On the meaninglessness of the word God

AbrahObscura's picture

If you are going to propose something exists, you must also propose the means by which it is intelligible. If you cannot define what it is you are proposing, then the validity of what is denoted becomes meaningless in conversation. This must mean, of course, that a thing must be somehow knowable, which is to say, identifiably different than other things. Something must be known of the object claiming existence, in order to make propositions of existence intelligible. This proceeds the need for proof, because before we can weigh evidence, we need to know what it is we are talking about, and how it is made intelligible. Asking for proof that a 'flabulperbotuck' exists skips over the need for intelligibility.

Likewise, when we talk about the existence of god, we must first ask what it is we are talking about. What attributes does it posses, as surely if it exists, and we KNOW it exists, it needs to be intelligible, that is a revelation must be made and must readily be available to anyone. The first task of all theology should be, first and foremost, defining and making clear what the concept of God actually is. If god is not defined, saying 'God exists' is meaningless.

Our first chore, is to look for the intelligible definition of the God offered to be contemplated. We must first be able to distinguish the concept offered for god, from other things, in order to remove the possibility that god is merely just another word for them. If we say God is nature, that's all well and good, as nature certainly exists, but we lack an reasonable difference in quality to bother to demarcate the words in the first place, other than perhaps an extended vocabulary. In reality, using the term god to denote other things in the world is very common, and leads to a verbal impression that the word by itself has meaning, when in fact it is a game of musical chairs.

To keep true to this chore, theists must come together and agree on what is professed when they say the term God. There are a few things Theism must satisfy in proposition: A) God is something that exists outside the natural empirical world, though he may also be in it. B) God is intelligible and knowable to people, and can be demarcated from imagination.

The most basic proposition concerning God, seems to rest on the claim that god is an immanent aspect of being, that is, intrinsic to reality and woven into the fibers of it. God at this point is represented best as Pantheism, and although Christians might not use the term, it is implicit whenever they identify existence or nature as proof of god. The God of nature, that is acting in the course of natural laws, is indivisible from the concept nature in the first place. If they are taken synonymously, or as evidence for God residing in the intelligibility of natures existence, we might ask the purpose of having a separate term for god in nature in the first place. The god of the attributes of nature, is indivisible and unintelligible from nature itself and it therefor a superfluous term. If we were to posit that God exists while making it intelligibly synonymous with 'Playstation 3', we would realize this is just a trick to confuse the terms of something that does in fact exist and is definable and intelligible with something that isn't. To then expand god's definition to include the Xbox 360, all computers, electronics, electricity, the electromagnetic spectrum and all of existence, is just as silly and deceptive.

We must always assume, for god to have meaning outside of triviality, that there is something supernatural in his being. Finding a being in the universe that is smarter, stronger, & more knowledgeable does not count as 'god' in this respect, because however superior in relation to our own abilities it might be, it is still subject to the natural laws of the universe. The same works with the laws of logic. If god exists in accordance to the laws of, his existence must obey them. If he 'is' the laws of logic, it is trivial to refer to it as god. If he, created the laws of logic, we don't have any idea what a creature would be like, and he becomes unintelligible and unknowable.

Laws, both natural and logical, are limitations on existence and define regularity. Things that exist, have characteristics that define their nature, and their nature is indicative of their capacities for causal action. Xbox 360 doesn't have the ability to play blu-ray discs, and Playstation 3 cannot play the game Gears of war. The action, potential & capacity of a thing is determined by its characteristics; the characteristics determine, in other words, what a thing can or cannot do. Theists, however, in an attempt to give characteristics that only state what it is he CAN do, overlook that characteristics so much as they allow a thing to behave in a certain way, also define what it is the object cannot do. The theistic escape from this is the 'unlimited attribute' , that is, characteristics unbound by the limitations of natural law.

If we say that a creature exists outside of natural law, it cannot possess determinate characteristics in it. The characteristics it would display would impose limits, and limits restrict infinite capacities. Therefor we must then posit god as a being that has no specific (finite) nature, something that is inseparable from nothingness itself. To be something, is to be something specific, hence not nothing. If god is to exist, and to have characteristics, they must be something specific, but, as we have seen, to give something determinate characteristics is to then give it limitations. Ergo, if a thing is to exist outside of physical existence, it must exist without a limited nature which is indivisible from having no nature at all.

I would also like to add a brief treatise on the idea of perfection, as this is how God is described continually. Perfection is a contextually reliant term, and without context is meaningless as the term 'red' would be to denote something that is invisible. Perfection implies that a thing is flawlessly endowed to perform its task, but if you take away the thing or the task, perfection cannot be applied in the same meaningful context. This comes from the common mistake that a word used in the nominal sense makes it a unique entity, when in reality it is a quality to be derived from the situational context of a particular thing and a particular event. As a descriptive quality or attribute perfection cannot be used as a meaningful term without it being used to describe this causal relation.

