The great big thread of Nony vs. Israel
Offline For those who read my recommendations of The Jerusalem Post and Haaretz this is old news. For those who have better things to do with their time, such as forming opinion absent knowledge of the subject, the last week has become an admission of the obvious.
The one thing that was the unmentionable 800 lb gorilla in the room for months started being mentioned as an aside about a week ago by both the US and Israel. On Thursday in Israel the PM's Office said that when he spoke to the UN Netanyahu would address both the desire for peaceful negotiations and the 800 lb gorilla.
The gorilla is the fact that a state of Palestine can and presumably will take Israel before the ICJ, the International Court of Justice, for war crimes related to the occupation. Elvis has entered the building! Israelis have no defense. They are guilty as charged.
The gorilla is in the open. Izziehuggers take to the hills. Israel has routed your defense of Israel.
www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/netanyahu-israel-will-agree-to-upgrade-of-palestinian-status-not-statehood-1.384716
Netanyahu told his interlocutors that granting the PA the status of a state would allow the Palestinians to go to the International Criminal Court in The Hague over issues like settlement construction. "But as long as it is less than a state, I'm ready to talk about it," a source familiar with the conversation quoted him as saying.
It is an admission of war crimes plain and simple.
Please folks, stop telling me I do not know what is going on but you do. Anyone who follows events in Israel would never have questioned Israel's war crimes.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
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Just an interesting picture I found.
you know, there are plenty of jews all over the world who are not directly involved with israeli aggression, and even a growing number who are horrified by it. i think at the very least you should change your terminology to "israeli war crimes."
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
That is not a customary distinction in this subject. All "arabs" and all Palestinians are regularly identified by JEWS without condemnation by Jews for doing so. Reciprocity and conformity are valuable tools in this discussion.
Nor is it customary to deny Nazi sympathizers the appellation of Nazi. They work so hard to earn it that it would be unkind to deny them the honor.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
It's not a customary distinction for you because you don't like it. It is still a distinction that has been made and continues to be made.
How are you doing dealing with those conventions you cited that refute your position? Have you figured out what a war crime is yet?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
The next time you come across a Israeli or Jewish leader using words to the effect "some Palestinians" or "some Arabs" or "some Muslims" when referring to terrorists (who are really lawfulresistance fighters) you be certain to post the URL. In fact please feel free to research the issue and post all the past URLs you can find.
I have yet to find evidence that there is a war between the Jews and the occupied Palestinians. If you have a URL to a declaration of war by either party you be certain to post the URL.
I have yet to find any treaty which describes any action by the lawful resistance as criminal. Should you find such a treaty you be certain to post the URL.
Have you even looked for material which might support the applicability of war crimes to the party living under criminal tyranny? If you have not established the foundation for your assertion why do you keep making a baseless assertion? Do you think repetition is substitute for foundation?
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
As there is no war rather only an occupation and a resistance, what treaty have you found which governs the actions of a lawful resistance to criminal occupation?
Can you cite any Poles or French who were charged with crimes of resistance? Can you cite any precedent for charging the resistance for any action they take against their oppressors?
If you have found that please post the URL.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
In other words, no, you don't understand that the conventions you cite refute you. Or are you now saying that neither Israel or the Palestinians are committing war crimes? Would you make up your damn mind?
Countering your baseless assertions with the facts is hardly making an assertion of my own, numbnuts.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
It has been established the squatter towns alone make the occupation criminal. Did you miss that? Have you missed my recitations of many other criminal actions? So we agree the occupation criminal.
Because the occupation is criminal the right to violent resistance is unfettered by legal encumbrance.
Nor in all the wars and all the resistance movements since the custom of treaties governing occupation was established has there been a single case of charging any member of the resistance for any act of resistance.
Under what legal construction do you propose the methods of resistance used by the Palestinians should be elevated to crimes in some future treaty?
Keep in mind the methods used by the Palestinians are nothing new and go back to the 1920s through 1940s when they were pioneered by Jews. The world did not see fit to criminalize the same actions when done by Jews. Why do you think the world will see the same actions by Palestinians as different?
