Atheist/rationalists who smoke
Offline Smoking is linked to lung cancer and a host of cardiovascular and cerebrovascular disorders. Therefore, we can all agree that cigarette smoking is an irrational act? So why do atheists who champion reason and rationalism smoke? Isn't smoking cigarettes just as harmful as worshipping a fictional deity? Is it hypocrisy to point out the irrational claims of theists and then engage in an irrational act of lighting up and damaging your lungs? But then again, excesssively eating cheeseburgers and fries, porn addiction and watching mind numbing reality TV are are also irrational and can be damaging. And I love burgers, fries, masturbating to Jenna Jameson and watching the busty gals on Girls Next Door. I guess I too am an irrational rationalist? But what distinguishes me from theists is that I don't regard my actions as truth or dogma to be followed by others.
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I am aware of that, but I do my best to accomadate other people's objections to me smoking when it is hurting THEM. I always ask other people, other smokers too, if it is okay that I smoke, unless they are guests in my own home. What I meant by sanctimonious wankers is the kind of people that judge ME for smoking and hurting MYSELF, not them.
Anyway, I actually have such an obnuxious personality, that most people don't mind my smoking, if only I'd shut up once in a while
Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin
For the original topic the fact they are so addicting is why I stay away from them. Booze too. People I know snap if they don't have a smoke or can't drink that night.
Oh, and Kev, this wouldn't have anything to do with the plant topic and pointing out fallacies in an argument right? I mean unless you're that much of an idiot.
If so, thanks for taking advantage of someone with a learning disability, jerk-off.
I thought the sarcastic response to my posts was a bit asshattish, but the racism accusations agains Cpt_Pineapple was truly outrageous and uncalled for - he made no posts that even hinted at racism.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
as i make attempt number 3 to pull this back onto topic:
is it necessarily irrational to engage in a pleasureful activity just because there is some degree of risk? if it was, none of us would leave the house.
Ah, yes... I can appreciate that. The idea that people don't have the right to injure themselves or put themselves in risky situations seems like an unnecessary violation of freedom to me. If someone only hurts himself, that's entirely his business... if he didn't have a reason to do it, he wouldn't.
It would depend on the ammount of pleasure created added to the good done compared to the harm done.
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Thanks for the laugh of the day....seriously. You don't want to live in a city because you are afraid you will get shot. That is borderline insane logic.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda
The closest city is officially (about) the 30th most dangerous city in the US. I have literally no street smarts so I would never survive in an inner city.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Just wanted to chime in that clearly Canada must be different from the states, or at least Chicago, in this area.
There is nobody to regulate who gets on most public transportation. Well there is, but frankly, they don't give a shit. The Chicago Transit Authority is so low on money, they will take anyone willing to pay the fares.
I have gotten on the L train with open containers of alcohol before - and I'm underage. (Granted, one time my vodka was mixed into a can of diet coke, but I was also stumbling around the station completely stoned on pot and couldn't figure out how to use the card machine for several minutes, and all that garnered me were some strange looks from security over in their booth). Oftentimes, college students will ride into the city and back drunk, and nobody says anything to them coming or going. A few have even pissed in the corner on the train when they couldn't hold it.
After midnight, the train is pretty much full of sketchy characters. If you're a young woman, you do NOT want to be on there alone, which is why I always travel in groups at night. In the winter, when the temps hit the negatives, a frequent practice among homeless people is to get enough to afford a train card, and then ride the L around in a loop all night to stay warm.
I don't have as much experience with the buses, but I have taken them in the city at night (with either a friend or boyfriend), and we are often the only non-black people on the bus. Not that their race bothers us - we're usually just friendly and strike up conversation with people anyways. But the neighborhoods we go through are not great; once the bus we were riding on got egged as we were pulling away from one of the stops; another time, a drunk vomited in the middle of the aisle. As I am not even a regular rider, these experiences are probably indicative of what happens every day.
It doesn't deter me from taking public transportation in the city, as it's affordable and relatively convenient, and also because I make a conscious effort to avoid using the car - I bike most everywhere I have to go. But it can make riders uneasy, and can be unpleasant.
In contrast though, the Metra train that I take from my affluent hometown to get into the city passes through only affluent suburbs, and it has none of these problems. So clearly there is a difference between urban and suburban influence.
Suck it UP! GG! Lol...jk, I think that is three people that have demonstrated that the US bus system does have drunks, bums, and sometimes both, as well as other unsavory characters. When I was in Europe and rode their metro systems, I can attest that they were far better than ours in the US. Granted I have only used the bus, train, and metro system in multiple cities in Spain, France, Italy, Greece, and Monaco...but for the most part, they were quite nice.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda
Wow do I live on the different side of the Atlantic or a different planet.
I live in London UK and if you live near a tube (metro/underground train) station house prices shoot up, the area is usually far more expensive to live in than somewhere without a station.
I guess its mainly because public transport especially trains is so expensive that only the relatively well of can afford to use it.