Now, there is a decent option here for using the term to describe god via positive theology. God expresses perfection in everything it does, though you wouldn't know it from looking at the continued state of the world, but let us give him the benefit of the doubt. In order for God to enact his perfection, he will have to display it, as we said before, in activities in the natural intelligible world. To commit to an activity, itself is to become limited to means, if we posit that god is limited to means, these means impose a power for which god must manipulate, manipulation implies a lack of coextension, hence there are other powers than god, that god must deal with.

Now, insofar as perfection is limited to activity and means, and hence materials, we must also take time to notice perfection is limited to them. God cannot do perfect things without things to do. But if god does something, or is something in the intelligible logical world, he is limited from doing or being its contradictory state at the same time, place and context. If god can be perfect without activities, this places the definition for perfection out of the intelligible realm, and into the unknown and unidentifiable.

deludedgod's picture

Very well done. I had

Very well done. I had consistently proposed the same notion that the theistic notion of the God concept had no meaning if it was to reconcile two mutually exclusive ontologies. I bet no theists will respond.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

Books about atheism

Hambydammit's picture

Very well constructed

Very well constructed essay.  If you haven't seen this thread, it's worth having a look to see a couple of examples of the elusive "double-definition" that theists need to make their arguments worth anything.

Also worth noting is that nobody even bothered trying to define anything besides "emotion."

Funny how few responses you get from theists when you ask them questions that demand definite answers.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism

Hmm, you have a lot of

Hmm, you have a lot of thoughts. Where to start...
I like you aren't afraid to challenge anything, thats way cool. But here are some flaws with your thread:
1) You keep assumeing you could understand a God. Science has proven what theists have always believed: people are limited. A single person could never understand all human science ever done. If God theoreticaly exisited, he would have created all of our knowledge and would be infinetly beyond our understanding.
2) If, theoreticaly God created everything, he would control nature, not the other way around. He could allow nature to run it's course, and step in when he felt it would be benifitial.
3) As for perfection; If, theoreticaly God was infinate, then perfection would be on his terms and we are back to my point #1; perfection's definition would be beyond us.

todangst's picture

joeg wrote:Hmm, you have a

joeg wrote:
Hmm, you have a lot of thoughts. Where to start... I like you aren't afraid to challenge anything, thats way cool. But here are some flaws with your thread:

None of the purported 'flaws' in his argument are actually flaws at all.

 

Quote:

1) You keep assumeing you could understand a God.

Actually, his argument relies on this point: that 'god' is undefinable.

Quote:

Science has proven what theists have always believed: people are limited.

"Science' has proven that people are limited, it already assumes that people are limited from the outset.

But conceding that people are limited, ergo they cannot 'concevie' of 'god', only proves his point: that 'god' is an incoherent term.

You can't just beg the question that there is a god, anyway, if you can't even define what 'god' is in the first place.

Quote:

A single person could never understand all human science ever done. If God theoreticaly exisited, he would have created all of our knowledge and would be infinetly beyond our understanding.

Then you concede that the term 'god' is in fact incoherent!

Quote:

2) If, theoreticaly God created everything, he would control nature, not the other way around. He could allow nature to run it's course, and step in when he felt it would be benifitial. 3) As for perfection; If, theoreticaly God was infinate, then perfection would be on his terms and we are back to my point #1; perfection's definition would be beyond us.

And you again prove his point: that 'god' is an incoherent term!

Your entire post proves Abrah's point.

I also write on the incoherence of the 'god' term, here:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/god_is_an_incoherent_term

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'

doctoro's picture

I conversed with Lee in the

I conversed with Lee in the chatroom, and with his help, we posited a permutation of Russell's teapot analogy in the context of God's unintelligibility.

Bertrand Russell wrote:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

We posit that we must take Russell's teapot analogy to the next level... I call it "Russell's teapot squared".

Since our understanding of "God" is completely unintelligible, the teapot analogy simply won't do. We can understand the properties of a teapot and know what it is.

Instead, I should replace the term, "teapot" with something like "flumperjunk".

You ask, "What is a flumperjunk?"

My response is, "I don't know, but I worship it."

You ask, "What are the properties of the flumperjunk?"

I respond, stating, "I don't know what the properties are because nobody can agree on them and they are logically inconsistent. I worship him anyway."

NOW... Imagine that I ask you to worship and deify something I cannot define AND I have no proof for.

Then imagine your whole society is based on worship of the flumperjunk.

Wouldn't you be pissed?

doctoro's picture

joeg wrote: 2) If,

joeg wrote:
2) If, theoretically God created everything, he would control nature, not the other way around. He could allow nature to run it's course, and step in when he felt it would be beneficial.

Wrong.

This is an anthropomorphization of God.

If God is perfect, he is ONLY ABLE to do one perfect action.

 By that, I mean that God is an automaton devoid of free will.

 Using such terminology as God "stepping in when he FEELS that it would be beneficial" makes no sense...  God has no feelings.  He is forced by his nature to always do the perfectly good action.

God could not be an entity with thoughts and feelings.  He must act perfectly in every situation by definition.

God doesn't even "control nature".  By definition, he IS nature because he is always forced to take one possible action.