What many people miss about us is that we're not doing this out of hate. It's quite the opposite. If we hated theists, we would be doing a lot of things differently. Just look at Fred Phelps if you want to see how hate works.

No, RRS does not disrupt church services with hate speech. We do not invade anyone's privacy. We don't force our views on anyone. We don't advocate legislation discriminating against religion.

What we do is invite people to our site, and if they're willing to engage in real discussion or debate, we treat them with respect. We don't sugar coat anything, and this is shocking to many theists. They are often insulted when we just say, "You're wrong, and we know it," or "You're ignorant of the subject." If you think about it, though, we're telling them the truth.

The reason we fight so hard against theism is that we truly believe (and we've got LOTS of evidence) that theism harms not only individuals, but society as a whole. We want people to live happy, healthy lives, and we believe theism to be one of the greatest obstructions to that goal -- for everybody.

We are here, literally sacrificing our own income, our free time, and in some cases, our careers for this. We don't make any money off of this. In fact, only the continued support of the core members keeps this place running in the face of deficits left over after donations and ad revenue. We are literally spending our retirement accounts and savings accounts doing what we do.

We're harsh, but we do what we do because we want other people's lives to be better. Some may disagree with our approach, but if they spend any time on the site, they will have to admit we're devoted and genuinely concerned about our fellow man.

See Hambydammit, the thing is that  I really think this needs to be said at an arm-chair atheist (or skeptic) forum.

Are you a member of any? 

I post on christianforums and just recently someone had commented how linking to my RRS blog would make some people not take me seriously due to the biased nature of the site.

The comment took me a bit surprised.  My name is "Mr. Atheist" so clearly I am an atheist, why would it be such a surprise that I would have a blog on an atheist site? 

I think at the root of it is some venom towards the RRS and one of the things that I am trying to be active in is getting people to be more aware of the fact that hte RRS is a multi-approached organization with people of different personalities and different approaches to the same issues.

We do not go about such a significant change in the culture of the world by simply yelling at people, insulting people, stating facts, being nice, or by being logical and rational.  You need to take many approaches.

I hope that in the coming months the RRS will be seen for what it is: an immensly diverse community of people of great talents and different deliveries in different areas.

Another thing that tends to get lost is that the comments made by people are just simply words.  If words is as extreme as atheism gets...then there should be no question of the moral and ethical implications of a purely atheist world.

I am way too busy making the money I donate to RRS, and then donating my time here.  There are only so many hours in the day.

You have my permission to reprint my post on any atheist forums, though.

Oh.. Snap!

This was a bit I wrote awhile ago that kelly had reposted:

 Extremist Response Squad?

We prefer for people to attain the knowledge that Hamby has imparted on you only after they've come to know that there is good reason to trust us on issues of finances. Instead of using an issue like this to attain their respect and trust, this should only be a supporting argument.

Some people will ask for proof of financial records, and there is no good way to do that for us as of now. We could post tax statements and bank account info but doing so would tip people off to the banks we use, as well as personal info about us. We could black out our names and personal info, but then wouldn't a skeptic still question the legitimacy of our proof? Anyone can make up tax forms or financial records with blacked out personal data and post them.

At somepoint we might be a 501c3 and then it'll be easier to make such a claim with proof we are prepared to give to the community. There are outside parties like Hamby who joined this community after it was started, have spent personal time with us, and have a good understanding of the fact that we have no profit. And there are other members here with first hand knowledge and evidence that we are losing more than we're making, that we gave up better paying jobs for this, that we would willingly go broke for it, and return to the workforce after expending our savings account.

But really... if your propensity is to hate us, your bias is to not trust us... how likely are you to believe us when you find this out?

Yeah, but the money part is not the main point.

The money can go without being discussed.

What matters is that what people are saying about the RRS in the atheist movement is wrong, and that we need to do something about it . In order to further the goal of outreach.

I feel you Hamby.

I appreciate the permission I will take you up on it in the comming days. 

Wow, that takes balls.

I'm mostly talking about atheist forums, but you, my friend, are truly in the trenches. 

I think that we should do something as a group to make the other atheists and skeptics realize that what they hear we're doing is not true, and that what we are doing is true.

But your service is more useful where you are.

I bet you have the patience of an atheist Job. 

I'm not sure who that was addressed at, but if you're refering to me posting at christianforums...

Brian, Kelly, Rook and other are great at preaching to the choir.  There are lots of people out there writing to target atheists.  At the end of hte day though the moderate or middle-ground theists are the ones that are going to have their views altered if anyone so you have to try to go to them so share information.

christianforums isn't really the best place for that since anyone going there is going to be a fairly hard lined person but it's a start.

I don't know the best way to get to the person who lacks commitment to even care about their faith but professes faith and follows the rituals. 

We dont hate all theists. Christians have a saying, "Love the sinner not the sin". You could make an atheist equivalent "love the Christian but not the claim".

I dispise the claim that people make that human flesh can survive 3 days of death knowing what science knows about death and rigor mortis. But it does not mean that I am not capable of loving the people who believe this claim. It hurts me deeply that they cling to such and I want to help them free themselves from that claim.

