I heard about you in Church, this is messed up.
Offline YOU RESPOND:
----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: jesus
Date: Feb 12, 2007 2:48 AM
hey guys this is brianna & karli.!
we heard about what you are doing today in Church!! and we think its really messed up. for many reasons..! the first reason is that Christiantiy is not forced on alot of people..and it is not mental torcher..! so where ever you guys got that is lame!
for the second reason if you clearly read that verse in the bible you can understand it more..! see Jesussaid that cause the farisies we mad at him for hanging out with people that are non christains (like you!) they said it was unholy. then he said those words! that you have taken out of context! and now making people denying him! and the thrid reason is (mostly a question) what if these people that are denying him decide one day that they want to go to heaven (cuz lets face it its way better than hell) and they want to exept him but they cant cuz you told them they are going to hell...! so in the end if the people do turn around you are resonsable for them going to hell when they could have so much more in heaven with our Lord Jesus Christ!!!!
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We are not making people deny the holy spirit. It is entirely voluntary.
Learn to spell. Just because we are on a forum does not mean you can spell torture as torcher, or accept as except
Jesus was Jewish, he never intended to create a breakaway sect. He was executed for blasphemy
Please offer some proof that heaven and hell exist. And don't use the bible, because it was compiled 2000 years ago over nine centuries by random people unknown to each other and us. It is an incredibly untrustworthy source. The idea of heavan and hell is a purely human fallacy with no grounds in reality whatsoever.
When we told people they were going to hell, we meant it as a joke and they understood that. Hell does not exist.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
I wonder if them telling people about this site in church could backfire - maybe some people who have doubts will look here and decide Christianity is a load of shit.
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All I have to do is look at society. You don't have to get that from anywhere. The concept of hell is very real to a seven year old child who isn't old enough to think for himself yet. I think it's mental and psychological abuse to raise a child and to discourage it from independent thought, to brand it into a religion. Everyone, especially children, need to be able to examine different perspectives and positions. We need to be able to question, not be dominated by fear. I'm letting my children make up their own mind if I decide to have or adopt some. The doctrine of Christianity either misrepresents reason or makes an explicit attack on reason. Only then can the doors for faith be opened.
I'll let others refute the claims you made about the bible...
Well, there are valid questions to ask regarding your proposition.
Would heaven be better if you knew that there are other loved ones suffering in hell?
There are many questions that could be raised, but the god of the bible seems like a huge dick to me anyways. It seems that every moral person should denounce him even if it were possible that he could exist.
You should abandon your iron age myth.
"Every true faith is infallible -- It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it. But it does not offer the least support for the establishing of an objective truth. Here the ways of men divide. If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search." - Nietzsche
Oh my. We have some youngins here.
"cuz you told them they are going to hell"
A bit of Pascal's Wager and giving the RRS quite a bit of power with the ability to send folks to hell.
Of course, if there were a hell and the RRS had that power, I think we'd all be a lot nicer than the xians that wish it for us!
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Do you honestly think that the people doing the Blasphemy Challenge are doing it because they want to go to Hell?!
COOL!!!
Well I would hope you would have reasons.
Wrong. Why? Kids.
It really depends on who you talk to and what you are trying to say here by torture.
Yes, chuch and the bible are lame, moving on.
I could say the same thing to christians.
Ok I'm not trying to insult you, but I am having trouble understanding you here. Maybe you could give me the verses in question?
We don't make people deny him. We asked them to deny the holy spirit.
Honestly they would probably rationalize a way for the unforgivable sin to be forgivable, however they did choose to do it.
I would be there with them because I did the challenge too. I am personally so confident1 in the non-existence of the christian god, or any god claimed to be all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving, that I would do and encourage anyone else to do what ever they could to remove the hold of such god belief from society.
Note1:may not be an opinion of RRS as a whole.
Sweet. I'm very glad to hear that churches are advertising the RSS' existance.
Since you go to church that's hardly a surprise.
Oh rough. You start off with a blatant lie. Not a good way to start.
Well I suppose this is a matter of opinion at the moment, since the claim hasn't been empirically proven.
Observation of other people isn't lame, just because you'd like it to be.
Reading the bible will change nothing. A book based in fiction is no path to reality.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. But if you look around the RRS site you'll be unable to see a correllation between the challenge and the actual argument itself. It's an ad that has worked well to open discussion on the subject.
As many theist visitors have pointed out, the challenge isn't technically viable. There is debate on the subject, but I doubt if a god existed he'd hold you to a comment you made and stop you from changing your mind. That's what free will is for isn't it?
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Sometimes a theist standpoint offers a perfect quote. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. You mispelled heaven as heavan.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I treat bullies like bullies. If we are to take your position for argument's sake tell your sky daddy we dont bow to threats. If this dad in the sky is reasonable it would make much more sense for it to skip a convoluted book and skip having you stand in front of him as if an all powerfull being needed you to be its protector.
Mind you, not all people claiming to believe in Jesus threaten non-Christians with their deity. But to anyone claiming the Christian label you need to challenge people like this to stop threating those outside the label with the Bible.
Bottem line, you the Christian would not bow to the threats of a Muslim. They wouldn't bow to a Christians threats and an atheist is no different.
We dont bow to threats. But if you can present a solid case in debate, we will consider it.
WE DONT BOW TO THREATS! Atheists are here to stay, so get used to it and get over it. Be mature and debate us. We wont give you cooties and we dont drink blood and howel at the moon.
Stop buying the bigoted stereotypes your preacher sells you. If you think atheists are evil based on what your preacher says your preacher is an idiot and a coward.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Point well taken Vastet, although I can no longer edit my post. And anyway, such errors are not exactly comparable with the wonderfully atrocious grimmer and spulling they is have posted.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
Spelling should be important as well as science and reason. But the top priority is the message behind it.
If I were working for a media outlet then it would be reasonable for me to have my work checked or use spellcheck. This person was offering a personal opinion which is not part of a paying job. It does not reflect their personal education or IQ, it merely means they cant spell. Nither can I.
I foucus on the message. The message is that their preacher sells them, and they buy the attitude it is ok to say., "My daddy is going to beat you up if you dont obey him".
That is the important thing. The fact that they are human and have flaws is not the issue. I have flaws too.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Alright! Alright! I'll cease my role as a spelling Nazi.
You see what I did there? I admitted I was wrong. Granted, it was regarding something pretty pathetic, but try to get a theist to admit they are wrong.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
Dont get me wrong. I think when you are on an offical job doing spelling or fact checking it is important. But off the clock people dont speek in proper english in casual conversation.
I just dont want the focus of the issue lost. Making them sound like they are dumb doesnt work. People are inteligent in many ways even if they have flaws in other areas.
I for one could not discribe a stock index or their meanings. But if you ask me about Pacal's Wager, I could comment on it effectively.
Theists are intelegent, they just may lack information and be ignorant about the fallacies they use. But in other areas of their lives we see that they can be PHDs, Doctors, Lawyers and be successfull business owners.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Spelling and grammar isn't always that important.
If someone points out spelling or grammar errors and calls that person an idiot and/or therefore concludes that their position is wrong, it is a form of an ad hominem argument. It's not reasonable.
Of course I'm not saying anyone did that, but who cares if something isn't spelled right. It just has to make sense. In this case, the two girls writing the emails should have edited it a little bit because some of the sentences don't make sense.
I'm hoping they reply soon.
"Every true faith is infallible -- It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it. But it does not offer the least support for the establishing of an objective truth. Here the ways of men divide. If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search." - Nietzsche
Lets not downplay education. It is imporant and part of that is spelling. But there is a differance between casual and professional. I dont have the same attitude and treat both contexts as the same. One should present themselves when in a professional context with quality presentation.
But if I am just having a casuall debate or presenting an opinion on a private forum in a non-proffessonal light, then the message becomes the focus.
If I am the editor of a paper it is reasonable. But if I am shooting the poop, over a beer while watching football then that is different.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
w0rd then, haha.
I just got back into posting on this forum. I hope to see you around more, brian37.
"Every true faith is infallible -- It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it. But it does not offer the least support for the establishing of an objective truth. Here the ways of men divide. If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search." - Nietzsche
I've bee a huge proponent of ignoring poor spelling and posted on it several times, but even I'm wondering if the posters in question are small children. I'd very much like to know their age.
Unfortunately, this thread was taken over by a sub-arguement meant to save it, so on the subject we ought to be adressing here:
That's pretty sweet we've got churches talking about this, sounds like a bad decision on their part if they want to keep their members. I gaurantee at least a small percent of believers are gonna start questioning their beliefs.
But remember, most theists have as difficult a time understanding our position as we do theirs. They've been told their whole life what they say IS logic, and it's gonna take some patience to convince them otherwise
"We are the star things harvesting the star energy"
-Carl Sagan