So you are telling me you aren't even able to address this thematically. Is that correct ? 

  Why not give it a try, all I could do is number it for you, that is all I could do. There are spaces between the lines. Oh, And before you ask me that question and before you try to figure out the HTML stuff; try line by line, K?

  1.)  Hebrews 9:22b .."without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sin"

 2.) Gospel of John 1 - The next day John the Baptist *saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the World" 

 3.)2 Corinthians 5 - For our sake He made Him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Jesus we might become the righteousness of God.

And,

  4.) Romans 6    How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness .. For we have been united together in the likeness of His death,. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness; ..And have become slaves to righteousness. Cross-reference 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
 

1.) Titus 2 -- Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing .. instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age

2.) Matthew 6 -- No one can serve two masters. The person will hate one master and love the other, or will follow one master and refuse to follow the other. You cannot serve both God and worldly riches.

3.) Psalms --  Surely men of low degree are a vapor, Men of high degree are a lie; If they are weighed on the scales, They are altogether lighter than vapor [and evaporate] ..If riches increase, do not set your heart on worldliness. God has spoken once, Twice I have heard this: That power belongs to God.

4.) Jude 1:19 -- These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

5.) 1 Timothy --  O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”—

6.) Book of Hebrews -- Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people, of no worldly power.

Where can I go .. (For the sake of a better understanding of the 'Smurfdom' on humility).

Ps.-139

1.) Matthew 23:12 -- 'Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted'.

2.) Proverbs 11 -- When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.

3.) Micah 6 -- The Lord has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you?  To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

4.)  Psalm 147:6 -- 'The Lord lifts up the humble; He casts the wicked down to the ground'

5.) Daniel 10:12 --  Then he said to me, “ Do not be afraid, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart on understanding this and on humbling yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to your words.

6.) Psalm 18:27 -- For You will save the humble people, But will bring down haughty looks   

7.)  Book of Job 41 1-3; 34  “Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook? Or press down his tongue with a cord? “Can you put a rope in his noses Or pierce his jaw with a hook?  “Will Leviathan make many supplications to you, Or will he speak to you soft words?..LEVIATHAN IS KING OVER ALL THE CHILDREN OF PRIDE

A vacation from retirement for a bit. Got some traveling to do.

-----what is the actual inheritance as we interpret from the book.   That would be immortality and resurrection.  As best we know no one today can work miracles in which the inheritance requires.

Here's some insights we have outside of faith in the idea, and at this point I have to say that, again-I have troubles putting faith in things I don't understand.

1- Chemical imbalance--- in this case caused by being a discontented being/entity. Many medical types know that a contented person heals faster and better then those discontented. Our theory is --what if we didn't have all the troubles in the world that we presently have. We do know that we would live longer----but---what about actual contentment, could this mean that one overcomes death. We don't know but think it has something to do with it. In our present exited, high stress and anxious nature is to much adrenaline ---to much--and unhealthy. Adrenaline may be good for fight or flight, but in to much anxiety is there to much to often and it becomes harmful. Of course now, we don't know--it's just one hint. But, we all know happy people are more healthy.

2- Recent psycho findings---this is the one the Psycho Smurfs are watching closely. It is being seen/found that experiments with happiness is causing fundamental changes within the brain. What if one could be happy 90% of the time. What powers does the brain have that could cause eternal life (if at all). That remains to be seen.

3- Physics, namely from 'The fabric of the universe" documentary on PBS. The "in House" Physics and Bio Guy" Bob Spence may have to be consulted on this one--I may not have it correctly understood.  The term is---entanglement, which means that two particles become what is referred to as entangled. When entangled one particle can/if could  be placed a distance from each other and there remains no distance between them. Put one 10 light years away and they act as though there's no distance. If one particle wants to go to the other it's simply there and won't take 10 light years to get to the other. It is instant---as though they are continuously next to each other. Experiments show this to be true. B--- when one attempts to measure the particle it knows it is being measured and changes. (if I understand this correctly) How does a particle know when it's being measured. The question I have then is----does one's intellect entangle with a particle---if so---how can one know what powers the brain actually contains or is capable of. ---bear in mind, it is also a part of the universe. Another question would be-- if the brain can cause an entanglement with mater and have an effect on it---what is it capable of? Can it will a conglomeration of particles and cause a mass formation of matter. ???: don't know. We're keeping an open mind---as usual. We suggest everyone do the same. We all are not at the end of all the can be known or found. The material and the spiritual are friends in the universe and not at odds with each other. But, the Brain is dependent on material and then in turn one's own person is also. These two are compatible. Having found what we have we know better then to discount anything. Apparently, each can prove the other.

