NO DOUBTS WHATSOEVER - YES NO MAYBE?
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A life of doubt is no fun - doubts doing, thinking or saying something - then doubts looking back on what's done. I've had the experience - I didn't like it. It's a dark jungle with no map road or reason - or too fast a game in real time. You realize if you admit it you're not necessarily getting anywhere - yet there's the clock, the shot clock, the referrees with whistles, people in stands with agendas, teammates depending on you - and people "coaching" (do your thinking for you). There's statisticians writing down "facts", many facts.
It's obvious you have to put your "confidence" (your faith) in something or somebody - yet who or what? You could put your faith in the statistitian - but statistics (though they ARE facts) don't play the game - they just sit there. You could put your "confidence" (your faith) in the coach - (which might be ok during the game - but what about the rest of the week?) You could put your faith in your teammates - a roll of the dice. That leaves you yourself - which leads to a lonely question: am I right or am I wrong? Doubts anybody?
I was never able to see myself as a source of answers. And, I never saw anybody else that could take you very far without spinning out either.
So for whatever reason I started reading and mining the Bible - and I started finding substance, treasure, jewels and answers from God. It enabled me to go through a "transformation" - a "dying", a "burial" in baptism in water - and a resurrection to a new life in the Light of Christ - along with the Gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit. In this Light I have been enabled to get to know myself before God (in the Presence of God), get to know other people in the Light of Christ, and get to know Christ and God. My faith is not in myself but in God and Jesus. My faith is not in my interpretation of the Word of God - but I know if I can understand it right - it's RIGHT. I have no doubts about God or Jesus whatsoever. They Know What They're doing and They Have all the Answers. I am living in the Presence of God (through faith in the promise and experience of it) 24/7. I don't know everything or anything compared to what there is to know - but I Know God, He Knows, and He can handle it. I can daily "die" to my view and "life" in God's ideas. It's a great trade.
So I report for work every day - take every thought captive and see if it matches up with respect to the Word of God. It's "work security" because we are hit by several thoughts as you know - however; just one at a time (me anyway). The way I see it - it's better to be "alert" than to be "strong" because I can pull little weeds (bad thoughts) and put out little fires (bad emotions) easily. It's not a life of doubts anymore - because I have a Standard, an Authority and a Reference to check these things out. Not only that but the Word of God is "Living and Active" and God and Jesus are "Alive in me" so this is not a matter of worshipping a non-living thing, a fact book - it's animated. I am able to meet life - with LIFE (the Life that is Life Indeed as Jesus said).
I wonder if you Atheists are able to know things for certain or not. If you are certain about the life you are living how did you get there - and how are you daily able to rise out of the jungle of doubts around you - maintain it? If you have hitched your life to a "star" or "stars" (an "expert) how can you be sure he or she is right? If you have faith in yourself - how do concrete answers come from that small world? If your faith and confidence is in "facts only" - how do you animate facts to constantly changing situations of life? Or, have you resigned yourselves to lives of doubt, having convinced yourselves there is nothing better? Have you accepted a life of doubt as the "new normal", resigned to it.
What hope and strength do you have to offer to the world to rise above a life of doubt? My answer is the Gospel of Jesus' death as the Lamb of God taking our sins upon Him on the cross, buried and Raised bodily. I am trusting in that Gospel of grace by faith plus nothing - no suplimental insurance. The Glory is all God's. The Power of the Gospel to deliver proves its genuiness - and I have experienced it first hand. It is certainly available to you all as well.
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It's hard to keep track of all the fables. There are so many of them. There are too many.
And yes.... the tantrum continues. Get over yourself.
Lying is a sin you know. If you were really 'saved' you wouldn't lie. You're a carbon copy of the average christian. Ironically, you'd better pray your god doesn't exist. Because if it does, you won't be making the list for heaven.
I don't have a faith. I have faith in some things yes, but not a faith. A faith is not faith, it's a religion. Faith itself is simply trust. With me, trust must be earned. The only way to earn my trust is to show you are trustworthy. As all theists who try to force their religion on others are blatant liars, they lost my trust before I was an adult.
