In Defense of a Kind God
Offline I've noticed that atheists tend to be a glass half empty person when it comes to discussions on God. They put extreme focus on the negative, declaring God to be a brute, unjust, unloving, unmeriful Creator as it this perspective somehow validates the notion that God is a man-made construct.
I'm here to tilt things back a bit in the other directions. Over the weekend, I was reminded on just how GOOD God is when reflecting on the gifts of God. God has given us quite a lot to make it through this life without being completely miserable.
Here are a few in no particular order:
1. Gift of Sleep - Sleep is a wonderful invention. Not only does it allow our bodies to recharge and renew energies, sleep gives us an opportunity to shut off from the world. No matter how tough my life is, I can always look forward to 6-8 hours a night escaping from reality.
2. Laughter - God gave us this ability to have a physical release called laughter that for a moment, brings happiness and joy. Science can only explain the mechanism behind the act. There are well documented medical benefits to having a good laugh as well.
3. Taste buds - we have up to 8,000 taste buds designed to give us sensations of pleasure with certain tastes. God certainly didn't have to do this. Taste of food is not necessary to substain the human body. Taste doesn't matter to the digestive system. But we have taste to enjoy a wide variety of foods.
4. Sex - I don't think anyone will argue with this one. Sex is an amazing creation. Our society is obsessed with it. On a physical level, sex offers many benefits such as stress reduction and lower blood pressure. It also serves to bring an emotional bond to a couple on a level that can't be experienced any other way. However, whenevery you mess around with this powerful force outside God's requirements then the act has several consequences. Spread of STDS, for example.
Yeah, there are many negatives to this existence. I believe the introduction of sin is the root of these negatives, but God also gave us these gifts to help us make it through each day. Whenever I think about the gifts, I realize just how ridiculous the belief in evolution really is. We would have to be extremely lucky for random events to give us such great things to enjoy. Evolution may have determined the need for a food source, but not the need for taste buds.
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ThunderJones wrote:Please note TWD39 that although some of those questions you replied too, as far as I can tell (and any examination of your replies can show), everything Beyond quoted are things you avoided or evaded giving full or real answers to.
Bite me, I owe you nothing especially if you are going to bury me in replies. I have more important priorities than to waste several hours of my day on a God hating forum. It's merely a time killer to shed light into your darkness.
TWDry, oh lord of strawmen. We don't believe there is a god at all and have no chance of hating the entirely subjective supernatural god concept you have thus far failed to define.
Instead we dislike the intrinsic violence of monotheism, the insults and the threats of violence that are used in place of rational arguments and why shouldn't we? Atheists are generally far more morally consistent than believers. We can't buy off our consciences by snivelling off to jesus everytime we feel guilty about our mistakes. We get to live with those errors forever. In our world harming others is always wrong - it's not just wrong until god sparks up the BBQ to fry skeptics.
Further, you have shed no light at all here. You have simply proved to dubious lurkers that christianity is empirically baseless and when challenged its adherents resort to insults (god haters, evil doers) and threats (god is right to burn evil doers) which clearly brings into focus the core fallacies that pass for the doctrines of your witless cult. Now, TWDry, given you have served your purpose - that of making your faith look utterly moronic - and you are ever so important and busy ..
I have more important priorities than to waste several hours of my day on a God hating forum. It's merely a time killer to shed light into your darkness.
And that is fine . . . Meaning if you are too busy and have other things to do, that is fine.
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Offline I doubt you would be pro-choice if your mother decided her body was more important than a new life.
Hi TWD,
I haven't looked at this thread until now but let me state my views if you'd be so kind.
The majority of atheist forums are Western. We are almost all, in the West, culturally christians.
Our culture speaks of Jesus, the Holy Trinity, Mary, the Three Wise Men, John, Peter, and Paul. This is what we are surrounded by and grew up among. So of course we are going to be focused on Christianity.
It would seem odd otherwise would it not?
However, let me be the first to say that I really hate the Muslim faith far more than any other belief system on the planet.
By far. It's not even a close contest.
I was raised in the church, Southern Baptist. And I was pretty cool with it. Oh, well, most sermons were boring as all get out, but I have a lot of good memories of it. Sunday school, baptisms, church dinners, summer bible school, etc.
I was never molested by anyone or abused in any way.
The first quarter century of my life I was totally down with Christianity. And I knew far more about it than most of my peers. And I would defend it, if anyone spoke out against it. And that happened a few times.
The problem is, is that most people don't ask their religion the tough questions. They don't really put it to the test. And why not, do you suppose? What is there to fear? It's God after all, certainly a little mental stressing on the logical aspects of our religion shouldn't be a cause of concern to anyone.
