Why should we support the Jews?  Three superstitions have sprung from the myth of Abraham.  xianity was second, islime was third.  What is the difference.  Of the three islime is the most disgusting.  The Jews are civilized.  islimeites are savages.

Why are you shocked that most people who read your posts accuse you of being anti-Semitic?

I haven't seen ONE thread topic you've created which didn't have something to do with Jews (in a negative sense).

Talk about something else, for once.

It's like most Atheist discussions already seemed to focus on Christianity way too much (at least that was more understandable, considering this is the religion most American Atheists have shoved down their throats...)  ...but now you just change the focus to the Jewish people. And that's all you talk about... incessantly.

What about the evils of other religions? Of other ethnic groups? Of other nations? Freshen things up a little bit, I mean... shit, you'd think you weren't even an Atheist...

In fact, many would think you were a Nazi.

All religion is bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All religious wars are definitely bullshit. Why not discuss the plethora of other relevant topics?

This is civilized? http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/GAZA-pics/index.html

From articles in Haaretz I gather about half of the real Jews in Israel have an active market in spells, curses and lifting same. Other than religion their customs are no different from the Arabs. You should not look at Hollywood. Rather look at real, observant Jews to see what Judaism is all about.

Strike the root! Judaism is the cause of all the religions which impose upon the West. As I said, it is economy of effort.

I note there is no requirement for individuals to give equal time.

I note there is no call for those who dump on Islam to also dump on Judaism.

I note there is no call for those who dump on Christianity to also dump on Judaism.

So tell me why I should not concentrate upon the most neglected of these evils?

For my information, please tell me what is negative about pointing out the idea that a person can be born a Jew is based upon a precept of a religion that atheists reject? Why it is not valuable to point out atheists cannot be Jews and free the confused of that terrible burden?

If those atheists would spend some of their time dumping on those genital mutilating savages there would be no point for me to give the root of all these evils the focus it has earned. I would have to look elsewhere for material not covered in these discussions. I spent a fair amount of time reading before posting. I identified a gaping hole in the discussion. I am endevouring to fill that hole.

As to the focus, I have only addressed Judaism and the people who follow Judaism, those of the Mosaic confession so to speak. I have been careful to point out atheists cannot be Jews. I have been careful to point out there is no such thing as a "jewish people" independent of the religion.

I cannot be focussing on the jewish people as there is no such thing. It is the invention of the political movement of Zionism. Jews are only followers of Judaism unless you claim Herzl received a special revelation from on high.

I agree most people are incapable of thinking. Most atheists are merely experimenting with something they think is fashionable or rebellious and will be back in the fold in a few years.

For decades there has been a rule in internet debate. The first one who says nazi has lost as he has exhausted all of his rational points.

Frankly I think the entire Nazi thing is way overdone http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/nazi-israel/index.html don't you?

I have a vast, untapped subject matter to illustrate the same points everyone else is making here. Why should I rehash all the old stuff when I can introduce new and powerful illustrative material?

Why do not you ask everyone else to make some posts dumping on Judaism?

It is laughable for an atheist to make a special pleading for Judaism or its adherents.

I guess you should sign the deed to your house over to the native americans, then.

...That, and it's horeshit anyway.

NATO signed the land over to the Jews in the wake of WWII, when the displaced populace had essentially nowhere else to go (Germany was wholly destroyed; many thought at the time that it could never be reconstructed), and it's fairly questionable that anyone had any 'land rights' over Palestine at all. Borders in Europe were a rather fickle matter at that particular point in time.

Why is it fake atheists always pretend to be so stupid when it comes to Israel?

Every educated person knows the US has treaties with the Indians ceding the land and the Israelis have no treaties with the Palestinians ceding land. Educated people also know the Indians go to court to demand enforcement of the treaties.

Or are you fake atheist Zionists really as uneducated as you post?

