Let me start by first Stating my beliefs.
Offline I would like to start off by saying, I am of course an atheist, I have been one my whole life, I NEVER ONCE believed that there was a supernatural being that created or cares about interpersonal lives of human beings and keeps a check list of right and wrong doings. Now if you want to add in what was written by previous civilizations, we were on an evolutionary path, until an alien intervention, recorded by the first people to create writing and first recorded history as well as many other things we still use today.
I think that is where atheists fall short in debunking religious criteria. Why, if you going to use historical accounts to debunk Jesus and the non-existence of a supernatural all powerful being, don't you bring into account the intervention of the Anunnaki to the Sumerian civilization? They TELL us how the world was created, which is substantiated by scientific proof.
I just got done watching the debate between this websites organization and the Way of the Master, seen on, I am assuming, ABC sometime in the recent past, which is a direct result of how I came to this site. I noticed that NOTHING was brought up about the Sumerians. Why is this? I would think, if your going to debunk the bible, you HAVE to challenge religious people to where (other than god) this information originated. I mean, why for instance is god vengeful? Why is he many things that can be attributed to human characteristics? An all powerful being, would NOT have these attributes, BUT, an alien race, thought to be god or gods by primitive man, WOULD. They possibly have these attributes and may have passed them on to us. A being with power of time, space, immortality, evolved past the point of human morality. Furthermore, if creating us, why would he instill that into human beings. But. if we were genetically created from an evolving huminoid species on the planet by ET's, that would certainly explain why we have stories of a god that DOES have these characteristics and also why we ourselves have them as well. Do you think pre-humans were walking around concerned about killing and raping before the intervention of thinking man? Do you think lions or other animals on the planet, that do not have this capacity for morality, think they are doing wrong when they kill for food, or kill for territory, or kill for dominence? Of course they don't.
If we take what the Sumerians say as fact, which I DO, then it explains most everything in the process of our evolution and how thinking man came to be on this planet. Do you know why you don't bring this information up when debating? I will tell you why, religious people already think we are nuts, and the skeptics on both sides, will shun away from anything that is outside the norm of conversation. But to get to the truth, WE MUST start to put this information about previous cultures which state alien intervention into our discussions. I mean think about it, where did ancient peoples notions of beliefs in many gods come from? It came from Sumer, at least until we find historical proof of an earlier civilizations recording accounts of the same stories.
I also just listened to a radio broadcast of a debate ( if you want to call it that ) between Kelly and Matt Slick, I would have to say darling, as much as you tried, you got your ass kicked. You did not debate that well and I don't think after listening to it yourself, would disagree. Not once, and I haven't gotten done listening to the whole show, did you say anything about the apostes NOT writing the gospels, which they didn't. Noone who was alive or who knew Jesus, put one word in the New Testament. Yet you never said anything about this too him. WHY? I would think that would have been the first thing to say. I mean, I think thats pretty important that at least one generation past the time of Jesus, were the authors of his teachings. Especially knowing that humans cannot pass one story to another without changing it slightly. Also you didn't mention anything about how the bible has changed MANY times over 2000 years. Nor did you mention this when discussing this topic on ABC with Kirk and Ray. I believe in what you are doing and I support it, but how you come across, comes out in an argumentitive way, without using knowledge to back up what you are saying, or at least NOT ENOUGH knowledge. I mean simple question to ask a religious person, WHY WOULD A BEING OF ENORMOUS POWER care about one planet among an infinite amount of planets? Are humans the only intelligent existing life in the universe? If not, does that mean we will be sharing heaven/hell with other alien beings? Another simple question to ask, if they believe that this life is temporary, and heaven is everlasting bliss, why doesn't every religious person kill themselves so they can be in heaven with god?
I have asked very good questions and made some comments of my own, hopefully I can get some feed back from people on this site as I am new.
A refresher for people not in the know:
Old Testament: Stories that were written by Ancient Sumerians, Babylonians, Akkadians, at least 2000 years before the bible.
Adam
Noah's ark story
Creation
The bible says god created everything approx. 6 thousand years ago, SAME TIME THE SUMERIANS wrote down all of this. Coincidence?
New Testament: Stories written by people of a generation past when Jesus lived. Do you think these stories were not changed to make him divine? Did he exist as a man? Most likely. But he wasn't divine. He was a man, plain and simple. Only after the council of nicea was he depicted in the bible as the son of god. Btw, the stuff that was not accepted in the bible, were stories of alien intervention, thought to be to heretic to be kept in the bible.
Example: The Book of Enoch
Aiden
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Offline NEW DISCOVERIES CORROBORATE SITCHIN
Homo sapiens: The successful deciphering of a female Neanderthal genome was reported in the journal Science on February 13, 2009. The project, undertaken by scientists at the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig, Germany, aimed to verify when that failed species of humans and Homo sapiens (= Modern Man) branched off, and whether the two bad ever interbred. The New York Times pointed out that the new findings "document two important sets of genetic changes - those that occurred between 5.7 million years ago, when the human line split from the line leading to chimpanzees, and 300,000 years ago when Neanderthals and the ancestors of modern humans parted ways."
