I've noticed that atheists tend to be a glass half empty person when it comes to discussions on God.

They put extreme focus on the negative, declaring God to be a brute, unjust, unloving, unmeriful Creator as it this perspective somehow validates the notion that God is a man-made construct.

... God has given us quite a lot to make it through this life without being completely miserable. 

 

1. Gift of Sleep -  Sleep is a wonderful invention.  Not only does it allow our bodies to recharge and renew energies,  sleep gives us an opportunity to shut off from the world.   No matter how tough my life is, I can always look forward to 6-8 hours a night escaping from reality. 

 

2.  Laughter -  God gave us this ability to have a physical release called laughter that for a moment, brings happiness and joy.  Science can only explain the mechanism behind the act.  There are well documented medical benefits to having a good laugh as well. 

 

3.  Taste buds -  we have up to 8,000 taste buds designed to give us sensations of pleasure with certain tastes.  God certainly didn't have to do this.   Taste of food is not necessary to substain the human body.  Taste doesn't matter to the digestive system.  But we have taste to enjoy a wide variety of foods.

 

4.  Sex -  I don't think anyone will argue with this one.  Sex is an amazing creation.  Our society is obsessed with it.   On a physical level, sex offers many benefits such as stress reduction and lower blood pressure.   It also serves to bring an emotional bond to a couple on a level that can't be experienced any other way.    However, whenevery you mess around with this powerful force outside God's requirements then the act has several consequences.  Spread of STDS, for example.

Yeah, there are many negatives to this existence.

  I believe the introduction of sin is the root of these negatives....

Whenever I think about the gifts, I realize just how ridiculous the belief in evolution really is.  We would have to be extremely lucky for random events to give us such great things to enjoy.  Evolution may have determined the need for a food source, but not the need for taste buds. 

 

Insomnia is a result of a flawed human body which originated from introducing sin into the world.  The causes are many.   Blaming God for lack of sleep would be the equivalent of blaming God for not gving you the gift of singing.

 

Doesn't surprise me.  Mockery of Christians is your form of worship.  It somehow makes your non-belief seem more valid.   

 

 

  Doesn't surprise me though since you are brainwashed to hate God by Satan.  BTW,  there are many people who find broccoli delicious.  In a modern society, our sinful human bodies crave destructive forces such as harmful processed food.  Sin = death.  It's a simple equation.

You don't think being faithful to a spouse is a good thing?  Strip Christianity out of the equation and you still have consequences.  Sex with multiple partners = spread of diseases.   It also desensitizes you to the intimacy of the act.

 

 

 

1.  You have zero proof that there is no God. 

 

2.  Your great atheist life could change in a second.  To assume that all your future days will be free of pain and misery is to live in a fantasy.

If evolution was the true origin of life, we would function just like animals, souless creatures acting only on instinct, eating, defecating and reproducing.  I certainly don't see a monkey get teary eyed over appreciating a beautitful sunset.  Evolution would have resulted in a realm of bleak ugliness, not a rainbow of beautiful colors.

TWD39 wrote:

If evolution was the true origin of life, we would function just like animals, souless creatures acting only on instinct, eating, defecating and reproducing.  I certainly don't see a monkey get teary eyed over appreciating a beautitful sunset.  Evolution would have resulted in a realm of bleak ugliness, not a rainbow of beautiful colors.

Evolution isn't the origin of life. It's the means by which life became more diverse and advanced. The greatest thing to happen to us was that our brains evolved to give us the ability to create meaning outside of pure survival and reproduction. If you think evolution would have resulted in a realm of bleak ugliness, I think you don't understand how it works. Read about it sometime. It's incredibly fascinating, and it's important to our knowledge of how we work.

Quote:

Insomnia is a result of a flawed human body which originated from introducing sin into the world.  The causes are many.   Blaming God for lack of sleep would be the equivalent of blaming God for not gving you the gift of singing.

What is THE worst apologetic piece of garbage ever? The above quoted argument. What would you say about somebody who deliberately punished you for something I did? I don't think you would call them just, would you? In fact, I think you would think quite the opposite of such a person. Now this god, who sees all of course, is punishing insomniacs for something that not only someone else did, but somebody thousands of years ago that an insomniac today had NO chance to help prevent. It's seriously the weakest argument ever.

Man brought sin in this world, not God.  Death is a natural consequence of sin.  I'm sorry if your dead immoral spiritual eyes are incapable of seeing this truth.   Then OTOH, if GOd had not punished man, atheists would be all over God for being a liar since He warned that man would surely die if they commited this act of disobedience.

 

Man brought sin in this world, not God.  Death is a natural consequence of sin.  I'm sorry if your dead immoral spiritual eyes are incapable of seeing this truth.   Then OTOH, if GOd had not punished man, atheists would be all over God for being a liar since He warned that man would surely die if they commited this act of disobedience.

If evolution was the true origin of life, we would function just like animals, souless creatures acting only on instinct, eating, defecating and reproducing.  I certainly don't see a monkey get teary eyed over appreciating a beautitful sunset.  Evolution would have resulted in a realm of bleak ugliness, not a rainbow of beautiful colors.

 

So why would a loving god create such flawed bodies? If I built a flawed house I wouldn't blame the house when it collapsed. 

 

Nah, mocking christians is just an entertaining pass time for me. Actually, it is fairly rare that I bother having a discussion with a christian, you should feel honored. I spend most of my time here in the political forums talking politics and economics. 

 

Yet you will die just the same if you only eat healthy unprocessed foods. Death is a fact of life and everyone will die no matter how saintly they are according to your book. There are perfectly good reasons why our bodies evolved to desire fat, protein, sugar and salt. To ignore that is to simply ignore reality. 

I think it is a stupid promise to make and a rather dull life to live. I think one should be honest with their loved ones so if you make the promise you ought to keep it, but it is best not to make the promise in the first place. Best solution is to never get married, but I don't begrudge those who make bad choices. 

 

I have never had an STD, there are ways to be careful and to protect yourself even while enjoying multiple partners. 

 

1. You have zero proof that there is no spaghetti monster. As soon as you prove there is no spaghetti monster I will prove there is no god. It can be proven that your old book is contradictory and nonsensical, but I will leave it to those who have more patience than I to deal with those arguments. At least the spaghetti monster story is internally consistent. 

I've noticed that atheists tend to be a glass half empty person when it comes to discussions on God.  They put extreme focus on the negative, declaring God to be a brute, unjust, unloving, unmeriful Creator as it this perspective somehow validates the notion that God is a man-made construct.

 

I'm here to tilt things back a bit in the other directions.  Over the weekend, I was reminded on just how GOOD God is when reflecting on the gifts of God.  God has given us quite a lot to make it through this life without being completely miserable.   

 

Here are a few in no particular order:

 

1. Gift of Sleep -  Sleep is a wonderful invention.  Not only does it allow our bodies to recharge and renew energies,  sleep gives us an opportunity to shut off from the world.   No matter how tough my life is, I can always look forward to 6-8 hours a night escaping from reality. 

 

2.  Laughter -  God gave us this ability to have a physical release called laughter that for a moment, brings happiness and joy.  Science can only explain the mechanism behind the act.  There are well documented medical benefits to having a good laugh as well. 

 

3.  Taste buds -  we have up to 8,000 taste buds designed to give us sensations of pleasure with certain tastes.  God certainly didn't have to do this.   Taste of food is not necessary to substain the human body.  Taste doesn't matter to the digestive system.  But we have taste to enjoy a wide variety of foods.

 

4.  Sex -  I don't think anyone will argue with this one.  Sex is an amazing creation.  Our society is obsessed with it.   On a physical level, sex offers many benefits such as stress reduction and lower blood pressure.   It also serves to bring an emotional bond to a couple on a level that can't be experienced any other way.    However, whenevery you mess around with this powerful force outside God's requirements then the act has several consequences.  Spread of STDS, for example.

 

Yeah, there are many negatives to this existence.  I believe the introduction of sin is the root of these negatives, but God also gave us these gifts to help us make it through each day.  Whenever I think about the gifts, I realize just how ridiculous the belief in evolution really is.  We would have to be extremely lucky for random events to give us such great things to enjoy.  Evolution may have determined the need for a food source, but not the need for taste buds. 