Everyone's world view starts with themselves. You cannot have a world view without a self. You make this argument as if it is devastating, but it is only devastating to you. Noone in your religion with any education would agree with you. From priest to pope, every leader in your religion would acknowledge the fact that without some faith in yourself, you cannot have faith in anything. It is an absolute prerequisite.
Which is why you live in an imaginary world. lol
No you haven't. Name ten things you tested, how you tested them, what your expected results were, and what your actual results were.
You're lying again. Everyone has doubts regarding things they can't prove completely, and almost every definition of god falls into that category. I'm not confident there is no god. I'm confident your god doesn't exist, because your god is absolutely impossible. But a god is possible. I don't believe there is a god or gods, but the moment I see evidence for it I'll review my views.
That's where the theist always loses. The theist will never change his mind, never seek out or consider evidence against. The theist simply uses confirmation bias to fool himself.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
The meta-tantrum continued...
There are no theists on operating tables.
HAHAHA good one.
You know, you should be careful. Didn't your mom tell you not to make funny faces. They might get stuck that way and then you'll look really stupid.
Too late. lol
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
LOL
jesus (Lamb) warned us that we would be mocked for our Faith, so your "lol"s only prove that the Gospel (Word) is the Truth(christ).
There are no theists on operating tables.
Every time an LOL is posted, an angel earns its wings.
Oh gods I'm laughing so hard.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
..."like the crackling of thorns under the pot"...
Aw poor baby got destroyed so he's been reduced to nothing but attacks. The best part is he's cowardly enough to hide his attack in a quote from the shittiest book ever written, thereby making it the shittiest attack ever made. XD
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
It was a short lived laugh huh
Quite the opposite. Watching people make fools of themselves voluntarily is one of the most entertaining and hilarious activities one can partake in.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Hey Fonz,
So you believe in the god of Abraham?
Why do you believe in it?
And why does the Hindu neighbor believe in Vishnu? or why does the other neighbor believe in Wicca and the other neighbor believe in Islam?
I believe in the god (Spirit) of Abraham because he has proven himself to me through the gift of faith. The Bible (Light) warns us that there will be false prophets, but we must keep our faith with the true Lord (Water), just as God kept his covenant with Abraham through his Son (Lamb).
There are no theists on operating tables.
We gotta keep giving out those angel wings, lol.
Digitalbeachbum,
Actually I don't know the answer to that. When I started to read the Bible by myself out of desparation - being trapped in sin - I believed it from the start. I believed all of it and still do. Some things are beyond my understanding but I have total confidence (faith) in the God Who "Breathed" and "Inspired" those who wrote it. So I'm ok with Passages I can't understand because of the over-riding trust I have in the God Who Wrote It. Jesus is the focus of the whole Bible - the Old Testament points toward Jesus and gives glimpses of the mystery of the Gospel. The Gospel is revealed in the New Testament. I believed and received it because I have total confidence (faith) in Jesus. My experience has confirmed the Truth of the Gospel - that Jesus is Alive and Living in Me, also the Holy Spirit and God. I have been freed from the trap of sin and empowered in Christ to maintain and keep the fire of faith (my real confidence in Him) burning.
I have tried to read other books which claim to be a message from God - but they don't "smell" or "taste" right. They expose themselves to me as being fake. The New Testament says "the sheep know the Shepherd's Voice". That explains to me why these other books and religions don't "ring true" - so I'm confident they aren't.
As to the religion of Vastet - I have tried trusting in myself and other men, "experts". It didn't work. You could say I have the courage to face that fact and to say honestly, "there's nothing there" - it's "vanity of vanities". I could try to justify that false religion by lying to myself like some maybe do - but that doesn't work for me either. I had to admit there was nothing there.
You do have a point and a question. There are people for example who believe the world is flat in spite of photos from space. I don't know why they believe that - nor why those you mention believe in Vishnu or Wicca. But I don't believe in those fake gods nor am I threatened by those that do choose another god and a different book. I'm totally confident in the Word of God and the Living Word - Jesus. I have no doubts even in the face of death - which is more eminant for me than you realize.
