Let me start by first Stating my beliefs.
Offline I would like to start off by saying, I am of course an atheist, I have been one my whole life, I NEVER ONCE believed that there was a supernatural being that created or cares about interpersonal lives of human beings and keeps a check list of right and wrong doings. Now if you want to add in what was written by previous civilizations, we were on an evolutionary path, until an alien intervention, recorded by the first people to create writing and first recorded history as well as many other things we still use today.
I think that is where atheists fall short in debunking religious criteria. Why, if you going to use historical accounts to debunk Jesus and the non-existence of a supernatural all powerful being, don't you bring into account the intervention of the Anunnaki to the Sumerian civilization? They TELL us how the world was created, which is substantiated by scientific proof.
I just got done watching the debate between this websites organization and the Way of the Master, seen on, I am assuming, ABC sometime in the recent past, which is a direct result of how I came to this site. I noticed that NOTHING was brought up about the Sumerians. Why is this? I would think, if your going to debunk the bible, you HAVE to challenge religious people to where (other than god) this information originated. I mean, why for instance is god vengeful? Why is he many things that can be attributed to human characteristics? An all powerful being, would NOT have these attributes, BUT, an alien race, thought to be god or gods by primitive man, WOULD. They possibly have these attributes and may have passed them on to us. A being with power of time, space, immortality, evolved past the point of human morality. Furthermore, if creating us, why would he instill that into human beings. But. if we were genetically created from an evolving huminoid species on the planet by ET's, that would certainly explain why we have stories of a god that DOES have these characteristics and also why we ourselves have them as well. Do you think pre-humans were walking around concerned about killing and raping before the intervention of thinking man? Do you think lions or other animals on the planet, that do not have this capacity for morality, think they are doing wrong when they kill for food, or kill for territory, or kill for dominence? Of course they don't.
If we take what the Sumerians say as fact, which I DO, then it explains most everything in the process of our evolution and how thinking man came to be on this planet. Do you know why you don't bring this information up when debating? I will tell you why, religious people already think we are nuts, and the skeptics on both sides, will shun away from anything that is outside the norm of conversation. But to get to the truth, WE MUST start to put this information about previous cultures which state alien intervention into our discussions. I mean think about it, where did ancient peoples notions of beliefs in many gods come from? It came from Sumer, at least until we find historical proof of an earlier civilizations recording accounts of the same stories.
I also just listened to a radio broadcast of a debate ( if you want to call it that ) between Kelly and Matt Slick, I would have to say darling, as much as you tried, you got your ass kicked. You did not debate that well and I don't think after listening to it yourself, would disagree. Not once, and I haven't gotten done listening to the whole show, did you say anything about the apostes NOT writing the gospels, which they didn't. Noone who was alive or who knew Jesus, put one word in the New Testament. Yet you never said anything about this too him. WHY? I would think that would have been the first thing to say. I mean, I think thats pretty important that at least one generation past the time of Jesus, were the authors of his teachings. Especially knowing that humans cannot pass one story to another without changing it slightly. Also you didn't mention anything about how the bible has changed MANY times over 2000 years. Nor did you mention this when discussing this topic on ABC with Kirk and Ray. I believe in what you are doing and I support it, but how you come across, comes out in an argumentitive way, without using knowledge to back up what you are saying, or at least NOT ENOUGH knowledge. I mean simple question to ask a religious person, WHY WOULD A BEING OF ENORMOUS POWER care about one planet among an infinite amount of planets? Are humans the only intelligent existing life in the universe? If not, does that mean we will be sharing heaven/hell with other alien beings? Another simple question to ask, if they believe that this life is temporary, and heaven is everlasting bliss, why doesn't every religious person kill themselves so they can be in heaven with god?
I have asked very good questions and made some comments of my own, hopefully I can get some feed back from people on this site as I am new.
A refresher for people not in the know:
Old Testament: Stories that were written by Ancient Sumerians, Babylonians, Akkadians, at least 2000 years before the bible.
Adam
Noah's ark story
Creation
The bible says god created everything approx. 6 thousand years ago, SAME TIME THE SUMERIANS wrote down all of this. Coincidence?