Well I decided, at the age of 25, to really start trying to figure out what was...I dunno...reality. To be truthful, I started doing that to make sure I knew I was on a firm path to heaven so I would stay away from H E Double Hockey Sticks.
That decision, at that moment, my belief in religion was doomed.
It took me over 5 years or so to come to that point. But that was the fatal step that led me directly to it.
It's not true, my friend. And once your mind clears, and IT DOES, after you shed that stuff, you get REALLY upset by how it controlled even your innermost thoughts.
I can honestly say that I am a better, more kind, more moral person now because I lost it.
How weird is that? That still fucks with my head.
But it's true.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
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Offline 1. And atheists refuse to prove anything they say. I'm still waiting on hardcore proof that the Bible is fiction.
I gave you links with pretty pictures and a video. Pictures of the excavated village that demonstrated the pyramid builders were not slaves, that they were from all over Egypt and were not "Jews". "Canaanites" would be a more correct term, and I could dredge up proof for that as well. But you didn't bother to view the very short video. Why should I bother with more evidence you won't look at either?
2. You only have to write one reply. I have to respond to a dozen atheists for every one post I make. There's a big difference.
Fine with me. I understand perfectly, having been in discussions with my fellow atheists when I totally disagreed with them. It is difficult and time consuming to respond to everyone. I just ignore some of the posts or try to respond to most everyone in one post.
3. Can you show me once where you took a Christians argument seriously, and actually agreed with them? I doubt it.
Well, showing you would be difficult as I don't recall doing so on this forum. Usually theists come on here to try to convert us which just sets people off. So the arguments can be heated or boring - depending on the mood of the theist and the atheists that day.
I agree with christians who say the world is not a nice, perfect place but we can make a difference with our actions by helping others. Not by attempting to convert them and call that "help". But by serving food without sermons. Helping to find shelter for the homeless without insisting on praying. By being nice to each other. Yeah, I agree with that kind of christian.
FYI, the only religious charity I will donate to is Catholic Charities. Why? Because when my family needed help to feed our children, they showed up with food and no sermons, knowing we were not Catholic and had no intention of attending services. That, is christian charity I can empathize with.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
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Offline I doubt you would be pro-choice if your mother decided her body was more important than a new life.
In reality, my mother had a lot of health problems related to peritonitis she got from a leaking appendix. She did not have an abortion, but did have a number of miscarriages from the infection. If she had decided to have an abortion - or have the operation that removed uterus, ovaries, appendix, fallopian tubes - before I was born, I would not have cared since I wasn't born. But looking back on it, she could only have felt healthier if she had done so rather than conforming to the expectations for having children or my dad's wishes for a son. He finally got one (my brother is 4 years younger than I am) and mom had the operation soon after.
How many more children might she have had? <sarcasm> Think of all those wasted years she could have been in pain and having miscarriage after miscarriage and occasionally succeeding with yet another baby. All those wasted ova. Sigh. </sarcasm>
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
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Offline Even when I was a believer I was pro-choice. I was under the belief that God told people how to live, and it was up to individuals to police their own behavior. Not for people to force that behavior on everyone else.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
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Offline NOTE: THIS IS NOT A RESPONSE TO TWD39.
this is just me stating, for the eternal interwebz record, that i am taking him up on his offer. i am humbly surrendering to him the last word, because he has soundly trounced me with his incredibly masculine superior logic. as a consequence of this, he has promised to leave our now smoldering ruin of a forum, glutted with his unparalleled victory.
he has been the one to bring me and all of rational response squad to its knees. we are now all pissing our pants and crying like little pussy girls. i'm even sucking my thumb as i type. maybe one day, i will even find it in my pathetic, weakling heart to accept the 100% proven, incontrovertibly supported, entirely logical good news of our lord and savior jesus christ, but for now i remain a skeevy little atheist rat, bitterly hanging on to my tattered intellectual pride. oh, damn you, TWD39. i hate you so much. i hate you for being right. and yes, i hate god. please spare us. leave us alone, mighty servant of the living god, spiritual warrior by whom the demons who possess us are hopelessly bound, in jesus' name.
you have won.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
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Offline NOTE: THIS IS NOT A RESPONSE TO TWD39.
this is just me stating, for the eternal interwebz record, that i am taking him up on his offer. i am humbly surrendering to him the last word, because he has soundly trounced me with his incredibly masculine superior logic. as a consequence of this, he has promised to leave our now smoldering ruin of a forum, glutted with his unparalleled victory.
