I'm new here, need some advice/info
My name is Mike. I'm from the capital city area of PA.
There is something that I've been thinking about lately. It is a confliction that I have with my own personal lack of belief in a god. I completely believe that there is no god. And I want to gain a more humanist perspective on things. The problem that I have is that I can not convince myself that there are no such things as ghosts. I am a sucker for this type of thing. I've had a few personal experiences and I can't figure out a way to make myself believe that they were either coincidence or something that I made up without realizing it. I have barely even scraped the surface of athiest reading materials, but I have read the God Delusion and Blind Watchmaker and portions of the Selfish Gene. Some of it is over my head, especially when it delves deeply into the science aspect.
My point is that I am afraid of ghosts. Things that I deep down don't believe can be physically possible, they both intrigue and frighten me. I really like the way of thinking that there is NO paranormal aspect in our lives, but I just can't shake the idea that there might be something like a spirit or something out there. This flies in the face of my belief that there is no heaven or hell.
It makes me feel like an idiot. Help!
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I wouldn't worry about it that much. Some people are afraid of spiders, even though spiders clearly present no harm to them. Equally irrational. Well, with the possible exception that spiders are actually real. But being afraid of the unknown is hardly new territory. Don't beat yourself up over it.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
I agree with Will. If you know deep down that they're not real, it's just a phobia. Phobias are nothing special. Just roll with it and do your best to let your intellect get the upper hand whenever it can.
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Ghosts are not to be feared, ghosts do not exis'; I've seen them ( after too much wine) and they are not real, so don't worry.
Now flying is real and worth being afraid of but not me. I'm not afraid to fly because I've never got on a plane sober in my life; and I'm not going to start anytime soon.
There's enough reality to be afraid of so why waste your well developed paranoia on imaginary boogymen?
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VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
I had an encounter with a ghost when I was about 10.
My grandmother came into my bedroom and woke me up. She said, "I'm just checking on you. Go back to sleep." Not surprising; she said stuff like this when she was visiting.
Next morning, I asked Mom and Dad why Grandma didn't stay the night. They asked, "What do you mean?" and I told them about her waking me up. "She wasn't here last night," Dad said. "You must've been dreaming.
An hour or so later, Dad got a call. His mom had died the night before.
Now, this was creepy to me. But, as I talked about it with Dad years later, he said, "It's not that surprising, Son. Your grandma hadn't been doing well." (She died of cancer.) "We'd been talking about her, and how she might not get a chance to see you kids again, in the days leading up to it, so it's no wonder you dreamed about her."
Now, up until that point, I was convinced I was awake, and Grandma had visited me. But it wasn't real.
Dad tells me I used to dream about all kinds of things. Once I was convinced bigfoot was after me, and I still have dreams where he can reach me on my invisible flying carpet. And don't let me get started on the whole Snap, Crackle, and Pop fiasco; they know what you are doing. They're worse than Santa Claws. They watch through the windows.
These are all vivid dreams.
The worst, though, was when I turned the corner in a new house, and saw our dog Freeway. He'd been dead for over a year. But he always sat a certain way, and there he was, out of the corner of my eye, sitting exactly that way; but when I turned, it was the shadow of a curtain. But I swear it was him. Just for an instant.
Our hopes and desires and fears all turn on us. It's not the supernatural; it's our own minds.
Me, the way I cope with it is, I really get into it. I love stories about UFOs, and ghosts, and so on. I visit the Bigfoot reasearch organisation website. I attend UFO conventions. It's fucking great. Not because I believe it, but because I don't. There is this side of humanity that demands something different, and all of this caters to that demand.
I can't tell you how to not be afraid of ghosts, except to remind you that in all the years of history, nobody's ever been harmed by a ghost. So the chances of one getting to you is pretty damned small. Meanwhile, enjoy your non-belief in ghosts, the same one that makes your heart race once in a while. Let yourself be scared, while at the same time recognizing there's nothing rational in the fear.
It's okay. Really.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Two big suggestions: Read The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan, and visit James Randi's webpage at http://www.randi.org/. Randi is one of the world's leading skeptics, and if you learn how he thinks, it will help you to see through a lot of bullshit.
About ghosts. Two things to google: Confirmation bias, and hypnagogic hallucinations. Confirmation bias is when we subconsciously count the hits while ignoring the misses. We expect to see something, and so we see it.
Hypnagogic hallucinations are when you are in-between sleeping and waking states and your mind is able to see and hear things that are not actually happening.
I actually saw a ghost once. No kidding. It was in university, I was lying in bed for an afternoon nap, and I was awake. Suddenly I saw a figure sitting in a rocking chair in the middle of my room, rocking back and forth, and laughing. It was strange because although she was laughing, she made no noise, like a silent movie. A few seconds later, the figure disappeared.