Neckst post----Babylon the Great

The TV program 20/20 had a segment on this subject. It seems those that can accept loss fair far better in life and live longer then those in the fast lane, as it's referred to. The way I put it is---they're living a lot closer to the "tree of life", and that's nothing more then accepting the good and evil on equal terms.  But---if you/we live in a system that others---(government and religion guys) are in charge of what is and isn't they keep one far from the tree, and it's a continuous intrusion of regulating the precepts as to how one relates to another, mainly, through money and competitive nature. We're continuously side-tracked from proper morals and ethics. It's the leaders that forward what is moral---and if they have a non-working sense of morals then what the heck are morals good for on the first count. On one hand they promote animalism, and then on the other try to establish a kind of morals that's ineffective and based on their own immoral character. They're trying to create morals inside a box that doesn't contain morals, and that's civilized mentality under which morals can be anything from time to time so it can fit into the immoral box----depending on who's to make the money.

I'm looking up things to attach to Babylon the Great and how it has an effect on our persons.

The only intelligent God would be us. What I meant is that we are with Hawking. (we already know this long before Hawking,s statement) No intelligence is needed to create the material universe. Under this concept God does not create the universe, it, God (us) is a product of the big bang. There must be a brain first for a person to form within. Once the person is formed then Poooof- there's God. To begin with this particular person need not be very intelligent or originally have any intelligence at all.  We think intelligence forms long after the brain is formed and the brain is the means to allow intelligence to develop. This is a speculation of course, but seems a logical process. But- we don't see intelligence as a human thing, it merely is a means to understand what a human thing is. We say intelligence is a neutral that can be used to figure out something/anything.

 But there again, what we referring to is God as "us". But, Gad can also be construed to mean the forces that create regardless of what or means or process may be. but in this case God can be understood to be the natural forces that create material. But the description is moot because it is of no human value because we cannot use such a description of God because it is fixed and cannot be changed. so it does one no good to reckon God as being in any material form. But what does have value is God pertaining to a being such as Us. When "we" understand God as us we then can use intelligence to create a mode that we can be or follow.  Being that material is a fixed position and considering the powers that create material can be seen as God of some sort doesn't do any good. We can't change material (except by miracle if that's possible) but we can change ourselves/mentality.

God is the creator of being. Ok what this means is there is/was some means that a being/person was created in the brain. What that process or or ability is can be construed as God the creator.  But to us that power or process is unknown. Maybe we are merely a product of the brain and it's the functions of the brain itself that creates or allows one to exist. "person" could be a natural outcome of the brain . We don't know. Being that "we" are created then what did the creating made us the same as itself. We know that at one time our person formed, but what formed the person is a mystery. What did the forming can be construed as the creator---. We are creaed in both the animal and the human, but it is the Christian/Adamite God/way that creates the human. What that means is that Christianity/Adam is the one side of ones creation that human is attributed to. The other side is what is referred to as Satan or animal. But there is a slight difference between Satan and a Lion. A Lion is natural and cannot control if it be a Lion or not. Satan is a lier that say "I'm Human" when not (wolf in sheep,s clothing), --a purposeful deception which takes one to be intelligent to understand to be a purposeful deceiver. A Lion is not wild---it is natural. Wild means -out of control or uncivilized. Civilized is one who is a controlled (People contrived) Lion/predator.  Animal and human are both natural, Adam was "natural man". So, the creator of man is the one side that is human that creates one as "man". Proper man is Christianity.  The Christian God/Way then is then Creator of "human" being. I need to add human here because JC represents the one side (singular) of one's/everyone's being. Everyone has it.

or different. I may be hypocritical at times as the information can get messy  from different times throughout the study time of 8 years.