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Offline | "ENKI", "NIBIRU" DOMINATE "2012" SYMPOSIUM According to reports in the European press, "Enki" and "Nibiru" themes dominated a symposium held in Basel. Switzerland, on October 18, 2008, to discuss the ramifications of the "2012" prophecies. The gathering, attended by some 250 participants from across Europe, was in support of "Project Cheops", an initiative begun in 2001 in Poland to find the "Enki Connection" in Giza and Hawara in Egypt which – according to the speakers – "will enable Mankind to avert the looming 2012 catastrophies that will be caused by the return of Nibiru." "Project Cheops," according to these reports, is supported by scientists from the universities of Wroczlaw (Breslau) in Poland and Cairo in Egypt. The locations for the search for the "Enki Connection" have been indicated by Lucyna Lobos, a Polish seer, who in a keynote address at the symposium asserted that the god Enki had left at those sites instructions how to create an Earth Shield to protect our planet from the catastrophic effects of the looming proximity of the returning planet Nibiru, alias Planet X. She warned that efforts must be accelerated to find this data and create the shield before 2012. The Enki/Nibiru themes are, of course, borrowed from Zecharia Sitchin's books, which are published in Poland by Wydawnictwo Prokop of Warsaw. The University of Wroclaw, a major academic center in Poland, has invited Zecharia to a Sitchin Studies Day in 2009. | |
| Extrasolar Planets EXCITING DISCOVERY IN THE SOUTHERN FISH Two astronomical discoveries concerning extrasolar planets made news on November 14, 2008. While both reaffirm what Zecharia Sitchin had suggested, more than 30 years ago, in The 12th Planet, one of the discoveries has amazing aspects that corroborate - and even explain - details of ancient 'myths'. 'Extrasolar planets' is the term used to call planets not in our Solar System, orbiting stars other than our Sun. Since the beginning of this century, more than 300 extrasolar planets have been found; but they have never been actually seen: Their existence has been surmised from gravitational tugs or other effects on their parent stars. The exciting news now is that two teams of NASA astronomers have managed to actually see and photograph such extrsolar planets, thereby confirming the existence of other solar systems in the universe. The pictures by the first team show not one but three planets - a veritable planetary system - orbiting the star HR8799 in the distant constellation Pegasus; the second team's pictures show a planet, estimated to be roughly three times Jupiter's mass, orbiting the bright star Fomalhaut. Sitchin's Audacious Assertion That planets might orbit stars other than our Sun has been theoretically held possible, though doubtful, for some time; but it was only in 1988 that Canadian astronomers attained the first-ever confirmed discovery of one such planet - a confirmation that was achieved only in 2003. Yet it was years earlier, when The 12th Planet was published in 1976, that Zecharia Sitchin made the audacious assertion that not only do extrasolar planets exist, but that other planetary systems can come into being, exist, and can also meet a violent end. He reached that conclusion by treating the Mesopotamian Epic of Creation Enuma elish not as an allegorical myth of Good v. Evil (as other scholars do) but as a sophisticated cosmogony scientifically relating our Solar System's history. Thus treated, he wrote, the text tells that our Solar System, when still in its early phase, was invaded by a foreign planet thrust out of its own solar system; eventually passing near our Solar System, it was pulled in by gravitational forces, ending up (after a collision) as a member of our Solar System. The Summaerians named it Nibiru; the Babylonians renamed it Marduk in honor of their national god. That scenario, which explains a host of astronomical enigmas, was illustrated in the book by several diagrams, including Fig. A:  Astounding Links to Ancient LegendsAmazingly, several highly intriguing aspects of NASA's discoveries mesh with ancient knowledge (what many deem myths or legends). The second team's newly discovered world orbits the bright southern star Fomalhaut, whose name (coming from Arabic) means 'The Fish's Mouth'. Very bright, it is the lead star in the constellation Piscis Australis - "The Southern Fish." Situated below (i.e. south of) the larger constellation Aquarius ("the Water Bearer"  , it has been traditionally depicted as a fish nourished by water pouring down from the jar of Aquarius, and linking it to the larger neighboring constellation Pisces (that is depicted by two fishes).As Greek and Roman astronomers going back to the 3rd century B.C. attested, these three constellations were deemed to occupy the 'watery zone' of Neptune in the heavens - a tradition going back to ancient Mesopotamia which associated the three with the god E.A. ("He whose home is water" , the original god of the Seas and their Fishes (see Fig. B). Greek savants also quoted the tale by the Babyloniam priest Berossus of the divine Fish-man 'Oannes' who had waded ashore from the Persian Gulf and gave Mankind civilization. These details dovetail with Sumerian texts according to which EA (later also knowns as ENKI) was the leader of the first group of astronauts from Nibiru who splashed down in the Persian Gulf and waded ashore, dressed as Fishmen (Fig. C). Uncanny Explanation of a Sumerian Puzzle NASA's discovery of a large planet orbiting the lead star in the Southern Fish constellation may even go beyond fitting in with ancient 'myths' - it might actually explain an enigmatic passage in Enuma elish. The text - treated by Sitchin literally, not as allegory - describes the formation of our Solar System's various planets, ending with "EA" (which we call by its Roman name Neptune) as the outermost. It then ascribes to EA/Neptune the feat of "begetting" into our Solar System the alien planet that came into being elsewher - "in the heart of the Deep." yet although "engendered" far away, 'Marduk' was considered to have a genetic link to EA as his son. Could then the Deep where Marduk was engendered mean not simply Outer Space, but a specific constellation belonging to EA's celestial realm - such as the Southern Fish? The Origin of Our DNA? If so, the new discovery reveals not just from where Nibiru/Marduk had come. Since (according to Enuma elish) it brought the "Seed of Life" (DNA) into our Solar System - the discovery also indicates the source where lifegiving DNA can be found. It is a short 25 light years away - "close enough to contemplate sending spacecraft there." Dr. Paul Kalas, one of the new planet's discoverers, told the New York Times. He could be right in more ways than he realizes. |
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Offline Inconvenient News From The Moon
News, as much of everything else, needs luck to succeed. News, more than anything else, has no chance of success if it is inconvenient-and especially so, if it happens to be true.
Case in point: Latest discoveries concerning the the MOON.
The Moon- Earth's constant companion-has baffled modern astronomers all along. It is much too large to have been Earth's natural satellite, yet it is almostas old as the Earth. How did it come about? The prevailing explanation is The Giant Impact Theory: An errant celestial body ( an asteroid, a meteor) struck Earth and threw off a piece of Earth that in time rounded itself out to be the Moon. There have been problems with this explanation: The Moon's should then be, but is not, similar to that of Earth. And what happened to the impactor? The answer was: it evaporated in the immense heat caused by the impact. Not really convincing, especially since the recent calculation show that the "meteor" had to be about the size of the planet Mars.
