Goodbye Mr. Klaat
Posted on: December 13, 2009 - 5:48pm
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Goodbye Mr. Klaat
I wanted to pass some sad news on to everyone.
For those of you who have been around for some time, and perhaps spent a few days or nights in the RRS Stickam chatroom, you may recall a member with the name Bumbklaat. Bumbklaat's real name was Jon Hardin and Jon took his own life a few days ago.
If you would like to share some memories please do so here in this thread or his obituary page . Thanks to Ashie Walker for providing the link to the Colorado Springs Gazette.
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*pours one out for her favorite drinking buddy*
He shall be missed
I posted this, not sure if it'll get through the approval process...
Jon was a good friend of mine. Of course I always referred to him as bumbklaat, his online moniker. I was close to him online and don't live nearby so I won't be able to attend the ceremony. He did come to my house and spent a week with me once. I feel obligated to set the record straight on an issue or two for anyone who would've not been aware of what he really thought or believed, especially in light of the comment that Reuben Amaro left.
Like me he had no belief in a god. He looked at religion as a blight on society. He despised the religious views that people hold, and found those people to be misled and frustratingly ignorant. Some of this is what led to his deep depression, his frustration with a largely religious society. Dare I say I can't recall many people who were more pissed at religion than him. If it were possible to live on after death he would be disgusted if his remembrance ceremony had any god references, and anyone who knew him as well as I did should share in that disgust. I hope his ceremony can embrace what he would've wanted... a bunch of people gathered to remember the good times with him.
Knowing him, I can be reasonably certain that he was secure with his death. It would've been what he wanted. We might refer to it as depression, he would've argued that you should be depressed too seeing the state of our planet. He would want us to be honest about his life, who he is, and what he wanted... which is why I speak up now.
I will miss him, but can understand his decision. I know my view is controversial to many, and that's exactly what would've stressed him out.
I hope this gives his friends and family just a little more perspective. Don't be sad for him, he wouldn't want you to be.
Brian Sapient
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I don't believe that was a good time and place to post that honestly.
...
I agree with you ~ especially a reference to a specific person's comment ~ it is an obituary, not an online forum.
Now as for a few memories of Jon
I remember one night we had a full house ~ all 12 vid spots taken up an many in-house. Bumb decided it would be a good idea to start Karaoke...online LOL! It was a riot ~ He piped in the music, and those of us who participated had to take our turn singing. Singing to Bohemian rhapsody, online, with lag...makes for some fun times.
OH and another memory...the conversations always ended up talking about ~ weiners and balls ~
Slowly building a blog at ~
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When is? When it's too late?
I sat idly by when two other atheists killed themselves because I would hear comments like yours and the one from Renee. This time I knew the man better than the other two heyzeuscreasetoe was one. I knew well enough to know that we should be happy for bumbklaat today, he would want us to be happy. He would want us to celebrate that he no longer has to live on this planet. He would want us to get insanely drunk. My story was dramatically toned down as compared to what it could say. I could've spoke of the contempt and pain that he unleashes on jas, that she wrote me about. I could've spoke about how his trip to my home was him drinking then sleeping, then repeating. That he drank himself to sleep each night, threw up in bed while sleeping. I could've mentioned that he often wanted to kill religious people., I didn't. I could've mentioned he hung himself, I didn't.
So when would've been a good time to make my post? Should I have been fake? I view death differently than most, and I hope the two of you do as well. I don't go to funerals because I don't know how to interact with people so that they're not offended. I act like me at a funeral, and someone gets their feelings hurt, even if I'm not trying. So I don't go anymore. Last year I missed my paternal grandfathers funeral (it was 30 minutes away), I didn't go because I was afraid I'd upset someone. So I apologize if someone is hurt by what I said, I'm dealing with it the best way I can. Which is with tempered honesty, and while on that note I think bumbklaat would tell both of you off for complaining about my choice of timing, which is exactly the point I was trying to make. Again forgive me if we can't handle honesty when someone dies, I still have a hard time understanding humans in that way, I am different.