                          I like reading your replys' and opinions. But could you USE  BIGGER LETTERING!!!  I'm getting eye strain and headaches trying to read the small print. PLEASE!

Alpha Smurf would like me to be a bit careful with information about the group--as to who's who and where. Actually I don't know anymore and didn't know much about where anyone was through the study time. I've only met 4 so far and each only once. The last was at Quartzsite AZ last April. They were spread probably over six states and were an organization of sportsmen typically. They each were in business of some type or were connected to a university or two. The physics Smurf was a professor somewhere. I know some of this from mail I would get from time to time which replaced the packet courrier at one time then upon the advice of the Psycho Smurfs we went back to courrier. I recieved post marks from MN, IA, WI, ND, SD, MI. About 1988 we all got a notice from the Psycho types to stop all mail and phone calls until further notice. I didn't get anything for several months and didn't send anything. They concluded that we got ourselves into a very dangerous mode of thinking. All destroyed anything with dates, addresses, names and anything that could be tracked back to any one or others. That's because believe it or not---we became free thinkers--strange huh. Free thinking is very dangerous to any society except one, and that's proper Christianity. Now---I said proper or "real" Christianity, not the worlds idea of it. Being that all that got done years ago and all are retired there's no danger to us because----how do you find who's a Smurf with 10 million RV,er out there. Being I never had any of their full names all I can say is---Bob, Benny, or Mack Marine and there's 1.2 million or more Mack Marines. ---and none can be found through me. That's the way they set it up long before the study ended, which i didn't know they were doing at that time---I'm the fall guy---Patsy. I'm Fall Guy Smurf (apparently- I figured that out for myself).

 There was never a lead Smurf, or any arguments that I detected. We simply stumbled into something we only understood after we got so far. But once there you can't go back, we were trapped, and it'll be the same for any other who gets over the dumb hump (as we call it). After one contemplates this info there seems to be a hump that one falls over and ---pluff, everything starts to add up on it's own. One of my daughters pointed that out to me a few weeks back that it happened to her. I don't have to explain anything to her any more----she's telling me now---and all I can do is agree, or refine a point or two---but she knows. Her kids are grown up and she going to college now-----Sociology--what else, that's what proper Christianity is all about.

  I don't know what else I can say about the Guys. We're all scattered about-some are in CA, some AZ, others TX  or FL for the winter, and they head north again in the summer, like me. I got the idea from them.

History-- We learned a lot of history that was contrary to what I learned I high School. Back then Babylon was considered the first civilization, but according to biblicals Egypt was before Babylon. It would have been a lot easier if there were a Hebrew in the group but no such luck. Trying to understand the people of that time was a real chore.

 I'm more comfortable answering questions then writing off the cuff. I normally don't know where to start. Questions give me a start and peaks an interest. We've been at this for so long we don't worry much about it. A real problem we're having is that we aren't in your world much anymore and at times are disinterested in contemplating it.  At times we may seem a bit weird (I'm sure of that).

 Thought it was prudent to make sure I could add 'this'  (it is your unofficial unofficial Thread, you know):

   If you'll check out the date when this was posted; I had to ask about your impressions of Aussie naturally. I found it was interesting he has a expanded vocabulary of sorts by this impression of his:

((Re:: Aussie has some things you found interesting then ?))

  Aussie's statement said: 'This seems very similar to what Carl Jung said about books on alchemy. He claimed that they pretended to be about the attempt to turn base metals into gold, but that it was a secret symbolic language and what they really deal with is the attempt to find the psychological key which would enable them to convert their base nature into something positive. He linked this with the spiritual project engaged in by the gnostics of going within to find a transforming self-knowledge'.

  Which comes to us from the Middle-Ages, before Jung's fascination, the precise wording used by Alchemists was to: turn 'animal-man into divine being'.