NATO did not exist until 1948. You probably meant to say the UN. The land was not the UN's to give. Declaring a right to sovereignty is entirely separate from actual ownership of the land. Zionists pretend they are too stupid to understand there is a difference between sovereignty and ownership. Or maybe they really are too stupid to understand the difference.

They could have given the Jews Bavaria. Not only poetic justice but would not impose suffering and death upon a people who had nothing to do with WWII.

While sovereignty was a complex issue with regard to the post-WWI remnants of the Ottoman Empire the issue of land ownership was quite simple and had been in use in the region for over a thousand years. The Palestinians owned it. Jews stole it. The owners want it back. There is nothing else anyone needs to know about the subject.

Answer me this. I have both Native American and settler ancestry with a majority being settler. Should I get to stay based on my Native American lineage or should I get exported as a land thief?

My point is that I wasn't alive for the injustice of the European land grab and I have no reason to be offended by it, just as I wouldn't expect Native Americans to start chucking grenades at me over it. Borders are a man made concept and only exist as long as someone is there to enforce them. Nobody has claim over any land apart from their personal dwelling and resources required for life.

Today we identify the treatment of the Indians as genocide in terms of the definitions of the international treaty against genocide. At least you are identifying the Jews as committing genocide.

I suggest you look up the treaty which discusses your legal status and see for yourself. They were not all the same. The very fact of the existence of a treaty precludes you from being considered a land thief.

The Jews have no treaties from the Palestinians ceding land ownership to them. Therefore you are trying to talk apples and oranges.

The facts are that the Palestinians have never ceased to press their claims to their private property. They have always been in the business of chucking grenades at the thieves and the equally criminal holders in due course of the stolen property.

And here you pretend (or maybe you are not pretending) to know the difference between ownership of the land and sovereignty over the land. Just look at all the whining when the folks in Gaza were firing rockets at their own land. The fact that the Jews had built a segregated Jews-only town on that land makes it their own damned fault for being thieves.

Not many people are aware that most of the property laws in Israel would be banned as unconstitutional in the US. The Jews in Israel have imposed everything short of separate water fountains. They have separate but equal schools. Neighborhood committees with the power to ban non-Jews from residence. And when a Rosa Parks arises they murder her.

What do you mean entitlement? Land is inherently nothing but dirt and rock. It is neither Palestinian nor Jewish (unless I missed the Bris) nor LDS for that matter.

There are only two issues here. Actual ownership of the land in accordance with the laws of the land at the time. That means the right to quiet possession, the right to use of the land and the right to sell the land. In this case the INDIVIDUAL Palestinians owned it. In this regard the tired zionist claim they did not own it has been been exposed as a lie so many times by Jewish Israelis it would be boring should anyone repeat it.

The second issue is sovereignty which is not ownership. The government of Israel may claim sovereignty over the land but it does not own the land. The land was stolen under to color of law by the claim the property was abandoned. The theft is entailed in the murder of anyone who tried to return to his land usually having to dig their own graves which were left unmarked.

This is nothing new. Ilan Pappe, Tom Segev, Benny Morris, and Avi Shlaim among other Jewish Israelis have exposed the Israeli propaganda about 1947-48 as a total pack of lies from beginning to end.

As the FACT of expelling the Palestinians and stealing their land was in writing and accepted Zionist policy from the early 1920s no rational person can thing WWII had anything to do with it unless they do not know the years of WWII -- which is far from unlikely these days. Terrorism by Jews against the Palestinians began in the 1920s. It continued through the 1930s when the Zionists collaborated with the Nazis to get German Jews into Palestine. Zionism was founded before Hitler was born. Jabotinsky formulated the policy of violence and expulsion and today's Likud Party declares itself to be the successor to his Revisionist movement.

As for real history, Jews were given sovereignty over only half of Palestine. They stepped up their terror campaigns before the ink was dry. They NEVER intended for the Palestinians to have any civil rights. If they did, the first election would have shitcanned all the zionist crap.

Sorry, but real history shows WWII is no more than propaganda as the reason for their crimes in Palestine. If you ever learn real history you will also learn that.