he has been the one to bring me and all of rational response squad to its knees. we are now all pissing our pants and crying like little pussy girls. i'm even sucking my thumb as i type. maybe one day, i will even find it in my pathetic, weakling heart to accept the 100% proven, incontrovertibly supported, entirely logical good news of our lord and savior jesus christ, but for now i remain a skeevy little atheist rat, bitterly hanging on to my tattered intellectual pride. oh, damn you, TWD39. i hate you so much. i hate you for being right. and yes, i hate god. please spare us. leave us alone, mighty servant of the living god, spiritual warrior by whom the demons who possess us are hopelessly bound, in jesus' name.
you have won.
lol. Oh Uhhh... Yeah... You are so right man *cough* *cough*. Man I'm so beaten. >.>
<.<
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
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Offline NOTE: THIS IS NOT A RESPONSE TO TWD39.
this is just me stating, for the eternal interwebz record, that i am taking him up on his offer. i am humbly surrendering to him the last word, because he has soundly trounced me with his incredibly masculine superior logic. as a consequence of this, he has promised to leave our now smoldering ruin of a forum, glutted with his unparalleled victory.
he has been the one to bring me and all of rational response squad to its knees. we are now all pissing our pants and crying like little pussy girls. i'm even sucking my thumb as i type. maybe one day, i will even find it in my pathetic, weakling heart to accept the 100% proven, incontrovertibly supported, entirely logical good news of our lord and savior jesus christ, but for now i remain a skeevy little atheist rat, bitterly hanging on to my tattered intellectual pride. oh, damn you, TWD39. i hate you so much. i hate you for being right. and yes, i hate god. please spare us. leave us alone, mighty servant of the living god, spiritual warrior by whom the demons who possess us are hopelessly bound, in jesus' name.
you have won.
Sarcasm will get you nowhere, and love does more good than hate.
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Offline
Sarcasm will get you nowhere, and love does more good than hate.
Since when have you demonstrated any sort of "love" on here ?
And before you start bitching about negative responses, re-read the very first post that was ever made on this thread, by me, to you. I was totally respectful and say that if belief gave your life meaning that I saw nothing wrong with it.
Since then, the thread and your responses have gone to shit.
So tell me TWD, do you LOVE all of us ? Do you pray for all of us ?
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
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Offline So tell me TWD, do you LOVE all of us ? Do you pray for all of us ?
Oh, please, no, not that! Satan will leave me and then what will I do? How can I barbeque kittens with a straight face? What about the dogs I beat every day? No, no, not the green puke! arggggghhhhhh.............
ralph.
Sorry about that. Did I hit your shoes?
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
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Offline iwbiek wrote:NOTE: THIS IS NOT A RESPONSE TO TWD39.
this is just me stating, for the eternal interwebz record, that i am taking him up on his offer. i am humbly surrendering to him the last word, because he has soundly trounced me with his incredibly masculine superior logic. as a consequence of this, he has promised to leave our now smoldering ruin of a forum, glutted with his unparalleled victory.
he has been the one to bring me and all of rational response squad to its knees. we are now all pissing our pants and crying like little pussy girls. i'm even sucking my thumb as i type. maybe one day, i will even find it in my pathetic, weakling heart to accept the 100% proven, incontrovertibly supported, entirely logical good news of our lord and savior jesus christ, but for now i remain a skeevy little atheist rat, bitterly hanging on to my tattered intellectual pride. oh, damn you, TWD39. i hate you so much. i hate you for being right. and yes, i hate god. please spare us. leave us alone, mighty servant of the living god, spiritual warrior by whom the demons who possess us are hopelessly bound, in jesus' name.
you have won.
Sarcasm will get you nowhere, and love does more good than hate.
Was it love that wiped out 99.9999% of the human race in the flood?
Was it love that slaughtered without mercy Eygpt's firstborn?
Was it love that told people to stone gays, sacrifice innocent animals, and commit genocide?
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
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Offline TWD39 wrote:iwbiek wrote:NOTE: THIS IS NOT A RESPONSE TO TWD39.
this is just me stating, for the eternal interwebz record, that i am taking him up on his offer. i am humbly surrendering to him the last word, because he has soundly trounced me with his incredibly masculine superior logic. as a consequence of this, he has promised to leave our now smoldering ruin of a forum, glutted with his unparalleled victory.
he has been the one to bring me and all of rational response squad to its knees. we are now all pissing our pants and crying like little pussy girls. i'm even sucking my thumb as i type. maybe one day, i will even find it in my pathetic, weakling heart to accept the 100% proven, incontrovertibly supported, entirely logical good news of our lord and savior jesus christ, but for now i remain a skeevy little atheist rat, bitterly hanging on to my tattered intellectual pride. oh, damn you, TWD39. i hate you so much. i hate you for being right. and yes, i hate god. please spare us. leave us alone, mighty servant of the living god, spiritual warrior by whom the demons who possess us are hopelessly bound, in jesus' name.
you have won.