New Testament: Stories written by people of a generation past when Jesus lived. Do you think these stories were not changed to make him divine? Did he exist as a man? Most likely. But he wasn't divine. He was a man, plain and simple. Only after the council of nicea was he depicted in the bible as the son of god. Btw, the stuff that was not accepted in the bible, were stories of alien intervention, thought to be to heretic to be kept in the bible.
Example: The Book of Enoch
Aiden
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Aiden,
Regarding your evidence. How about the pyramids being lined perfectly at the relative distances of the orbits of the planets of our solar system? You are ignoring my question for several days.... it doesn't help your "theories".
Best,
100%
I do not have enough knowledge about this question to answer it with absolute certainty. But once again, neither can you. I am not even sure, I understand what your talking about, maybe I should go read your question again. To be honest, I have been dealing with so many posts here that I have not been able to reply to ALL of them. Ask the question again and I will try and find the answer.
Aiden
Here is basically the same post as #167.
Aiden,
I have watched one of the videos that you posted as an evidence that ancient people knew the structure of our solar system. What I see in that video is that a guy tells us that "The pyramids there are lined a perfect distance of each of the orbits of planets of our solar system". Then, on 45th sec. of the video, there is a diagram of the orbits. I am not sure what pyramids were taken for the first four orbits since ALL FOUR ARE WITHIN THE SAME PYRAMID. But O.K., let's go with what we are shown.
The radii of the shown orbits are:
4-3/4, 7-1/2, 9-1/2, 12-1/2, 37, 57, 91, 140
Now, the actual radii of the orbits of planets of OUR SOLAR SYSTEM are:
0.4, 0.7, 1.0, 1.5, 5.2, 9.5, 19.6, 30
If the first four orbits (somehow happened to be within the same pyramid!!!) might be a relatively O.K. fit to the reality, the rest of the SHOWN orbits .... anyone who knows how to use a calculator can see that they do NOT fit the claim "lined a perfect distance of each of the orbit of planets of our solar system".
Unless you believe that 1.59 (91/57) = 2.06 (19.6/9.5), you should question the validity of the claim in that video.
Aiden, if you think that in that video it was just an "artistic" representation of orbits, please find the reference to the original diagram. I do not think it is very difficult to find the actual "in scale" map of the place (we even can use google maps) and show which object in the area are "lined a perfect distance of the orbits". Since I am not as knowledgeable in this question as you are, I would not try to pick up the pyramids myself. Please help me to do this.
Best,
100%
Let me ask you this, if I come up with a reasonable answer, is it going to be shot down? Where did you get thise figures at? As far as I know you could have pulled them out of your ass. Show proof of wth your talking about here with some back up from a source. BTW, this may take me a few days to answer.
Aiden
Aiden, if you don't know or understand enough about the details of how the assumed experts, EvD, Sitchin, and others, justify them to be able to explain it to us, what is it that convinces you so strongly that they are correct?
I realize that this can be said to also apply to anyone accepting the 'conventional' view, that most people aren't experts, and have to trust in the experts' understanding of the details.
Why are you so certain that most 'experts' in the fields are wrong and the minority 'theory' of AAT is more likely to be true? Especially when you admit you are not sufficiently knowledgable to argue many of the details with us, but just tell us to go and read their articles, look at the videos, etc. When we do, it is mostly a WTF reaction, they rarely present much evidence or serious arguments at all.
I am prepared to concede, I think I have, that the AAT idea is certainly more respectable that the God crap of Theism, but the mere POSSIBILITY of these ideas being true is hardly enough to justify taking what is still currently very much the minority position, even if you are so sure it is gaining ground.
I listen to a lot of skeptic podcasts, and they discuss with a lot of claims like this, and are always looking for things to discuss, and I have honestly not heard this brought up, certainly in recent times, if ever.
Lots of stuff about alternative medicine, homeopathy, chiropractic, anti-vaccination, then there are all the strange creatures like big-foot, the more common UFO and alien abduction stories, and so on.
The site that had Joe Nickell's study of the Nazca lines is one of the few that goes into these things, being one of the more serious 'skeptic' sites, who make a point to conscientiously and thoroughly look into such claims.