Was Investigating Bon(Bonpo) distinctions, transl. Harischandra Kaviratna

 Their admonishment of  the Self — CANTO XII Pan¬Interreligious Bon Text transl.

  ________________

 157. - If a man esteems the self, let him guard himself with great care. Let the wise man keep vigil over himself, in one of the three watches (of life or of the night).

 158. - Let each first firmly establish himself in right conduct, then only may he admonish others. Such a wise man does not suffer blemish.

 159. - Let a man mold himself into what he admonishes others to be. Thus well-controlled he can control others. It is extremely difficult indeed to control one's own self.

 160. - The self is the master of the self. Who else can that master be? With the self fully subdued, one obtains the sublime refuge which is very difficult to achieve.

 161. - The sin committed by oneself, born of oneself, produced by oneself, crushes the evil-minded one as the diamond cuts the precious stone.

 162. - As the parasitic maluva creeper destroys the sal tree which it entwines, so the immoral conduct of a man gradually makes of him what his enemy would have him be.

 163. - It is quite easy to perform evil deeds which are not beneficial to oneself. But it is extremely difficult to perform a deed which is righteous and beneficial.

 164. - If an evil-minded one, by reason of his false views, reviles the teaching of the Arhats, the Noble Ones, and the virtuous, verily he brings forth the fruit of his own destruction, even as does the katthaka reed.

 165. - By self alone is evil done; by self alone is one defiled; by self alone is evil not done; by self alone is one purified. Purity and impurity depend on oneself; no one can purify another.

 166. - However much one is engaged in activities for the good of others, one should not neglect his own (spiritual) purpose. Having discerned one's own task, let him apply himself to that task with diligence.

  According to Bon religion, for one  :  a harmful friend (or teacher) is one of bad temperament, little pure vision, great in dogmatism; holds his own view as highest, praises himself, is deluded, and is denigrating [to] others -

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I did some looking over on the Bonpo religion. I took some time to recall conversations that we (the Smurfs) about the similarities of ancient religions.

If I recall we theorized that all ancient religions may have been formed from one and spread to other places. But even is so we stayed with the Bible as it was most familiar. If that idea were true then Adam may have been the first and then it spread to others, as there were people in many other places at the time of Adam. OR, Adam may be a derivative of some other.

  But what I've come to see on my own is that all seem to have fallen away from the main central understanding. We theorized initially that a true religion would have or need no props or material applications. In our understanding of Adam we can see that there would be no props or material additions required, such as , prayer wheels, bell ringing, humming, churches, or any superficial means. If there are such things the religion has never been true or there was a falling away from what was true. Adam was a true religion in  that there is no device or material application necessary to show "the self' as the self is of no material. Adam is an understanding and knowledge of the self so that means there is no applicable material form that can represent one's self. What was used by the Hebrews or later is the symbol of the fish which represented "soul". This is why the Hebrew religion allows no material representations of what they consider---"that which cannot be seen" which is one's own personal entity, as the entity wasn't originally seen as material.

 In looking over the Bonpo I see prayer wheels and such---BUT, the words that refer to person are true  or at least very similar to Adam,---so this means that at some point they fell away from a previous (possibly correct) belief system. What happens in a fall is the loss of the proper understanding of person gets lost and is replaced by material objects. The only possible correct religion would be "belief in the self". If one analyzes religions it's always people that run them and it's their decisions that make the religion.

  Belief in the "self" is removed and the religious leaders replace the person. No matter how it gets figured religion boils down to people/persons. S0, any God or religion outside the person would be a false religion----EVEN if it's run by others then a person them self.  From our understanding then---a religion run by individuals would have to be false---as they replace the true religion of "the self", that is, replacing the self with their self.  The reason is-- those who run a religion do so for their own gratifications, which skews the religion, because one is to run a religion for them self being that there is nothing to gain from one's self. The very fact that someone seeks superiority then would be operating a false religion. It cannot be any other way. All religions today have heads of operation---except one---The Smurfs.

