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thatonedude
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Want a good laugh?

Here is some "hard hitting" coverage of the "new atheists" from our pals at Focus on the Family.

http://listen.family.org/daily/A000001792.cfm

All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.


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I can't listen to anything

I can't listen to anything without causing myself back and neck cramps from an uncomfortable leaning position at work. After a brief deliberation, I decided not to subject myself to physical pain in order to subject myself to mental pain. Not to mention enabling myself to not have to write down what the idiots say and respond to them.

Too bad they don't put it in print. I'd have some fun with that.

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thatonedude
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I subjected myself to it, in

I subjected myself to it, in the name of....well, boredom, I think.

The broadcast is a discussion between Dobson and a man named Albert Mohler, who has his own evangelical site. They spouted off quite a few fallacies. This led me to Albert's site, which was pretty vacuous, ranging from reviews of books to standard Christian blog grist. Here's a tidbit I snipped from a review of the book "Total Truth":

Albert 'Can't see a fallacy to save my ass' Mohler wrote:

In Total Truth, Nancy Pearcey offers a solid theological engagement with the critical intellectual issues of our times. While she presents a devastating critique of secular philosophies ranging from scientific materialism and Darwinism to rationalism, she also gives a constructive and biblical theological framework for establishing the structure of the Christian worldview. She lays this out in terms of three great themes: Creation, Fall, and Redemption. Every worldview, she explains, must provide a theory of how the world came to be, explain what has gone wrong with humanity, and point to some hope of redemption. By using such a theological grid, Pearcey suggests that "we can identify nonbiblical worldviews and then analyze where they go wrong." Furthermore, Pearcey explains, the first great affirmation of her worldview grid underlines the importance of asserting the truth of Christianity at the very point of creation. "If the grid of Creation, Fall, and Redemption provides a simple and effective tool for comparing and contrasting worldviews, it also explains why the biblical teaching of Creation is under such a relentless attack today. In any worldview, the concept of Creation is foundational: As the first principle, it shapes everything that follows. Critics of Christianity know that it stands or falls with its teaching on ultimate origins."

I wonder what worldviews which do not posit some fall from grace look like to these people. No wonder they seem impervious to logic.

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 Okay, what the hell? Those

 Okay, what the hell? Those guys are using the same buzzwords as Paisley, Truden and that other guy. Someone wrote a playbook for these weasels, and I want to know who.

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HisWillness wrote: Okay,

HisWillness wrote:

 Okay, what the hell? Those guys are using the same buzzwords as Paisley, Truden and that other guy. Someone wrote a playbook for these weasels, and I want to know who.

Can you give specific examples? I imagine that they are pretty much just rehashing each other's arguments, with a strong dose of Discovery Institute propoganda added to the mix.

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thatonedude wrote:Can you

thatonedude wrote:

Can you give specific examples?

Sure, "worldview" and "materialist" are used as weasel words. "Atheistic materialism" is one of Paisley's favourite phrases, and Truden's as well. "Worldview" as in "your worldview" is used by almost every theist who visits the site.

"Why do they hate us?" becoming "I have to remember that they really hate God" is funny, but the idea that an atheist, who doesn't believe in a god somehow hates a god doesn't strike them as contradictory. It's also a very common argument. "You just hate God!"

The "troubled childhood" argument is a fantastic ad hominem, followed by the classic appeal to emotion that is the "but what meaning can you have in your life unless we tell you what it is?" argument. That's a favourite of mine. I'll tell you what I find meaningful, thanks.

I mean, unless this guy is the source. If this is the guy with the playbook, I want a copy, because then at least I can quote this vapid moron. The thing about the atheist stance is that you don't need new ideas for arguments. Telling someone they're being ridiculous just takes a course in logic, not quoting Daniel Dennett.

Seriously, these guys are out of their tree.

 

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Radio dude wrote:They don't

Radio dude wrote:

They don't have any dream I think, of hoping that the person at the local shopping mall is going to turn into an atheist. What they want, are the college students. They want to really be effective with the thought class, and they want to make it untenable to believe in God.

Could not have said it better myself...

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<-- LOL Oh wow, this is

<-- LOL

 

Oh wow, this is pretty fruity. I'm listening to a little bit...

"The atheists have no starting point for their story...WE have a narrative! Where does an atheist start? In the beginning there was nothing? Something? SOMEHOW?"

I can't listen to this. It's....painful.

*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*

"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby


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HisWillness wrote: Okay,

HisWillness wrote:

 Okay, what the hell? Those guys are using the same buzzwords as Paisley, Truden and that other guy. Someone wrote a playbook for these weasels, and I want to know who.