I see little sign of AAT ideas becoming more 'respectable in actual scientific circles. They are getting a resurgence along with the latest 2012 claims, but that isn't mainstream science, just more people like yourself who are drawn to such ideas. Most people seem concerned about the 2012 'end-of-the-world' thing, and the planet Nibiru, not much on the AA ideas.
Don't mistake a bunch of TV documentaries made in response to the popular resurgence of some of these ideas with actual researchers in the these fields taking them more seriously.
Here is an account on the same site as the Nazca lines article that mentions Sitchin and Nibiru and the Mayan calendar etc:
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/update_on_the_nibiru_2012_doomsday.
You yourself do seem to be going further than just treating them as POSSIBLE. How do you decide which 'experts' to believe if you don't have enough knowledge yourself to fully understand their arguments?
I realize it is a serious for problem for people who lack sufficient knowledge themselves to know who to trust.
I have read up on science of many years, and started with a good basic science education as part of an Engineering degree, so I use that knowledge to help me assess this stuff, and where to find more information when I get to the limits of my personal understanding of the details. And I try to find more than one source, especially when there is some disagreement. This has also given me a feeling for how such things are rationally and logically discussed, so I can judge when an author seems to be basing his claims on careful thought rather than really sloppy fallacious 'reasoning'.
But obviously, I can understand you then seeing me as just another over-skeptical 'expert' who rejects these ideas without having properly investigated them. I don't know how to answer you, when by your own admission you don't understand the details.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Aiden,
In this case my ass is actually .... your ass.
In your post #162 you referred to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOhoacgQkxE&feature=related
On 45th second of the video, there is a map. Then, you take a ruler and measure the radii. Then you google "solar system" and get the actual radii of the planets' orbits. I think that it must be in YOUR interest to prove what you are saying to YOURSELF in first place.
100%
He'll probably come back indicating one or both of two things:
1) Your ruler is biased against the AAT and so is not reliable to measure things of such utmost precision as youtube replicas of Sumerian tablets.
2) Those orbital properties listed in the scientific literature as doctored by the completely homogeneous scientific community in their mission to along with the secret world government suppress the evidence for AAT.
NO THERE IS NOT!
Otherwise the scientific community, not your pseudo science woo gang, would be widely reporting it and it would be standard practice, like teaching what mitosis or DNA are.
You are not going to get your Sumerian/ Mayan woo garbage taken seriously by any credible science community.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
You guys have "tried" debunking everything else I have referred to as AAT. How come you have left this one point out of your discussion. Explain how a map was created before the time of topography for an area that has been under ice for the last 10,000 years? Meaning you would have had the capability of flight, before the Wright Brothers invented it. Explain.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mapas_pirireis/esp_mapaspirireis04.htm
Aiden
Yea there is, just because the Scientific Community hasn't com around to this evidence, doesn't mean it isn't true. Like I have said a thousand times already, current belief of the earth being fact, was a well known fact, until it was discovered much later to be round. You can not use absolutes, IN ANY FIELD EVER, only time can tell what is true and what is not. AT LEAST SOME OF THESE THEORIES HAVE STRONG EVIDENCE TO BE TRUE. WHY CAN"T YOU FUCKING SEE THAT ASSHOLE. I think you just like insulting me, is all. And that is fine. There are many things that your so-called "scientific community" would have said was absolutely NOT possible 400 years ago (example: TIME TRAVEL) or 1000 years ago (Example: Flight capability) that now is believed or is known today. Do you think scientists 200 years ago thought cloning a person was possible. The fact that we can now clone things ourselves, justifies what the Sumerians say about us being genetically engineered. What makes you so arrogant to think we are the only intelligent life in the cosmos? If we can do it, it is very possible that aliens have already done it.
We have space travel, very crude at this stage of development, but we still can do it. If in a 1000 years we have the capability to travel the universe, which is in our day being researched, so probably possible in 1000 years. And we find a planet where primitive life exists, and we land on this planet, which we would, simply because as a race, we are a curious species, and teach our some technology, would we not be thought of as gods? And wouldn't those primitives build monuments to revere us, would they not write about us, so future generations can speculate who and if we existed? I think this is very possible and probable. NOW if we would do it, why wouldn't you think its POSSIBLE it was done with us, especially when THE FUCKING PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD FROM ANCIENT TIMES SAYS THEY DID. You are very close minded to think that we are the pinnacle of evolution in the vast universe. I mean FUCK even the Vatican said a few years back intelligent alien life was possible. OPEN YOUR FUCKING MIND.
