The Lie
So I was alittle pissed today with the way my freelancing meeting went, but that's another story...After the meeting, I had a talk with one of the people about none other than Jesus. I think anyone should have the freedom to believe what they want.....in reason of course...no killing at thevery leasing involved...hopefully....anyways...
They said that they were a christian...and in that slipt second...I said "me too"...Why should I have to even lie about my belief or lack there of to anybody? I wonder when would the First Amendment become a first offence? I dunno.... I realize that picking and choosing your fights are a skill in itself. So I just lied and agreed...I also realize if I had said anything "less than Christian," I would have been at least LOOKED at with the evil eye...
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I realize that you can't
I realize that you can't get in a religious discussion everywhere you go. For example, at work you might not want everyone knowing you are an atheist because there might be unpleasant consequences. Many "Christians" are not very tolerant of other views but expect everyone else to tolerate their views.
That being said, I think a better response to someone saying they are a Christian in a place where a prolonged religious conversation is inappropriate or undesired would be to say "That's nice", "Good for you", "uh huh" or some other noncommital answer. Some religious people will keep pressing and that is the point where I have a hard time not confronting them for better or for worse. If they are going to push the issue after you have indicated you don't want to discuss it they deserve whatever you dish out.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
I don't agree. I do not
I don't agree. I do not think that you should be ashamed or have to lie about anything. I really don't give a shit what people think about me and you shouldn't either. You can atually make a point while being polite about it. I would never say I was a christian if I wasn't for the simple fact that they will judge you as a christian from that point on.
I went to lunch with a couple of ladies that I work with yesterday and they asked me if I was going to pray before I ate. I said "For what? I am not praying to an invisible man." They were shocked and told me that I was evil and I said "Really? What have I ever done that was evil? I have better morals than 99% of the people I work with" They aggreed that I was right and I pointed out that if they were so called christians they wouldnt cuss, drink beer etc. They were Sunday Christians. I then pointed out some of the crap that the Bible had in it and they were shocked that I knew so much about the Bible. I knew more than they did, which is not a surprise. Most christians spew crap but have no clue whats in the book. They said they would pray for me and I thanked them and changed the topic.
If someone pushes their bullshit on me I am going to give it right back. They cant fire me for being an Atheist. Be proud, but be polite.
Bakrauf wrote: I don't
People that are gay don't tell every random person that they catch 'looking' at someone of the opposite sex that they don't swing that way. Even if they were at the gay pride march the day before. Pro-choice people don't annouce their views on abortion in the maternity ward of the hospital... even if they were just at a Planned Parenthood rally.
There's a time and place for everything. There's a difference between being proud and being provoking. Anyone can use Google or look at my myspace/facebook profile to find out I'm an atheist but I don't have the time to start a conversation with every Tom, Dick and Harry about the Jesus Mythist position.
I agree with Beyond Saving. At inappropriate moments you can always just avoid the topic with an 'uh huh' or even a 'it sure is hot out!' response. it's a much better way to pick your fights than lying. If the person is going to push, well then... they probably are someone you should discuss with.
Thanks for your comments... :)
Yeah, It's kind of weird being on the other side of the table...So I know it different in a way, making a stand in all...I think of the danger of it all, like losing friends, family, even threats or being fired even :/ I'm not much of a debater at all yeah....and you know what that's what I did, saying "yes" and "uh huh." I dunno...when I was a christian, I tried to mention Jesus every so often..because the preacher said so...I look back and think...wow I've come a long way, if you will. I can also remember if I heard anyone opposing jesus that I would feel unconfortable....because the preacher said you should, So I can see where they are coming from...but some others go further and act on that and say things like Pat Robertson says, protesting the ten commandments, gay "agenda", etc...So I keep it vague anyaways and smile nicely...I'm "in the closet" about my views too. But it really hit me yesterday though, that I had to keep it vague is all. There definitly is a time a place for that. But, in one senario, if it ever gets to that point where I'm "wrong" as a whole for being an atheist, and they are personally attacking me for that alone...even to make me feel bad...then I think I have choosen the right fight, if you will.
I can see your points but I
I can see your points but I think it really depends on the person. I guess I am a little more forward and people know that about me. I dont go out of my way to start a conflict but I will make my opinions know when asked. I will not be an ass about it and the first thing I say is "everyone has a right to belive what they want and I am not going to harrass you because you belive in Jesus and I expect the same"
So the moral is do what YOU feel is right..