So there you go want to improve public transport in the US increase the ticket prices by 500% + increase petrol costs by 300% (will match the rest of the world then and is the only genuine way to reduce car use) and there you go nice clean gangstar clear trains and busses
Heh...Matt your crazy man..I have lived in a few different cities..Its not like you think..Really. You dont have to join a gang upon arrival in the city.
Its real easy to just not talk to people. I have never had any problems..Well...I had guns drawn on me once..But I kinda asked for that one..
Hmm..The robberies to my house a few years ago were all in this same house that was kind of in the country...City isnt to bad really many..
Anyway. Smoking is something I struggle with. Im really good at quitting. I do it all the time! I know its not good for my health and its not good financially. I dont know. Sometimes I just want a smoke...I am currently a non-smoker. But really you never know when that will change..I cant say if its rational or not..It depends on if Im a smoker or not at the time of the discussion. I just gave reasons why I shouldnt but if I were currently smoking I Could go on and on with reasons why its good...I just wrote a whole paragraph explaining that I dont have an answer to this.....
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Errr, i don't think that is the case everywhere in the UK. There is a huge amount of subsidisation for buses etc, not trains though i'll give you that. Where I am, it's £2.00 and you can go wherever the fuck you want for the whole day, any route, any bus, whatever. I live in a relatively small town in the UK and only recently aquired a driving licence so used the bus all the time. Generally speaking, the only people actually on buses here are OAPs and kids who are too young to drive, not that threatening at all. Also, bus stops here are also in stupiud fucking places, for example the road near me that has two stops 100 metres away from each other and then not another one for over 2 miles. And the fact that my village is linked to a town 30 miles away but not the village next to it, i mean what the fuck is that about?
HOWEVER, the main bus station in town is a magnet for dodgy people, mainly drunks (the multi-packs of Super T's kinda give it away), and they are there largely because it is full of benches and places to sit down. There are ALWAYS 2 coppers patrolling the area because of said dodgy people. It has nothing to do with race or any other kind of prejudice when i say that, it is just how it is. Who so many attacks on the poor pineapple dude for simply stating how it is in their home town? Jump to conclusions much? Can i ask what city it is you live in Kevin?
First of all, smoking isn't as bad as many make it out to be, as Penn and Teller once fumbled trying to explain. They were ultimate wrong (for once), as smoking IS harmful, even second had smoke, but it effects many differently and often isn't THAT bad. Scare tactics are scare tactics. People get on a high horse and they appeal to the extremes. They do it with commersals and with school speakers all the time. You know that "Truth" commersal shit? Biggest load of crap I've ever seen. Nostankyou is even worse. Maybe.
Truth once had all these protestors lay down in front of some tabacoo company building to show how many people smoking kills during some period of time. They were protesting. Protesting what? People's right to do whatever they want to their own body, or the company's right to sell in a free market? And nostankyou uses mini-games online in ads where you actually attack and maim smokers to stop their smell.
My point is, people get carried away with shit way too easily, so don't so readily believe smoking is as pure evil as they claim it is.
Next, it's not nessessarily irrational if you enjoy it.
You could live much longer, sure, if you didn't smoke. But would you enjoy life as much? You'd live a lot longer if you stopped drinking alcohol, I'm sure. Pop even. Fast food. If you stayed in a glass case your entire life with armed guards protecting you. But what kinda life would that be? Not a rational one that's for sure.
You have to find the balance between safety and fun that suits YOU. Some people want to live longer on salads and hiking, others want to live fast and fun on dangerous sports and cheeseburgers. You CAN be irrational by going to either extreme in some way, I'm sure. But mostly it isn't a question of rationality, but a question of personal taste and preference.
So do what you want. There isn't anything nessessarily irrational about it.
Okay. Granted, we should also levy a fee on all public transit riders for the times when one of them is hurt in a crash, or when transit vehicles hurt a non-rider. Then again, we could just add an "injury per litre" tax for gas and diesel, which would cover private and public transit, as well as commercial transport, and which the transit companies would pass on to riders in the form of higher fees. That seems equal. Additionally, should transit companies be allowed to collect "lawsuit insurance" in the form of an additional fee (which will also be passed on to riders) to cover when a rider is hurt, or a transit vehicle causes an accident?
No, that's fine. I have no problem being taxed on things I do not require, but use as a convenience.
Sorry, did I ruin your "socially-consciouser-than-thou" bitchfest by not objecting? You seem a bit tetchy.
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maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.
I'm fine so long as cigarette smokers smoke outside and away from open windows or doors and that they don't come back in stinking of tobacco.
Not only am I allergic to tobacco smoke, but after being treated for cancer, exposure to it can be very painful for me. For some reason pot smoke doesn't do this to me.
My biggest pet peeve is sketchy thug-types who ask me for a smoke, then threaten to kill me because they "know" I've got smokes on me. I encounter these people all the time on the subway, even got someone arrested after they pulled out a knife, ignorant of the fact that I was standing next to a police officer.