In any event AFTER there is such a treaty and after the Palestinians sign it then and only then can the actions be considered crimes.
Is there anything else?
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Don't hurt yourself backpedaling Nony.
I particularly like the translation of the yiddish "no preconditions" to the english "start over from scratch." The Forward should be thanked for the clarification.
www.forward.com/articles/144916/
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
And you fight here to help these people - why?
When the hasbara brigade gets its ass handed to it the response should be more clever? Does not the stereotype hold the hasbaraites to be a clever people?
There remains only one criminal party in this matter. The criminal party is the Jews. There is only one party which in law and in custom is liable for criminal punishment. That party is the Jews.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
"It has been established the squatter towns alone make the occupation criminal. Did you miss that?"
What part of "BOTH sides are committing war crimes" do you not understand? The legality or lack thereof of the occupation has no impact on the legality of actions committed by either side during it. An action is either a war crime or not. The circumstances surrounding the area/event are irrelevant to the legality of actions taken. Whether Palestine is freed or not, killing Palestinian children is illegal. And whether Palestine is freed or not, killing Israeli children is illegal.
The more you try, and fail, to argue against this fact, the more your credibilty and your argument in general suffers.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I recite only the facts. I find the truth to be most helpful in all cases. As I noted in the beginning, it is all in the semantics. As Forward cartoon noted calling "start over from scratch" "no preconditions" is another example.
My interest is in the US interest of spreading democracy and ending oppression everywhere including and even if it is oppression by Jews. After all the incessant whining about WWII it is reasonable to expect better behavior.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
If you recited the facts, you'd realize that both sides of guilty of war crimes according to the conventions you cited.
Is that why you said that they weren't at war when you found out that those conventions weren't unilateral?
Why do you keep pwning yourself?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
There is no war. Therefore there can be no war crimes. There is only a lawful resistance against criminal occupation. There is no legal encumbrance upon the methods of ending the occupation.
Why must the Hasbara Brigade always try to inject its nonsense propaganda into an otherwise rational discussion? Because they have nothing but propaganda lies to use. Speaking the truth would be an admission of guilt.
As you KNOW there is nothing in international law regarding the behavior of the lawful resistance nor is there any precedent of charging the resistance with any crime whatsoever why do you make such irrational statements? Are you intrinsically irrational? Or is it just more jewish lies?
Why do you keep trying to front long discredited jewish propaganda? After it has been exposed here as nothing but jewish lies why do you keep repeating these jewish lies?
However you liars for Moses have been challenged by me more than once to produce evidence there is a war such as a declaration therefore and you folks produce nothing. You Tanach knockers keep pretending you are incapable of distinguishing from a war and an occupation and expect to get away with it.
There is nothing in international law prohibiting the resistance from roasting the occupiers' kids over an open fire so heinous are the crimes of an illegal occupation. However should the occupation so much as muss the hair of the occupied without the justification of military necessity a crime has been committed. As you know you cannot produce a single word from any treaty on the conduct of an occupation to the contrary why do you continue to repeat what you know is total bullshit?
I did not create international law. Neither did you. Nor is it what the criminals behind your Hasbara Squad lie to the world that it is. Despite all the holodile tears whatever happens to Jewish children is solely the responsibility of the Jews themselves and happens to their children lawfully regardless of what happens.
HOWEVER, if you disagree CITE the provision(s) of international law governing military occupation which disagree with my recitation of the facts.
As you have NEVER given any citation of any kind whatsoever I know for a fact you will not produce a single thing.
The primary crime was hatched by Herzl. It is that crime from which all the rest have followed.
Response to the crimes is always lawful.
[b[Antizionism is a moral imperative.[/b]
Zionism is by definition a criminal enterprise. Those who support zionism are accessories to the crime of zionism.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
So when you accused Israel of war crimes by citing those conventions you were lying?
What else are you lying about?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
"There is no war."
False. The war never ended, hence "occupation".
Everything else you said here falls into two categories:
1: Dove-tailing from this error on your part, and subsequently falsified by correcting your error.