Aiden
Have you actually read that web page?
It is specifically rubbishing all the claims of von Daniken and others about the map!
You have given us a link to a 'debunker'!!! Thanks!
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Or maybe they don't waste their time on garbage.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
No, just insulting your claims. I don't insult things like DNA or mitosis because those are valid scientific fact.
You are smoking the weed of fantasy wanting to get high off of woo. But if there were a Nobel Prize for garbage, I'd certainly nominate this for such an award.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Where do you get the idea anyone here is denying the possibility of alien life??
I, and certainly most here that I know, are entirely comfortable with the idea of intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe.
We certainly don't claim we are 'the pinnacle of evolution". WTF did you get that idea?
IT is the extreme unlikelihood of any advanced alien civilization being anywhere near close enough to get here , given the enormous amount of energy and/or time needed to get here from even a nearby star by any calculation.
It is the lack of really credible, unambiguous evidence that we have been visited. There is far more useful and significant things they they could have done for us than just these things you claim, if they were really so interested in us as to spend so much time and effort to get here.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I have a question.
I think there might be some research done on this specific mindset presuming he is sincere and not under drug influence. Does anyone know the name of this state? Is it some complex neurosis?
Thanks,
100%
Abraham, the founder of "the big three" monotheist traditions, was from the Sumerian culture. It's not a coincidence, it's not a clue pointing to alien interference; it's just the way things happened. For some reason or the other, Abraham became disillusioned with his culture and went to found another. Later, people made some stories saying it was God telling him to found a new land, a promised land filled with special, saved people. Does this sound familiar at all in human history (Mormons are a great example)? But you can only deviate from your culture so much, and it's not surprising the Hebrews inherited certain stories, traditions, and thoughts. Those fingerprints are all over the Old Testamanet. Utnapishtim and Noah is a giant red flag.
Furthermore, the belief that humans needed alien intervention to become civilized is woefully inadequate. First of all, why is that necessarily true? We might be a relatively young species considering geologic time scales, but we have been evolving in a very unique, deliberate way for many thousands of years. What in our cranial ability/capacity makes us so inadequate for you to believe that we couldn't figure out animal husbandry, permanent settlements, agricultural systems, metalworking, etc? Do you know how we domesticated plants? We'd keep eating some until we didn't get sick, and then try to reproduce those. Does that sound extremely brilliant or impossible to figure out over thousands of years? Because it seems just... possible and likely.
you DO run into the same problem as theists, in the sense that it's not MY responsibility to prove you wrong; it's YOUR responsibility to prove your ASSERTION. An assertion is a positive act. And huge claims require huge evidence. So here you are, with an extraordinary claim, and the best evidence you have is: 1) pyramids are hard to make, so that means they were made with alien technology, and 2) not ALL UFO sightings can be mistaken.
If I were to say, there is a tumor inside my head, and you said "No, I don't believe there is a tumor in your head, since you just had an MRI that was clean, and you aren't showing any signs of illness," but then I said, "Yea, but it's POSSIBLE!" Those two views aren't equivalent in regards to the strength of the argument. Just because something is possible, does not mean any sort of decent case for its existence can be made. Giving the two arguments equivalence would be a giant fallacy.
And yes, ALL of the UFO sightings can be mistaken, just like ALL of theists can be deluded or mistaken. Let's imagine we are the aliens, and somehow managed to travel near or faster than the speed of light (or maybe our lifespan is long enough where traveling at the speed of light for thousands of years is manageable), and we approach an inhabited planet. Over the course of 60 years, we crash our UFO, we experiment on animals vaguely, but destroy them in the process for some reason (this coming from a civilization fully able to approach the speed of light or utilize worm holes for travel), and we NOT ONCE offer the inhabitants any sort of proof that we have been there, despite the planet being inhabited by billions of beings, a large proportion of which have photographic capability.