Sarcasm will get you nowhere, and love does more good than hate.
Was it love that wiped out 99.9999% of the human race in the flood?
Was it love that slaughtered without mercy Eygpt's firstborn?
Was it love that told people to stone gays, sacrifice innocent animals, and commit genocide?
Is it love to not punish the wicked? Should we just smile and say that's ok to the dude who commited the Batman massacre? Love and judgement are two separate things. God does love man, but He also hates sin. Judgement is the balance between the two.
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Offline Is it love to not punish the wicked? Should we just smile and say that's ok to the dude who commited the Batman massacre? Love and judgement are two separate things. God does love man, but He also hates sin. Judgement is the balance between the two.
If a world wide flood did somehow magically occur then many babies would have died.
If the parents are wicked, is it love to kill an innocent, non-wicked, 3 month old child?
Come on, Dude. I posted that most people stay religious because they refuse to ask the tough questions about their religion. Even to themselves in their own thoughts.
Don't give religion a free ride in your brain. If God is real then what is the harm in applying your logic to it and refusing to allow it any slack?
Once you are brave enough to really look at this religion you've been fed since birth and question it without holding back then you'll finally be on track to become your own person.
Ask yourself this. If you were god, would you have done it this way? Created everything the way christianity supposedly says it has been made?
If someone was not wicked but simply was not convinced that you did exist, would you create hell and leave them to suffer for an eternity?
Would you really?
I wouldn't. I'd just blip them out of existence or something if I had some sort of rules to get to heaven.
Who has ever deserved an ETERNITY of unbearable agony?
Hitler?
Naw, a billion years would be more than enough.
How about a billion years for every person who died in the holocaust?
That's pleeeeenty long enough.
But according to the bible a thousand, million, trillion years is just the beginning of eternal torment.
What kind of sick fuck would do that?
A loving god?
What?
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
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Offline
Is it love to not punish the wicked? Should we just smile and say that's ok to the dude who commited the Batman massacre? Love and judgement are two separate things. God does love man, but He also hates sin. Judgement is the balance between the two.
RIGHT. Drown the whole entire world, but it was nothing personal.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
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Offline ThunderJones wrote:TWD39 wrote:iwbiek wrote:NOTE: THIS IS NOT A RESPONSE TO TWD39.
this is just me stating, for the eternal interwebz record, that i am taking him up on his offer. i am humbly surrendering to him the last word, because he has soundly trounced me with his incredibly masculine superior logic. as a consequence of this, he has promised to leave our now smoldering ruin of a forum, glutted with his unparalleled victory.
he has been the one to bring me and all of rational response squad to its knees. we are now all pissing our pants and crying like little pussy girls. i'm even sucking my thumb as i type. maybe one day, i will even find it in my pathetic, weakling heart to accept the 100% proven, incontrovertibly supported, entirely logical good news of our lord and savior jesus christ, but for now i remain a skeevy little atheist rat, bitterly hanging on to my tattered intellectual pride. oh, damn you, TWD39. i hate you so much. i hate you for being right. and yes, i hate god. please spare us. leave us alone, mighty servant of the living god, spiritual warrior by whom the demons who possess us are hopelessly bound, in jesus' name.
you have won.
Sarcasm will get you nowhere, and love does more good than hate.
Was it love that wiped out 99.9999% of the human race in the flood?
Was it love that slaughtered without mercy Eygpt's firstborn?
Was it love that told people to stone gays, sacrifice innocent animals, and commit genocide?
Is it love to not punish the wicked? Should we just smile and say that's ok to the dude who commited the Batman massacre? Love and judgement are two separate things. God does love man, but He also hates sin. Judgement is the balance between the two.
So all the all those children God killed deserved to die? Genocide is ok? Stoning gays is ok? This is what you just said.
The thing is, God is not going to smite that Batman killer. I'm talking about innocents, and disporportional punishment.
Eternity of absolute suffering is infinitely worse than any crime could ever deserve.
Think about it. ETERNITY. Forever. There is never a time where the debt is paid, according to you. If that is not disporportional punishment, than nothing is.
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
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In that context, yes I would. What's your point anyways?
Your answer in the affirmative just made my point for me. Even the fact that you claim to be baffled by the question is quite telling.
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Is it love to not punish the wicked? Should we just smile and say that's ok to the dude who commited the Batman massacre?
Maybe God told the killer that the movie theater was filled with Amalekites.
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Is it love to not punish the wicked? Should we just smile and say that's ok to the dude who commited the Batman massacre? Love and judgement are two separate things. God does love man, but He also hates sin. Judgement is the balance between the two.
dichotomy. The vast majority of people never commit any real crimes beyond such dire evils as getting angry when frustrated or wanking in the shower while thinking about Jessica Alba. They cannot be compared to mass murderers.
It's not possible that a hypothetical supernatural prime mover could feel human love and that this human love could be the greatest thing that prime mover could feel. Yours is an objective truth claim that cannot be proven and must be discarded as assertion.
Humans punish social cheaters who get one up on us. Ascribing judgement to an exo universal entity when it's so obviously the product of human ethics and culture is farcical.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120718074035.htm
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Offline Your answer in the affirmative just made my point for me. Even the fact that you claim to be baffled by the question is quite telling.
Yeah. That answer made my skin crawl a little. If morality is anything that god tells you to do, and the only way you know what god tells you to do is from the interpretations of religious figures....
The holocaust is only the beginning if enough people fall for that kind of logic.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
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Offline TWD39 wrote:
In that context, yes I would. What's your point anyways?
Your answer in the affirmative just made my point for me. Even the fact that you claim to be baffled by the question is quite telling.
Yeah but since I am not Hebrew and not living in the OT, and I am under the new covenant, it will never happen. You prove nothing with your stupid atheist games.
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Offline ProzacDeathWish wrote:Your answer in the affirmative just made my point for me. Even the fact that you claim to be baffled by the question is quite telling.
Yeah. That answer made my skin crawl a little. If morality is anything that god tells you to do, and the only way you know what god tells you to do is from the interpretations of religious figures....
Given the bible was written by religious figures and not by an actual god, the arbitrary and morally relative nature of its precepts become understandable. Morality cannot be outsourced to an undefined and unknowable god, nor the officers of a cult.
Without taking personal responsibility to harm no other, we wind up with the Taliban, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Thirty Years War, witch burning and whatever else passes for 'morality' in a world devoid of self ownership.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Offline Yeah but since I am not Hebrew and not living in the OT, and I am under the new covenant, it will never happen. You prove nothing with your stupid atheist games.
Wait a minute, so your making the rules now ? What if god reveals a whole new set of principles and ideas ? Then what are you gonna tell god ? Sorry god, no can do, that was in the good old days when we did all that infant killing and back then it was ok, but not anymore. Right god ? Right ? Right god ?
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
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Offline Yeah but since I am not Hebrew and not living in the OT, and I am under the new covenant, it will never happen. You prove nothing with your stupid atheist games.
No, you're still obeying "god" under his current policy.
If your god said, "Scratch the NT, we're going back to the OT way of doing things." by your own admittance, you would obey.
If even god told you to burn your parents, spouse, children alive at the stake.
Damn, Christians...you scary.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
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Evolution would have resulted in a realm of bleak ugliness, not a rainbow of beautiful colors.
Why would the process of evolution have resulted in a world of bleak ugliness? Those beautiful colours you love so much are used by plants to attract insects, monkeys and us.
They are advertisements selected by environmental pressure on the life cycles of symbiotic organic life forms.
Do you really hate the world so much, TWD? Do you find yourself and all those around you to be despicable and vile?
Personally, I like a person to have some flaws - nothing too horrific but I value a good weakness to forgive. What about you?
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Offline TWD39 wrote:Yeah but since I am not Hebrew and not living in the OT, and I am under the new covenant, it will never happen. You prove nothing with your stupid atheist games.
No, you're still obeying "god" under his current policy.
If your god said, "Scratch the NT, we're going back to the OT way of doing things." by your own admittance, you would obey.
If even god told you to burn your parents, spouse, children alive at the stake.
Damn, Christians...you scary.
Ahh I was preparing a nice response to your seemingly polite sincere original entrance, but now I see clearly that you are just the like the rest. You claim to be more moral now trading the Christian faith of love, kindness and compassion for profanity and wasting time on internet forums tearing down Christians. If you find that a better sense of morality, that is scary to me.
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Offline TWD39 wrote:
In that context, yes I would. What's your point anyways?
Your answer in the affirmative just made my point for me. Even the fact that you claim to be baffled by the question is quite telling.