Spooky eh? Wanna know how I know this was a hypnagogic hallucination? Well, the person I saw was actually a friend of mine, who was (and is still) alive and well. She was conjured up by my imagination, just like when you see people in dreams, but in this case, my eyes happened to be open at the time.
If you really want to get over your fear of ghosts, learn everything you can about them from the skeptical point of view. Go to Randi's site, look up ghosts, and I'm sure you'll find some stuff. But most importantly, learn the psychological side of it. Learn how the brain works, and how it is prone to illusions and common errors and, yes, even outright hallucinations.
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There's something Dan Dennett mentions in Breaking the Spell which scientists call Hyperactive Agent Detection (another word beginning with D) or HADD. Basically humans and other animals are genetically programmed to detect agents (i.e. other beings with intentions). I've noticed it in my cats; there is a foam ball which sometimes gets kicked around the house, which they both run away scared from. They also keep well away from the vacuum cleaner because they consider it to be a dangerous monster. If you hear a rustling in the bushes you always automatically look round, even experiencing a little fear, even when you later discover it was just the wind. Often when walking home from the pub I'll see the same shadow of a lamp post and feel a little bit of fear because it looks like a hoodie who might well try to rob me. Being able to detect agents is an important survival ability, because it allows us to predict what a predator might do, rather than just seeing it as an object behaving randomly. The reason this ability is described as hyperactive is because it misfires and we begin to see things which are completely mindless algorithms as intentioned agents, or the work of intentional agents. It is a very real instinct, and instincts are not easily persuaded by reason.
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I wouldn't worry about ghosts as there are real things to fear. When I was 18, I worked at a cemetery as a groundskeeper or if you'd like a gravedigger. In all the time I worked there the scariest thing I every saw was the funeral directors, talk about creepy. We even had to dig up old graves to relocate people after 50 or 60 years. Never were ghosts present, just old bones. Part of our job was to lower the casket into the grave and then fill it all in, such fun that was. No ghosts were ever seen wandering the cemetery by any of us. Plenty were seen by the drunk college students who showed up on weekends and around Halloween.
My grandmother told me when I was little when I used to be afraid of such things as monsters under the bed and ghosts wandering in her old house it's the live ones you need to fear.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Hello Mikesuds!
Let me tell you something. In the rate as people dies every night in the streets of an average city, you'd have to walk through dozens of ghosts who died by a violent death, just on your way to a shop. Does that stop you from shopping?
I have some experiences of my own, but they're primarily non-visual, so there's not much of scary stories to tell.
Anyway, it's interesting that sober people sees less ghosts than drunk or high people. Stay sober and in good mood and the chance of seeing a ghost should be minimal.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
People who want to see ghosts will see them, not that they are real, but their mind is so convinced that they exist that they mistake a brain misfire and mix it with shadows and immagry stuck in their mind. Much like looking for shapes in the clouds.
Now just like any con, there are people and places that sell themselves as having ghosts and the proprietors of these places will con you whatever way they can because you are gullible into believing that ghosts exist.
One of the biggest cons purpitrated on the public is the "Amityville Horror" myth that an entire house was possessed by the devil. That myth started as a result of a REAL mass murder commited in that house. I am sure future owners knew the history of that house and because of the creapy real crime, some probibly saw what they wanted to see but again, only becuase of societal conditioning that the supernatural exists, combined with a brain delusion that causes that prediliction.
Ghosts do not exist. What does exist is the REAL electrochemical activity in the brain that can cause powerfull self delusions based on the gullibility of the person buying societial myths.
I too used to see "ghosts" and what "they" turned out to be is my own fears because of indoctrination and ignorance. Once I stared into the shadows and faced them, the ghosts never came back. The were never there in the first place, but my brain allowed me to see myth as fact, when it was a self delusion.
You can get over this by accepting the fact that your brain can and often does fill in the gaps subconciously without you conciously realizing it causing delusions that can seem real.
I have also had so called "outer body" experiances. That is just merely, once again, my brain in a very powerful dream state. I also had a couple cases where my dead grandmother and another time where my dead father stood at the end of my bed and talked to me.
AGAIN, merely powerfull dream states mixing with auditory and visual functions.
Even today, I have dreams, and I also leave my TV on and wake up realizing that the auditory input of the TV, mainly news can effect my dreams. I've woken out of dreams where I was in the middle of a war, because the story on the news was about a war. I've woken up out of dreams where I was having sex with a sexy woman, and woke up to see the "Girls Gone Wild" infomerical.
I know this is a bit long, but it is to insure you that you are not crazy and many here have had these "experiances" that seem real, but the only thing real about it is human nature and human psychology and the ability of the brain to fool itself subconciously. It is quite normal, but recognizing that it is merely a mind trick, will help you get over your fear.
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