COUGH Pandas COUGH

*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*

"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby


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Quote:They want to really be

Quote:

They want to really be effective with the thought class

That's not a problem at all. We already are. Overwhelmingly, I might add.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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HisWillness wrote:Sure,

HisWillness wrote:

Sure, "worldview" and "materialist" are used as weasel words. "Atheistic materialism" is one of Paisley's favourite phrases, and Truden's as well. "Worldview" as in "your worldview" is used by almost every theist who visits the site.

"Why do they hate us?" becoming "I have to remember that they really hate God" is funny, but the idea that an atheist, who doesn't believe in a god somehow hates a god doesn't strike them as contradictory. It's also a very common argument. "You just hate God!"

The "troubled childhood" argument is a fantastic ad hominem, followed by the classic appeal to emotion that is the "but what meaning can you have in your life unless we tell you what it is?" argument. That's a favourite of mine. I'll tell you what I find meaningful, thanks.

I mean, unless this guy is the source. If this is the guy with the playbook, I want a copy, because then at least I can quote this vapid moron. The thing about the atheist stance is that you don't need new ideas for arguments. Telling someone they're being ridiculous just takes a course in logic, not quoting Daniel Dennett.

Seriously, these guys are out of their tree.

 

Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah, those are pretty standard fare for that crew. About the only one that stands out in my mind as having a specific root is the bit about remembering that atheists really hate god. They probably get this from John 15:18.

Psychotic book of religious rantings wrote:

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.

And, yes, I played a game of "spot the logical fallacy" while I was listening.

 

All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.


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deludedgod wrote:Quote:They

deludedgod wrote:

Quote:

They want to really be effective with the thought class

That's not a problem at all. We already are. Overwhelmingly, I might add.

LOL Exactly what I thought when I heard it. Are they trying to make our case for us? They pretty much said "atheist don't really bother trying to convert dumb-asses, instead they target people who actually understand their arguments." Paraphrased obviously, but that's what I thought about it.

After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.

The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
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peppermint wrote:HisWillness

peppermint wrote:

HisWillness wrote:

 Okay, what the hell? Those guys are using the same buzzwords as Paisley, Truden and that other guy. Someone wrote a playbook for these weasels, and I want to know who.

COUGH Pandas COUGH

I'm sure you were just trying to be funny, but The Panda takes great offense to a comparison with these psychotic imbeciles. You must smoke 10 joints, eat a cake, and take a weeks vacation as penance for your sin. If you do not do this within a month, your soul will belong to the evil Moose, and you'll be stuck on a leaky Canoe for all eternity.

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thatonedude
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Vastet wrote:I'm sure you

Vastet wrote:

I'm sure you were just trying to be funny, but The Panda takes great offense to a comparison with these psychotic imbeciles. You must smoke 10 joints, eat a cake, and take a weeks vacation as penance for your sin. If you do not do this within a month, your soul will belong to the evil Moose, and you'll be stuck on a leaky Canoe for all eternity.

This reminds me of some show I happened to see on Mtv a few months ago. Two guys(I assume Jackass alumni) were dressed in one of those two person horse constumes. They proceeded to go to a farm and entice a large animal to mount them. The critter in question was either a moose or an elk. I want to say it was an elk, but it sounds like something the Evil Moose God would do. I think that the threat of being physically attacked anally would be more effective than threatening future hellfire.

All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.


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 Cheered me up alot i

 Cheered me up alot i needed somthing to make me laugh. what retards


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Has anyone looked at the

Has anyone looked at the book that he came on to promote.
Looking at the reviews it got me questioning whose side he's really on.
For example:

Amazon Reviewer wrote:
This short book (108 pages) is an informative guide to the challenge of the New Atheists and their challenge to Christian theism. Mohler targets the "four horsemen of the New Atheism" - Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennet, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens.

Chapter one briefly surveys the history of atheism and situates the new atheism within secularism.

Chapter two is the most helpful chapter of the book; it discusses New Atheism's assault on Theism by giving thumbnail sketches of the "four horsemen,"then pointing out eight common features of their assault on theism: (1) The New Atheism is marked by an unprecedented new boldness; (2) There is a clear and specific rejection of the Christian God of the Bible; (3) The New Atheists explicitly reject Jesus Christ; (4) The New Atheism is specifically grounded in scientific argument; (5) The New Atheism is new in its refusal to tolerate moderate and liberal forms of belief; (6) The New Atheism attacks toleration; (7) The New Atheists have begun to question the right of parents to inculcate belief in their own children; and (8 ) The New Atheists argue that religion itself must be eliminated to preserve human freedom.

Chapters three and four discuss the defense of theism poised against by the New Atheists by various theologians and philosophers, including Alistair McGrath, Alvin Plantiga, Tina Beattie, and John F. Haught. While agreeing with some points of their arguments (especially McGrath and Plantiga), Mohler's primary criticism is that these responses represent various levels of accomodation. In contrast, Mohler argues that "Evangelical Christians simply cannot surrender biblical authority, propositional revelation, and biblical theism in order to meet the various challenges presented to us in the twenty-first century" (102). There are only two alternatives, atheism or biblical, Christian theism.