The self deception is epic in scale. How can you trust your 'smell' and 'taste' or whatever for 'true christian' materials when you don't trust yourself or your own abilities to determine what is 'true christianity' in the first place?
You can't. You just described in perfect detail that YOUR faculties are what drew you to christianity, and your faith in YOURSELF is a prerequisite for your faith in your false god. It starts with you, and you just admitted it. Lmfao.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I believe in the Lottery of Birth. When you are born you are set in to a path which you can not control, but you can control your emotions.
I reached a point where I realized I could control the anger in me. If I didn't like something there was no reason to get angry, there was another way to handle things.
This process is no different than some one who fights all the time. They have no idea how to control the emotions they produce so they lash out at others rather than walking away or talking.
So you felt like you were trapped in sin. You had guilt. You needed a way out because you believed that your sin was punishable.
I too had a similar experience. I reached a point in my life where I thought I was sinning and I turned to the god my parents taught me and for a moment I thought it was gone, but it came back.
I asked myself. Did I screw up? Is god testing me? Why do I see others going through the same thing? People from other religions are experiencing the same problems, the same guilt.
I then asked, if they believe in different gods, then who is right and who is wrong? Why is my parents god any better than their god?
My parents couldn't prove their god, I was supposed to have faith in it.
However, those other people had faith in their gods too. How could they be right or wrong? It was confusing.
Then I had an epiphany.
What if every one was wrong? What if there were no gods.
That was the beginning for me of my new path in life.
A life with out gods. I started to take responsibility for my actions/emotions/experiences.
If I masturbated there wasn't some devil telling me to do it. There were logical reasons. Hormones and a natural attraction to women.
It was a sin if I continued believing in gods.
As I studied sciences I began to learn more about my environment and it slowly all came together.
It didn't happen over night. I've been working on this shit for over 32 years since I dropped all religions.
As the bible says, "taste and see the goodness of the Lord (Bread)". You can smell "the lillies of the field", or choke among the weeds on stony ground. True christianity is based on the Word and of christ (Truth).
There are no theists on operating tables.
There's another one lol
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Digitalbeachbum,
My experiment went different than that. After I saw the Word of God to be the Truth I could never let go even in the storms of life everybody faces. True - some days I didn't find the gold I was looking for but I was always still convinced it was there (It was and It IS).
I've found enough gold there in the Bible for me. Men go to a lot of effort and risk to get physical gold - it seems to require the same with spiritual gold: (WISDOM: which is God and Jesus). You have to hang on and not lose heart. After a while it gets easier.
LOL - I wonder what a LMAO does? group wings? or if LOL vs lol gives a different set of wings.
I believe the difference between you and I is that I questioned every thing. When I reached that point where you give up and believe in a god, I asked, Why?
It isn't logical to believe in one religion. Either all gods are real and almighty, all knowing, all encompassing OR none of them are real and none of them have ever existed.
I asked "why Christianity?", why not Hinduism?" Why am I here in this city, with these people, this family. Where did these atoms come from? Who did those atoms once belong to? How many stars did they once pass through?
And pardon me for saying this, but I believe you have to basically give up and say "I can't handle it" or "I can't figure it out", before you actually believe in a god.
It is 100% irrational to believe in a god and this coming from a guy who is an atheist and believes in reincarnation.
Digitalbeachbum,
I questioned everything too. I found at one point I had a misplaced anger - an unresolved thing with a close family member I blamed for problems. When I resolved that other things I was angry about mysteriously evaporated.
I agree it's not logical to believe in religion (I don't) - i.e., trust in things you do, ceremony, checklists, going through somebody's little wicket. I think if I could get across the difference in Christianity and what you view as "religion" - that would represent progress.