Now since I was kind enough to play your hypothetical game , you can do the same for me.
Assume that God really exists. Will you bow down and worship Him for eternal life, or give Him the finger and choose to burn in hell forever with Satan?
Answer the question, no dodging, no squirming. I answered your crap question, and probably won't ever hear the end of it, so you can answer mine now.
I'm done with this forum for the weekend so don't expect any replies for awhile. Give ya time to think that one over.
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Offline Ahh I was preparing a nice response to your seemingly polite sincere original entrance, but now I see clearly that you are just the like the rest. You claim to be more moral now trading the Christian faith of love, kindness and compassion for profanity and wasting time on internet forums tearing down Christians. If you find that a better sense of morality, that is scary to me.
You are inventing reasons to discount me.
Just be brazen for once and question your presuppositions.
Do you know what that means?
It means you are assuming something to be true without proving it to be true. You are assuming that the religious beliefs you currently subscribe to are true based on nothing other than, "well I was taught this, so I'm going to assume it's true even though I can't justify my beliefs."
Forget me. Forget this discussion. I'm not asking you to declare anything like, "zomg, I was wrong, you are right."
Just think about it.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
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TWDry, oh lord of strawmen. We don't believe there is a god at all and have no chance of hating the entirely subjective supernatural god concept you have thus far failed to define.
Instead we dislike the intrinsic violence of monotheism, the insults and the threats of violence that are used in place of rational arguments and why shouldn't we? Atheists are generally far more morally consistent than believers. We can't buy off our consciences by snivelling off to jesus everytime we feel guilty about our mistakes. We get to live with those errors forever. In our world harming others is always wrong - it's not just wrong until god sparks up the BBQ to fry skeptics.
Further, you have shed no light at all here. You have simply proved to dubious lurkers that christianity is empirically baseless and when challenged its adherents resort to insults (god haters, evil doers) and threats (god is right to burn evil doers) which clearly brings into focus the core fallacies that pass for the doctrines of your witless cult. Now, TWDry, given you have served your purpose - that of making your faith look utterly moronic - and you are ever so important and busy, why don't you fuck off back to whichever pew you crawled out from under.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Funny how many times that TWD has used the terms, moron, idiot, and retorts like "bite me" but simply can not stand ANY type of perceived ad homs.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
A pathetic trap question ? How do you know what is applicable and what is not ? Did god send you a fax ? You explained nothing "perfectly" you just dodged another question.
Since we're gonna trade insults here, how about I say your a chickenshit hypocrite ?
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Here to tilt things back in the other direction ?
Boy, you sure fucked that one all up didn't you ?
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
I have been on several christian forums. They usually do just like you, dodge questions, throw around horseshit verses, and CLAIM to win the argument when they can not hold their own.
I don't usually generalize people, but that seems to be a very common trait among christians.
But, since you don't mind bracketing Atheists into all the same category, then you should be able to take it as well as dish it out. Christians are two-faced, self righteous, hypocrites and ignorant. ALL OF THEM.
Is that true or false ? False of course, but if your gonna throw out those types of generalities, then I'll be happy to return the favor. Now post some more bullshit and we can keep going.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
What a load of crap. If it was a simple case of not believing, you people would not be festering your rott on dozens of message boards preaching your anti-Christian rhetoric, attacking Christianity exclusively and thumbing your nose at anything that is positive from my religion. Atheists are relentless trying to destroy freedom of religion. I just read tonight that one atheist jerk is trying to ruin a fun concert for a lot of people simply because the artist is Michael W Smith. Disugsting and WRONG.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/michael-w-smith-says-atheist-lawsuit-threat-is-absurd-78569/
Atheists are certainly morally inconsistent. Most atheists are pro-abortion while condemning God for doing the same thing in a one time act. In fact, you don't have a foundation for morality. Who is to say your idea of morality is more right than other person? Majority rule? Oh no, that's a logical fallacy.
I'm not surprised at all by your comments. Every single statement from you atheists is in the negative. Negative is the opposite of positive. I have not. I do not. I can not. blah blah blah.... Of course the darkness is not going to acknowledge the light beause the darkness hates the light. Witless cult? Dude, I would be a moron for not believing. I've encountered the supernatural, and blessed to be part of miracles that defy all your laws of science. I've had Christian brothers pray over me, and speak out my exact problems with absolutely no foreknowledge of my struggles. You are the close minded one since you don't recognize that there is a lot out there that you or your junk science can not explain. My God has healed people and cure people from drug addiction overnight. What can atheism offer? Nothing but arrogance and death.