Unfortunately, this book does not itself present an argument for biblical theism. The book doesn't deliver on its subtitle, "a Christian confronts the New Atheists," for there isn't much confrontation with, and no detailed argumentation against, the New Atheists. That was disappointing. Readers who want thoughtful engagement with the New Atheists will have go elsewhere. (I'd suggest Timothy Keller's The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism.)

That said, the second chapter of this book made it worth reading for me. I appreciated the review and summary of the various NA books.


So he introduces his readers into the arguments of New Atheism, critiques the common arguments against it and show that they fail, and then refuses to give any arguments of his own?
He just advises the church to "not shy away", but for people to keep reading into the debate and pray?

Easy with your shots guys!
I think this one is under cover!!


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just what the fuck is new

just what the fuck is new atheism?  is that like new negation or new indecisiveness?  how can the absence of something be new?

oh yeah, i'm back, after a long hiatus.  hi everybody.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Strafio wrote:Has anyone

Strafio wrote:

Has anyone looked at the book that he came on to promote.
Looking at the reviews it got me questioning whose side he's really on.
 

If you want some more confusion and amusement, go look at his website: http://www.albertmohler.com/

In one recent blog about the inevitability, he quotes a Time magazine article. And, funny enough, the quotes are from him. It's like he's wanting to point out to the readers that, hey, I was in Time magazine! He could have just restated his comments, but apprently being quoted in Time gives them more weight.

Al 'Douchebag' Mohler wrote:

More from TIME:

The implications for society are enormous. "We are watching the moral and social landscape of the nation be transformed before our eyes," Mohler said. "The institution of marriage is so central to human society and, at the same time, so central to Christian theology that it is almost impossible to calculate the magnitude of this challenge. This is a deeply troubling and sobering moment."

Then, you should check out his commentaries. It's full of gems, like:

Mohler wrote:

The tone of the book is strident, the content of the book is bracing, and the attitude of the book is condescending. Nevertheless, Dawkins insists that his strident attack upon the faith is limited to words. "I am not going to bomb anybody, behead them, stone them, burn them at the stake, crucify them, or fly planes into their skyscrapers, just because of a theological disagreement," he insists. He even allows that "we can retain a sentimental loyalty to the cultural and literary traditions" of organized religion, "and even participate in religious rituals such as marriages and funerals," he asserts. Nevertheless, all this must be done without buying into the supernatural beliefs that historically went along with those traditions." Further: "We can give up belief in God while not losing touch with a treasured heritage."All this raises more questions than Dawkins answers. If belief in God is so intellectually abhorrent, why would anyone want to retain the traditions associated with these beliefs? Why does Dawkins acknowledge that all this amounts to "a treasured heritage?" It must be because, in the end, even Richard Dawkins is not as much of an atheist as he believes himself to be. If Dawkins is so certain that theism is dead, why would he devote so much of his time and energy to opposing it? A man who is genuinely certain that Christianity is passing away would feel no need to write a 400-page book in order to urge its passing.

Ah, Dawkins is secretly a theist! Brilliant!

I've read through some of the commentaries. He seems to waffle, always mentioning how these "new atheists" are gifted writers and such. Perhaps he's just trying to throw a bone to the atheists he knows will also likely read his comments.

All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.


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iwbiek wrote:just what the

iwbiek wrote:

just what the fuck is new atheism?  is that like new negation or new indecisiveness?  how can the absence of something be new?

oh yeah, i'm back, after a long hiatus.  hi everybody.

It's the label the god-bot crowd has given to the uprising of anti-religious activity that they currently see as ascendent. They view the vanguard of the movement as consisting of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and Dennet.

All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.


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I just listened to the whole

I just listened to the whole thing and was quite entertained. It's funny how religious people simply refuse to believe that Atheists actually exist. We only call ourselves Atheists because we hate god, and of course my personal favorite of the day, because we want to be free of "sexual morality!" Yes, it's true, we only claim to be Atheists as an excuse for guilt free sex, you got us. Good Job!!!

 

Oh and on a side note... Where the hell do these people come up with figures like Atheists only making up 4% to 6% of the population? Are they only doing polls in the deep South or something?

Free your mind.


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Because most atheists call

Because most atheists call themselves Deists, agnostics, or something else on polls.  And the percentage that actually calls themself atheist is very, very small.


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I especially loved the

I especially loved the request for money at the end.

God is all powerful, all knowing, he just can't handle money. But he always needs money. He just can't bring himself to put money in the ministry's bank account.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen