umm actually islam is fought against here, but obviously you haven't bothered to check, second, you obviously can't read, you should have posted this in either atheists vs theists, general converstions, or kill them with kindness.

    Next many here have read the bible and know it probably far better than you, including myself (although i have never believed in my life in the bible, the quran or the torah, all which i have read and studied). Also umm check christianities history of hatred, racisim, sexism and murder. 

Third, hip hop is not a religion, it's music genre to which many many many artists fall under, ever listen to Lupe Fiasco? K-os? Rascals? Swollem Members? Kanye West? There are many many artists in the hip hop community that don't sing about the white man being inferior (which is bullshit statement anyways since "white man being inferior" is not a major theme in the hip hop community) Judasim is attacked, buddhism, well actually any religion based on the fallacy that there is some type of god or has religious dogma that requires blind faith to follow is attacked, dismantalled and shown it's errors.

    Christianity however happens to be the one that the majority of people here live with, as a society. Most are from Western countries, as such the majority is christianity, the majority of theists are christians that come in here, not to many islamics or jews that I am aware of, as such yes christianity get the majority of the attacks becauses many of us are affected by the decisions made by christians in our society. Got that yet?

    So yeah lets get it all right here, many (but not all) have read the bible, many are former believers (not myself I never believed from the get go) many understand the bible far better than you. All religions are attacked, Hip hop is not a religion, and you cannot read and should go back to school or a community centre and learn again.

ok...this is why i don't believe you.  you see look at the history of christianity's hate, murder etc.  How far back did you look?  The early church, the first christians did non of that.  THEY were the one's persecuted, THEY were the ones killed, etc.  The christianity YOU are talking about didn't exist until the gentiles PAGANIZED christianity in the 3rd and 4th centuries.  

Also hip-hop IS more than a musical styling, it IS a religion, you need to do your homework.

KRS-ONE said:
"In Hip-Hop there are no gods or goddesses. We are the gods and goddesses. We say to each other, "peace god, peace goddess." This concept has been lent to us by the 5% nation of gods and earths. Be God, stop worshipping God. Be God. If your religion is Islam, eliminate the distance, stop worshipping Allah, and , be Allah. If your religion is Judaism, stop studying the 5 books of Moses. Be the law. Be Moses. If you are Christian stop worhipping Jesus Christ and calling his name out. Be Jesus Christ. Be Buddha. Be Krishna."

I was completely shocked when i saw that. stop worshipping Jesus? Stop calling on His name? how can anybody say that this music isn't the devil!!!!!

He mentioned the 5% Nation of Gods and Earths. This is their beliefs:
1. That black people are the original people of the planet earth.
2. That black people are the fathers and mothers of civilization
3. That science of Supreme Mathematics is the key to understanding man's relationship to the universe.
4. Islam is a natural way of life, not a religion.
5. That education should be fashioned to enable us to be self sufficient as a people.
6. That each one should teach one according to their knowledge.
7. That the blackman is god and his proper name is ALLAH. Arm, Leg, Leg, Arm, Head.
8. That our children are our link to the future and they must be nutured, respected, loved, protected, and educated. (ok, nothing wrong with that ).
9. That the unified black family is the vital building block of the nation.

some people that practice this religion are Erykah Badu, Alicia Keys, Jill Scott, The Fugees, Nas, the Roots, Wu-Tang Clan, Common, and A Tribe Called Quest(whom are orthodox muslims)

De'Angelo-
" I am using the word "Artist" loosely. I personally believe in art as it exist in the context of the phrase "Thou art God." In This phrase, Art is the word that connects the individual(thou) to their higher self (God) or to that which is universal. We have come adorned in the apparel of the anointed. Leather and feathers, jeans and t-shirts, linen and cashmere, and even polyester. We have come to seduce and serenade the night and the powers of darkness. We speak of darkness, not as ignorance, but as the unknown and the mysteries of the unseen."
 

Yeah, they were called Jews.

Never mind, I can't read today.

Prove religion is true you deluded ignorant fool. 

Um, you did when you said Christianity is based on truth.  You are implying equivocation of Christianity with "truth" when you say  "based on".

 

sorry bad choice of words.  im not talking about "religion" im talking about Jesus. Spirit AND Truth.  

Sometimes when I'm on the keyboard, I have RnB/hip hop style ideas coming and I play them because I think they sound good and they make me feel well. I also like jazz and metal.

 Would you consider me religious, JLY ? 

 

You misunderstand what i am saying.  You can look this stuff up.  Afrika Bambaata, back in the 1970's went to Africa and learned the teachings of the Amazulu, along with the beliefs of Pharoah.  He formed the Zulu Nation, and a culture called "hip-hop", which he made an organized religion as well.  The basis of this religion is centering around the black man, proclaiming godship authority (you can find this also by analyzing alot of song lyrics for example "the anthem" by Jay-Z.  They also got influenced by 5% nation of gods and earths, who's beliefs i've shown earlier.   These beliefs haven't changed, but are the same as they were 30 years ago.  TRUE Christianity is not like that...the Christianity you fight is the latter formed roman paganized Christianity, which is not the Christianity of the Bible.  Stop fighting what it good, and help me fight what is evil, such as hip-hop.

Whatever you think about Hip Hop.. let me assure you, it's no religion, but anyways...

 

Here is why the homophobic and misogynistic Christian religion can kiss my ass and go fuck itself. And yes, Islam can go fuck itself to.

 

Even though I was born in a very liberal, religious less and very open part of the world. My mom, was not. I was raised by a Jesus fucking freak mother who made me attend every single thing that the church had planned for me. I was brought up to be servile, feel guilty and hate gay people because they are : Abominations that god despises so much he nuked an entire city because some folk over there were fucking themselves up the ass.

 

Yes Jebus is all about love and forgiving and honesty and the golden rule and blablabla...

 

- Guess what mom ! I am a lesbian !

 

So she replied :

 

- You realize that you make me have to choose between you or God ? Of course I am going to choose God !

 

I haven't seen her in 4 years now. Have she not been religious I would still have a mother. Thanks to your hateful church I am now motherless so don't come preaching to me about the vertus and love of your intolerant church.

 

God should have added an 11th commandment : Thou shalt honor your children.

 

 

Just because some five percenters are into hip hop doesn't make hip hop a religion nor does it mean that everyone who listens to hip hop is a five percenter.

Ok hip hop is used by 5 percenters.....that makes hip hop a religion? Kanye West is a christian (listen to Jesus walks) does that make hip hop now christian and religious? How about Mohammad walks by lupe fiasco does that make it islamic and religious? How about ALL THE other white hip hop artists, they against the whiteys? How about all the non 5 percenters? I mean serious do you have any clue about the origins of hip hop?

    Let me educate you and blast away your ignorance. Hip hop origins start from Rap, and from the bronx, Rap if you all know came from Jamaica, which was introduced to the states by Clive Campbell aka Kool Herc, who was born and raised in Jamaica, now there they called it toasting, it changed to rap in the US, now the major introducer to the term coined as hip hop is from Keith Cowboy and DJ hollywood of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five (we are still talking the 70's here ok), who it is believed that Cowboy created the term while teasing a friend who had just joined the US Army, by scat singing the words "hip/hop/hip/hop" in a way that mimicked the rhythmic cadence of marching soldiers, Cowboy later worked the "hip hop" cadence into a part of his stage performance, which was quickly copied by other artists; for example the opening of the song "Rapper's Delight" by The SugarHill Gang. Now so far we have Jamaican influence, Bronx black and lation influences, we have a whole culture of influence, but no 5 percenters yet, they don't even enter the scene till the mid 80's, so far we are still in the 70's. Now hip hop is further defined in 83 when Afrika Bambaataa and the Soulsonic Force released a track called Planet Rock. Also part of the Hip hop culture at the time was BreakDancing, Graffitti art, and rapping. Now hip hop turned for a worse in the 90's thanks in part to the rise of Gangster rap, some of the greatest artists of hip hop are christians, Run DMC (christians) LL Cool J (christian), plus all the other ones I have mentioned, the 5 percenters are few, Erykah Badu, Busta Ryme, Wu Tang Clan, Rakim are probably the biggest names. But Hip hop as a religion I am sorry your an idiot for that statement, it's a culture and music genre, but it ain't turning people to believe blindly in the 5 percenters dogma.

    There is a HUGE gap in your knowledge, and yes I do know of the 5 percenters, they are just as daft as christians, except they haven't come down stating that I have to live their way, nor have they threaten me with death....not yet anyways. However your knowledge of christianity (again attacking christianty is attacking that religion, i can attack jesus/god separately), and hip hop is fucking huge, get an education please. Your Ignorance is blinding. 

 

This verse you have given me, you have shown a level of misunderstanding.  You are not looking at the context. What was the law? the law was PROPHETIC of Christ.  When Christ came he FULFILLED those prophesies.  When a prophesy has been fulfilled it cannot be fulfilled again, therefore it is no longer valid. THATS what that verse means. 

Now do what i asked and find me somewhere in the Bible, where Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, or any other epistle writer condones "hate, kill, destroy, etc." and please take things in context this time.   

Why don't you shut up until you have done the proper inquiry, you shallow-minded idiot: 

Islam

 

That bare assertion can be reversed to find why one would attack Christianity. Add a negative prefix in front of truth.

Well, in principle all forms of religion are attacked. However, being that the bulk of the membership is from the United States, where Christianity is the dominant virus (as opposed to, say, Iran, where Islam is the dominant virus) it is understable that the bulk of their efforts would be against Christianity. Now, I, being in Hong Kong, am much more concerned with whatever religion is going to affect me most. Since religion is spat upon here, only the religion with far reaching global ability to induce misery would be a serious concern to me. Christianity has this capacity. But today it is much more Islam.

I quite assure I do. In one form or another, I've been debating theism for 17 years. It is a philosophically incoherent system. 

Even when I'm joking around I'm still right. I am so awesome!

It's long been a tenet of Internet debates that 99 times out of 100, the only people who benefit, if any, from them are the fence-sitting lurkers. 

One could also make the argument that debating, even against an opponent who is dumber than shit, helps to refine your arguments and the manner in which they are presented. When you're dealing with idiots, you soon realize that if you want your points to sink in at all, you have to learn to whittle down dense tomes full of technical jargon into clear and concise points that anybody could understand. It's a good talent to learn, and you might as well practice against a dummy before you go against real opponents.

I think one of the reasons creationists went onto the list is not because they're too stupid to debate with but because there's not really any benefit to myself. It's always the same arguments from them, so there's no real way to refine my arguments anymore without whittling them down into "You fucking idiot." If a creationist came here with a new (or at least uncommon) argument, I'd probably be happy to discuss it with them, so I could learn to rebut a new argument. But creationists so rarely bring up anything I've never read a couple dozen times before.

What a wonderful trick. If the word that Jesus used causes a problem, just change the word! Jesus didn't mean "law," he meant "prophecy." Of course! It's so obvious! How could I have been so foolish as to read the actual words that were written on the page?

The problem with this approach is that you are now claiming a greater proficiency in translating Hebrew and a greater level of theological knowledge than the people who translated the KJV Bible. Based on what you've posted here so far, I'd bet a great deal of money that you have neither.

In the KJV, Jesus says that he's there to fulfill the law, not a prophecy. The word prophecy is used many times in the KJV and by Jesus himself, so there's no reason why he couldn't have used it there if he wanted to.

Furthermore, Jesus also makes the point of saying that he's not there to "destroy" the law. Now if his arrival meant that the old law of the OT wasn't going to apply to Jews any more, the only people who it ever applied to, how would that not be destroying it?

It's quite clear that Jesus is reassuring his listeners that every "jot and tittle" of the old laws still apply.

I opened my NT randomly and here is what I read:

Corinthians 5:1-5 It is actually reported that there is a sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among the pagans: a man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgement on the one who did this, just as if I were present. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

What a poisonous bit of hate-filled polemic! First we are greeted with the insidious idea that there is such a thing as "sexual immorality," an idea that has poisoned the minds and ruined the lives of countless millions of people ever since.

Then we get a dash of religious intolerance, as the pagans are mentioned with contempt.

Then the crime is named: sleeping with your father's wife. Note that Paul doesn't say "your mother." So the crime isn't really about incest, but rather the fanatical Judeo-Christian marriage customs. If your mother died and your father remarried, then died, you would be equally condemned for sleeping with his widow!

Paul moves on to marvel that the Corinthians could find it in their hearts to tolerate such a person, prescribing instead that he be despised and ostracised. Wait a minute, I thought Christians were supposed to be the ones filled with love and mercy! 

Next we learn that Paul need not even be present in order to pronounce judgement on sinners - a revolting perversion of justice.

Finally we arrive at the recommendation: to "give this man to Satan." There can be no other interpretation of this than as an exhortation to kill and, worse, to kill in the full expectation that the victim will be tortured eternally.

In light of all that has gone before, the final mention of saving the victim's spirit can only be viewed as a particularly putrid bit of hypocrisy.

Let's see you try to spin your way out of this, JLY, before I take another five minutes and find another NT passage encouraging Christians to hate and kill.

 

 Racism isssues huh?

 

You make a interesting argument...

You make the statement "The christianity YOU are talking about didn't exist until the gentiles PAGANIZED christianity in the 3rd and 4th centuries."

So .. If this is true you admit that the Christianity of today is a bastardized, intolerant, hatefull, version of its original self. ?? Right ?? This is from your own words.. If not .. Can you Cite exactly when it stopped being a pagan religion ? ? ? ? ?

Realy.. You say this.. And yet you ask us why we "Attack Christianity" Isn't it obvious ? We "Attack" It because it is exactly what you say it is .. "PAGANIZED" etc.. Among many many other reasons.

You sir just called Christianity a pagan religion. You may not realize this but you did.

 

Also hip-hop IS more than a musical styling, it IS a religion, you need to do your homework.

Yea..... Ok Music is a religion.... Um.. And the moon is made of cheese (Both your statement here and mine are equally valid.. Errr cough)

I was completely shocked when i saw that. stop worshipping Jesus? Stop calling on His name? how can anybody say that this music isn't the devil!!!!!

Easy.... 1. The devil doesn't exist . 2. No proof of the devil or god. .

You seem to shock easy mate.. Personally what shocks me more then music like this is What the bible says you should do to a rape victim. = Execution....

Also what shocks me even more then that is organized religions blatant cover ups/downplaying/assistance/protection from prosecution/ of their priests molesting children.... That sir shocks me a hell of a lot more then any lyrics in a song i have ever heard.

EDIT!!!!!

"the Christianity you fight is the latter formed roman paganized Christianity, which is not the Christianity of the Bible."

Lol......Ok... The "Christianity" we fight is the latter formed roman paganized version.. Lol...... Hold that thought a second ill come back to it. Then you say.. It is not the Christianity of the bible..

Wow...... You really really have no clue who wrote and dictated what went into the bible.

1. translations and editing by at least 150 people

2. In 1604, King James of England called a conference at Hampton Court. In attendance were 47 scholars and clerics. The agenda was to organize the production of a bible that would satisfy the needs of all -- the clergy, the king, the common man. An ambitious goal, considering the widely disparate points of view each with a political investment.

3. The earliest parts of the bible have been attributed not to Jesus or Christians. But to common laws that were in effect for hundred of years before the so called jesus ever supposedly existed.

 

A note on number 2.. The king james version of the bible is what is used by the majority of people today. (As far as i am aware of). How nice that a KING and 47 other people got into a group and DECIDED what went into the bible and what did not go into the bible.

how... quaint....

 

All of this.. Is still the "Christianity" you represent.. The good..the bad and the exceedingly ugly..  

 (Feal free to replace represent with defending)

 

Source........ http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm 

 

 

Spoken by a truely ignorant person who hasnt spent any time here at all. You really think the world centers around Jesus? Or is it that you are frustrated that the world's population of 6 billion dont all follow your god.

"Question with boldness even the existance of God, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear", Thomas Jefferson. Who also BTW equated the birth and death of Jesus to being in the same catigory as Minervia being born out of the brain of Jupiter.

What the members here are doing is challenging people to think for themselves without superstion. We are challenging them to think without a hand up their backs. Christianity is what most here deal with on a daily basis, but we dont give any superstion of any label of any religion a pass. If it sounds like fiction, it is fiction.

We treat claims of Allah picking the sex of the baby the same as ghosts knocking up girls and human flesh surviving rigor mortis the same as claims of multiple armed dieties. Fiction is fiction and if you want to understand why we call the Christian god fiction, we can help you understand.

But please do not be so delluded or jaded as to think that Jesus is special to us. We dont hate your fictional Jesus any more than we hate Harry Potter or Lex Luthor. We do hate, however, bad reasons, and bad logic that people use to justify absurd claims, not just your religion.

If you dont want any help understanding why we reject your god like all others, then we cant help you. But do not come in herr and hurl unfounded ignorant accusations about people you dont personally know.

We are perfectly capable of morality and goodness. We are capable of loving theists without liking the claims they make. We want to help humanity outgrow it's false need for Santa for adults. We dont think humanity needs Allah, or Yahwey or Vishnu or Jesus.

If you dont want our help, we cant help you. But do not accuse us of things we are not doing. 

It's really quite simple. There is no such thing as atheism.
Everyone claiming it (including myself, for a time) is, in fact, an antitheist.
They are not neutral to it, apathetic to it, or anyone else which would allow them to approach it with the same level of compassion, openmindedness, and consideration that they might give other ideas in life.
One need only watch RRS on ABC to understand this.
There is nothing "rational" about it. Rationality doesn't need to misrepresent or caricaturize others' beliefs, in order to win a debate or get a laugh.
That is antagonism.  {MOD EDIT: Formatting.} 

Just because you disagree does not mean you're right, and just because you don't like a concept does not mean it's wrong. Yes, some people here may in fact be antitheist, but to assert that atheism does not exist is useless.

Category error: one cannot be compassionate or considerate to an idea. Compassion and consideration are reserved for people; ideas do not have feelings which may need to be considered, and are incapable of being in situations which may benefit from compassion. Separating your ego from your arguments will serve you well.

Openminded does not imply persuadable. We ARE open-minded; it's just that the arguments for religion are invalid, so we do not believe. We will, however, listen to any argument you care to articulate. Don't expect an easy ride, however; taken together, I don't think there are any pro-religion arguments the members of this site have not heard.

I would agree with you that misrepresenting a position is not a good counter-argument; as a matter of fact, it's a fallacy to do so. Which of your beliefs do you feel are misrepresented by people here? Going by your posts I assume you are Jewish; what parts of Judaism do you feel have been straw manned?

Can you explain how antagonism invalidates an argument? Why does saying "Your argument is horrible for reasons X, Y and Z, and you are ignorant for using it" invalidate the reasons X, Y and Z given that those reasons are logical? I admit that "ignorant" can be a loaded word, but why do valid reasons get dismissed just because you don't want to hear them or don't feel sufficiently respected by the response?

Hmm, I think I just answered my own question there.

Ridicule is a great tool for shedding light on bad ideas. As someone here once said, "if you don't want to be laughed at, don't hold laughable beliefs."

So my request: start a thread and state your beliefs, especially the beliefs you feel we have mischaracterized. We will then tell you why we do not believe them.

As an aside, mobius thought may be a perfect description of theology: reason that goes in a loop, turning back on itself. You can't get there from anywhere else, and you can't get anywhere else from there. I like it.

Hmmm... nope, I think I need to disagree here. I just don't care. It's something that's impossible to prove or disprove in either direction, so really, it's nothing more than an interesting mental exercize. If you've got some new thoughts for me to give consideration to, I'd love to hear it. 

Now, see, that's just ridiculous. There are far more people here than those who've presented their opinions on television, and if you ask any ten of us, you'll probably get at least eight-to-fifteen opinions. 

Then why are you? 

Or humor, but usually the humor involved is also partly poking fun at ourselves. After all, we're all human, we're all capable of latching onto beliefs without definitive proof, and we're all capable of (and indeed, almost certainly have) stubbornly refusing to admit when we're wrong.

 

Hmm do I supposed to be amused by this or depressed ? Well the problem is you have no self reflection all religions proclaim to be "The only true religion !" while the rest is made up by their version of evil unicorns or something.

besides to amuse the RRS and give you a understanding of reality I quote this satire ( http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Allah:_The_Annotated_Version )

"In recent years the outrageous anti-Christian jihad has only grown in intensity. The aggressiveness of this "holy war" is characteristic of the religion that spawned it. The ultimate aim of the jihad is to invade every land in the world, destroy all traces of Christianity, make these places into bastions of Islamism and Allah-worship, and then to spread their lies even farther. There is no room for tolerance or coexistence in the religion of Islamism.

Genocide is the only way for them to seed the world with their evil. Their warlike and intolerant god commands it.

The only way for righteous followers of the Lord to protect themselves is to stop the scourge of Islamism at its source. The ultimate aim of our crusade must be to invade every land in the world, destroy all traces of the Islamistism, make these places into bastions of Christianity and Jesus-worship, and then to spread the Word of God even farther. There is no room for tolerance or coexistence with the religion of Islamism.
Genocide is the only way to cleanse the world of their evil. Our peaceful and tolerant God commands it.
Amen. "

 

 

Don’t type in all caps. And get some self reflection or read this article to get a better understanding of your beliefs http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Allah:_The_Annotated_Version .

Your post doesn't seem to be in response to anything.

Atheism regards belief, not approval. An atheist can be against theism, or counter-intuitively, for it. They just can't believe in it.

Neutrality isn't required, but a person neutral to theism (even if only because they're ignorant of it) would still be an atheist.

You're jumping around now... again, none of this affects the definition of "atheism."

 

Psshh... No true hip-hop fan could EVER disparage KRS-One this way. He is in the uppermost echelon of MC's of all TIME. A level, IMO, populated only by himself, Mos Def, and Tupac (Some would disagree on that last one).

 

I mean, Human Education Against Lies? The Temple of Hip-Hop? "Self-destruction don't pay the *#@%ing rent!" ? He was, to my recollection, the FIRST one to be called a "Conscious rapper." He took the original 4 elements of hip-hop, and turned it into 9 elements, which incorporated not only a sense of street ethics, but also of responsibility, self-reliance, independence, and entrepeneurialsim.

 He's the freaking KING. He doesn't NEED to make records anymore. His name lives forEVER, in the legacy that he's left us.