But I cant wait till I get my RRS T-shirt I just ordered thats gonna be fun to wear around town!
One question: Isnt it the point of this whole RRS thing to get the word out and not fear what the Bible thumpers say? To be more open and to speak out?
Thomathy your right on the money! Very nice post!
Answering a question
Answering a question in any setting should be perfectly fine. If a person feels comfortable enough to bring up a topic or to ask a question, you should feel comfortable enough to discuss the topic or answer the question. I don't agree with this 'picking fights' strategy. People deserve open communication. Perhaps if the person clearly had an ulterior motive behind bringing up the topic or asking the question, I would be suspicious of answering forthrightly, but I would answer none-the-less.
I'm gay and Atheist and I don't get asked often about either my sexuality or my 'beliefs'. (Likely not the former because I am gay and likely not the latter because people don't talk about it often.) Neither do these topics often enter conversation (people 'religiously' avoid them). I don't go about telling people about them, but as it has happened that I have been asked about both and that both have come up in conversation, I've always responded and answered openly no matter the particular setting. It's been at work for both and school and other places, but I've never felt it to be a bad idea to be honest, except when I was younger. Perhaps I have had very different experiences than others, but I've never been negatively impacted by being open.
I think pride goes with confidence and neither is necessarily flamboyant or provocative and I think it's rather important to one's self worth to feel proud and confident enough to be open in all settings about all things. I don't think 'picking your battle' applies here. You're not attempting to convert someone or to make them see your point, you're entering into a dialogue, and it must be mutual, or you are answering a question and you should be honest. If you are worried first about offending other people and you aren't in danger of physical retaliation, then you should examine how comfortable you are with yourself. It can be very fulfilling to learn how to be confident and proud enough to say what you really think and feel and not to worry about what other people think and feel first. You are, after all, yourself and it is necessary that you feel the best you can about you. That being said, there can be consequences to being open in this way, but I find other people respect someone who is confident in themselves enough to be open when others may be offended. Perhaps even the person who is offended might have some respect for someone who is sincere.
However, I find it to be totally abhorrent for someone to be offended by my sexuality (even when it is within their rights) and I feel the same about my 'beliefs'. My essential philosophy with people who are offended (or who will be offended upon my disclosure of that which could offend), is 'fuck you' (though in more words and politely). I am not easily enraged, but when people think it's alright to be offended by me while I must take in stride their contrariness to my condition, I explode. It's really just too bad for those close-minded bigots. That society should function if everyone were offended merely by differences either innate or other is ridiculous and those people deserve nothing less than to be told how infuriatingly base and stupid they are (politely), as well they deserve to have that very thing they're offended by politely put in dialogue or in response to their question. Not to offend them (they're offended whether you discuss it or answer them honestly or not, they're just not offended by you yet), but to call them out on it. People find it difficult to defend their prejudices when they are confronted with just how absurd their prejudices are.
That is, rational people are and in my experience I've apparently come across only rational people. It may be distressingly different South of the border (I'm in Canada). Perhaps my advice here should only be taken up to the last paragraph in the US?
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Yeah
I guess because I am 'in the closet' about being an atheist, I guess I can't really outwardly show my pride without telling on myself just yet...but I will say this, I am getting to the point when I'm starting not to care so much what people say about me, especially negatively...even being shy in all...But notheless, I agree with you Thomathy, pride and confidence goes hand in hand...I am really gradually working on myself...and thanks; thats a great post What I do bring up is science from articles I've read to films I've seen. I get a kind of silence from them in conversation...(kind of like what happend to me after my meeting)...those who have talked me with a agenda to get me to accept a God in my life.... I personally wouldn't "convert" anyone to be a non-believer. I <3 the flying spaghetti monster
anyways...
I remember one TV preacher had a message and he was like "GET Offended" during his message....talking about the gay agenda to destroy the world or something to that nature, for a half hour on the word network...Anyway I was shocked first at the message itself and second, the people argeeing about how being gay is this evil, bad, awful, sinful "thing" that must be deal with...(to be politically correct, that is your own opinion)...Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve, etc...and all in the world that's "6,000 yrs old" according to what that museum says...riding dinosarus and everything.... I always stand corrected by the way, I just wonder if that museum does...But I'm sorry, but I was not about to just loose my friends over a sermon or anything like that...but I guess that another story though..off the topic in all ...I dunno
all in all, I'm working on it...
You know what though, I want a RRS shirt too Bakrauf