Abraham and Isaac Story

MattShizzle
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Abraham and Isaac Story

I was listening to the audio version of "The Audacity of Hope. " Barrack Obama brought up this story (though he didn't point out the idiocy or immorality of it. ) He did mention if something like this happened today - ie we saw a guy tie his son to an altar on the roof of his apartment and raise the knife - we'd call the police or even try to wrestle the knife from him. And even if he put it down at the last minute, Children and Youth would take Isaac away and Abraham would be arrested for child abuse. It was interesting. I also imagine if he told the police God told him to do it and then had an angel stop him at the last minute he would likely be given a psych evaluation.

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MattShizzle
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That also makes me wonder -

That also makes me wonder - how many of the old "prophets" were actually psychotic and people just assumed God really was talking to them. Today if someone says this virtually nobody believes them to be "a prophet. " Nearly everyone correctly assumes they are schizophrenic or under the influence of some substance.

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shelley
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Matt - what makes you think

Matt - what makes you think this story actually happened?


MattShizzle
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I don't. But I do think the

I don't. But I do think the people who WERE considered prophets that did exist were probably psychotic or under the influence of something (ergot, for example. )

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Nordmann
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One important aspect to

One important aspect to understanding the content of these ancient writings is all too frequently overlooked (and intentionally so by so-called biblical "scholars" ). A lot of it was written by men who were simultaneously reinforcing religious tenets and behaving as apologists for their political leaders, in a society where the distinction between political and religious leadership was anything but distinct. In fact it hardly existed at all.

 

If one treats the Jewish scriptures as an admittedly ham-fisted summary of the history of that group then it does not take a genius to see that they, at that time, were a particularly barbaric people even by the standards of the day. They pursued a military policy of genocidal proportions against their neighbours, who they were convinced held genocidal intentions against them. They used this belief (that others had it in for them) to justify their own behaviour, and topped the whole justification thing off with invented directives from their imaginary god to behave just so.

 

There is no way that such barbarism existed solely in what today would be called that society's "foreign affairs" policies. It must have permeated civil life too, and the bible is littered with incidents of casual callousness which support this view. The guys doing the writing were therefore no more or less psychotic than the rest of the society they were addressing, and played a huge political role in keeping the tribes "on the message" - that message being to treat life as dirt cheap, especially your enemy's and even your own kindred if push came to shove. God was used to reinforce this directive, just as the context was then used to "flesh out" the character of god and demonstrate that, despite his own psychotic tendencies, he was their psycho.

 

Events eventually conspired to disabuse Jews of the efficacy of such a simplistic and murderous deity. Periods of defeat in which they were not massacred but dispersed saw the evolution of scripture writing now designed to account for this apparent inability of their magic psycho to play his promised bit. The god character began to alternate between his old psychotic manifestation (but now simply promising to come back and kick ass later) and a more philosophical creature, his new improved philosophy no doubt being informed by the Jews' exposure to religions elsewhere.

 

The christian metamorphosis was really just another step in that evolution of a fantasy, this time drawing heavily from Mithridatic sources and other schools of philosophy permeating the Levant through Rome's dominion. By the time that particular sect had begun justifying its tenets the Isaac story had already become something of an embarrassment, illustrating as it did a god who played sillybuggers with mortals just to test them and a level of naivety on the part of mortals that was chillingly portrayed. Abraham - unlike in muslim theology - got left with his patriarchal role, but the "unfortunate incident" was reduced to a simple (if callous) "test of faith" story. Whereas the Jewish injunction was that everyone should do as Abraham did should the authorities demand it, the christian attitude was just that it was "a test", and let's all be grateful that god doesn't run those tests in quite that way any more.

 

Obama's observation that god induced Abraham to engage in questionable morality in order to prove himself faithful is correct, and it's good to hear a politician say it. But there are many people in the world who think still that the same test applies and from the same deity - and that morality doesn't come into it since if it is the will of Jehovah/God/Allah then it's moral, period.

 

What Obama should do (but won't, for fear of offending fundamentalists) is go one step further, and not just comment on how advanced we have come socially from the time this barbaric Iron Age society wrote their stories, but state emphatically WHY modern morality beats the godly one hands down.

I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy