Let me start by first Stating my beliefs.
Offline I would like to start off by saying, I am of course an atheist, I have been one my whole life, I NEVER ONCE believed that there was a supernatural being that created or cares about interpersonal lives of human beings and keeps a check list of right and wrong doings. Now if you want to add in what was written by previous civilizations, we were on an evolutionary path, until an alien intervention, recorded by the first people to create writing and first recorded history as well as many other things we still use today.
I think that is where atheists fall short in debunking religious criteria. Why, if you going to use historical accounts to debunk Jesus and the non-existence of a supernatural all powerful being, don't you bring into account the intervention of the Anunnaki to the Sumerian civilization? They TELL us how the world was created, which is substantiated by scientific proof.
I just got done watching the debate between this websites organization and the Way of the Master, seen on, I am assuming, ABC sometime in the recent past, which is a direct result of how I came to this site. I noticed that NOTHING was brought up about the Sumerians. Why is this? I would think, if your going to debunk the bible, you HAVE to challenge religious people to where (other than god) this information originated. I mean, why for instance is god vengeful? Why is he many things that can be attributed to human characteristics? An all powerful being, would NOT have these attributes, BUT, an alien race, thought to be god or gods by primitive man, WOULD. They possibly have these attributes and may have passed them on to us. A being with power of time, space, immortality, evolved past the point of human morality. Furthermore, if creating us, why would he instill that into human beings. But. if we were genetically created from an evolving huminoid species on the planet by ET's, that would certainly explain why we have stories of a god that DOES have these characteristics and also why we ourselves have them as well. Do you think pre-humans were walking around concerned about killing and raping before the intervention of thinking man? Do you think lions or other animals on the planet, that do not have this capacity for morality, think they are doing wrong when they kill for food, or kill for territory, or kill for dominence? Of course they don't.
If we take what the Sumerians say as fact, which I DO, then it explains most everything in the process of our evolution and how thinking man came to be on this planet. Do you know why you don't bring this information up when debating? I will tell you why, religious people already think we are nuts, and the skeptics on both sides, will shun away from anything that is outside the norm of conversation. But to get to the truth, WE MUST start to put this information about previous cultures which state alien intervention into our discussions. I mean think about it, where did ancient peoples notions of beliefs in many gods come from? It came from Sumer, at least until we find historical proof of an earlier civilizations recording accounts of the same stories.
I also just listened to a radio broadcast of a debate ( if you want to call it that ) between Kelly and Matt Slick, I would have to say darling, as much as you tried, you got your ass kicked. You did not debate that well and I don't think after listening to it yourself, would disagree. Not once, and I haven't gotten done listening to the whole show, did you say anything about the apostes NOT writing the gospels, which they didn't. Noone who was alive or who knew Jesus, put one word in the New Testament. Yet you never said anything about this too him. WHY? I would think that would have been the first thing to say. I mean, I think thats pretty important that at least one generation past the time of Jesus, were the authors of his teachings. Especially knowing that humans cannot pass one story to another without changing it slightly. Also you didn't mention anything about how the bible has changed MANY times over 2000 years. Nor did you mention this when discussing this topic on ABC with Kirk and Ray. I believe in what you are doing and I support it, but how you come across, comes out in an argumentitive way, without using knowledge to back up what you are saying, or at least NOT ENOUGH knowledge. I mean simple question to ask a religious person, WHY WOULD A BEING OF ENORMOUS POWER care about one planet among an infinite amount of planets? Are humans the only intelligent existing life in the universe? If not, does that mean we will be sharing heaven/hell with other alien beings? Another simple question to ask, if they believe that this life is temporary, and heaven is everlasting bliss, why doesn't every religious person kill themselves so they can be in heaven with god?
I have asked very good questions and made some comments of my own, hopefully I can get some feed back from people on this site as I am new.
A refresher for people not in the know:
Old Testament: Stories that were written by Ancient Sumerians, Babylonians, Akkadians, at least 2000 years before the bible.
Adam
Noah's ark story
Creation
The bible says god created everything approx. 6 thousand years ago, SAME TIME THE SUMERIANS wrote down all of this. Coincidence?
New Testament: Stories written by people of a generation past when Jesus lived. Do you think these stories were not changed to make him divine? Did he exist as a man? Most likely. But he wasn't divine. He was a man, plain and simple. Only after the council of nicea was he depicted in the bible as the son of god. Btw, the stuff that was not accepted in the bible, were stories of alien intervention, thought to be to heretic to be kept in the bible.
Example: The Book of Enoch
Aiden
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Millions, and even billions of people can very easily be wrong. What you have stated, and you should know it, is an idiotic logical fallacy. You *know* millions of people are often wrong (such as people delusionally hearing the voice of 'God' or their respective messiahs).
It may or may not be possible; but you need to stop saying stupid things like the above ("they ALL can't be wrong " ) if you want people to take you seriously.
That is of course your opinion and you are entitled to it. I certainly didn't claim, nor does Sitchin or anyone else in the field of study, that these alien beings just showed up, taught, and left as suddenly as you are making it sound. They may have been here for hundreds, if not thousands of years. I don't see that as coming and going in a short time span. You also have to remember, if you take what the sumerians say into account, there planet, Nibiru, comes through our solar system every 3600 years. So if possible, they didn't have to jump in there ship and go far. One thing is certain in my opinion is that the technology that ancient's had, did not just show up miraculously through human evolution and intelligence. I am so tired of people being so arrogant to say, we just came up with this knowledge on our own. EVEN WHEN THERE ARE PEOPLE OF ANCIENT TIMES TELLING US THEY WERE TAUGHT BY BEINGS NOT FROM THIS WORLD. If intelligence was miraculously stumbled upon during a natural evolution of man ( impossible ), why would they then tell us we didn't? I think you people need to realize that we went from NON-Speaking hominids, hunter/gatherer cave dwelling hominids to building mathetically/megalithic/astronomically precise sites ALL over the world, ( mind you these things were virtually built with the same dimensions) when people of that time, didn't have the technology of sea travel. There wasn't a "smart" human culture traveling around the world teaching other civilization how to build these things the same way. WE CANNOT EVEN REPRODUCE these same type of things TODAY with our sophisticated technology. If you have ever watched the History Channel and saw the show that depicts how the world would be after man goes extinct, out of all of the buildings and bridges and other megalithic modern creations none of them would last more than a couple hundred years, let alone thousands. We don't have the technology to create something that vast, that would last the test of time, yet the ancients did it, come on people, use your freaking brains here.
Aiden
Ya I don't understand why your representing yourself this way. I too could easily entertain the thought of intelligent alien life, alien abductions, and the fact aliens may have something to "do" with us. I to find the stories of Anu and the Annunaki interesting aswell although I'm not too versed in them. But to be so certain, and to voice so loudly your certainly is to me a deal braker on your credibility and reasoning abilities, the "they can't all be wrong" stuff won't get you anywhere either, they certainly can all be wrong, people often are. Why not just say "I think the alien race mixing genes with earth life to create humans a few hundred thousands years ago" thing is something worth investigation and discussion, and leave out all the annoying certainty statements in capitals litering your posts.
I can certainly respect what you say, your the first that has come at me in this way. So I apologize like I sound as if I am certain as if this is the way it happened. But the same can be said for the person that said "for certain" that this is "bullshit" when it has its creditable points.
Zecharia Sitchin, along with Erich von Däniken and Immanuel Velikovsky, make up the holy trinity of pseudohistorians. Each begins with the assumption that ancient myths are not myths but historical and scientific texts. Sitchin's claim to fame is announcing that he alone correctly reads ancient Sumerian clay tablets. [Of course, he didn't announce this by taking out an ad in the New York Times but by implying it with his "translations" that do not jibe with the work of legitimate scholars in the field.] If Sitchin is right, then all other scholars have misread these tablets, which, according to Sitchin, reveal that gods from another planet (Nibiru or Niburu, which orbits our Sun every 3,600 years) arrived on Earth some 450,000 years ago and created humans by genetic engineering of female apes. Niburu orbits beyond Pluto and is heated from within by radioactive decay, according to Sitchin. No other scientist has discovered that these descendants of gods blew themselves up with nuclear weapons some 4,000 years ago (the wars of gods and men Sitchin alone can look at a Sumerian tablet and see that it depicts a man being subjected to radiation. He alone knows how to correctly translate ancient terms allowing him to discover such things as that the ancients made rockets Yet, he doesn't seem to know that the seasons are caused by the earth's tilt, not by its distance from the sun.
Sorry man it's all bullshit but it makes for great sci-fi! They use some of this stuff in the Secret Invasion series in marvel comics.
I said it before NoMoreCrazyPeople, I'm just not as nice as he is about it.
You have ignored and contradicted the fact that several people (including me, and others), and said it is possible or may be possible. Only one person that I saw has been declaring it outright false. Many of us are not only willing, but already DO hold a "what if" position with regards to ancient astronauts. Your accusations that we aren't open minded to this are, in themselves, making you look like a raving lunatic when several of us have already openly attested to the possibility.
You have indicated certainty several times; this is what we are criticizing. Just in the past few posts:
1.
2.
3.
If you stop indicating absolute certainty of these things, and you'll find more sympathetic ears in skeptics.
Namely, those three things you mentioned *could* have happened by alien intervention, but are also completely possible through natural biological and social evolution with no intervention whatsoever- your understanding of how evolution works, as indicated by your posts, seems quite poor in this area.
Intelligence can emerge *very* quickly (even in just a few generations) if selective pressures are strong.
What may have caused those strong selective pressures is subject to debate, from competition and wars between different human subspecies, to more fringe ideas such as the aquatic ape hypothesis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis ).
Aliens coming to the Earth are by far not the only explanations for human intelligence.
And no, anecdotal reports of aliens are not different from anecdotal reports of religious experiences.
I could entertain does not equal I believe it is possible. If that is what you meant, then SAY IT. The certainty of going from apeman to intelligent man in such a short time, is backed up by anthropology, and should be treated as such. Of course there are always 'theories' on how many became smart enough to do the things they did in antiquity, but it isn't backed up by any logical reasoning. But your absolutely right, maybe I came to this site believing that I would get mutual belief in what I am speaking about, and for that, I apologize. Your right, I am not absolutely 100% certain that man was genetically manipulated and taught by ET. But the evidence of ancient people telling us it happened, backed up by what we are learning today, has more credibility than "we just got smart one day" theory.
Aiden
Do us a favor, if you insist on believing this garbage, please do not sully the word "atheist" by describing yourself as such.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
These ideas are certainly more plausible that God ideas, but that still doesn't make them all that likely.
The idea of extra-solar planets has been around since at least the time of Giordano Bruno. Newton suggested them as likely. So the only remotely 'audacious' suggestion of Sitchin was that planetary systems was that they can readily meet violent ends. The bit that they can "come into being, exist," is hardly remarkable, it is implied in the idea that they exist at all. What has changed since the middle of the last century is the accepted theory of how planetary systems formed.
An early idea was that another star passing close to the Sun drew out a plume of material that condensed into the planets. He probably had that mechanism in mind when he developed his ideas, which would imply that planetary systems were very rare. That theory has long been discredited in favour of planets condensing out of the remnants of the same cloud of material which formed the star itself.
His idea of the destruction of planetary system is purely speculative, although it would almost certainly occur when something dramatic happens like the central star going nova, or a collision or near collision with another star, or developing instabilities in the orbits of binary stars. Nothing audacious in those claims, only in the more detailed scenario he went on to propose.
Intelligence to various degrees has emerged many times over earth's history. Not all intelligence automatically leads to what we see as 'advanced civilization', even in humans. To be so emphatic in denying that our intelligence could have naturally emerged through evolution in a reasonable time is betraying ignorance of this subject.
It clearly has an evolutionary advantage in a particular kind of 'life-style', so there is nothing inherently unlikely, let alone impossible, in the conventional account of our origins and ancient history.
Cultural evolution can be very rapid, which is really what you are talking about, there is no objective evidence that our our stone-age ancestors were significantly less intelligent than we are.
The emergence of 'advanced' civilization is dependent on a number of things, and has a number of tipping point which allow much faster growth in sophistication. One is the development of an efficient writing system, allowing knowledge to be recorded and built on much more efficiently from generation to generation.
DNA emerged with the first life forms, more than 3 billion years ago. Genetic studies of many life forms reveal how they are all related. There is no indication of any discontinuity of DNA structure between us and the other primates.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
The censoring of this thread is dissapointing... I chose my insults carefully...
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
I was just wondering about the missing posts myself!
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
Well I see Aiden is back online despite his insistence he would never return so maybe we'll get a chance to do it all over again.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Martians attack!
Does random censoring actually happen here? What gives?
No. Unless a post goes against the main 'rules' of the site, there should be no censoring. I do know that every once in awhile, if a mod is in cleaning up spam (Think viagra advertisements...that we delete stuff like that ALL the time) there have been instances of posts being deleted by mistake. I will pose the question in the mod forum and ask if anyone had any issues yesterday.
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
Just to let you guys know, I am on another forum where this topic is taken very seriously by people who have actually researched and studied this stuff, I posted some stuff in regards to what abuse I was taking on here for my theories. I felt like I would share some of the comments.
Person 1
"I know, that some of those 'atheists' in that forum 'believes' in atheism same way like hard-believer christian to god; they don't accept any other views and they are closeminded. I know few people in real life who are atheists and so difficult persons in socially."
Person 2
"i know it feels good when you brow-beat (so to speak) someone into submission, but atheists (as Zagrefez has correctly stated) are as stuck in the mud as some religious types tend to be.
dont bother with them any more because nothing short of an alien coming down and admitting what we already know would change their opinions...even then...some would STILL not admit they are wrong."
person 3
"I wouldn't worry about trying to convince others of your beliefs, especially on an online discussion forum. I recently had a similar experience and realized the futility of attempting to explain a body of theories as vast and complex as ancient aliens, alternate archeology etc... I just found it impossible to condense twenty years of reading, researching and discussing topics ranging from the possible uses of sound for levitation to Hopi prophecies.
It is not a subject that one can convince a non-believer of; because in order to "believe", one has to first suspend disbelief in order to begin to see old things differently. Once those old ways of looking at things begin to fall away, a whole new picture emerges. It's kind of like those puzzles that can be two pictures at the same time. Is it an old woman or a young woman? Is it a vase, or two faces? If someone is unwilling to even attempt to "see" the other image, they will never see it.
But the really good news is that these topics are beginning to be taken seriously by more and more scientists and researchers so that legitimate study is finally starting to take place. It will be a long time before it will be considered main-stream, but it's no longer in the same category with Ramtha and tea readers. I remember a time when the only books I could find on Atlantis were "channeled". At least now, real scientists are wondering where Atlantis might be.
I've even noticed a considerable shift in television programs on these subjects. I happened to catch a show from just a few years ago, maybe 2004-2005 and the attitude is completely different than the shows airing now. The shows from a few years ago were 90% debunking and only 10% discussion of the theory. Now it's the complete opposite. The fact that there are more and more of these shows on TV indicate that there must be a growing audience.
Let time and information do the convincing and in the meantime learn all you can so that if someone asks you'll be ready with the answers they are looking for."
Person 4
"This is so laughable! Aiden, you might as well not return to that site. They are just as bad as the religious fanatics and have no knowledge whatsoever of this field. Talk about living in a box. Some of their comments are ridiculous."
Not everyone has there minds stuck in the mud refusing too see the proof right in front of there faces.
Aiden
Aiden:
welcome back (Blake, you owe me ..something?)
Listen, returning here to post recycled comments regarding a diatribe, by you, about us, to another group of people is doing nothing but show that you can't properly communicate with US.
You say: "Not everyone has there minds stuck in the mud refusing too see the proof right in front of there faces." What proof? You have failed to communicate effectively with this specific group. The way you 'tell' us what you think and 'tell' us it is the truth is off-putting and honestly obnoxious. It sounds like you have found a different forum that has accepted you with open arms and can put up with your line of preaching. I am happy for you, have fun there.
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
may I ask which forum is that? I find this place as open minded as anywhere else. Its only when someone comes with really silly beliefs like viagra makes sea turtles dance and perform "catz" the musical type stuff and the person wont take any critisism that there are problems
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
There is nothing credible about claiming the Mayan calender is a scientific tool. Anymore than posting a fuzzy picture of guy gorilla suit proves big foot. The photo may be real but that doesn't make big foot real, it just makes the photo a real fake. People wanting to believe the photo is real by itself doesn't make the photo real. It merely means people like believing it is.
The Mayan calender was a mere reflection of their culture of their time and in no way resembles the real knowledge of space and time and modern science we have now. It was a real calender they made up with what they had at the time. But they were not visited by little green men nor could they know the mistakes they had in the calender they made up.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I like how none of them seem to offer evidence to contradict anything that has been posted here.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
http://www.legendarytimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6091&sid=f5710ba611227a225d5b00baab03fca2
I love the last post there by Aiden! He really is one of the most critical and rational thinkers on that forum!!!
And this is the forum and topic: http://www.legendarytimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6091&sid=f5710ba611227a225d5b00baab03fca2
Another post from someone in the same topic: I wouldn't worry about trying to convince others of your beliefs, especially on an online discussion forum. I recently had a similar experience and realized the futility of attempting to explain a body of theories as vast and complex as ancient aliens, alternate archeology etc... I just found it impossible to condense twenty years of reading, researching and discussing topics ranging from the possible uses of sound for levitation to Hopi prophecies."
Edit: Awe man, screw you 100%.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
I love how this moron calls us intolerant. That reminds me, I need to take my leftist pinko commie fascist sig down. We all know Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Aww!
Person 1
"I know, that some of those 'atheists' in that forum 'believes' in atheism same way like hard-believer christian to god; they don't accept any other views and they are closeminded. I know few people in real life who are atheists and so difficult persons in socially."
Well this guys a dong. "Atheists", what's an "atheist" I'm not an "atheist" Im an ATHEIST. How does one "believe" in "atheism." I am seeing very quickly the kind of crowd you are fond of, people who don't think much about what they say, and it is a perfect fit for you. I love the old "atheists are difficult socially" thing which really just means "waa waa they think about the things I say and if they disagree they tell me, waaaaaaaaa"
person 2
"i know it feels good when you brow-beat (so to speak) someone into submission, but atheists (as Zagrefez has correctly stated) are as stuck in the mud as some religious types tend to be.
dont bother with them any more because nothing short of an alien coming down and admitting what we already know would change their opinions...even then...some would STILL not admit they are wrong.
Dong number 2. The old "athiests wouldn't believe things even if they had solid proof, stubborn athiests" which is ofcourse so upsurd as without evidence we could never believe in such things like light speed or the earth being round. Such things are almost unimaginable unless we get some evidence to back them up. The speed of light is so fast it sounds like a fairy tale, yet we can demonstrate it's speed and so we have no choice but to believe it travels that fast. Scientists and skeptics are all about trying to find evidence for things.
person 3
"I wouldn't worry about trying to convince others of your beliefs, especially on an online discussion forum. I recently had a similar experience and realized the futility of attempting to explain a body of theories as vast and complex as ancient aliens, alternate archeology etc... I just found it impossible to condense twenty years of reading, researching and discussing topics ranging from the possible uses of sound for levitation to Hopi prophecies.
It is not a subject that one can convince a non-believer of; because in order to "believe", one has to first suspend disbelief in order to begin to see old things differently. Once those old ways of looking at things begin to fall away, a whole new picture emerges. It's kind of like those puzzles that can be two pictures at the same time. Is it an old woman or a young woman? Is it a vase, or two faces? If someone is unwilling to even attempt to "see" the other image, they will never see it.
But the really good news is that these topics are beginning to be taken seriously by more and more scientists and researchers so that legitimate study is finally starting to take place. It will be a long time before it will be considered main-stream, but it's no longer in the same category with Ramtha and tea readers. I remember a time when the only books I could find on Atlantis were "channeled". At least now, real scientists are wondering where Atlantis might be.
I've even noticed a considerable shift in television programs on these subjects. I happened to catch a show from just a few years ago, maybe 2004-2005 and the attitude is completely different than the shows airing now. The shows from a few years ago were 90% debunking and only 10% discussion of the theory. Now it's the complete opposite. The fact that there are more and more of these shows on TV indicate that there must be a growing audience.
Let time and information do the convincing and in the meantime learn all you can so that if someone asks you'll be ready with the answers they are looking for."
Great, I'm gald people are researching this issue, people should be, and If they find anything truly significant (not just painting on a rock and stories) I'll be the first to be interested in the findings.
Person 4
"This is so laughable! Aiden, you might as well not return to that site. They are just as bad as the religious fanatics and have no knowledge whatsoever of this field. Talk about living in a box. Some of their comments are ridiculous."
Not everyone has there minds stuck in the mud refusing too see the proof right in front of there faces.
Aiden
I have still not seen any reel signifanct proof at all so...
Anyways to adress you aiden you are a massive dong. Not because of what you believe, because you are a dong. I would love to hear more about your theory but not from you, you are terribly annoying, YOU have problems socially. You seem to not read peoples words and respond incorrectly, you seem to completely forget when people say they agree it may be possible, you then act aggressiove, misquote people, and eat your own foot. You have made a complete fool of yourself here and it has abolutely nothing to do with what you believe, you really need to get that, it was how you engaged, and you engaged like a bafoon.
I did give you proof, you chose to ignore it. I refer to the first page of this post.
BTW, if you were betting whether or not I would be back, I can't help it til you stop posting bullshit. Everytime someone posts, I get a damn E-mail, stop posting or take me off this site and I will never come back.
Aiden
If you and person 3 are not actually in the same category as tea readers on this particular topic, you guys should have no trouble answering all the issues I raised in post #38.
You are so dumb, I swear.
Aiden
Ah, the intellectual and rhetorical coup de grâce has been delivered.
I've spent pages on other forums talking about why I think alien life is *likely* in our universe. I would love to see someone from your forum come here and put their ideas forward and respond to questions and criticism in a way that doesn't piss everyone off.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Brilliant. Certainly no true doubters over there. Anyway, Aiden, for the 640,000,000,000th time, we mostly believe in extraterrestrial life so feel free to keep convincing us. It beats the shit out of arguing with southern brethren, I can tell you.
And, hey, bring that nice one-of-the-guys tone you use on the alien site over here, too. It works for Luminon...
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Aiden, it is a shame you can not understand that in life, you meet many different people and how you interact with these people will differ ~ if you are trying to present an argument you need to take into consideration your audience.
I wouldn't go onto a PETA website and start a thread "I am a vegetarian, BUT have you read the reports on how meat can be healthy?" And then continue 'telling' everyone there how "there is plenty of evidence, Dr Needaham wrote an article about it! Let the evidence speak for itself! It is right there!" and then continue to repeat this over and over and express disdain in how closed minded everyone is being...
OH, and~
Learn how the quote function works
Learn how to leave a forum
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
Do you know what it takes to claim you are an astronomer? You go out to a store and buy a telescope, memorize the planets names and look at them. THAT'S IT. Whether or not you are in the field of study is in question. If your not, you shouldn't speak. If you are, then you should know, that ANYONE who finds something "out of the norm of terrestial thinking" would be contacted and silenced so to not let confidential information spread to the public. You do not know, what the governments of the world has kept from us. Yet you all make HUGE claims that this is not factial information in regards to AAT.
They (Sumerians) described in detail Neptune and Uranus, which was confirmed by our satellites. Answer to question: "What does "described 2 of our planets in our solar system exactly" mean, exactly?"
Look it up for more detail.
Aiden
This thread rules..... hahahahahahahahahahahaha
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
You know, if I wasn't attacked from the very start, and was come at in a different way, this forum post would have been much different, I will agree that I was overally anxious to claim things that despite some people's opinions, I do know this stuff isnt exact 100% proof, I am sorry I claimed that in some of my posts. Most of these was defending instead of explaining, so it came off differently then what I would so choose to do. But I believe I am not the only one at fault for getting off to the wrong foot. If you look back at others posts, there is complete denial of what I was talking about, and even called "bullshit" and "not possible" quite a few times. I honestly believed that coming to this site and speaking about AAT would have been shared. In my experience, most who do not believe in god, realize that, that information in the bible, quaran, and so on, CAME from somewhere, it wasn't all made up, and that there might be historical evidence that some of it did actually happen, and was interrupted in the wrong way.
Aiden
You know, as an atheist, I don't consider myself as being closed-minded or unable to seriously consider other possible explanations regarding various topics. Geez, I was a bible-believing Christian for more than twenty years so even the concept of there being an all-powerful deity that ruled the universe was not something that I rejected out of hand ( as you apparently do. ) I'm open to all possibilities in the initial sense, but eventually I require that a certain level of verifiable evidence be presented.
Whatever my pre-existing biases ( which I admittedly possess ) if sufficient proof exists to demonstrate that I am in error then why wouldn't I admit that I was wrong ? For example, even though I now self-identify as an atheist, if I were to encounter a convincing level of proof regarding a supernatural deity / deities ( ...second hand accounts, personal testimonies, quoting scripture, would not suffice ) then I would willingly revert back to being a theist. After all, I have no need or desire to be an atheist, it is simply the default position.