No one in his right mind who is beyond the idealism of childhood could ever imagine ever being safe on stolen land. No adult could possibly believe the Palestinians would move on and get over it.

Any rational adult would understand Palestine would forever be what it is, the most dangerous place in the world for a Jew to live.

I once observed there is an upside to Israel for the rest of the world. It attacts all the stupid Jews and the rest of the world gets the smart ones. I see nothing to contradict that observation.

It does not matter if it is understandable or not. It was not their's to give. That is the only issue of interest in the discussion. It was not their's to give.

So regardless of what the world was like in those days, the Palestinians have always reacted as do people who have been wronged. They kill. That is the way of the world.

And should you imagine it will be over soon, the Irish finally got back most of their island after four centuries. The Palestinians have yet to clock their first century.

As the land was taken under the pretext it was abandoned and as the terrorism and mass expulsions of the Palestinians is well documented by Israel's own records and as those who attempted to return, i.e. not abandon their land, were murdered, how does theft not fit the case?

Please be specific in your response.

I suggested you must not understand what occurred in the Indian Wars because of your statement that there were treaties which infers that it's OK. You say here that you understand they could be invalidated so I get that you are aware of the treachery that was involved. There have been court proceedings and lawsuits from the inception of nearly every treaty. In Florida where you live the issues are most related these days to gambling. Originally this was not the case. OTOH in the West there have been legal issues from the very beginning on everything from forced relocation, education in Native American culture, and countless violations by the US government.

A deceptive treaty obtained under duress, violence and genocide is held to be the legal foundation today and we are taught in our schools only one side of this, the winners.

My point here was to correct any errors you may have in understanding what occurred with Native Americans, I see you are aware of the treachery of the white man but choose to ignore it as it occurred long before you were born. 

 Have a good day.

I hate war. I really, really do.

But the Jewish religion aside, does anyone posting here actually have an in-depth, non-biased understanding of the conflict? The "Palestinians" are extremely devoted to "their rightful land". The Irsaelis live there now, it's their property. They're being bombed and threatened. They are constantly struggling to hold their own while the surrounding countries are constantly throwing rocks. No side is purely innocent, but I have to take the Israelis' for the most part.

No, I don't support the destruction of innocents, but I am not going to simply say that what Israel is doing is out of evil. They're being bombed. They constantly try to reason with the "Palestinians".

Seriously, though? You think Israel is bad? Jesus Christ we've been tearing Iraq apart, and at least the Israelis are defending themselves within reason, not just sticking their nose up someone's ass to locate imaginary missiles and "spread democracy".

I have given the only understanding anyone needs to have about the entire issue.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back.

Even David ben Gurion gave that as the explanation of the matter.

Why do you not consider murdering people to keep stolen property to be evil?

When the Mafia gets into a shootout with the FBI it can also claim it was only defending itself. In this case the Jews are the criminals for the land they stole and for the ethnic cleansing and for 60 years of state violence in support of those of the continuation of those crimes.

Did I say even one word to indicate that Native Americans today wanted the treaties not supported? No. You infer that which was not said. 

I did not mention even one single word in this thread regarding the Palestinians. My intent here was only in regard to the Native Americans and no more.

Again, I thank you for your generous assessment of my knowledge.

As none of my post to you had anything at all to do with Jews or Palestinians and only addressed your assessment of treaties with Native Americans none of your response regarding Israel was anything I care to discuss with you further. You have made it very clear in the other threads you believe you are correct in the views you hold regarding Israel and Jews in general. I see it as futile to discuss those subjects with you and so I did not do so. I understand your position on the treaties made between Native Americans and the US government in the 19th century which has been addressed.

What Anon doesn't seem to realize, or perhaps he just doesn't care, is that we suffer an unfair guilt by association just by having an anti-Semitic hate spewer in our midst claiming to be an atheist. We are persecuted and hated enough without being labeled as Nazi's. Even were he sucessful in pulling the wool over our eyes and getting us to deny the history of the holocaust, all it would do is create a nightmarish backlash that would push atheist civil progress back a half century or more.  Certainly makes me wonder if he is the fake atheist, deliberately trying to paint us in a bad light.