  I was hoping you would get a chance to be able to express some more about your  own take on things, Old Seer wouldnt mind. And it would give you a chance to talk about some of the differences you have with mainstream christianity Opps Bite my tongue, I mean group A. :¬  People have opportunities to get to know more about others, and there has been a couple of threads where it was more of a conversation and less of a confrontation. One that was talking about the Old Testament very sadly has only recently died out. No Pressure :¬ It's in the hopes it can be less hostile as some might fear. With Old Seer I have had an opportunity to find out about her slant on things by Old Seer sharing. I certainly would like you also to know there are threads like this where you can share specific things that make you special & unique, with less of the  attitude that can arise within some. It can be difficult to find ways & find a place to express yourself, that holds in an individuals' life, and on a Online Forum, as well. If nothing else, it breaks the ice and you get to share also. (Tony Originally invited Old Seer here). Invitations are expressed to yourself too.

the worlds Psycho Dudes. But I know that there are many philosophies from many academics as to what's wrong with the world. I leave the Psycho things to the Psycho Smurfs, and what I know is a mere amount of cross training that takes place within any group. So, if I quote or claim something mental it may be I was told or making a guess, or something I definitely learned or understand.

You are correct, you are not a Christian (and neither am I) but from time to time you are and then again you're not. Everyone has Christianity, some use it more then others. Some are very close but not quite. You may have in your life encountered someone who said---I've never been a Christian. Don't take their word for it as they may not know what it is. The fact is---everyone is Christian almost every day (even the Muslims) when they are walking down the street and a little ole lady drops her groceries all over the side walk. So you scurry over and pick things up for her, which,  at that very moment you are being a Christian because you are doing what is naturally "Human". (Christianity and Human are the same thing) Then you proceed down the street encountering a Bum leaned against a tree and he asks you for a buck to get something to eat. You say--- *&^% go get a job. At that moment you are animal and your previous Christianity left the planet. Now that you know that you can become a Christian full time ----IF---- someone else,s world doesn't interferes with it and knock you back into being an animal because that's what the present world demands you be and rigged the situation in order to live here.

 So, after 20 years of living with this present idea someone in you bunch says---ta hell with this. Being we're all retired lets get at it. The Psycho Dudes say that it has to be done anyways before they kill each other off, and then we have to decide to let that happen or should we tell them. So, being gluttons for punishment we opted the hard way and everyone agreed that it would be the human thing (being we figured out what a human being is) to do---so let's tell them.

  Everything we know (we find out) has already been known long before we knew it by the masses in general but it's so scattered that it all needs to be put in one place. So- we don't know anything that hasn't already been known by someone somewhere. That is what we see after the fact.

 But, inadvertently we used a book where we found that someone had already put it all together, and said book and knowledge has been so skewed by the authorities no one can understand it because they got it 90% wrong. So after we got done with it we have it 90% right.

   You should go to The Old Seers Corner and read the OP so you have an understanding of who we are---and are not.

I don't understand.??

Re::  Hi Dana

   This might give a big hint   follow video link    Link,  Direct,   URL ::   http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CI3lST-qwA   { www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CI3lST-qwA}

I lost my password due to my complicator breaking down. It nomally would login automatically and the new one didn't. I couldn't find the password on my password book. I tries several times since your prvious posy on this forum but it wouldn't take. Something was probably wrong on the server--but today it went through. For a while there I thought I was banned but really didn't believe that one. Tuther Smufs sugested I give up on posting on Atheist sites as it turns out to be an argument going nowhere. I would check back here from time to time but for some reason I couldn;t get a new login. As sais--there must have been a glitch on the server. It was recomended that I make out a web page which I was reluctanr to do as I'm not a very computor astutish. But with a little practice I lernt how and found out was easier then suspected/expected.  https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

There's no email addy there as we're done arguing or getting slammed for inhumane reasons we let be as is and what others make of it isn't our business. Let any recipient do with it as is.   Now that I have a new passwrod I will be checking back daily as before.

Re:: Choices and improved quality of life; amidst  happy serendipities

  Life is full and chock-full of happy serendipities

  Message keeps getting clearer

    Well, There you are finally (big smile)..  As for you, I can honestly good to finally hear back from you OldSeer. Personally been a feeling of reassurance and relaxation following release from anxiety or distress w/  the  relative.