I think he expected to walk in and convince everyone that aliens had a hand in our historical cookie jar.
He should realize by now he has walked into a hall of skeptics.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
In all seriousness, all kidding aside. You think we are being mean to you. We are trying to wake you up.
A light year is 6 trillion miles. The closest star is 4 light years away, which would make it 24 trillion miles away. THAT IS THE CLOSEST STAR TO US.
There is no atom in the universe, much less material that could withstand going the speed of light, much less faster than the speed of light which would be needed to make space travel, JUST TO THAT STAR, practical.
All scientists can say about "alien" life is unromantic and quite boring. No credible scientist can claim that we have found intelligent life. What they talk about is strictly statistical likely hood IF we had the ability to go to every planet in the universe.
We know the atoms that make up amino acids exist and exist as atoms outside amino acids. So, just like we know stars exist elsewhere, it would not be a shock to see life exist elsewhere.
BUT, Knowing what we know about the distance of space and the speed of light would put any other life out there like us, in the same boat. There is no way around this.
Which makes it less credible to try to take ancient myth, with people who knew even less than we know now, and try to twist it to look like they knew something we don't know . We have much better science and data than the superstitions of the Mayans or Sumerians. If what you were saying was true, scientists would have been all over it a long time ago and it would have been established. It is not a conspiracy against you.
I don't give you a pass anymore than I do anyone else who attempts this. Your Mayan/Sumerian claim is not the first or only attempt and others outside your claim . Other people do this with other religions and other claims as well. Humans are notorious for believing absurd claims. I am not being mean to you, nor is anyone else here. You are not a bad person for believing this, you merely got it wrong and we are trying to wake you up.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Yes, he should, but he apparently has not realized that. I understand that religion is generally caused by the targeted indoctrination of youngsters. A similarly strong and blinding belief in aliens as a culture-induced phenomenon seems a bit strange and unlikely to me. For this reason, I think that Aiden should have a very special organization of neurons.
Nah, I think like a lot of folks, he just wants something to believe in, an easy explanation. Granted I consider it a weakness in our species, but it could be worse, there are crazier idea's out there.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Again, if you think we are singling you out and scientists are singling you out, what do you think we/ or the scientific community would think about this Christian website?
http://www.pleaseconvinceme.com/index/The_Bible_Foreshadows_Scientific_Discoveries
Or this Muslim website:
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/general-religious-discussions/45807-modern-science-prove-quran.html
And one sample quote says:
They falsely try to pass off as meaning a star.
First, the verse talks about the sky, not a star, and likens THE SKY to liquid, not fire, an paint that is rose colored, LIKE HUMAN BLOOD.
They writer of that verse meant it to be taken that Allah would fill the sky with blood, or turn it into blood. It uses the word SKY not star.
What this person is doing is RETRO fitting, just like you, and just like the Christians on the first website. And no different than Christian apologists do in the first website.
YOU are not doing anything differently. Being elaborate doesn't mean true. It just means these people want it to be true so badly that they are willing to read into something that is not there. JUST LIKE YOU.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Well, consider that this alien technology thing (and many other superstitions) can and is perpetuated by indoctrination. I once had a girlfriend who was very intelligent; Math major, etc. Her dad was very into the "aliens built the pyramids" thing, and convinced all his daughters of it at a very young age, and convinced one of them that she had ESP. I was personally OK with it, and saw it as just an unfortunate but ultimately benign occurrence, but she thought it VITAL that I believe her sister could read my thoughts, or even believe that she could know what cards I was picking from a deck (yes, it was pretty pathetic). When you have a symbol of authority telling you THIS IS IMPORTANT, and you live your life with that supposition for years, when someone comes along and thinks that's ridiculous, it makes you react. You don't need proof, you just need the people in your circle telling you it's true and important.
Yup, I am trying to understand what have made Aiden to believe ET evidence; maybe his dad or his mother have passed this on him? Then it's similar to your example.
GeneralRelativity= timespace is not beyond a limited measure of artificial control. (The best our planet has managed so far is time dilation in terms of a few hundred nanoseconds in jet planes flying this-a-way or that-a-way. That's 20th century technology, of course.