I view trust in religion in the same realm as an Atheist saying "I trust in facts". Facts are dead things, often boring that lay flat on the page and don't animate. It's the same with trusting in religion, doing works, ceremonies, stand up, sit down, wave - it's flat and it's misery. What you need is LIFE - to face life. Jesus was Raised never to die again. When we are "born anew" into Jesus, we "put on" "the Righteousness of God" - like a garment-gift He gives us because of our faith in Him. "He who through faith is righteous shall live" (you can find that about 3 - 4 places in the Word of God - it's the basic principle by which God give us His Righteousness. This is totally different than a dead religion. The Object of our faith and confidence is LIVING in us in the form of the Spirit of Christ - and the Living Word of God (the miraculous Scriptures). Also we get the "Gift of the Holy Spirit" by faith in Jesus when we are "born anew". I don't know how that "app" gets installed but I don't have to know - God Knows and Does it.
And I disagree on a point you made - it's much better to be honest and realize you CAN'T figure everything out. For example I haven't found an Atheist yet that will lay out things he/she is SURE OF (after x amount of time). They try to throw things out they can't prove as if they are sure of them and everybody is supposed to just accept them as provable fact - like "I'd make a better god than the Real God" "you're crazy (not proven - I have papers)" - all things that don't represent proveable facts yet they claim. So I haven't found the Atheist to be the courageous honest self-confronting types. They mistake throwing arrows, firebrands and death at Heavenly things - treating Heavenly things common and blaspheming the Loving and Merciful God and King of Kings to represent courage. When God Who is Merciful doesn't strike with lightning they strut like they own the world. When I point it out they don't have the courage to face the missing cards in their deck - they just want to be more profane and ridiculous not reason or discuss or understand.
The things I know - I know because of the confidence I have in Jesus Christ Who is Truth and God and God's Word. These things all prove to be true when rightly understood and they're not changing. So it's efficient to submit to the Word of God as the Solid Rock It IS. God in us represents an Indestructible Life greater than "he who is in the world" - so as far as the situations of life we can say successfully "game on"!
You haven't questioned why you believe in your god rather than a god of hindu or some other belief. The reason why you believe what you believe is because of the lottery of birth. It's random. If you were born in India you would most likely be Hindu. If you parents are Hindu, you will most likely be Hindu. It's all an issue of chance.
If you believe in a god you believe in a religion. It might not be the organized religion we see in society, but rather a more personal religion. If you pray, you are in a religion. If you have routines, you are in a religion.
There is a different between truth and facts. Any one can make up facts. I can fabricate facts to fit my needs. However, truth is under scruitny from all perspectives. 2+2=4 is a proof which is undeniable. The idea that your savior walked this Earth is disputable. The idea that your god created this world is disputable.
You can not discount other religions unless you discount your own. If you say that your belief is real, fact and truth, then all beliefs are real, fact and truth. Either all gods are real, fact and truth OR all gods are fake, falsehoods and lies.
You aren't honest with yourself when you say "I can't figure every thing out" because you haven't tried every thing yet. Yes, there are things which you might not understand and you might not solve, but some one else will do the math and solve it. You can then examine their evidence and test it.
I am an atheist who can answer those questions. Go ahead and challenge me. I'll be honest. I'll tell you what I know, what I do not know and that I do not carry faith for those things which are not real.
Digitalbeachbum,
I don't have any question or doubts about the God of Abraham and Jesus and the Holy Spirit - the I AM. I honestly don't have any questions about God. I'm totally confident in the answers I get from the Word of God and the experience which confirms the Truth of It.
I don't agree that if I believe in the God of Abraham that I believe in a religion. This is a principle you don't understand the same way I do. The Righteousness of God is an undeserved gift to be received by faith in Jesus Christ plus NOTHING. God does all the work of saving. All He asks of me is real faith in Him. Real faith will result in change of life and actions. But "religion" is a wage - earnining thing which is a easy thing to fall for and outsiders to have false impressions about what Christianity is like, reject those false impressions and think they have rejected what they understand when they don't.
As to "what ifs" - I'm responsible for the lot I've been dealt. In the end all God's Judgment will be seen to be right by all. I don't have to answer questions about why I was born here rather than India. It would be tough to be God and have to know all those things - I'm glad I don't have that problem or the desire to have it.