Smoking, in and of itself, does not seem irrational to me, but it can be a damn arrogant habit. It took me half an hour to help a drunk into a cab, and then clean up their vomit on the kitchen floor (Two weeks ago) . It takes at least three hours of airing out a room before I can step into it without feeling like there's a clamp in my lungs.
Paul.
"'My dear,' Madame Delbene replied, 'the universe runs itself, and the eternal laws inherent in Nature suffice, without any first cause or prime mover, to produce all that is and all that we know; the perpetual movement of matter explains everything: why need we supply a motor to that which is ever in motion? The universe is an assemblage of unlike entities which act and react mutually and successively with and against each other; I discern no start, no finish, no fixed boundaries, this universe I see only as an incessant passing from one state into another, and within it only particular beings which forever change shape and form, but I acknowledge no universal cause behind and distinct from the universe and which gives it existence and which procures the modifications in the particular beings composing it... the absolute contrary holds... We need not fret if we find nothing to substitute for chimeras, and above all let us never accept as cause for what we do not comprehend something else we comprehend even less." - Marquis de Sade, Juliette, pg. 43.
Does anyone know about the research done that suggests nicotine addiction (similar to alcohol) can be a genetic addiction? That is, your genes determine how likely you are to smoke. Of course it's not 100%, as genetic traits never are, but I think genetics has something to do with it....
And also, we need to look at statements of what we should/should not do as open-ended statements. I should not smoke.......if I want to [insert benefit here].
Suppose a computer programmer who doesn't need high endurance and doesn't really care if he lives to be 90 smokes. Why should he care? Of course when he gets sick he'll have to pay a hospital or let himself die, but that's his choice.
I'm reminded of a quote from my favorite movie: "On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." So in the end, who gives a damn who smokes and who doesn't, so long as they can be avoided by those who choose to?
"We are the star things harvesting the star energy"
-Carl Sagan
I'd care to keep any of my loved ones from smokng.
My uncle actor model Steve Holland was the 'Winston Man'. I couldn't find any google pics. My extended family thought it no big deal. He was the late 50's 'Flash Gordon'.
Anyway I am nearly a chain smoker. I quite a few times for 6 month periods with nicotine gum. Thing is I can't concentrate without nicotine, as it fucking changed my brain somehow.
Fucking damn it ..... PLEASE never never smoke. Education about this sucks. Chemical addiction as this, is powerful ..... costly too ..... fucking shit .....
If you do get off cigs and nicotine gum etc, NEVER take another puff. It grabs you back nearly instantly, and you are back to square one ..... It's a sleeping avalanche in waiting , if ever introduced to you brain on a regular basis.
More counter drugs and research, and public education, is needed for this on going sinister epidemic. Many can't just limit to smoking a few cigs, cigars etc a day .....
Yeah I am gonna quit again for the last fucking time , soon ..... errrrr ....
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Well I guess buses are different to trains. I have to admit I rarely use a bus myself just don't need to tube network in London is so good (well it smells, overcrowded and occassionaly breaks down) but its get me there
"I'm gonna die and you're gonna die. The only difference is... you're going to die without ever having enjoyed a cigarette." - Bill Hicks In all honesty, smoking for me started as a placebo for stress relief. Now it's a habit and an addiction. Of course, when I started smoking, I was a Catholic, so...
Truly Jesus... I understand
I read somewhere that smoking suppresses phsychological disorders significantly.
This is truly excellent news.
All we need to do is get all the theists hooked on cigarettes, then they'll be sane for a while before they die of lung cancer.
This plan needs to be executed immediately.
Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.
Why Believe?
Which underage, just alcohol or everything else? Such weird laws here in the U.S. But just so this thread doesn't get any more derailed than it already is, here's a link to another thread that deals with age.
Human sexuality and age of consent
I've never understood why this topic is even remotely interesting, and it manages to come up every 6 months... without fail
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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Smoking--not irrational. It would be irrational if you convinced yourself that it is good for you. However, if a person continues to smoke because they feel that the enjoyment is worth the negative potential consequences, it's as rational as engaging in any activity. If something that carries a risk is inherently irrational, then doing anything at all is irrational.
Driving--also not irrational. I lived in Japan for three years quite happily without a car. I have lived in many different areas of the US and it is not possible or feasible to use public transportation in the vast majority of them. It is not efficient or available enough in most cases, particularly if you have children. At the same time, I try to limit my driving, particularly now that gas costs 4.50 a gallon. (Yeah, yeah--I know it is worse in other parts of the world. Doesn't change the fact that the price has dramatically increased here.) If I was single in NYC, I would not need a car. I'm not. I live in the suburbs and have three kids. A car is simply not an option--it's a necessity.
Being afraid of cities--irrational. It is nice to know that there is at least one person on earth more paranoid than Brian, though.
ETA: I am a proponent of public smoking bans, though, as I don't feel that non-smokers should be forced to breathe the air that I choose to pollute.
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