)
Brian, I HATE playing devil's advocate with this post, but if you think we've come anywhere near exploring the limits of physics or even applied science, you're boldly mistaken.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
It's easier to believe than the magic cloud sitting peeping tom theory. Imo anyway. But it would still beg the question, where did et come from? Ugh did they have a god too?
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Exploring our limits and busting them is what science does. I welcome that. But some want to let their brains fall out and replace it with comic book crap. There is lots of mental masturbation amongst even the scientific community, but right now as it stands, we know of nothing that can make space travel practical. I think it is safe to assume that whatever life is out there, even if more advanced would have the same problems with distance and speed needed considering they would be working with the same atoms we do.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I think this is a good case to apply Ockham's Razor.
We can't completely exclude the possibility of things which would make long-haul space-flight possible, allowing aliens to visit our ancestors and redesign their DNA, etc. but since we have a bunch of reasonably well-established science which quite plausibly explains all the raw evidence Aiden points to, it is far more reasonable to go with current science than assume that a whole bunch of remotely possible, currently completely unobserved things might be an 'explanation' worth considering outside the pages of a sci-fi novel.
Some of his ideas may be POSSIBLE, but the regular history is at least as possible, arguably much more.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
All too true.
Bob..... you take most of the fun out of posting with your well thought-out and sensibly written ideas. Leaves a lot less room for me to poke holes in other's arguments...
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Yes posting after bob can sometimes feel like going on stage after metalica, with an acoustic guitar.
Oh man EPIC FAIL! I was about to post that to debunk the whole thing and he beat me to the punch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwjoYpGuf8Y
Pretty Much explains it all. THank you for coming and have a nice day. BTW, my mother is an estranged methodist, and my father WAS lutheran. No matter what you say, there is VIABLE evidence that we were visited and genetically manipulated. It is ALL over the world in our archeological findings. The mainstream scientific community and acheology community are paid to explain things in terms of terrestrial means, anything our of that is scorned because most people are religious in there beliefs and this would throw the world into anarchy. Just look at how you all have attacked these things, I have the most views and comments on your site, why is it all of you are so concerned with debunking these claims? Because you are all scared of this being true, so you are fighting so hard to make it NOT true. Think of this in worldwide terms. I bet if aliens did land on the planet and tell us everything I have been claiming, there would STILL be quite a lot who would challenge it. Also, if Aliens are millions of years old, and we are only a couple hundred thousand years old, they could very well have breached the gap between interstellar space travel. Be skeptical, but do it with a little bit of AAT knowledge, not just your own scientific beliefs. You are a VERY small community of atheists, on a VERY small forum. Do you really think AAT's are also this small in numbers? Not that it matters, but you claim this isn't growing in numbers and more people are not taking it seriously, that is a false claim my friends. Just as people come over to Atheism, they also sometimes as a result come to AAT as well. Things just fit to perfectly to what the Sumerians say, of course your going to have your skeptics and debunkers, but to claim this is all mumbo jumbo, from people who just created this stuff in there heads right out of cave men times is utter stupidity. I have made my claims, I have posted at least some of the stuff I believe backs it up, and now I am done. You either believe it is possible, or you don't, I am sick and tired of coming onto this site, to justify something that clearly you are not ready for. But guarantee when your sitting in your rocking chair 50 years from now and your scientific community explodes with these discoveries being made public, you will think back to this post (hopefully) and say to yourself "DAMN THAT AIDEN GUY WAS FREAKING RIGHT".
Aiden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF3yBd9dtyg&feature=related
You may want to check this out too!
Explain how Modern Science has NOT been able to link DNA of modern man to anything before us with 100% certainty? The "so called" missing link theory that ALL religious people use to Debunk evolution to this day. Yea, that's your science all right, claiming something to be true (which I believe once you add in what ancient people told us is true) when it hasn't been officially proven with 100% certainty to be fact. Even Darwin is said to have recanted evolution on his deathbed. If you watch this video, you will see that ancient people depicted the double helix sign of DNA in hundreds of sculptures and tablets as well as tell us what happened in there writings. Nothing you have, nothing I have, nothing AA theorists have, nothing modern science has, is 100% proof of anything. BUT, both sides, if debated by equally knowledgeable people from both sides, would have equal proof to justify both of these claims. So back to what I have said from the beginning, it is possible.