I believe the introduction of sin is the root of these negatives,

TWD39 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

So why would a loving god create such flawed bodies? If I built a flawed house I wouldn't blame the house when it collapsed. 

 

God didn't create flawed bodies.  The first man was designed to be immortal.  However, he introduced sin into this world which totally changed our physical reality. 

So man found a way around an omnipotent, all knowing god? If a god created us, and we are imperfect, how can it be any fault but his? Either the god is imperfect (and therefore by definition is not god) or god intentionally created us to be imperfect, in which case being imperfect is hardly a surprise. Or the most obvious answer, there is no god that created us and we are imperfect because we were not intentionally created by anything. 

 

TWD39 wrote:

I've dealt with another of your dark ilk to know any discussions are pointless.  You are programmed to always disagree with a Christian, and never admit that there is a single shred of goodness in the Christian faith.  Atheists of your caliber are extremely closed minded.

 

Says the man who refers to me as "dark" knowing absolutely nothing about me other than me being an atheist. Pot meet kettle. I never said there was nothing good about christianity. For some people it has no doubt made them better people. Some christians on here have said if they were not christian they would be serial killers so in that case I am glad they have their beliefs. That doesn't make their beliefs any more true. 

 

 

TWD39 wrote:

 

Yet, you will berate God for not curing every illness when the reality is He is just delaying the inevitable. 

 

I don't berate god, I don't think he exists. However, good people dying painful deaths while cruel people life long luxurious lives is a good reason to doubt the existence of an omnipotent and moral being. The being is either not omnipotent, or doesn't care about the horrors that many wonderful people face on a daily basis. Either way, if that being did exist I don't see a reason why I should grovel at his feet and worship him. And according to you, death is only inevitable because of him.

 

TWD39 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

I think it is a stupid promise to make and a rather dull life to live. I think one should be honest with their loved ones so if you make the promise you ought to keep it, but it is best not to make the promise in the first place. Best solution is to never get married, but I don't begrudge those who make bad choices. 

 

Wow, talk about a lack of morals.

 

I get that a lot from close minded people like you, but I don't really care if you agree with my morality, I don't agree with yours. As long as you don't try to pass laws to force me to live your way I have no problem. 

 

TWD39 wrote:

 

That's called being lucky.  Your luck could run out any time.  No matter how you spin it, you are gambling with your life.  And yes, people get STDS even when using protection. 

Well every time I get into a car I am gambling with my life. In fact, statistically speaking a car accident is by far the most likely way for me to die right now. If you take precautions getting an STD, especially a serious one that can't be easily treated is unlikely. Sure it is a risk, but a minor one and worth every minute. There are dozens of equal risks to your life and/or health you probably take every day without thinking about it. Going through life worrying about every bad thing that could happen to you doesn't seem like a good way to live to me. You take sensible precautions and if something bad happens you deal with it. That's life. 

 

 

TWD39 wrote:

Actually there is clear evidence demonstrating that the spaghetti monster is a mockery creation designed by atheists.  It can be traced as a satirical letter to the Kansas Board of Education by Bobby Henderson.  There is zero evidence that it is real.   Do you have equally strong evidence to show me that the Bible is a complete work of fiction and God is a man made construct?  There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that God is real.    None for your spaghetti monster.

The only evidence you have for your god is a really old book. Evidence that the bible is fiction? Read it. You have evidence that god is real? Outside of just the bible? Or is everything you have reliant on a book that tells stories of magic? So far you have just made assertions that god created A B & C with no evidence whatsoever. I am open to consider any evidence you might have but don't start regurgitating bible verses at me. It has as much credibility as someone telling me Hogwarts is real and reading the Harry Potter series to me or perhaps a better analogy is someone telling me that Grendel is real and reading from Beowulf as if it were fact.  

But you are paying! LOL

Brian37 wrote:

But you are paying! LOL

Commie.