Your last comment only proves my point even more. God hater. You don't like my comments, then don't READ them.
I would gladly drop my generalities if I could just meet one atheist who came across nice and friendly. Someone who can politely agree to disagree, have a difference of opinion without foaming at the mouth and spewing profantiy. I have not, and certainly not on this forum.
Oh sorry you are always so positive, never negative at all are you? what light are you talking about really? All christians that i know of are hypocrites of the most extreme there is not light vs darkness here, as for us being closed minded? Really I am supposed to take your word for supernatural encounter with out an ounce of evidence? None what so ever that can be verified at all? Right and we are closed minded what a load of crock, you made up your mind that it was a supernatural encounter (most likely a lie as that is what christians do most of the time anyways)
What does atheism offer? Your right nothing, you simply have to take responsibility for your decisions and your choices in life, I don't get to blame god or the devil. What I do and how I live my life is up to me. I make my life worth living, I don't need a god for that, I don't need to believe in fairy tales and myths to make my life livable, if you do, great, but don't expect me to believe you and your wild stories of encounters with the supernatural with out an single bit of evidence, just your word. Sorry I am not that gullible, you might be since you believe in supernatural things with out any evidence, but hey that is your right, just as it is my right not to believe you. Even more so it is my right to speak out against those that want me to live the way they want me to live because their god told them so.
for proving my point. You posit 40 acres of strawmen, accuse us of being immoral when you have no idea what morality actually is, insist all our statements are negative yet do so from your own perspective of what is negative and positive without acknowledging your subjective or relative position, you accuse us of being 'darkness' as opposed to the 'light' of your pitiful dogma, the purveyor of which plans to burn all those who have trouble accepting unsupported arguments alive, eternally.
Hilariously, you've even encountered the supernatural and been blessed to be part of miracles - no doubt as part of some sort of charismatic personality cult replete with a mirror ball, too-loud band, a yelling clergyman and prominent credit card machines. You claim all science is junk science as you type at me through your silicon processor, you claim your god has healed people - apparently ignoring the efforts of real doctors and real researchers who spend endless years fighting to save real life in real time only to have the credit served up to the invisible god-man.
You then resort again to ad hominem - I am a god hater. But there is no god. I simply dislike your unsubstantiated driveling behind which lurks the ever present threat of the christian faith expressed by you thus.
I ask you this, TWDry - what can christianity offer but bald assertions and threats? Imagine if we were having a debate and instead of offering me proof you pulled out a gun and pointed it at me and said agree I'm right or I shoot? Would you consider that to be a device of rational argument? Have you ever wondered why your doctrine is based first on insult (humans are evil, vile, disgusting) and second on threat (believe or die)? If there are some, why not just offer cogent proofs? Are there any?
Next you say:
But there's this problem with the prison stats in the U.S...
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
And bear in mind that those without religion constitute around 15 per cent of America's population (I concede the figures are rubbery but atheists and agnostics are still massively under represented in US penitentiaries as a proportion of their overall population.
Sorry for telling you to fuck off - I took offense at your assault on Thunder Jones. You see, that's called in-group morality. I apply it to my people in their defense and you apply it to yours. The difference is that you insist your in-group ethics are a universal moral constant while I believe morality is the product of neurology and culture.
In any case, even though you seem annoying to me (yes, I'm sure it's mutual), I don't believe you deserve eternal torment and I would never worship any contrived human god concept one of whose alleged future actions was to be barbecuing the arse of a dickhead named TWDry.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Government money for a religious message. That may be protected, I hope the guy with the lawsuit did his research.
You would feel exactly the same way if your town spent money on a fundamentalist Muslim artist (who would undoubtedly at LEAST separate the women from the men, or possibly not allow any to attend at all). The separation of church and state applies to everybody, Christians included...you did know that, right?
Everybody is morally inconsistent regardless of religion. However, the foundation for many religions is
1. Take ancient text full of fallacies
2. Choose what I like, and discard what I don't.
For me, it's a lot more complicated than that. Ultimately we should all live in a way to lead fulfilling lives without treading on others. When a conflict arises between two people, sometimes one is right, and other times they're both wrong.
As far as abortion, I think it's a topic that requires serious discussion, because it's a very difficult and delicate issue. However, simply put, I don't think I can reasonably say a single thing about somebody who wants to abort a fetus that has yet to experience brain activity. This fetus has never felt, and would not feel the procedure, and would be none-the-wiser to how close they were from experiencing their own life.