Aiden
Aiden,
I would like to repeat this again: most of us DO believe it is POSSIBLE that aliens exist and even that they have visited the earth. However, I DO NOT believe and will NEVER EVER believe that 1.6 = 2.1. I am sorry, but you will probably fail to convince even a third grader to believe this. Do your math and never believe everything you've been told. Do NOT believe atheists, check the facts.
Good luck,
100%
As to your religion growing, I suppose you might be right. New religions like yours do seem to be growing. I think it's mostly because of the Internet. The Internet makes it easy for people in dispersed locations gather together with like minded people. If you’re the only person in you town who believed in fairies or aliens visitors then you might start to think that you're crazy, but the Internet has millions of people using it. Even if only one in a thousand people believe your story that still adds up to a large number of people and the thing with religions is that the more people you have the easier it is to gather more. People seem to feel that any belief with a large number of adherents must be a least somewhat respectable, or at the very least that it's 'not crazy'. Still, I wouldn’t be too sure that your religion is going to win the most market share in this new market place of faith. You have a lot of completion from thing like Wicca, Polly theism, and many others I'm probably not even aware of yet.
Edit: Apparently their are billion of people on the Internet.
http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm
Time 1:13 is lovely... and pretty much explains it all
The last message is great as well. Did you know that Obama is a secret alien agent sent to earth from planet Nibiru 200 years ago? It is secret information, you should believe me.
100%
AAT is not a religion, its a theory. Just because I have a 75% belief in it, does not mean that I have a monotheistic or polytheistic religion where I believe in and worship to aliens. Get it straight. Do you worship to the church of Evolution, even though its JUST a theory? Do you bow down the holy evolution god when it itself hasn't been proven to be true? I think you need to reposition your current statement bro.
Aiden
Once again, you chose to comment on something that denotes absurdity ( and I am pretty sure the author never said anything about Obama being an alien) and not look at the facts of the video. I think what the author meant by putting Obama's picture at the end of that video was to say to the governments to stop lying to us and to let us in on secret knowledge, that I know is there, and IS being withheld from us. But certainly not that he is an alien. BTW, 1:13 was a depiction, that is 6000 years old, that clearly is a representation of our DNA, so good going, you proved my point. You proved nothing by your comment and just wanted to get a laugh at my expense from your other "likeminded" brotheran on this website. The facts are clear on that video, you just have to have the mindset to see them, which you clearly do not.
Aiden
Aiden, WE (probably quite a few of us will agree with me) DO NOT BELIEVE IN THEORIES. Period. Including the theory of evolution. ANY theory is verifiable (potentially at least). Your so-called "theory" is in fact a conspiracy theory which must not be mistaken for scientific verifiable theory.
YOUR "FACTS" are BULLSHIT. And you FAILED COMPLETELY TO PROVIDE A SINGLE, SINGLE, JUST ONE, ONE TINY LITTLE fact that would be a solid fact.
Frankly, Aiden, I think that I could do a much better work than you did to find some unexplained phenomena and historical artifacts.
ARE YOU F..ng BLIND? (guys, I would really run at this point out of even my Russian vocabulary of *** words)
The DNA is a double spiral. The image on the left shows two snakes, I guess. These two images are TOPOLOGICALLY DIFFERENT!!! Mamma mia. I didn't want to say this, but in Europe (including Russia) there is a strong opinion that an "average" American is dumb. Here we go...
You might be right. Let me check the dictionary.
religion
1. A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.I haven't heard you talk about the cause, nature, or purpose of the universe. You seem to be talking about superhuman agency, but not about devotional and ritual observances. I don't think your belief qualifies under the first definition.
2. A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. You do seem to be talking about people all agreeing on a set of fundamental beliefs, but not practices. I don't know if you qualify under this definition. 3. The body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions. You do seem to be talking about people all agreeing on a set of fundamental beliefs, but not practices. I don't know if you qualify under this definition.
4. The life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
I don't think you belief qualifies under this one.
5. The practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
I don't know if you have any rituals so you probably don't qualify under this on.