   I am having problems myself with new security restrictions on my Visa card  and  will be forcing me to put off any welcome or questions or a reply for a couple of more days. So, Check out the activity while we wait a couple of days on everything. Oh, To:: Old Seer   Hey, Welcome back to your unofficial thread Old Seer;  while I am forced to wait to get things up. 'Waiting' IS making life interesting I can tell you.  But we are to allow patience to have its' perfect work

  Please stand by while forced to wait on posting..

 Hey kids. I've been peeking in on the forum for quite some time now. Stayed quiet because nothing very interesting in the forum and nothing from me worth contributing. I'll do a little back-tracking here to see if I can catch up with you. 

 Hey kids. I've been peeking in on the forum for quite some time now. Stayed quiet because nothing very interesting in the forum and nothing from me worth contributing. I'll do a little back-tracking here to see if I can catch up with you. 

I've been gone for a while too. I didn't write my password down so when my machine broke down that auto looged in, the new one didn't. A glitch in the server wouldn,t give me a new one till tuther day. The Smurfs are doing OK, some in Florida, Mexico, Arizona, Southern and mid Califonia for the winter. I stayed here in Wisconsin this year--glad I did, as its been a pretty cold winter  at Qurarzsite AZ where I've been hanging out in past winters. I changed my yearly routine and will be staying North until  March from now on. Heating is to expensive at Quartzsite whilst here in Wi on the family property there's enough wood to heat free. Actually I'm warmer here then there. To save heat costs I just heat in the morning untill the sun takes over. It can get to +20 overnight there so it takes oodles of propane to be there. Heading forFloridato dumpoff grand son to be with his dad, and then on to AZ---unless it warms early here in WI.

What this is --is-- nature is in charge. What he's saying here is, the master (nature) does as the master will. We are all consructed by nature--or a product of nature amd under it's rule (universal law/construction). We all have to live by it's outcomes and results. All actions, good and evil have consequences, the price we pay for "being". The parable means--all recieve the same result of the endeavor. As the book states elsewhere--what happens to one happems to all. It's just that the same isn't happening to all at the same time. Whatever course one is on will result in the same consequences already encountered by another one the samwe coiurse previously. That's how propgesies are done---knowing a course of events or thinking will result in a predictable outcome.

That's why civilizations cannot be fixed--it's has to proceed on a previous course which cannot be altered--and --the same result will occurr because the mindset of civil discorse cannot be changed. There's no place other for it to end up. The promotiom and opererations of an animal mind results in the same outcome every time. It cannot be changed. While the animal mind is the of nature also, it then becomes necessary to comprehend that mental state -------and change it for a different outcome/result. The only thing to change it to is it's opposite (of which there is no other),"the human mind). The world is fooled by thuinking that different forms of government will work better then others--that's nonsense. Everyone of us personally is made up of all forms of governments. On a personal level one has to use these forms as they apply to a situation. In one--you have to be democratic, in another you have to be sociallistic, in another you have to mind your own as being a monach, in another youi mau have to be communal, or, applay allof these in life in different situations. To elecct individuals to preside over these personal natural traits is absolute fallacy. You need them all the be a part of your society. Civil governments preside over your nature and create it for their ideas. Then you are no longer natural--you are government made, and they say what is good and/or evil to the detrement of the people. You'll now notice thast the government in the US has reached it'sfinal goal--the rich/few over the many.

That is the design of it. No matter how it's rigged and constructed it will revert back to it's original purpose---a few over the many. There's no place else for it to go. And, from that point on it becomes evil upon evil--heading for the repeat of the time of Noah, and the flood was nothing more then--they killed each other off until only a few are left. --but this time--it'll be world over, not just a small region. The master does what the master will. If we're going the Ayn Rand syndrome of the survivasl of the fittest--there won't be any fittist left either. Civilization is a war against the universe--and mother nature will win it every time. We are part of the universe--so in fighting the universe we fight ourselves also