In Sitchin's books The 12th Planet and Genesis Revisited he said: How about the Sumerian Scenario? Treating the 'Epic of Creation' not as an allegorical myth but as a sophisticated cosmogony, the ancient text spoke of a celestial collision in which an invader (Nibiru) destroyed the large and watery planet Tiamat, causing half of it to become Earth and its main satellite to become Earth's Moon. That's what Sitchin said. Did any astronomer pay attention? If at all, then not publicly, for acceptance meant accepting Nibiru and the Anunnaki and Extraterrestrials, and the rest of that nonsense....
Now, tucked away on page 170 of the July 10th 2008 issue of the Journal Nature I came across a headline that should be on the front of all major newspapers (but is not): THE EARLY MOON WAS RICH IN WATER.
As the prestigious journal itself explains, a group of six american SCIENTISTS, using new technologies, have found evidence in Moon rocks that when the Moon formed, it had water among its 'volatiles'. By 'volatiles' scientists refer to basic components that evaporate when subjected to heat. As the journal points out in the introduction to the scientific report, the volatiles had to evaporate in the great heat created if a "Mars-sized body" hit the early Earth. The new data runs "counter to the classic image of lunar geochemistry," the journal admits.
This is scientific revolution. But I know of no major newspaper, radio or TV channel, or just a wire service, that has picked up this sensational but inconvenient news.
Aiden
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Sitchin's Audacious Assertion
I) That planets might orbit stars other than our Sun has been theoretically held possible, though doubtful, for some time; but it was only in 1988 that Canadian astronomers attained the first-ever confirmed discovery of one such planet - a confirmation that was achieved only in 2003.
II) Yet it was years earlier, when The 12th Planet was published in 1976, that Zecharia Sitchin made the audacious assertion that not only do extrasolar planets exist, but that other planetary systems can come into being, exist, and can also meet a violent end. He reached that conclusion by treating the Mesopotamian Epic of Creation Enuma elish not as an allegorical myth of Good v. Evil (as other scholars do) but as a sophisticated cosmogony scientifically relating our Solar System's history.
III) Thus treated, he wrote, the text tells that our Solar System, when still in its early phase, was invaded by a foreign planet thrust out of its own solar system; eventually passing near our Solar System, it was pulled in by gravitational forces, ending up (after a collision) as a member of our Solar System. The Summaerians named it Nibiru; the Babylonians renamed it Marduk in honor of their national god. That scenario, which explains a host of astronomical enigmas, was illustrated in the book by several diagrams, including Fig. A:
I) The existence of planets outside our solar system is very important, BUT it does NOTHING (ABSOLUTELY NOTHING) with the following two paragraphs.
II) "He reached that conclusion by treating the Mesopotamian Epic of Creation Enuma elishnot as an allegorical myth of Good v. Evil (as other scholars do) but as a sophisticated cosmogony scientifically relating our Solar System's history."
This tells us that this guys simply rejected ALL knowledge between obtained by humans in the period from the Mesopotamian Epic of Creation till our days.
Idiot.
III) Ha-ha-ha.
How did the paths of solar system planets change before and after the collision. You must provide the reference to precise calculations. Show me your "money".
Without any respect,
100%
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Offline Astronomy
So, You See, As Nibiru Orbits…
No, that is not (yet) a quote from a report in the scientific journal Nature, but that is what the conclusion is of a study by six astronomers (including one from a NASA institute) published in the Journal's July 16, 2009 issue.
The Asteroid Belt between Mars and Jupiter is presumed to be the remnant of 'something' that was there and broke up. So how come it includes bits and pieces of matter found only in the outer reaches of the Solar System? The enigma is compounded by the fact that these strange bits and pieces contain organic-rich matter. The group's findings: These are bits and pieces of "primordial trans-Neptunian objects" left in the Asteroid Belt as orbiting 'comets' or 'cometlike objects' pass through it and collide with its asteroids, leaving behind a 'footprint'.
Substitute 'Nibiru' with its "organic-rich matter" for "comets or cometlike objects" as it passes periodically through the Asteroid Belt, and you get the true answer -- another instance of modern science catching up with ancient knowledge.
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Offline I have provided the some of the evidence, anyone can find "holes" in this evidence. You either choose to believe it or not. I guess in that way, it is somewhat like that of believing the stories of the bible and the "God" theory. But I must say, there is more substantial proof of what I speak of versus the bible. If you cannot be open minded and think it's even POSSIBLE, nothing I show you will convince you. With that said, you have made your opinions clear, no need to poke holes anymore, since I have previously stated that there is ALWAYS going to be opposing sides. If you need concrete proof (example: spaceship landing on the lawn of the white house) then you will always be one who denounces these theories. BTW, the history taught in our schools, regarding the pyramids of Egypt and other other unexplained places around the world, being taught as fact, can also be debunked by people on the other side of the coin. When you have millions of people in our modern times, recording unexplained UFO sightings, they ALL can't be wrong.
All of this time, I have tried to point out one thing. This IS POSSIBLE, whether its true or not is most certainly up for debate. BUT IT IS POSSIBLE and to call it bullshit, shows your inept ignorance in the face of factual circumstantial PROOF.
Aiden
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Offline
I'd agree with the possibility of alien life forms existing but would argue the distances involved are so monumental it's hard to imagine such creatures turning up in convenient times past and then disappearing in what, from a universe point of view, must be considered a very short period of time. Having bothered to get here it's hard to imagine they would just skive off like the jetsons for another intergalactic show and tell in Andromeda. There seems to me little in the ancient world that is impossible when you consider modern humans have been running about slowly building up their stores of cultural knowledge for tens, possible up to 100,000 years or more.
I think culture 'appears' at that time humans developed the ability to lock it into place with carved stonework and metal jewelry. There must surely be a long history of cultural development that sits behind these things. They cannot have simply sprung into being fully formed after polytech lectures from aliens. Sure - this is just my opinion. But before ancients built in granite and marble, they built in mud-brick and timber. Who knows what contributing cultures ten thousand years of termites and drizzle have nibbled away?
It's fair to say that many of our key modern technologies are accidental or coincidental juxtapositions of lessons across multiple disciplines - bridge building, ship building, aerodynamics, biology, medical science, metallurgy, computing. All these things feed off each other in multiple interconnected ways. The idea things would have been different in the past rings false to me.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Furthermore, NOT once did you ask, what did babies who don't get baptized do to deserve to go to hell. I would think, if your talking about sin and heaven and hell, that would be a good question to ask as well. Murderer's and Rapists and so on can repent and go to heaven, while babies who have no choice, go to hell?
Aiden
HI Aiden, thanks for jumping right in and sharing your ideas and thoughts! You do have many questions packed into your post but I have a few of my own that popped into my head while reading your post:
Do you believe that all life on earth descended from a common 'ancestor'.
How old do you believe the earth to be?
When do you believe this ET intervention happened?
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
It just doesn't take that much to debunk it.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Aiden,
Clearly, this confirms that the Bible is based on real historical facts described in multiple sources. Right?
Best,
100%
Hello Aiden,
Actually, there's a reason why Kelly and Brian don't bring those things up. Particularly, in the one debate, the opposition wasn't supposed to even mention the bible- they broke the rules.
Most of the critiques you mentioned of the bible are emotional arguments- we (being *most* antitheists) tend more to focus more on rational arguments... so, bringing up the bible (aside from smashing its credibility when the opposition brings it up) isn't big on our respective plates- particularly since we tend to consider any biblical argument starting without credibility and working its way down from there.
That said, there is a small school of thought among antitheists that one has to fight fire with fire- that we should be using the emotional arguments from/against the bible to fight the dishonest ones on the other side, instead of just proving this 'God' impossible.
Different strokes for different folks, eh?
He answered these in his post.
1. Yes. 2. The same age as the rest of us do, (he's not stupid). 3. About 6,000 years ago, give or take a bit.
Aiden, I have no problem with your alien theory as obviously I can't disprove it (and it seems to lack any logical contradiction), however, please consider:
1. Given the age of the universe, it is unlikely that another species evolved on another planet and had time to come all the way here (why?) to meddle.
2. If there were "aliens", it's far more likely that these "aliens" weren't actually from another world, but just another more advanced human civilization on our own- such as an ancient "Atlantis"
3. Human evolution needed no help; suggesting that it did is entirely unnecessary. There is no genetic evidence supporting this likelihood, unless the aliens deliberately hid the hallmarks of their tampering- I would find it more likely that they'd have left a message for us than hid their work.
4. It's entirely possible, and probable, that people just made shit up- they do it today still (more creative things than those legends and laws), and it's not unreasonable to believe that humans were this creative 6k years ago too.
I wouldn't be afraid of suggesting alternative theories if it were necessary to explain anything, but as it stands, it just isn't. Everything is quite well explained. Not saying it didn't happen, but it doesn't matter if it did or didn't.
By the way,
regarding ET etc.
Stanislav Lem proposed an interesting hypothesis concerning the absence of any observable ET activity.
As far as I remember it, his logic was like this:
1) the age of our universe is measured by billions of years.
2) ET civilizations do no need to appear at around precisely the same time.
3) the age of human race is about 50 thousand years only.
4) If there is an ET civilizations, it is very likely that it will be separated from us by millions years in time.
5) What would humans do after several millions of years???????????????????
Here we have two possible scenarios:
a) the human race will extinct.
b) the human race will be so technologically advanced that .... it probably will be more interested in things like changing the laws of physics than in talking to pre-historic religious monkeys.
Your last statement is good. However I think we would probably still have some interest in another species even if they were much less advanced, it would still be an interesting study. I would hope we couldn't evolve past a point of not caring.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Maybe. But a million years old civilization ... it is simply unimaginable ... the whole concept of "CARE" may very likely change quite drastically by then. I am just speculating... It is meaningless to extrapolate progress from several thousands of years to several millions.
im pretty sure we would have some agreement not to interfere. would seem deeply unethical as you cannot know the results of your actions.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
If he answered them to my satisfaction in his original post, I wouldn't have asked my questions.
His opening post is jumbled ~ Perhaps he can answer those questions for himself?
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
Okay first off, I would like to say thank you for all of your responses. I am glad to see that there is an interest in these topics.
To answer your questions:
I believe in evolution.
I believe that up to, the point of intervention, there was a natural order of evolution. I also believe in the big bang theory. I believe that the earth was once like many other planets in the solar system, one solid mass. I believe that at some point in time, that a rogue planet, named Nibiru, got drawn into our solar system, and one of its satellites collided with Tiamat (Earth) and created what we know today as our planet. This is substantiated by scientific proof that the land mass of earth, if put together, forms half the mass of a normal planet. I believe from that point life formed and was set into a natural order of evolution. I also believe that around 400,000 years ago, we were genetically seperated from this normal evolution by the Anunnaki (those who from heaven to earth came). Besides the many different cultures who tell us of alien intervention ( Sumerians, Dogon, Mayan, Egyptian), I believe the proof of them being here is in our DNA.
I believe that some of the stories from the original Hebrew bible are true, but when they speak of God, or more correctly, GODS. I believe these stories were created out of a MUCH MUCH older civilization. Of course changed over time and manipulated to suite the people in power. The many things left out of the bible at the Council of Nicea, told of many similar things read in the tablets from ancient Sumer. We lost alot of this information when the great library was struck by fire and burned away for all time.
I believe the current age of the earth is 4.6 billion years old.
It is more complicated to for me to believe that current humans descended from one common ancestor, I do believe we did, but I also believe we have some type of manipulation in our DNA.
I believe that between 400,000 and 200,000 years ago there was alien intervention. I believe the technology we acquired to build the monoliths around the world, we taught to us. We did not do this by ourselves, and if you believe this, you may need to do some more research on what it takes to accomplish these things in the time frame that it claims to have taken. Not too mention the tools and machines they would have needed to do it.
Reference:
Eric Von Daniken
Giorgio Tsoukolos
Zacharia Sitchin
David Childress
Lloyd Pye
There are many more, but these are the most noteworthy on the subjects I have discussed so far.
Also reference:
Christopher Hitchens
Richard Dawkins
Stephen Hawkings
These are great speakers and debaters on the subject of GOD being real or not.
I hope I answered the questions posed too me. If there are any more, please feel free to ask away.
Aiden
Yes, but not in the way humans believe today. Many know the old testament is a re-telling of Sumerian tablets of creation. There version is only slightly different. Is it a coincidence that Abraham came from Ur, Sumer?
"The prime directive"
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
OMFG. Aliens = "BullShit" because the historical reality of JC is million times more likely than f$#%^g /magnets/ aliens.
If you are able to believe in ET then, in my view, you are a much deeper believer than any Christian.
Sorry for harsh comments. It's all f..g rainbows.
This is a remarkable bullshit.
1) There are NO "rogue planets".
2) There is no planet named Nibiru (to be named it must be found in first place for the fu..ng god sake).
3) "Got drawn into our solar system" is nonsense. Where is it now then?
4) Tunguska object was ~tens meters across. A collision with a satellite of a planet (say just a few km across) would ultimately result in a cataclysm destroying both objects.
5) What the F...K does "the land mass of earth" with "the mass of a normal planet"?
I came across this reply earlier tonight, however, I had to sit and ponder on how to respond (also I was about to get laid, so even tho it pissed me off, I didn't get side tracked from my current objective).
Who are you to come out and attack me for something that it written in history and backed up by science and astronomy? If you knew anything of Ancient Sumerian artifacts and tablets, you may rethink your current posts. Or maybe your one of these people that believes that in this vast universe, we are the only intelligent life forms. How arrogant are you to think we are it? Especially when there is substantial proof around the world that says we are NOT.Who are you to compare me to someone that believes the fables of the bible, which mind you, has no proof, other than an ancient book? There is evidence from many different ancient cultures that had knowledge of things, THEY COULD NOT HAVE HAD without an intervention from beings not of this world.
Example:
There is a tablet, depicting the Sumerian God Enlil ushering in agriculture to man. Between the 2 men, is a depiction of our solar system, AS WE KNOW IT TODAY! Pluto, which we didn't discover til modern technology created the telescope. They knew about it 6,000 years ago. On this depiction, they had the sun in the middle with all of the planets circling around it. WE DIDN'T KNOW THIS til modern times. They described 2 of our planets in our solar system exactly, which we didn't know or confirm til we sent out satellites. Now tell me something, Mr. Big Shot, how did a culture of hunter/gatherer's know things such as this, without the technology to see it? BTW, the 12th planet, Nibiru, ALSO was on this ancient tablet. Nasa found this planet in 1983, but then recanted there story, JUST LIKE ROSWELL! It's people like you that keep us from knowing the truth about our true history and keep us guessing about our existence. Do you think there isn't proof, being withheld by the governments of the world? I am no conspiracy theorist, I go by the knowledge AT HAND. What we do know is that MANY different cultures clearly had knowledge of things THEY COULD NOT HAVE KNOWN and also wrote concisely what happened. Do you really believe that Egyptians built the pyramids without any outside help? If you have never watched anything on there construction, it is said that THERE IS NO WAY, they could have built them in 20 years, they would have had to make, transport and set each stone block every 9 seconds. NOT POSSIBLE. Have you ever heard of the Nazca lines in Peru? Ever heard of the Dogon? They tell us a similiar story of beings who came and taught them. They knew about Sirius B, this planet CANNOT be seen with the naked eye. I think you need to do some honest research before attacking someone who has. There is plenty of evidence out there ALL around the world defending my theory of alien intervention, you just have to have an open mind and the balls to read it.
BTW, if you take away all the water off of earth and put the pieces of land back together, number one, they fit perfectly, number two, they make up half of the size of what a planet would be. I didn't say that Nibiru's satellite hit the earth head on, but it did hit, and it did break off and shatter part of it. I cannot get technical with you, but I can give you creditable websites where you can read this and decide for yourself if the information is valid or not. The shattered pieces of Tiamat make up our asteroid belt.
There is a permanent place where are asteroid field is now, that should contain a normal size planet, according to where all the rest of the planets fit in our solar system.
What an arrogant F__k you are to attack me for something YOU CLEARLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. Show me how any of this makes me like religious people? What proof do they have of there GOD? Other than a book of stories, that clearly was stolen and changed to suite there needs at the time. Please I would like to hear this? I think you need to do some research into AAT before claiming it's "Bullshit". I don't believe in fairytales, you may claim they are and group them in the same category as religion, but that is because of your own ignorance about the subjects. I would say your like the ancient people that once thought the earth was flat, and claimed it so, without sailing to find out for sure. Your just as bad as the religious people of this world, claiming things you know nothing about, yet telling someone else who does, there wrong, just because you don't have the open mind or knowledge to see it for yourself. I understand there are skeptics in the world. But this topic is not OFF THE WALL. Zacharia Sitchin and Eric Von Daniken are credited archeologists and scientists who have devoted there life and careers to the study of AAT ( Ancient Alien Theory ). Do I know everything about AAT, of course not, but I sure as HELL know that there is credible evidence to support it and shouldn't be dismissed like you have done.
Aiden
Hello Aiden!