Skepticism does not equal an outright rejection.
FWIW: You weren't censored on purpose the first time. A post that you responded to was removed as it was a double post. The double post along with any responses and sub responses were removed by accident along with it.
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Because I'm not as good as you, that's why. I know your arguments are better and all, but can you answer me this... When was the last time you had the chance to display your superiority in a setting viewed by millions run by one of the biggest networks on TV? Oh never? Oh okay... back to doing it my way.
P.S. If you do happen to get a clue, maybe you'll realize the soundbite nature of TV. Maybe you'll note we had no more than 15 seconds to discuss Jesus historicity.
Vote for Democrats to save us all from the anti-American Republican party!
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Attacked by the creator.
WOW, I feel so special.
BTW, you got what? and hour on ABC? Ancient Aliens is on History Channel every week as a SERIES! Not to mention that the original show, has been shown about a billion times.
Aiden
*giggles*
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
No a problem at all...I was just worried that *I* had stepped out of line... This forum is dear to my heart, and I would feel awful if I screwed up...
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
I would give almost anything to see you debate Giorgio Tsouklos, but that would never happen. Much respect to you for your knowledge, but in this area, he would wipe the floor with you.
Aiden
That's very true. If I remember correctly the History Channel also airs programs dealing with apocalyptic themes that could be considered pro-theistic or even pro-christian in their pov. Has the fact that these religious based topics are also presented by the History Channel influenced you to reconsider you atheistic stance ?
Good question. Either way I respond you have me. So I will stick to your original claim which was debating that AAT doesnt get mainstream exposure.
Aiden
That's cool. Just me probing around a bit, no intent to ridicule you...
I was so on your side and a FAN till you attacked me. When I watched the debate on Youtube from ABC, I loved how you approached the religious freaks, I would have said alot more, but you know this if you read any of my posts.
Aiden
Hey, Aiden , I believe that you have me mixed up with Sapient the main founder of this site. Check the user names beside each post to make sure who is addressing you. I have never posted anything on Youtube ( and never will ) and I try not to attack anyone on this forum....
Aiden,
I happened to be a scientist. You cannot buy a telescope and call yourself an astronomer. To call yourself an astronomer (biologist, chemist,....) it takes 1) a PhD (or an MS at least) and 2) publications in peer-reviewed journals.
Even if you are a super-duper smart and self educated person, you must accomplish #2 to call yourself a scientist, there is no way around it.
Best,
100%
Prozac, you must be mistaken for Aiden is never wrong.
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This thread does rule. Does anyone have an opinion on what the ancient extraterrestrials would have looked like? Kap? Any imagery?
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Aidenkai, would it be true to say that most of the posters on your site are generally inclined to accept the AAT position?
Do you get many sceptics on there?
Could it be that you had gotten way too comfortable with your theories, and your reaction here is at least partly due to you not being accustomed to having possible weaknesses pointed out to you?
Looking through what the Sumerians did, and what they left behind, I would honestly have expected far more things to mark them out from other civilizations of the time if they really had had extensive contact with space-travellers.
For example, why didn't their visitors help them set up a more advanced system of agriculture than the irrigation system which eventually lead to their decline, due to the build-up of salinity?
Did they record somewhere the distance to the Sun, an accurate diameter of the Earth, distance to the Moon, IOW some really fundamental data on the Solar System which really would have been hard for them to work out without some outside help? Rather than some dots on a small plate which can be interpreted in many ways.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Why don't you start a new thread and begin again?
We've got people on here who make claims about universal consciousness, mind reading, OOB experiences, Jesus, magic, libertarianism(haha), all manner of woo-woo, etc...you can discuss anything here.
If we can all have threads with those people we can certainly have threads about aliens seeding DNA and knowledge on the planet. Just be calm and keep your skin nice and thick. If you bring up an idea here that someone is skeptical about, they will question you about it, often vigorously. Some people can even be assholes. Just push through it and state your case, and respond to questions as best you can. If you can answer the questions people throw at you then great, but if you can't answer the questions don't lash out...if your belief isn't a religion, don't defend it like a theist, defend it like a rationalist or scientist.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.