The only evidence you have for your god is a really old book. Evidence that the bible is fiction? Read it. You have evidence that god is real? Outside of just the bible? Or is everything you have reliant on a book that tells stories of magic? So far you have just made assertions that god created A B & C with no evidence whatsoever. I am open to consider any evidence you might have but don't start regurgitating bible verses at me. It has as much credibility as someone telling me Hogwarts is real and reading the Harry Potter series to me or perhaps a better analogy is someone telling me that Grendel is real and reading from Beowulf as if it were fact.  

harleysportster wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

But you are paying! LOL

Commie.

Wait a minute, I thought all of us Atheists were supposed to be communists ? At least where I live, I have to hear : " secular values, communist leaning, hate-filled, abortion-loving, homosexual supporting, evil people that took prayer out of the schools and the ten commandments off courthouse walls and therefore the reason why society is in such a terrifying state of dystopian horror that it currently is in,". 

My my, I had no idea I stood for all of that. 

And now, in defense of a loving Big Brother tyrant that wants you to worship him forever or burn in eternal torture, I am a half-glass empty kinda guy. 

I never pay attention to whether or not the glass is half full or empty, I just drink the glass and either get a refill or do not. 

I'd say " In Defense of a Loving God" needs some real good attorneys to argue that case. If they can establish such a defense, and a convincing enough one for a jury to decide that it IS the case, I want those guys as lawyers when I go before god to answer for all of my evil deeds. 

 

 

Typical atheist garbage mockery.   Your responses only reforce my negative stereotypes.  Atheists are not nice people.

  Words fail .. Mind blown. Careful friend.. What is proved by archaeological finds ? Seriously, What is proven ? This has nothing to do with substantiating any of the individual claims contained in the bible nor things things you just listed. A city existed. Yes, a city existed. There is evidence David existed. Yes, there is evidence David existed thanks to archaeological evidence.  Mind explaining ? Making statements and asserts are not making a case for something.

Beyond Saving wrote:

The only evidence you have for your god is a really old book. Evidence that the bible is fiction? Read it. You have evidence that god is real? Outside of just the bible? Or is everything you have reliant on a book that tells stories of magic? So far you have just made assertions that god created A B & C with no evidence whatsoever. I am open to consider any evidence you might have but don't start regurgitating bible verses at me. It has as much credibility as someone telling me Hogwarts is real and reading the Harry Potter series to me or perhaps a better analogy is someone telling me that Grendel is real and reading from Beowulf as if it were fact.  

 

Well no, there are the countless examples of divine healling, power of prayer, transformed lives, supernatural encounters with angels and demons on top of the divine nature of the Bible.  Your statement that the Bible is just a bunch of stories of magic is one of ignorance.  At the very least, you have to accept the Bible as a historical record.   Hundreds of archaeological finds have been made to SUPPORT not disprove the Bible.  The Bible also has hundreds of fullfilled prophecies that would be astronomically impossible as a whole to write off as mere concidence.

And just today, you have this story:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/03/ex-fbi-employee-claims-saw-angels-at-flight-3/

 

Course, in your brainwashed mind, you have to automatically reject it and claim that she is a liar even though you have ZERO proof to make such a claim.

TWD39 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

The only evidence you have for your god is a really old book. Evidence that the bible is fiction? Read it. You have evidence that god is real? Outside of just the bible? Or is everything you have reliant on a book that tells stories of magic? So far you have just made assertions that god created A B & C with no evidence whatsoever. I am open to consider any evidence you might have but don't start regurgitating bible verses at me. It has as much credibility as someone telling me Hogwarts is real and reading the Harry Potter series to me or perhaps a better analogy is someone telling me that Grendel is real and reading from Beowulf as if it were fact.  

 

Well no, there are the countless examples of divine healling, power of prayer, transformed lives, supernatural encounters with angels and demons on top of the divine nature of the Bible.  Your statement that the Bible is just a bunch of stories of magic is one of ignorance.  At the very least, you have to accept the Bible as a historical record.   Hundreds of archaeological finds have been made to SUPPORT not disprove the Bible.  The Bible also has hundreds of fullfilled prophecies that would be astronomically impossible as a whole to write off as mere concidence.