At what point do we honor someones memory the way they would want us to, and why does it seem that funerals, obituaries, and remembrances have much more to do with our own selfish desires to have ourselves satisfied? Should we remember someone how we want to, or how they would want us to?
He didn't post much on the site, spending most of his time on stickam, but here was his RRS account: http://www.rationalresponders.com/user/bumbklaatt44/track
My favorite memories of Bumbklaat involve every impersonation, sound effect, and sound board thing he ever did. His Mr. Gawn impression and his indian impression were classic.
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You are right, you view death differently than most - I don't think I would be off-base to say that we all deal with death in different ways. Personally, I am not hurt by what you wrote, you knew him as well as you could from a distance and you were honest. Not many people can be that honest, especially when it comes to discussing someone that has died~ I do hold issue to how Jon's parents and family would view what you wrote ~ that is where I am a bit wound-up.
I can't help but wonder if Jon wrote down his wishes, so his family knew what he would want. And if they didn't know what he wanted ~ and since Jon isn't around to say anything different (and let's face it, he doesn't know any better right now)~ couldn't we conclude that however Jon's family sees fit to celebrate Jon's life, so be it? Do they really need someone pointing out "Reuben Amaro's" comment on their son's obituary as a catalyst for a rant?
And OMG yes, his Gawn impression was fantastic ~~ INdeeeeed
Slowly building a blog at ~
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Yes.
They do.
To not do so would be asking Sapient to feign indifference. Something which I assert he is incapable of doing. He posts to people because he cares unlike the majority of the rest of us who post out of some Freudian need for transference.
My opinion. There is no better time to force people to face reality than when mortality is right in front of us. Quite possibly the one and only reason I find funerals to be worthwhile. Some say "funerals are for the living". Well, a life is right there so talk about him and what his beliefs actually were instead of people to use his death to make themselves feel better about their own beliefs.
If anything, to make the funerary rituals about themselves does more dishonor to bumbklaat than if someone walked in and shit in the viewing room, in my oh-so-humble opinion.
Anybody remember the night we tricked him into thinking that he had turned christian when he got really drunk?
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uhhhhhhhhhh Huuuuuuhhhhhh
edit back...
I hope I didn't hurt or upset anyone by what I said, that is if they actually approve the comment. I hope my comments instead helped add to the memory of Jon. My thinking was that maybe we knew some things that his family didn't know, and they would want to know.
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Never knew the person (rarely do I ever go on stickcam, as hotel connections tend to be eh ok at best and when I am at home I spent it with my daughter), however funerals are supposed to be an outlet for grieving for the living, as well as a farewell and to rejoice the life of the departed, with that said, I know myself I have made it very clear to my family that I do not want any mention of god and me with the exception that I did not believe in god (then again I am having a party not a funeral, the funeral homes just creep me out). Besides that might as well talk about his life and his beliefs, the good memories and the bad ones.
On a side note heyzeuscrestoe left us? Didn't not know that.......damn it yet another I missed out on, IAMGAY I did not know had left us either, till like months afterwards.....sheesh I am kinda behind on things here.
*waits patiently for someone to recant the story behind bumbklaats name*
I struggle so much with the idea of someone taking their own life. Why would someone want to do it? Maybe it is the problem solver in me~that I see a way out of just about any mess. The queer thing about this struggle I have with understanding it, I totally support someones right to do it.
I also struggle with someone that gives pedicures...I don't mind people touching my feet but WHY do they want to touch my feet...it keeps me up at night.
I heard about the Jon's 'turning christian' joke, missed the actual event! lol
Slowly building a blog at ~
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Brian,
I appreciate your comments very much. I didn't know him very well, but I did hang with him in the chat room several times. Upon first hearing of his death a sadness came over me, but after reading your post I understand better. I don't know about anyone else, but your comments make me feel at peace with his death. I can certainly understand depression.
Heather
heike6
A single woman with no kids.
I used to get on stickcam alot last year and "bumbklaat" was a staple of the room.
I hope he found the peace he was looking for.
temporalwar: rRhead up a bulls ass, still bullshit, just headfirst!