2: I've already refuted it.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
so basically you refuse to be the bigger man. look, hoss, i'm neither jewish, israeli, palestinian, arab, or muslim. i'm about as anglo-saxon as you can get. my ancestors stretch damn near back to the mayflower. in fact, if i didn't come from a family of laborers, i'd call myself a WASP. so i have no emotional connection to the conflict one way or the other. i make the distinction because it exists, and recognizing it exists is the right thing to do. not recognizing, or refusing to recognize, it exists is nothing more than demagoguery, pure and simple.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Never the bigger man. Always the better man.
Hoss was big. Bigger is not better.
I have no idea what ancestry has to do with it but mine go back at least to the Vikings and from there likely directly to the first HSS to enter Europe from the east rather the south.
Perhaps it is the berserker in me but I see no point in making a distinction between the perps and the sympathisers with the perps. And when it comes to supporters of the perps the law calls them accessories to the crimes of the perps and liable to the same punishment as the perps.
To me it appears you want to make a distinction without a difference. If one sends money to war criminals one is a war criminal. If one provides support for war criminals then one is a war criminal. Provide protection or shelter to a criminal then one is also a criminal. It is the same as the support of a criminal in his crimes. It makes the person an accessory and also a criminal.
I do not see how an honest person of innocent intent can miss the obvious legal culpability.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
I guess you were off-planet in the 1990s. There was a war with Jordan from 1967 until a peace treaty was signed with Jordan in 1995 which ended the war.
As there is no war and as the Palestinians never made war on Israel there is no war. The occupation is also criminal because there was never a war with the Palestinians.
No wonder you are such a suck up to those murdering bastard Jews.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/hague02.asp
Do you mean
Article 46
Family honors and rights, individual lives and private property, as well as religious convictions and liberty, must be respected.
squatters cannot steal land? mosques cannot be destroyed?
Article 47
Pillage is formally prohibited.
stealing olive harvests is a criminal act? even when protected by the military?
Article 50
No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, can be inflicted on the population on account of the acts of individuals for which it cannot be regarded as collectively responsible.
collective punishment is prohibited?
Article 55
The occupying State shall only be regarded as administrator and usufructuary of the public buildings, real property, forests, and agricultural works belonging to the hostile State, (note there is no hostile state in the West Bank) and situated in the occupied country. It must protect the capital of these properties, and administer it according to the rules of usufruct.(google it)
taking land, water, quarry stone and Dead Sea minerals are crimes? covers dumping human sewage on lands not stolen? the consequent deaths are murder? violations of biological warfare treaty? attempted genocide?
Article 56
The property of the communes, that of religious, charitable, and educational institutions, and those of arts and science, even when State property, shall be treated as private property.
the Dead Sea Scrolls cannot be looted?
All of the above done under the direct authority of the jewish government of Israel and both protected and encouraged by the criminal occupying army.
One has to inquire what kind of tribal mind cannot see the war crimes.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
well, apparently ancestry has a lot to do with it in your book, if being jewish automatically makes one an unqualified supporter of israel and all its policies. my point, however, was to show i have absolutely no emotional connection to any group or individual involved in any facet of this conflict.
so i'm assuming you don't pay taxes.
there is no monolithic jewry, just as there is no monolithic judaism. there are jews who are unqualified supporters, morally and financially, of israel's worst sharonic actions. there are jews who turn their backs completely on everything israel stands for, even its existence. then there is every color of the spectrum in between. hell, there are even jewish neo-nazis and holocaust deniers. jews are pretty much like, well, the rest of humanity: they have minds of their own and those minds fall all over the place and most of them cannot be automatically pigeonholed as israeli hawks. so as long as you insist on harping on what "jews" have done, you're not showing the "berserker" in you. you're showing the bigot. shit, at least come out and admit it. just say, "i hate all jews, there's no ounce of goodness in them, etc., etc.," and i for one will actually respect you more, hoss.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Then when you are shown that the Palestinians are also violating war crimes conventions your response is "Israel and Palestine aren't at war".
Make up your mind. Here, I'll make it easier for you.
