on Herman park Hill on a glorious Houston summer day, as I remember it, mostly to persuade some young cutie to part her creamy thighs, but that's a story for a different time... the funny part was, less than a month later, I joined the Army and volunteered for combat duty... (yes, I WAS a dumb ass.) But sonny... calling me a hippy (inaccurate) or a Biker... (closer to the truth) simply doesn't make me mad... it just makes me chuckle at the naivete' of a kid who thinks that it's somehow insulting.

Oh yeah, and 'old'... yep, I've lived a few decades and I plan to live a couple more. But I can tell you junior... I've LIVED my life.

But you can cling to your fantasies if you wish, hell, I'd advise it, because your expressions of 'superiority' are in themselves a plea for help, a kind of pathetic whimper from a sad little boy who wants the grown ups to notice him, to take him seriously.

Don't worry kid...dream on, reality will bitch slap you soon enough.

ITT: jean gets schooled.

Question for you, did you ever graduate from highschool? I'm curious if you have a high school diploma or perhaps you went back and got a GED?

Empiricism is not AKA Materialism? What on earth. It has nothing to do with materialism what so ever.

REALITY is a philospohical term. lol. It's called metaphysics after the accusative case vs. the genitive case. So once again, you are trying to escape reality but you keep talking abou it . Thus my first question about your high school diploma since you appear confused and emotional.

Yes, I'm aware of Nietzche and have read most of his books. My point about the 60's is that's when it actually took off culturally and since you had trouble passing highschool, I need to illustrate this.

lol, you did respond to the notion of hypocricy but instead threw invalid ad hominems like a 7th grade playground.

I wish not to make you mad, I wish to make you happy. But your anger makes me happy.

No you have not lived your life. people who are old and die and come to know the Lord look back and have many regrets and have considered their lives a waste 99% of the time. While you do not know this, your life as well has been a huge waste.

When you figure out how to actually argue and articulate your view, let me know. Until  then, I will remain amused at your emotinoal reactions.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Hey Jean, it's creepy guy. I have a request for ya.

Please try to hit the submit button only once. We don't need to read the same post twice.

I know, sometimes lag will make you think the first click didn't work. But try giving it a minute before clicking submit a second time.

Thanks.

How odd, I usually think of all those years (25 round abouts) that I wasted believing in god.  Reading the Bible, going to Church, fearing Hell.  What an utter mindfuck.

You're a petty little bastard, aren't you Jean?

You are a pretty pathetic, sad, little man.  I wonder what made you that way.

The little fella is throwing a tantrum...

Sonny, if you ever DO graduate high school perhaps you'll come to understand that because a school of thought, as in philosophy, uses a term, doesn't mean it it owns it. Reality, Empiricism, Materialism make have a place in the philosophic pantheon, but philosophy doesn't have the patent on these concepts.

Maybe your mommy will take you to the library so you can read some real books?

Oh, and little boy, I'd say my life speaks for itself...tell us all sonny, what have YOU actually done in your life? Any real accomplishments, or is yapping at the heels of others the best you can do?

I have no respect for you at all...

LC >;-}>

ah, semantics.  the last bastion against cold, steely reality.  it's interesting when the mouth of the religious mind still tries to form meaningless words, even after having all its teeth knocked out by reality's fist.

logos got nothin' on cosmos.  never had, never will.

Who was it that once said (I am paraphrasing here) "Can anyone name one scientific discovery that was better explained by religion ?,". 

Watcher,

No, you never believed in God, this is a lie that you tell yourself. And you were never a Christian. You've always been a pagan. Those who leave Christianity were never OF Christianity (I John 2:19).

So you also will grow old, and face death. If God rescues you, you will realize how much of a waste your life has been, otherwise, you will be wasting away in ignorance

Louis, the majority of your post was the absence of thought and was merely ad hominems thrown around here and there. This is due to your emotional reactions to become an atheist, any sign of true Biblical Christianity causes you to have seizures and emotional break downs.

You also fail to understand definition and how categories are understood through the different divisions of various subjects. The very basic means of science is category, if you cannot do this, you cannot do science and you cannot know.

This is why God told adam to divide the animals in categories for the basis of understanding. Adam in this way was the first scientist.

So please tell me when empiricism ever means materialism. Do you know what empiricism is? lol. wow.

Anyway, while you are currently acting like a little girl in your emotional state towards reason, if I was near you I'd offer to buy you some beer and I'm sure we'd be friends.

Though I could be wrong, you're so emotionally drivien your atheism appears to be a possible hate crime waiting to happen.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

 "Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy are only ridiculous,".  David Hume,  The Treatise of Human Nature.

Yeah, you would know what I believed, wouldn't you Jean?

You're the big fucking expert on Watcher.

You know me better than I know me.

You're a fucking joke.

Too bad it isn't a funny one.

You mean that all of those years that I wasted on religion means that I never really was a Christian. Whew, that's GREAT news.  I NEVER was a Christian. 

Well, I know for sure that I am not one now and would not want to be. 

Jean why the hell do you always harp on this verse?  Really, what point do you think you are proving by telling us all over and over  that we are not "real atheists" and were never "real christians"? 

I mean John's few pages 1,2, and 3 in the bible are so pointless I can't believe they bothered to throw them in there.  And that verse in his "Warning against Antichrists" is just the typical christian brainwashing just like the whole Satan spreads the seed of doubt crap.

All he is really saying in effect is- Don't use your head and run away from this shit. Those guys were just assholes and who needs 'em anyway.

Tell me this- Can a "real atheist" ever become a christian? If so then why can't a "real christian" ever become an atheist?  Your so called "logic" fails here my boy.

I've called you everything from a whackadoo to a gaywad, but one thing I've never accused you of that i can remember is not knowing your bible.  Surely somewhere in all that useless biblical knowledge of yours there is something closer to logic than I John 2:19

Or maybe there isn't.

Hello Tuna Tony & Watcher,

I understand that you are pagans that elevate yourSELF over everything. I also understand that you believe the Bible is a joke and that the Bible is full of errors and mistakes and so fourth.

But what you think now is not relavent.

Logically speaking, the system you claimed is dictated by the standard your claim is based. Since the claims of Chrisitanity are found in Scripture Alone, then one must judge or evaluate according to the standard you once professed via that standard.

You use to profess that the Bible was true, and now  you don't. Thus, according to the entire standard of Christianity you once professed, that standard tells us according to Christanity, that you were a fake and never were a christian.

Remember, Paul did not write to any Christian, he only wrote to professing Christians. And once you leave, according to Christianity I John 2:19, you were never ever ever that which you professed. You never possessed your profession.

You were/are a liar, and a hypocrite, and as a result, you became an atheist.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Nope, I was taught lies and hypocrisy by the faith that I was brought up in. Once, I could no longer accept it, I had to walk away. 

Respectfully,

     Harleysportster 

Since the standard of evidence for a christian is circular reasoning, a major fallacy, the christian is in no position to speak of logic.

 Who can sleep with the sound of these damned bagpipes????

LC >;-}>