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Evidence either for or against a Creator?
Posted on: January 3, 2010 - 4:27pm
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Evidence either for or against a Creator?
I asked a question about this and would like to hear any responses to this. Thanks http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100103113906AA30QsI&r=w
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It still seems to me that you think that something can be true without any knowledge of it. When you make a discovery, you now know something you previously didn't. You may not understand it, but you at least know of that thing. To posit truth can apply to something completely unknown is so wrong it's hilarious.
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I hear you. But, I have knowledge of God. And an experience. Remember , I siad I have been given grace to believe by faith. Based on interaction and connection between the Spirit of God and my Spirit. As ALL people will experience the grace to believe in God. Thats my good news to everyone!
The parallel is uncanny. (Sorry, it was far too tempting)
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Thats funny on the surface. But, a creation doesn't require Santa. It requires a Creator.
I completely agree. But you need to show why the universe is a creation. I know you are trying to do it by arguing complexity. But riddle me this. When water transforms into ice, was the ice created by nature? Following this, most natural processes can be explained as transformations, not creations. The same applies things we make. Our 'creations' are really just transformations of things we find in nature. We are transforming our environment. The laws of physics do the same thing. They transform the environment too. I'd say this explanation of transformation has more going for it than the 'god did it' explanation.
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I don't dispute the reality of natural processes. And why does it have to be either or? I mean either an atheistic evolutionist or a bible thumping creationist? Remember that there is such a thing as a theistic evolutionist, and they are just as passionate about learning as the atheistic evolutionists.
How? We have different subjective opinions regarding what is or is not viewed by people as why it is.
I don't know. I accept science and cash, sorry, no credit.
As we've told you the burden of proof is yours. I make no claim on what the universe is, only that is exists. You wish to say it is a creation in support that god created it.
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Fair enough. We will have to agree to disagree. Each of us with our subjective opinions regarding the origin of complexities and the universe. Yours being it was all natural processes only. Mine being that it was a combination of natural processes and the hand of God the Creator .
lets cut the chit chatter lemme put it this way A creator of a universe would have to be more complex than our complex universe
right now he has to be intelligent but to be intelligent you have to have an environment
So my question is what is god's nature and what is god made off if he is supernatural
have you heard of compartmentalization and cognitive dissonance
fullarmor2, did you just recently learn the word "subjective", and now you're just itching to use it everywhere? You're throwing it around like it absolved all the problems with your baseless assertions.
Unlike many others here, I am not hampered by any false sense of having to be polite.
You, Sir, are a moron. You are wasting people's valuable time with your retarded inanities.
What the fuck is it you are discussing, really?
You have your toddler-pacifyer "faith" and your teddy bear "beliefs" and they comfort you.
We get it.
Now fuck off with your rude innuendo and your passive-aggressive sexual perversions.
You are not worthy to speak in the company of adults.
"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)
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But the watch analogy is faulty in and of itself. Watches didn't just come into being instantly and without precedent in the year 1400-and-whatever. There was a millennia-long lineage of inventions that had other uses, wheels, gears, screws, arrows, numbers, metalsmithing, etc. etc. that were then combined together to make a machine that could tell the time.
OMG THAT PROVES INTELLIGENT DESIGN! QUICK, DELETE THAT VIDEO!!!
Do you think God must be more complex than the Universe?
If you do, Then you have a problem with infinite regress.
If you don't, then you have no argument for God, and you are just believing in God because you like it.
Also note that children also readily believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus....
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Damn, you have a problem with reading comprehension. I never said all evolutionists are atheist. I said anyone who doesn't accept the truth of evolution is either ignorant or illogical. Evolution is very compatible with many religions, and lots of Christians outside the U.S. have no problem with it.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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It is very interesting that a child can create an alternative reality in their heads so as to quell their fears and I think the ability of kids to live in their imagination is so much more worthwhile than trying to prove things using empirical evidence. Science does not know where the universe came from and does not pretend to know. This is a concept you seem to be unfamiliar with - it's called honesty.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Evidence for a Creator? NONE
Evidence against a Creator? IMPOSSIBLE to prove
What the fuck are you talking about you made me so mad
first a child can believe anything because they dont know better,they are just like theist in that they knows nothing believes everything
"What I would call proof, subjectively , you will say it is not proof, " personal opinions has nothing to do with reality subjective is subjective and objective is objective get it
The 'God' that a child can 'know' has exactly the same claim to being a reality as the other imaginary friends they might also 'know' - it is real, but just as an idea in their own mind.
Anything that you 'know' purely from personal internal experience is just that - an idea in your mind.
You cannot justify claiming it has some reality beyond that until you can point to some external, independently testable evidence.
Otherwise you will have to acknowledge that thousands of US citizens have been molested by real aliens - after all, they are totally convinced that it happened, and how can we deny the 'reality' of an experience that anyone personally found totally convincing and 'real'?
This applies to any 'knowledge' gained purely by 'revelation' and held on 'faith'. It has zero warrant until externally justified.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Recent events in Haiti show yet again, that IF there is a 'Creator' God, he is evil.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
i agree with your post above this
people cant seem to realize nature is neutral there is no god period
the landslide ridden by a whooping Marquis de Sade may have swept poor fullamor2 away...
Couldn't help thinking the gentleness of argument suggested fullarmor2 might have been a lady.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
The bad things in the world make some sort of sense with no god involved. They are hurtful but as you say, they are neutral. When you think about it we actually give disasters anthropomorphic qualities. Maybe we can't help doing this.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Trying to fit such disasters into their belief system is a challenge for someone who believes in a basically benevolent God, but it ain't a problem at all for us: it is summed up in the memorable words, "Shit happens"...
(EDITED to fix quoting)
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
'Man'.... is the creator and the destroyer. The Alpha and the Omega (at least for the moment).