And just today, you have this story:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/03/ex-fbi-employee-claims-saw-angels-at-flight-3/

 

Course, in your brainwashed mind, you have to automatically reject it and claim that she is a liar even though you have ZERO proof to make such a claim.

 

Um, she is suffering from PTSD so severely that she had to leave her job. Which explanation is more likely, that she didn't see angels and her believing she did is a psychological issue or that she saw legions of invisible angels which no one else could see, don't show up on any of the millions of pictures taken that day, left no radar signature and completely undetectable to everyone and all technology? 

I once met a man who told me that the government planted insect eggs into him and that the insects were hatching and eating their way out. Should I have believed he was telling the truth? I do believe that he sincerely believed every word he said, but I would have been quite shocked to see a bug eat its way out of his skin. Millions of people say they saw a wide variety of things from the lochness monster to big foot to aliens to angels etc. Some might be outright lying, others might have psychological issues and some might have simply fooled themselves.

As a hunter, I have often fooled myself into believing I saw the animal I sought, believing that I could see it moving and 100% convinced until I got closer or got a better view and realized it was a log. Should I believe that I did see the animal and it transformed into a log? Obviously not, the human mind takes small clues and fills in the details and it is perfectly possible to convince yourself you are seeing something that isn't really there. Unfortunately, by reacting to those details many people get shot every year in hunting accidents when other hunters are mistaken for game animals. 

When the brain is under stress things can get worse, and being a first responder to a plane crash is definitely a very stressful environment. Go out into the woods alone on a dark night and you will see all sorts of shit that isn't there, which is why I don't watch scary movies. Not because I actually believe some monster is going to come kill me, but when you are in the middle of a dark woods focusing on trying to get yourself out without becoming lost the last thing you need is your mind making you jumpy and elevating your adrenaline levels. 

Eyewitness accounts are notoriously inaccurate. Read the depositions of any murder trial where there were multiple eyewitnesses, rather large details will vary from person to person even if they all agree on who the killer was. Are they lying about the details? Doubtful, probably they were just put through such strong shock that they are not remembering specifics clearly, their minds fill in the blanks. 

I'm also willing to bet that in your own life you have some memory that you share with someone and if you were to discuss it in detail with them the memories are not identical. Say for example the two of you were going to make a short youtube clip of a reenactment and wanted every detail perfect- no doubt when you discussed those details you will find that your two memories of the experience are slightly or even significantly different. Is one of you lying? Of course not, memory just simply is not perfect. 

So the basic question is are you going to believe the implausible simply because someone says they saw it? If you are, then you have to believe in a lot of things. Eyewitness testimony might tell you where to look for evidence, but in and of itself is not conclusive proof of anything. Especially when future surveys of the area show nothing to support the claim. Someone else on here is probably in a better position to offer suggested reading material but many psychologists have studied this area and we have a decent understanding of how our mind can create false memories. But for some laymen explanations you might want to start here http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050205130345.htm There are plenty of books on the subject if you are interested in learning more. Of course, that requires you to have an open mind to explanations other than "magic! angels! it was god!" 

 

So back to the bible. Exactly which prophecy has been fulfilled? Do you have any verifiable evidence of a person being divinely healed, say for example an amputee growing an arm back? We have had countless theists on here making similar claims and offering examples, every single one has been thoroughly debunked. For some reason these miraculous healings never happen around medical technology or a camera. God must really be cameraphobic.  

 

I'm out of time unfortunately before my vacation.  You silly atheists will always come up with some reason why evidence is invalid.  I once presented with detailed medical records, photos and testimony from doctors a healing of a man who was raised from the dead.  Then the atheists suddenly demanded that it didn't count because the story had not appeared in medical journals. 

 

You'll always find a way to not believe miracles because Satan has you so brainwashed.  Really sad.

  .. coming up with some reason ..

you big sillies wrote:

  .. coming up with some reason ..

 

   Come on over and see the board again . . .

If evolution was the true origin of life, we would function just like animals, souless creatures acting only on instinct, eating, defecating and reproducing.  I certainly don't see a monkey get teary eyed over appreciating a beautitful sunset.  Evolution would have resulted in a realm of bleak ugliness, not a rainbow of beautiful colors.