My condolences
What is stickam?
With all due respect, why does that matter? When asking if something matters, one has to also ask, "Matters to whom?" It can't make any difference to the person who has died because that person no longer exists. In this case, it obviously matters to you; the importance of it is the passion you feel for it.
That is exactly what those things are necessarily about. Funerals and such are for the living. What else could they possibly be about? Some satisfy themselves by telling stupid, childish lies like "We'll see him in Heaven" or "He's in a better place now." Others, having a more honest bent, find such foolishness revolting and wish to satisfy themselves by speaking the truth.
Following my father's funeral, one of my aunts said something to me about him being in heaven. I didn't say anything -- I just gave her a look. There was a short but very uncomfortable silence. Conversations resumed and people continued sharing memories about my dad but nobody there said anything like that to me again.
If it's important to you to speak the truth, do it. You are not responsible for the feelings of others, especially when you are speaking tempered truth (to borrow your phrase) to the best of your ability.
I think it's preferable to try to remember someone accurately, simply because I value truth.
Reality is the graveyard of the gods.
Nobody tell him, it will be the end of all that is quiet and peaceful...
http://www.stickam.com/
What Would Kharn Do?
If that were true why write a will? We're just gonna do with your assets what we choose to. We're gonna give you a very religious ceremony even though you asked for a cremation. It doesn't matter to you, right?
It matters because we want to honor the persons existence the way that person would've wanted us to. Anything else is a dishonor or disrespectful.
Everything else you said I agree with.
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Had seen his name around, but never really knew him like others here. I am sure he will be missed and hope those who knew him well honor him the way he would have wanted. Having read about the fun you guys had with him, it makes me wish I had noticed him more than I did.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I disagree with those who would use a funeral as a debate setting or to face people with the truth.
HERE IS WHY
It is simple, smacking someone in the face causes resentment and will most likely make them retreat further into the delusion you are trying to smack them out of. Again, for me, it is not the good intent of wanting to wake people up, but HOW AND WHEN we go about doing it.
I can speak from personal experience. When I went to my grandfather's funeral my brother( a fundy) USED our grandfather's death as a platform to preach at ME, to find god. He didn't mention me by name in his eulogy, but said that our grandfather would want us to find god, and looked directly at me when he said that, playing it off as part of the eulogy. The fact was, my grandfather was NOT preachy, even though he was a believer, and would have despised what my brother had done.
I was offended that it was turned into an advertisement. My point is that it cuts both ways.
I think what WOULD be fair, is that when we are on our deathbeds, we can request what our wishes are when people are around us.
MY ISSUE IS TACTIC, not intent. My brother's tactic of using our grandfather to gain converts didn't work on me. So what would make us think that we could deconvert someone in such an emotional state by trying to use shock treatment? I think OUTSIDE these emotional times we can be blunt and blasphemous and when someone is not in a state of trauma they can deal with an argument.
I don't think we should take on the same tactics theists use when they see emotional weakness as an oportunity to victimize people. It is already bad enough that we lose loved ones. I don't think shocking people at a funeral will work anymore for us than Fred Phelps can shock people at funerals to promote homophobia.
The truth should be told and should not be sugar coated. But if using death to bring people to a god won't work on us, what would make us think that shocking someone at a funeral would make them think that our position is right? I think it would backfire for either side using it.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Brian, you might've misunderstood me. I would never use his death to try and persuade someone to disbelieve. I was speaking up for him because I know he would want me to, and he is incapable of doing so. It has nothing to do with wanting to deconvert someone.
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I guess I did misunderstand you. I'm sorry. I guess when I read that I was thinking about my brother and his abuse of that situation.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I didn't know him, but it is always unfortunate when someone decides to take their own life.
Any sentiment, when said with honesty, is appropriate. Shame on those who try to squash that. Let people feel what they're going to feel about this person's death, especially if they knew him and some of his innermost feelings about life and death.