My dad is familiar with research of Zecharia Sitchin, Anunaki, and so on. It has a lot to do with what happened in last 100 000 years, although it's not all that human history is. It seems they left the human species to develop freely until very recently. Then their miners on Earth rebelled against hard labour and Enki and Ninti offered them to make an universal worker by genetic manipulation. The legend says, that they added a bit of their genome to local hominid. But being "fathers" of humanity, they were very tolerant to using materials available on Earth and treating humans relatively well, interfering minimally. This is why we're not likely to see them ever again. It's also possible that Enki and Ninti made several beta versions of a human, this is why there were are neanderthals, for example.
Anunaki liked to fight among themselves for power, some were more vengful, some less. If I remember, they were never described as having power over space and time. They had long lives, about as many years as we have, with a small difference, that one their year (sar) is 3600 of our years. And so there are writings like one king ruled 30 sars, another 27 sars, and so on... This must give archeologists real trouble.
By the way, the story of Sodoma and Gomorrah was also written by Sumerians. The Sumerians produced salt by evaporation of sea water. This is why they had the same word for salt and vapor. When Sodoma and Gomorrah were blown up, Lot's wife remained behind and what happened with her? What happens when nuke explodes? People evaporate. Obviously, becoming a pillar of salt is impossible, but pillar of vapor can be expected. Later translators had no idea what nuclear fire is and they chose the wrong meaning for the word, which is the pillar of salt.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Aiden,
Wait, why do you believe they took off so early? You seemed to say otherwise in your first post:
You think the Sumerians waited nearly two hundred thousand years to actually make use of what they were taught, and that civilization just kind of stagnated in that time?
That doesn't make any sense at all. If we were given all of that technology 200,000 years ago, humanity had a good 40 times more to have done what we just did in the last 5 - 6k years (or at most, perhaps 10k, if you count primitive agriculture).
Now *that*'s crazy talk. If an alien species intervened, they likely only gave us what we've got at that point (or shortly before), not hundreds of thousands of years earlier.
Ancient Astronauts is a potentially valid theory, but it still isn't needed to explain what happened. In my opinion, you vastly underestimate human potential- and those narrators on the documentaries who say the pyramids couldn't have been built by humans are idiots; even "every nine seconds" is far from inconceivable, bearing in mind that there were potentially thousands of people working on them simultaneously.
Just trying to help answer the questions from what he said. Yes, it was jumbled, but he largely answered them (except, apparently, the last one which he wasn't specific on).
TO THE OP, IF I AM MISREADING YOUR POST, PLEASE FORGIVE ME. Please clarify your post in case I misunderstood. The following is my take on the op:
I wish the word "atheist" would grow to include rejection of all naked assertions. THE op seems to have made some grand claims about ancient civilizations being scientific and mention visits from little green men. IF I am reading this correctly.
The Egyptians were master builders and used very precise math, but that did not make the sun a real being because they were smart. And some of the fans of the Ancient Egyptian cultures ALSO make claims about them communicating with space travelers. And the same conspiracy nuts make the same claims about the Mayans and Aztecs.
The Sumerians were just as dumb to the reality of the fiction of the super natural and they DID NOT predict any space visits, any more than Gene Rodenbery invented the cell phone. Henry Ford could not have built a modern Lamborghini BACK THEN merely because he once built a model T
. The word "atom" was used by the ancient Greeks, but it didn't have the modern scientific meaning it does today as when it was used back then. It was merely a CONCEPT word used to describe the abstract idea of the smallest thing one could imagine. BACK THEN they DID NOT know about electrons, protons or quarks.
You may be an atheist when it comes to god/s, but to make the naked assertion that ANY goat herding tribe of the past has any modern knowledge is absurd.
If I am misreading the OP forgive me. But it does seem to make naked assertions about the knowledge of ancient civilizations. Conspiracy theories are popular alternatives to standard mainstream religion, but are just as vacuous in evidence.
Sorry for the harsh welcome, but If I am reading your original post correctly NO ancient civilization communicated with space people. If one is going to buy that, then one could be a Mormon.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
NO, little green men have not visited us. What science is now discovering is that the BUILDING BLOCKS of amino acids MAY have piggy backed on meteors or comets, much like pollen floats in the wind to hit the stamen of other flowers.
If you are going to buy claims of ET visiting us you might as well be a Mormon. There is no known material that can be used to build a ship that can withstand the speed needed and long term nature to overcome the distance of space. I would agree that with the sheer number of trillions of galaxies in the universe, to expect other intelligent life in the universe certainly from a statistical ratio it would be a reasonable assumption.
HOWEVER, again, the laws of nature being consistent whatever life capable of making it's own transport would be limited to the same material and same problems of distance. IF we could prove other human life like existed, IT COULD NOT VISIT US.
Area 51 is crap. The movie "Contact" is crap and is nothing more than the postulation of sci fi fans.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I wonder if the "heavens gate" folks made it to the spaceship.
No, they merely killed themselves needlessly because of the rantings of a nutcase.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
To Brian: I believe in aliens. I am an atheist. I however, do not think aliens have interceeded on our behalf and probably have not been in communication with us in the past. But it is possible, much more so than a invisible super jerk deity. But admiting that you think aliens exist, opens up a whole bag of possible. I don't think it has anything to do with the term atheist. I think the term you are looking for is "Brian37" =)
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I know, I was being sarcastic.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
It is funny how new agers think they are different when they make the same mistake of wishful thinking and gap insertions and falsely, like the standard religious fans, think they have got something.
Treating the X-Files like a documentary is as bad as treating the Bible as a History book.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I think Hawking has the correct take on aliens, I have imagined that for years.
I know you know that I know that you know.....LOL
I just get a lip twitch when someone calls themselves an atheist, and then makes fantastic claims in the same manor as a Christian and thinks they are doing anything differently, when they are not.
Not saying the OP is a bad person at all. But merely mistaken as to how life started here. Life started because the accident of condition happened to manifest into amino acids leading to what we have today.
From what I understand the planets formed just like a snowflake collects other snowflakes rolling downhill to become a snowball then onto a snowboulder. Basically the bombardment of space dust collecting over a long period of time becoming bigger and bigger. Those blocks would have been everything from tiny particles to meteors which some of those building blocks would have contained the materials that build amino acids.