"Interesting"????

Seriously, you haven't heard the same 'arguments'(I use the word loosely) before?

The same accusations have been leveled at jewish people for over 111 years and are documented ad nauseum.

This person will be treated no differently than any other racist has been treated by the mods. We try to reason. We respond. We expect answers to questions devoid of dogmatic invective. If we receive no such courtesy then none shall be given in return.

This is not the first time you have voiced criticism of the way in which we try to handle the site. I don't expect it to be the last, but at least LOOK at what you are seemingly in defense of before bitching.

For the record, it is a timeout; not a ban.

It's a courtesy I'm attempting to extend to Muslims, thank you very much. I may not agree with the bases of religion, but I can at least expect the people associated with those religions to be respected.

Yeah, I'm not going to touch that one. Being enthusiastic about attacking Israel is a bit weak-headed in this political climate. It's also a one-way ticket to bad treatment. Israel has always overreacted, so strategically, attacking Israel without wiping it completely off the map in 10 seconds is a bad tactical move. But then, wiping Israel off the map in 10 seconds would be a very bad strategic move, as the rest of the world would then have an excuse to shut down the middle east without moral reservation.

Oh c'mon. The last time they overthrew the government, it was with the help of the CIA.

What am I supposed to say to that? Are you a child? Do you not understand what I'm saying?

Well, Gauche, your obsevation is preserved in this thread permanently and you've not been given a temporary ban.  I suspect your post has been read dozens of times now.  If someone objects to you considering A_Nony_Mouse's post interesting, at least you can be sure that you've been 'heard'.  Now, his posts are interesting, after a sense, but he is blatantly a racist, antisemitic, holocaust denier.  I'm certain what he's posted so far has been more than enough of his nonsense.  That he'll return here and continue to post his vitriol is evidence of just how much of he'll be tolerated.

Have you read the rest of his posts, particularly in the threads he has started?  This is not merely about his criticism.

If you read the rest of the material A_Nony_Mouse has written, you may get a better idea as to why the mods decided to give him a little break. I've personally tried to engage him on what I think you correctly identify as the interesting parts of his posts, and I get cryptic references to "Zionist animals" and botched holocaust statistics. It's not so much "racism" in my opinion as it is underhanded hate-mongering. There's also the issue of repeating unconfirmable statistics without references, etc.

Anyway, there's more to it than just this one thread.

Right. And you haven't been warned or anything, so that makes sense. But in the case of A_Nony_Mouse, there were very specific reasons that his arguments were hateful.

I don't think you should accuse my of being unreasonable. Had the person said something really attrocious I would think banning them was funny.  I'm not writing this guy's fucking biography, I don't know if he's racist or not. I'm telling you my perception of what I've seen on this website. For two years I've seen people spew venomous bile at bible thumpers and jesus freaks on this site, some of it I agree with, some of it I find amusing, and some of it I think is uncalled for. But I never see people labeled hatemongers for doing it and I don't think they should be.

You read the thread?  Did you happen to read any of these threads he's started in the last month?

Inventing the Jewish Race

Christian Relations with Jews

The invention of the Jewish people

It's just a time-out and the obsession he has with jews led to this thread derailment, and it was the reason for the timeout: Aren't they adorable?

Read about how wrong you are here: http://www.rationalresponders.com/matt_shizzle  You'll notice he posts in the thread "...I want to do anything I can to hurt this retard site. I want it destroyed like the last site that banned me was."  In fact it's partially because we felt that we were misrepresented to Christians that Matt was removed.

How ironic is that YOU posted in the thread, thereby indicating that you either have a bad memory or are attempting to use the time-out imparted on anony_mouse to attack the crediblity of the mods here in a manner that you know to be dishonest.  Do you have a bad memory?