I'd never even heard of him. But an idea has been stewing in my head for awhile, and now seems as good a time as any to bring it up:
A page for remembering lost colleagues. IAGAY's death was what gave me the idea. I think he'd have been happy to be remembered as having lived, and died, an atheist. When I pass, I'd like the same. Nothing ridiculously fancy or anything. Maybe a few notable quotes, avatar(s) the person used, and real name if available.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Well it's official, I guess the person who is approving the obituary guestbook comments echoed the sentiments of Ashie and chose not to post my comments. That's sad. They might as well just shit on his grave.
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This is what I'm going to tell my religious family members, probably in a letter or video to be viewed after my death:
You may memorialize me any way you prefer. After all, I no longer exist and it can no longer make any difference to me. However, if your preference is to remember me in such a way that I would have approved of it if I were there to do so, then [insert description of non-superstitious remembrance, including the playing of the song "Bravado" by Rush, preferably the live version from the Rush In Rio CD].
Reality is the graveyard of the gods.
Totally off topic but a lot of the time, I believe, it is neurological. Having gone through PPD when my son was born, I was convinced that stepping in front of a semi truck was the best idea in the world. I can only hope he felt some sort of peace before he killed himself. That emptiness, that hopelessness... it's a scary place to be.
First I would like to offer my humble regard concerning the passing of Mr. Hardin. I wasn't sure if I should post here since I didn't know him personally.
My instructions are simply that my remains be cremated as cheaply as possible. Per my instructions there will not be a family gathering or any official recognition of my passing. No formal obituary entry ( except in the form of public death notice which is a legal requirement where I live. ) will be provided to the local paper. The last detail is the most problematic. I requested that my long time girl friend take my ashes and flush them down the toilet. ( she is not cool with that. )
She can send em to me, I'll do it for you.
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Ha, thanks bro !
( she doesn't have the morbid sense of humor )
After we rub them all over our junk.
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Ahhhh, necrophilia in powder form. Kinky.
For some reason I'm re-imagining the strangely erotic scene in Tank Girl where Lori Petty is showering in dust. If you haven't seen it, check it out, and imagine the dust is your dead ashes. Hehehe. Now *that's* kinky.
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i understand what you meant, and what you believe you were trying to do.
but you must admit.. it would spark argument, and on an obit, its not the place.
you know as well as i do, someone would argue with you.. and if it was all posted, that would eventually get back to his family and would cause an even deeper upset.
The reason I haven't weighed in is I agree with both sides. My dad was an atheist, and his death was very traumatic for me. I was deeply, profoundly hurt by the things people said about him at the funeral. THEY WERE LYING ABOUT HIM before his corpse was in the ground. I wanted to mourn my dad. I didn't get to.
Their lies took away something from me permanently. I will never get to openly speak of my dad with any of them.
I'm his only child. Who else deserves closure and release more than me?
But then there's the practical side of it. Arguments at funerals don't make anybody happy on either side. Part of being the most oppressed minority in America is sucking it up when we're publicly oppressed, and when speaking up would make us into the villains. Blacks and gays and women have understood this and had to live with it for a long time. Sometimes, it's best to hold our tongues when we believe it is in the greater long-term good.
I don't know which is the case here. My gut tells me there should at least be one honest statement about him. I don't know when and where is the most appropriate.
I hate this.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Remind me one day to share the incident at a funeral where a gigantic wreath of flowers was pitched into the street.
OR
When an uncle hadn't even gotten the first shovel of dirt over the coffin before the will was read.
OR
When my cousin, age 9, played thumbwar with my step-grandmother's corpse during our time of 'sitting up with the dead'.
OR
The time I convinced someone (S.O.) that having sex less than an hour after her grandmother's service would put her in a better mood.
Perhaps these instances are at the very core of my nearly psychotic aversion to funerary rituals anyway.
Besides, if we really wanted people to have their wishes for their own funerals fulfilled then taxidermists would be allowed to turn dead relatives into upgradable, drink dispensing, party machines.
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i
and some asked the story behind his name "bumbklaatt"??
ts a Portuguese term thats pretty much the same as "mother fucker" in the english language
noted in a soulfly song
" you fake... you waste.. you bumbklaatt"
he loved soulfly.