None of this natural science needs a god or little green men, nor did the ancients get visited by little green men.
Our life is a product of an accident and luck and natural law, nothing more.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
We are saying the same thing, it is a matter of semantics.
I DONT believe in the si fi fiction projected in crap like Area 51.
I can only say with honesty that it wouldn't be surprising if we could go to every planet in the universe to find the same natural patterns we see locally, happening elsewhere, so it IS a safe assumption that some sort of biological life exists elsewhere, just as we know stars exist elsewhere.
As I said, whatever brainy human like life that might be out there, is stuck in the same boat we are and our species most likely will die before that kind of discovery. I think the best we can hope for is long term radio communication IF ever possible. But we are not getting out of our solar system physically, much less to another galaxy. I think humans will eventually get to Mars, but more important to our species now isn't finding other life, but protecting ourselves for meteor strikes.
I wouldn't use the term "aliens". I can only speak in terms of probability when taking into account the known materials in the universe and the sheer number of galaxies in the universe. I can only say that it wouldn't surprise me, but at the same time, like I said, even if we got lucky and found life like ours, it most likely would be stuck on an island like we are.
It is more likely that we will find conditions on other local bodies that hold the building blocks or even discover the ability for some organisms to exist in extreme conditions, such as maybe under the surface of moons of other planets or even Mars. I think we will be able to prove within our generation or the next that life can exist off our planet, even if it is a basic single cell.
I bet we could send an unmanned spacecraft to Mars, for example, bury an organism in the soil in a pod deep enough and give it enough fuel to grow and at least for a time until it uses up the resources in it's containment. That I think is possible.
Being the mere quantum spec vs the known size of the universe our species will end up just like a star, it will go through a cycle and die. I doubt very seriously any chance of doing anything more than physically visiting local bodies, beyond that we most likely will go extinct before even "contacting" other human like life.
So I don't use the word "aliens". I simply say it wouldn't surprise me that the conditions we have here have happened elsewhere. Just like our solar system is in a galaxy, other galaxies exist.
But I will never buy the conspiracy crap that the Egyptians or Sumerians or Mayans or Aztecs were visited or knew anything about modern science. Those are merely the modern version of the same motif of wishful thinking that theism suffers from.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
One thing I'd like to nitpick, though: You are certainly a conspiracy theorist- you a theorizing about a conspiracy. Whether some conspiracies are true or not is beside the point, as to what a conspiracy theorist is.
Obviously people who theorize about conspiracies think those conspiracies are probably true; otherwise why theorize about them?
I almost wish we could be visited by little green men because that would fuck up human monotheism. What gods would the little green men bring here?
I would say if I was a little green man in a flying saucer and saw the violent crap we do to each other on this planet, I would keep going, "Honey, I think we are in a bad neighborhood, lets get out of this solar system".
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Oswald acted alone. Big foot is fake. Loc Ness is fake. And the ancients were not visited by little green men. These are merely lower forms of mind scams, god belief being the big daddy of conspiracies. And Pantheists are just newer versions of naked assertions.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I know I am ranting on, but I really do get a lip twitch when someone comes across as "I am not like the others" Thinking that because they have different claims they wont be challenged, or that we have "open minds" and should consider their naked assertions.
The bottom line is that a naked assertion is a naked assertion regardless of subject matter or label. That is why I think the word "atheist" should grow to include the rejection of all unsubstantiated claims.
If you cant replicate or falsify a claim and have it independently verified and tested by others, it would be unwise to adapt that person's position. That doesn't make someone close minded, it makes them practical in strict quality control.
Uttering something is easy, the hard work is in proving it to outsiders. Being open minded is not about allowing others to make unchallenged claims. Being open minded is having the ability to test something and go where the evidence leads, and adapting to new and better data that has been tested and proven outside one's own bias.
The mistake humans make, from believers to new agers to conspiracy theorists, is that they mistake "justifying" a claim as being the same as TESTING a claim. They are not the same thing.
TESTING is what is important. "Justifying" is not where evidence starts, testing is.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
If I had a gun put to my head and was forced to believe in an invisible immaterial brain, it could only be limited to the laws of nature but in no way could it be called caring.
If I am going to postulate anything to that affect I could only justify such a being if it was using us as lab rats to learn something, or it was unaware of us, just like humans cant see the cockroach on the other side of the planet.
Having said that, knowing what a human brain is and that we have no evidence of an invisible version of such, I find the whim described above as being the closest I could come to allowing my brain to fall out. But in no way even if forced to believe, could I call, or would call such a being "all loving" considering the violence, not just amongst humans, but nature, and the violence in the universe, even if I took the position of a deity, which I don't.
If Hawkins knows something he can prove, and does believe in an invisible cognition, he is not doing a good job of proving it. Being scientifically smart doesn't make on immune to the flaws of letting a sense of awe fill in the gap.
Neil Degrasse Tyson has a great video somewhere on Youtube describing the mistake scientists have made in hitting a ceiling knowledge and then stopping, "This is it, anything beyond this has to be god" only to later have that ceiling busted to fill in the gap and replace god with a natural explanation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A55RZ86p_R4
I think if Hawkins wants to postulate a being with no material brain, Tyson would say that he is making the same mistake of precluding himself from finding a natural answer without filling in the gap with an invisible brain.
If humans can accept that a hurricane is not the cause of an invisible cognition why would the laws of the universe need such a cognition. The universe is an object and that is all we know and postulating a cognitive cause cheapens the awesome reality to comic book status. It is nothing more than the same old anthropomorphism, even if done by smart people like Hawkins.
"I am smart, so therefore a god has to exist" has been a constant mistake humans have propped up, only later in the future for that gap to be filled in with a non magical answer.
The concept of a non-material brain being the cause of everything is dying to the scrutiny of reality. Being smart does not preclude a human from being flawed.
Hawkins still would need a GPS location or god atom or god dna and a way to replicate and falsify and repeat and have independently verify such a claim.
