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The Problem

zwan94's picture
Submitted by zwan94 on August 26, 2007 - 1:17pm.

To get to the root of the matter...

Xians know that they cannot back up their claims except with other faith-based claims. Now, I've seen this work well with other Xians, but not with atheists.

The atheists I know use rational + logic formula to dissolve Xian arguements. Xians utilize the same formula to attempt to prove their claim. This has never, ever worked. Everytime I have seen a Xian use a logical process to support whatever he might be talking about, he/she gets their ass handed to them.

I want Xians to know the only way to convince me of the supernatural will be to show me evidence. You will be ignored if you use the "the truth is bible, the bible is god, god is truth" rhetoric or anything similiar.

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mavaddat's picture

As an atheist, I can testify

Submitted by mavaddat on August 26, 2007 - 6:14pm.

As an atheist, I can testify to the fact the arguments from Christians really do get more subtle than you've apparently experienced. We should guard against generalizing the entire philosophy of theism and Christianity based on a few people we've run across who are most likely afraid to think for themselves. Pretending that all the possible arguments against our side are really inane and stupid really doesn't help us. It is better to be honest and evaluate the more sophisticated representatives of the Christian side. That way we don't end up looking or feeling foolish when a difficult argument is presented to us (and there will inevitibly be difficult arguments).

zwan94's picture

mavaddat wrote:

Submitted by zwan94 on August 26, 2007 - 6:24pm.

mavaddat wrote:
As an atheist, I can testify to the fact the arguments from Christians really do get more subtle than you've apparently experienced. We should guard against generalizing the entire philosophy of theism and Christianity based on a few people we've run across who are most likely afraid to think for themselves. Pretending that all the possible arguments against our side are really inane and stupid really doesn't help us. It is better to be honest and evaluate the more sophisticated representatives of the Christian side. That way we don't end up looking or feeling foolish when a difficult argument is presented to us (and there will inevitibly be difficult arguments).

 

Yes, good point. I think what I was trying to say is that I really hate circular reasoning. There are no doubt, Christians and others who can hold a steady claim.

 

 

zwan94 wrote: The

Submitted by Cpt_pineapple on August 26, 2007 - 9:37pm.

zwan94 wrote:
The atheists I know use rational + logic formula to dissolve Xian arguements. Xians utilize the same formula to attempt to prove their claim. This has never, ever worked. Everytime I have seen a Xian use a logical process to support whatever he might be talking about, he/she gets their ass handed to them. 

 

Nothing in atheism says you must make rational arguments.

 

 

mavaddat wrote:

As an atheist, I can testify to the fact the arguments from Christians really do get more subtle than you've apparently experienced. We should guard against generalizing the entire philosophy of theism and Christianity based on a few people we've run across who are most likely afraid to think for themselves. Pretending that all the possible arguments against our side are really inane and stupid really doesn't help us. It is better to be honest and evaluate the more sophisticated representatives of the Christian side. That way we don't end up looking or feeling foolish when a difficult argument is presented to us (and there will inevitibly be difficult arguments).

I think people like Kent Hovind  undermine the cause. They are far too easy to go after and hinders legitimate arguments, since those arguments are generalized amongst all Theists.