Tom Lykis has a famous clip where he blasts believers for calling Dale Ernhardt's death a tragedy. Fans of Dale called in condemning his criticism.
Tom rightly pointed out that the family at that point, wouldn't be focused on what he said. Plus Tom wasn't at the funeral, saying those things. He was on a radio show.
Speaking ill of the dead is a stupid taboo. WHAT COUNTS isn't that both believers and atheists will express opinions of others that they find offensive. WHAT COUNTS is TIME PLACE AND CONTEXT.
Lets not kid ourselves. When Jerry Falwell died, many atheists felt a great sense of relief that an antagonist was no longer around to bully us. BUT, it cuts both ways and cuts to the core of what human empathy is.
Human empathy IS NOT a warm fuzzy magical utopia where only good things happen. Human empathy is the understanding that we are all capable of the same range of human emotion, good or bad.
If we go around blasting Falwell after his death then why should, if for example, Hitchens bites it from liver failure, should we think it abnormal for believers to speak ill of him when he dies?
It is not a case of "What is good for the goose" but "why should we expect anything different when we do it ourselves"
It is a mere acceptance of human behavior. Once we accept that, THEN we can move on to compassion. But compassion has to be predicated on introspection and not based on utopia self interest projectionism.
It is normal for family members to get angry at others who speak ill of their dead loved one, THEY DO IT AND WE DO IT. But we also speak ill of the dead, THEY DO IT, AND WE DO IT.
Compassion is not found in projectionism, but the acceptance that we are all human.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I know that, i was reffering to the story HE put behind the name (it involves a great many inappropriate actions, and would ruin the story if i was forced to describe them)
What Would Kharn Do?
I'm sorry for those of you who knew him. He sounds like a helluva guy.
I've already told my close friends/relatives that I don't want a funeral. Burn my body, scatter the ashes on the ocean and get rip-roarin' drunk. That's it.
Brian, I agree with you, buddy. I remember the show you're talking about. I heard it on... um... youtube, or something... a few days after it caused a stink.
From my point of view, death is another thing that happens to humans. Yeah, it's generally the last thing that happens to a particular human, but it's still an event in the life. Bumb isn't alive to hear all this shit surrounding his death, but Tiger Woods is having to live in a hole (granted, a 2 million dollar hole on a tropical island) to avoid the 24/7 speculation as to the exact nature of his penis and who it's been visiting.
I still don't know the answer to this situation. I don't think there is a correct answer. However, in Bumb's honor, I've told the milkdud story at least ten times since I heard the news. It seems appropriate.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I guess noone thinks much of my idea.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
When I die, I want kittens burned in effigy. And I want someone to give a description or account of the NFL without it's express written permission.
But, I think both my atheist friends and theist friends would have a blast at my "roast" which is what I would want. And to my atheist friends, please enforce a "no god talk, unless you want a debate". Any "god talk" they want to passively partisipate in in memorializing me will be done OUTSIDE the roast, which would be my main memorial.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Sapient,
Knowing Jon as well as I did, I must say...
...you have the right of it.
Dear Brian,
The world does not, in fact, revolve around the issue of atheism merely because it does to you. I ask you as a human being to not use a friend's death as a soap box for the furthering of your crusade.
I miss klaat. He was the heart and soul of rationalsquad. Atheism was only one small part of a very good man.
Love,
Kame
Kame,
You've never shown yourself to understand anything about me or the RRS, I wouldn't expect you to start now. I could ask you the same... don't use my friends death to take yet another jab at me as you do in every single interaction we've ever had.
Fuck you for pretending you give a shit about rationalsquad in this thread.
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coming from a guy that never met jon (yeah, i never did.. )
but from what jon knew of you... he couldnt stand your ass.
and you made drinking look worse than he did..
let me ask you something, sg, when was the last time you had a heart to heart talk with jon, rather than stab him in the fucking back?
through the monkey he already had riding on his back
you knew him?
you didn't know shit.
really