We are communicating from two different worlds. Starting at "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..." - I go one way, you go another. You are communicating your unbelief clear enough. I believe all the Bible and also that Jesus is Alive and living in those who believe in Him.
Your concepts and faith in whatever - mean as little to me as mine do to you. Your assessment of my honesty has as much weight to me as my assessment of yours. I am as likely to think you have answers as you to think I have answers for you.
The LORD said that He would send The Comforter (The Holy Spirit) Who would convict the world of sin because it has not believed in Me. So unbelief is a sin. Only God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit can convict you of that and enable you to discern it. The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God for they are folly to him and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. It's a foreign world to you with this unbelief.
By definition you have a belief in a religion.
You do not challenge your myths so you are ignorant.
Your belief, while understanablely exists because of your pre-existing condition, is one of billions. You are no better than the billion Hindus who believe in their gods or the thirty people who follow a cult in Oregon.
Either all gods exist or no gods exist, there can not be one.
Wing upgrades!
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
There are no theists on operating tables.
You are offically marked as a Brian37 3rd Class
If you are really good, one day you'll get your wings.
truth idea you have. Truth of what? I don't particularly care to get in on this conversation but could you explain that.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
It would help if you directed the question to someone
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
I think maybe I broke him.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I don't understand what the question is
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
I'm waiting for a response to "Either all the gods exist or none of them exist" but I'm not sure I should be expecting a response.
Digitalbeachbum,
Sure, I'll answer you from a "God breathed" source that I believe but you don't. Isaiah 45.5 ~ there is One GOD
As I said I don't buy your premise or position or credibiity in your unbelief.
You are illogical. You can not give creedence to your god and deny others the same consideration. Their faith is just as your faith is, it exists, so must their god.
"But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."
There are no theists on operating tables.
LOL - Ding
LMAO - DING!
LMFAO - DING DONG!
LMFAOOL - SPLOOSH!!!!!
Damn, you love giving out wings!
He must have a stockpile. XD
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
All gods are real or they are all false. There can not be just one god.
Digitalbeachbum,
Ok this is something you - atheist - are evidently sure of? So this is one of these anchors of atheist living - a lighthouse in the storm, a immovable and unshakable principle you live by?
How is it that you know this is true without a doubt and how do you apply it? (other than posting it)
There are no theists on operating tables.
Any religion which lays claim to having all the facts and proof, doesn't have any thing special to keep a foothold in reality.
All religions lay claim to having all the facts and proof. They all claim to have the god(s) and how the Universe was created and how their god(s) control, created and can destroy.
They are all the same. You have nothing special to offer. What? Life forever? Been there, done that. Your religion isn't the only one to offer that false prize.
Digitalbeachbum,
So your answer to the question: (how do you prove this is "fact" and how do you apply it?) is simply to throw out more unproven statements - as if I am to just accept what you say as fact because you say them and they sound reasonable and good to you since they are supported by more things that sound good to you? You haven't proven anything nor shown how you apply any of this to everyday life!
And these are not facts! They may be things you want to be true or think are true or have faith in, believe or just have thought up - but that doesn't make them true or prove them true. This illustrates how you atheists who claim to be living and breathing examples of living by solid facts are just deceiving yourselves. I believe you are sincere saying this - but I don't share the faith you need to have in yourself to just blindly accept them (which is what this actually is: self faith not facts)
I'm not going to argue your faith. It is your faith and you can have it. However, your faith is all you have just like people who are Hindu, Jewish or Muslim. It doesn't matter what god you believe to be true, they are all the same, they are all based on faith, they all have the same amount of "evidence". None of them have a leg up on the others. They are all real or they are all false.
Digitalbeachbum,
I've not ask you to argue my faith but to admit your statements are not proven facts < > but originate in your faith (and whatever your faith is in). You evidently can't prove your statements - you can only support your statements with more of the same. You are not living by facts as atheists like to claim - but your faith. The only application (of what you are sure of) I have seen so far is your challenge to my faith (by your faith) - my faith which is in JESUS CHRIST THE LIVING WORD OF GOD and KING OF KINGS, and the SCRIPTURES: THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD. So it's simply faith against faith.