I would hope, that they would also understand that in my honesty and bluntness, that I am not seeking to take away their autonomy , merely through my blasphemous honesty, that it will somehow be an intervention to put them on a path of thinking that is not dependant on being a puppet to ancient mythology.

It was adressed to you dude. Your the real deal/ a memetic engineer. 

How about you Brian37, you got time to take it to the armchair forums? 

It's a fair point.  RRS has always been open about its finances, and has never tried to appear to be anything but what it is -- a public service.  Pardon me if it appeared I was trying to use finances as a justification for trusting us.   I can see that it might look that way.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that money is not a reason to distrust us.

If we released complete financial records, the haters would write it off completely and say that the issue of finances was irrelevant.  The only time they would use finances against us is if we were making a huge profit.

Hamby,

For some reason I totally missed the point about money. I thought you were just making a point about us being willing to spend money to spread rationality.

Agreed on that point for sure.

I have a lengthy dialogue response coming to this piece soon.  Halfway done, but have a ton on my plate.  

2006: net income was about $6,000 (that didn't cover living expenses - was roughly 200 combined hours per week including a few people)

2007: net income is about $25,000.  (that didn't cover living expenses, 3 of us in this house all reliant on that to get by, 4 children total within household)

We will pay taxes on that money, on top of that.  When I say net income, I mean income offset against expenditures.  Tax is paid on top of that at the rate of "self employed" which is double tax in a few categories.  Still haven't completed this years return yet.

For perspective, I left a $60,000 a year job, and I was moving up fast... in order to do this.   I offset deficits in earnings with my past savings, I have a total of $40,000 less today than I did when I got back into full time activism, for a depletion of over 80% of the savings.

Brian I worry that you guys have got to be exhausted, when was your last vacation.

Vacations are visits to atheist conferences.  This year we'll go to two, we'll work and network the whole time.  We don't have time or money for vacations.  This is rewarding in itself, it's not a bad thing.  The last vacation was the AAI conference.  We filmed a movie that weekend, and worked 16-20 hour days 3 days in a row.   This year we hope to do more on the networking side of things at both conventions although the film crew that was supposed to have our movie complete by the AAI conference wants us to film more for the movie at the AAI conference.   

 We take short breaks.  Kelly and I like the Daily Show, Rook and his girl like the occasional video game.  Honestly though, we enjoy what we do.  We love it.  It's highly rewarding.

I feel you Brian,

My Dad (and fellow atheist) said to me when I was in Jr. High, you gotta do something you love for a living, because you'll spend most of your life at work.

I think thats one of the wises things I've ever heard, its why I'm persuing a career in science.

But I also have done about half of my scientific research on stress, and I bet as much as you love what you do your lymphocyte ratio has got to be comperatively low, stress hormones like cortisol have got to be going buck-wild in all of your bodies, and I suspect that your sleeping habits are not the best in the world. 

And when I say you, I mean Kelly and Rook as well.

Think about it, just every couple of months go do something that has nothing to do with the RRS.

Delegate the show to someone who has been committed for years and will baby sit it for a couple of days.

A rested mind is a sharp mind.  

Kelly and Rook have a propensity to be more like that than I am.  I am from the school of thought that we'll all be awake for 45 years.  You can sleep for 30 years if you want and you'll live to 75, or you can get them all done at once.  Kelly and I fully expect to be gone before 50... you've got less than 20 years.

No offense,

But I'm very interested in science, and I doubt your self-prescribed death sentence at >50 years.

Do you follow Aubry DeBray's work. He was interviewed on Point of Inquiry.

Medicine has drastically increased the human lifespan.

Even smoking, which Kelly does, only takes about a decade off your life and women today can expect to make it past 80. So even with the bad habit of smoking Kelly is still looking at making it past 70.

And what makes you so sure that you'll be dead by 50?

What bad habits could you possibly have?

I think anything short of a hard drug habit, and you'll make it past 60. Just because of how awesome science is.

What I'm talking about is your day to day energy and health.

You seem exhausted to me.

I think that being rested is part of doing what you do the best you can. 

What science?  We have no money for health coverage.  When we get cancer, we'll let it kill us.  At least if the finances are anything like they are today.  We do hope to be on some form of insurance you can actually rely on (see: Sicko) within 10 years.

LOL

Mindcore, just so you know, Brian and I have had pretty much this exact conversation at least twice before.  I wish you the best of luck, but I'm not putting my money on you.

You want to talk about irrational, the way America puts up with how the medical system is currently configured in the US...that is perhaps one of hte most irrational things going on in the US.  People refusing to stand up for their beliefs due to a fear of the government or some other BS.  Represenatives are going to get funded by major health companies and the only way the system will ever change is if people start standing up for their rights to have a government that focuses on all people rather than just the financial minority.

It angers me how much Americans seem to put up with on that front and how blindly they are willing to accept hte associations of health care to communism.

SiCKO hit the nail right on the head...the US has plenty of socialized programs...why not what is likely the most important one?

Silly.  Bugs me.  Will never even consider moving to the US because of it. 

I'm willing to postpone this discussion until the 2008 election, but I'm throwing my vote behind universal coverage. Just like Mr. Atheist will I'm sure.

Then when America starts taking care of its citizens, I will bring this up again.