It comes down to either both sides are committing war crimes or they're not.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Judaism is a religion. Ancestry has no more to do with being a Jew than the parents having any other religion. Are you pretending you have missed my observations on the fake atheists who claim to be "jews"? I have agreed on can claim membership is the Fraternal Order of Jews but that it has no more meaning than any other fraternal organization such as the Racoons.
It is also not credible you have missed my REPEATED requests to recite the Jews, jewish organizations and even fake atheists who in fact condemn Israel. Neither it is credible you have missed the deafening silence as the only response. Perhaps not deafening, croaking frogs can be loud.
Absent evidence of condemnation no rational person would assume it exists. Are you rational? Do you claim to have evidence you refuse to disclose? Or are you irrational?
This does not me praising with faint damns. It does not mean phrased in understanding tones. It does not mean including excuses at every turn. It does not mean a call to do better. It does mean flat out condemnation in simple declarative sentences without ambiguities of any kind.
That means I have read the kind of stuff you are most likely to try to pass off as condemnation.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Mere assertion is not evidence.
The subject being the absence of condemnation of Israel.
Please post URLs to all the jewish condemnation you find.
Don't let the frogs rule the night.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
You realize that you have just allowed people to disregard the entirety of your posts, right?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
You realize that will not happen. As evidence I offer your response as faux concern which you hope will discourage me. Been there, done that, know the game.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
wow, you just cleared up centuries of ambiguity. just like that. i can't believe your name isn't among the annals of religious and historical scholarship. here's hoping one day you'll get the nobel prize you so richly deserve for sorting us all out.
but fine, judaism is a religion. in fact, judaism as a religion is a great interest of mine, and said religion does not require unqualified support for the policies of the modern state of israel.
no, i'm not pretending. i really have missed them. probably because i spend 50 plus hours a week making sure my wife and son are fed. i haven't had time to watch the entire "in search of..." catalogue yet either.
to someone like you i'm sure it isn't credible. for those on here who have a life away from a computer screen, i think you'd be surprised how credible it is. also, i don't have a handy list of links ready to copy and paste to "prove" my point, mostly because i have the ancient habit of getting most of my info from books and talking to people face to face. one book i would recommend is prophets outcast, an anthology of anti-zionist writings from jews, religious and otherwise (the latter perhaps not meeting your strict criteria for being "jewish,: but i suppose they met their and the editor's criteria well enough). here's a link to one organization i've heard of:
http://www.nkusa.org/
here are a couple more links:
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I73UtRRSbqg
have fun dissecting those. i gotta go teach.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I know it has happened, Matty. You're little more than a joke here.
I have no concern for you (vrai ou faux). I just like to remind you that when you typed "mere assertion is not evidence" you distanced every post you've made from evidence.
Just like I did when I told you that the Palestinians have also committed war crimes under the conventions you cite. Remember? That's when you started claiming that Israel is at war but the Palestinians magically aren't.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
lol
So... you think that just because Jordan agreed to cede the territory that the local populace had anything to do with it or agreed to the conditions? Sorry, but unless you can show me the Palestinians themselves agreeing to be permanently occupied, you're not proving the war ended. Merely that part of the war ended. Most even. But not all of it.
Clearly you suffer from a false premise.
More yawn-worthy nonsense. The occupation is illegal because the occupied aren't agreeing and have never agreed to it.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
That is also why a state of war exists. A state which does not require an official document to verify. War doesn't need to have paperwork to exist, oh small minded one. That's merely a convention of society and civilisation. A convention that is not always adhered to.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
That the Yahweh cult has raised drunkenness to a religious obligation can be traced back to the description of the worship ceremony in the "cleansed" temple performed by the Maccabes being identical to a ceremony to Dionysius. Thus we find another thematic source for the Yahweh cult.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Having been asked for evidence there was ever a state of war between the jews and the Palestinians and you having failed to produce any such evidence you revert to merely repeating the lie about a state of war between them.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Having failed to provide evidence the war ended for all involved parties you revert to merely repeating the lie about no state of war between them.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.