I DOUBT when people read his works he even comes close to propping up ancient myth and even if he has fooled himself into believing in a Jeffersonian type god who started everything and then stepped aside. Hawkins is not special and people like Tyson and Dawkins would take issue, even with his "god" claim even if it had nothing to do with ancient myth.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
No way. Religious people would just believe the aliens were demons.
What Brian said.
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
I would LOVE to be proven wrong. Our species needs it's space. Even in the context of a house with many family members in it, conflict is going to happen. Considering that humans allow our delusions to divide us and that we strive to be on top, it would be wonderful to be able to find a new home that isn't infested with pollution. You can only fill the septic tank before it has to be emptied.
BUT reality, as harsh as it is to face, in that we are stuck here on a finite island, can if we so pull our collective heads out of our asses, can look for was to extend our finite ride. We have to face that this is all there is and that we are as finite as the other 99% of species that have gone extinct.
Facing the reality doesn't downplay the sense of luck I have, or the reality that eventually in some way, via old age, or disease or even being a victim of crime, my luck will run out and I will die. Something gets us all eventually and there is no invisible brain aware or unaware of us doing anything about us good or bad.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Aliens, one of my favorite alien stories was written, (I think it was Fredric Brown) in the 60's. About some aliens that came and abducted someone, put him through a series of tests, and pondered how such a creature could have ever even figured out something as simple as electricity. I think they were planning to make slaves of us or some such and gave this up due to the sheer stupidity of said being. But anyway, at the end of the story there is a paper writeup about a chimp having gone missing from a local zoo....
Not really relevant but I wanted to share.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I'm an astronomer. I most certainly challenge the statement that any of this is backed up by astronomy.
Ok... citation to peer reviewed research for BOTH the historical claims and the astronomical claims REALLY needed here. If the first tablet claim is true (historical claim), how to you know it is Pluto? What does "described 2 of our planets in our solar system exactly" mean, exactly?
Bull. Absolute bull. Finding a new planet would be the absolute crown jewel in the CV of any astronomer. Ticket to instant fame and job security. If someone found one (very unlikely), they would announce it loudly, which would then immediately be followed by other astronomers double- and triple-checking the claims with observations of their own. Thinking that NASA could just keep something like that quiet shows a deep unfamiliarity with how the scientific community works.
Citation needed. Also, Sirius B is definitely not a planet.
What the hell does "what a planet would be" mean?
You can get technical with me. Actually, I insist. Provide evidence for all these claims. I am looking forward to the "credible websites" featuring real research, but I'm not holding my breath.
No, they're not. They are pseudoscientific hacks in the business of selling books. In fact, neither Sitchin nor von Däniken are archeologists or any other type of scientists.
Sitchin's speculations are ridiculed by professional scientists, historians, and archaeologists, who note many problems with his translations of ancient texts,[2] categorizing his work as pseudoscience.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
This is the most difficult forum to bullshit on ever....
There seem to an awful laot of *facts* being bandied about that neither myself, or anyone who doesn't belong to any of these extra terrestrial conspiracy theory websites hvae ever heard before...
Which leaves me with this important question: Have the ET's figured out a way around the ole' carbohydrate consumption, excessive lovehandle problem?....
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
A friend of mine, who is also an Atheist, AFAIK, threw this Sitchin crap at me a few weeks ago, so I looked into it, and after some face-palming, I went onto more productive activities. This same friend is also anti-vaccination, anti-big pharma and conventional medicine, somewhat like Bill Maher.
As for von Daniken - OMFG. He has been so thoroughly discredited, long ago. He was actually convicted of fraud - not exactly someone to treat as a trustworthy expert on scientific matters.
FWIW, I have actually been to the Pyramids of Gizeh.
It is fascinating the way these powerful memes can infect even intelligent people.
My friend's 'killer' argument against vaccination was a gross error of logic, based on the statement, which is true as far as it goes, that a particular vaccination campaign in the 90's killed more people than died of the 'flu, due to a contamination in the vaccine. I could have pointed out that it could have been 100% effective as a vaccine, while the very small number of people with an unusual susceptibility to the contamination who died, while regrettable, in no way said anything about the effectiveness of vaccination.
I spell that out because it was such a clear example of how these catchy ideas, memes, can cripple the logical critical faculties of even intelligent people.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I see I have come upon opposition here.
While I notice that many have commented on the posts I have given. I certainly do not know how to begin in replying to every opposing post. I am not really sure where to start.
I am aware of the scientific, archeologists and historians feeling in regards to Sitchin and Daniken's theories of AAT. Respectively though, there is quite a few that DO believe there is credibility when it comes to there work. To say someones LIFE work is bullshit is in my opinion very ignorant. You can go into any Sumerian Aritfact exhibit and see the claims that Sitchin and Daniken claim (among other ancient artifacts from other ancient civilizations).
I am not ignorant enough to believe that either side of this coin doesn't have holes that can be poked at. Without having conclusive proof on either side, there is no way to know absolutely for sure either one is correct, so we look at the evidence and come to a conclusion.
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Here is one of the Sumerian/Akkadian Cylinder Seals I was discussing earlier. If you notice, OUR SOLAR SYSTEM depicted on a tablet 6000 years ago. Explain how they knew this again?
BTW, as a side note, Cylinder Seal technology is ANOTHER mystery to modern science.
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Here is another depiction of a Mayan God named Pacal. You can clearly see this is person in a space rocket.
These are just 2 of thousands of depictions around the world that is clear evidence of ancient aliens.
Eric Von Daniken and Sitchin have been discredited the same way as historians also say people of ancient times used to discredit people that thought the earth was round. Just because the majority says something isn't true, doesn't make it less true, especially if there is substantial evidence that exist to theorize it does. All of you should know this fact more than anyone. Especially since atheism is in itself a minority.
Oswald acted alone.
Do u really believe this? What an idiot.
Aiden