6. Something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
I don't know about this one either. You do seem very devoted to this idea. So much so that you feel the need to preach. 7. Religions, Archaic. religious rites. You don't have any rites do you?
I guess you're right. Your beliefs don’t seem to fit smoothly under any of these definitions. I guess your belief isn't a religion, yet the 'evidence' you use and the way you defend it seems really similar to the 'evidence' and methods used by most of the religious people who come to this site. I'm not really sure what to call your belief system.
Edit: I can't fix the format. I guess it will have to do.
So a depiction of something, in your mind HAS TO LOOK EXACTLY LIKE WHAT IT IS, TO BE WHAT PEOPLE THINK IT IS? Even to people that didn't have that technology and were only trying to depict something they didn't have complete knowledge of? The Sumerian's were depicting this NOT the Anunnaki. This is the same as the cylinder seal of the planets, of course its NOT EXACTLY represented, if it was, we would know for sure. We (meaning archeologists and scientists) have to look at it and infer what it is, this always causes debates, because one group is going to see it as one thing and another group another thing. We today even use a similar depiction of Medical associations, are you saying the double helix we use doesn't depict DNA, because it doesn't look EXACTLY like DNA? It's called a representation. DUH! BTW, in your mind, I have not explained myself, that is because you refuse to look at it differently. You have your mind set that this is not true, so you will find any debunker that also feels the same way and believes he has debunked it and link those. That means nothing too me.
Aiden
Aiden,
One more time. The two images are topologically different, which means they are different as much as a circle is different from a spiral. It is not the matter of similarity. It is the same as if you would show me a cat and call it an elephant. And if I would ask you "why so?" you'd reply "because both are the animals".
Again, the DNA, the double helix structure, would be represented by a SINGLE "snake" or two snakes turning in the SAME direction.
Please, oh, please, I am working with my 7 year old on these types of geometric figures. It's really not that complicated, I'm sure you can make it. /silently, I believe you are not THAT stupid/
100%
The only reason I defend it, is because you refuse to admit it warrants merit and more study. I don't claim that any of this is fact, only that it does substantiate a worthiness for more study to see if it is in fact true. Which regardless of what we say, will be studied, is being studied and there isn't anything you or I can do about it. So I guess only time will tell. I am honestly an impatient person, I can't wait to be proven right and call you fags losers for thinking Science is an absolute, which clearly has its flaws just like any other theory. I have given enough substantial evidence to all of you, if you really wanted to know whether it warrants the justification I claim, you would read EVD or Sitchin, do some research from the foremost archeologists that specifically study these things in terms of AAT. But you don't, so how can you speak from a position of absolute certainty? That is my huge prolem here, I am willing to concede to all of you that this could be a modern day re-evalution of something to believe in simply because religion is losing followers, and that people still want to believe we are bigger that what we are. But I also know for a fact, that there is TOO MUCH that has been found around the world that we KNOW OF, that tells us THERE IS a possibility that I could be right. Not too mention what has been found that MAY actually tell us exactly and has been withheld from us. You don't know what we haven't seen, how do you know there isn't a reason why we have only been shown only stuff that is debateable. Your answer, I know, is because it doesn't exist, my answer is, governments keep things from us all the time, why not this?
Aiden
Whatever. It's seems to be well known assumption by many that it is a representation of DNA, along with many depictions of the tree of life on tablets. Let me guess, the tree of life, that is also used as a depiction of either DNA or life being created doesn't represent that at all and is just a tree drawn for the picture to look pretty?
Aiden
Your problem, Aiden, is the failure to realize that some of us here ARE RESEARCHERS, and WE are doing research. You clearly gave up your mental ability to comprehend the essence of what you are trying to discuss, and you have gave up all the responsibility for your claims to some pseudo-researchers. The second your problem is that you are not capable to defend a single claim that you've made. You just don't understand what you read and surrender your remnants of mental power to the authority of swindlers.
So what you are saying is, your beating me because I don't have the knowledge to defend against your so called debunkers theories? But someone more knowledgeable about this stuff could? Not that it doesn't exist?
I will concede to that. I am still studying and researching these theories, I have already said that, but EVERYTIME I learn something new, I get more interested because it re affirms what I have already read.
Aiden