Having said that though, I think it would be foolish to have this discussion at the moment because of how the anti-choice side operates. All too often I hear stories that just disgust me. A 9 year old girl in South America, repeatedly raped by her stepfather and pregnant with twins. Without an abortion there was 0 chance that anybody would survive the pregnancy, herself or the twins. The procedure goes through.....aaaaaand her mother and the doctors involved are all excommunicated from the Catholic church. By NO definition can that be called pro-life.
The sole cause of this sort of ridiculousness is that people make decisions about these delicate issues not by their mental faculties and constructive discussion, but on what the bible says. You spent a few posts in this thread trying to justify some mass genocide (including of children) commanded by your god. Of course it's about events that never actually took place, but since you believe that they did, then it IS despicable that you have the audacity to say that it was ok. Slaughtering and showing no mercy to innocent children (who ARE aware of the goings on around them) who may have just watched their parents get killed is ok, because god said so. Saving the life of a 9 year old who has already gone through YEARS of unthinkable torture though, no that's not right.
Theists - If your god is omnipotent, remember the following: He (or she) has the cure for cancer, but won't tell us what it is.
oh that's a huge laugh, you little shite. why don't you at least browse past threads a bit before you make an ass of yourself? various people on here throughout the years have given hell to almost ANY kind of irrational belief. i've gone toe-to-toe with a conservative jew on several occasions. various people have attacked panentheism. we have one weird occultist guy who has been a punching bag here for several years, actually earning our respect because he doesn't whine like a little bitch when taken to task. one of our veteran posters on hiatus, BobSpence, has often leveled strong criticism against buddhism, since he spent time in cambodia. islam is constantly being railed against here, one guy even used to do it full time, and yes, we're all still alive. in fact, while we're at it,
[rant] to any muslims reading this, the quran is a fantasy, the incident of the satanic verses happened, muhammad was an epileptic murderous dictator and nothing more, allah doesn't exist, and the imams hussein and hasan frequently had butt-sex with each other. trace my i.p., come and find me, and i'll beat the holy shit out of you with a tire jack. also, i'm sure i can use a gun at least as well as you can, and i have a neighbor three houses down who collects old czechoslovak assault rifles and hates muslims with a passion. so fuck you. [/end rant]
the only reason christians get it more than most here is because christians keep coming here acting like dicks. also, most of us live in countries with a christian majority, and in said countries the christians are always trying to remake the laws to their liking.
mm-hm. god knows the christians have kept that sacred right safe wherever they've had total control...
LOL!!!!! oh, my my my, oh fuck me, that's funny. i would like to shake that motherfucker's hand. even in the days when i was an evangelical christian, i would have liked to shake that motherfucker's hand. and it has nothing to do with his religion. it's because michael w. smith fucking SUCKS. i would do the same with plenty of bands that are not christian, let's see...creed, nickelback, dave matthews, sarah mclachlan, pink, lady gaga, madonna, pink, every rapper ever "featured" in a song, pink, bon jovi, guns n' roses, pink, ac/dc, kenny chesney, zac brown, alan jackson, and fucking PINK.
you mean pro-choice. just because somebody thinks a woman should choose what happens to her body doesn't mean he's saying, "oh, you should definitely scrape that thing outta there, go for it!" personally, i find the idea of an abortion sickening and infinitely sad, but until i know what it's like to carry a child that is unwanted for some reason, particularly a traumatic reason like rape, i just don't think i have the right to say, "fuck you, you're wrong for wanting this."
we don't condemn god for anything, since that would make as much sense as condemning the galactic empire for blowing up alderaan. we condemn assholes like YOU for having such a blinkered idea, then lambasting the rest of us with it and trying to bring that shit into the government.
yet morality we have. funny how that works...
yeah. the much more logical choice is to refer to a 2,000 year-old old book written for desert dwellers.
yup. in other words, REALITY. life is mostly arrogance and death, usually death caused by arrogance. yet still, i'm happy--happy because i've accepted reality. when i was a christian, i was in constant misery because my own experience of the world didn't jive with the book or the popular rhetoric. worse than that, i was a dick to everyone around me who didn't think like i did, and that made me even more miserable, because, despite my cynical, misanthropic exterior, i like people, and i like them to like me.
now, however, i'm happily married, with a beautiful son, and i'm thankful every moment of every day. i'm not thankful to anybody. just thankful. thankful that i'm not starving, homeless, or jobless, and savoring every moment of it, because i know it could all change at any moment. i could lose everything, through my own stupidity, or someone else's, or just through the blind forces of nature. i don't look for any meaning in the whole mess, because a meaning is not necessary if you accept it for what it is, namely, that it is. period.
stop being a dick and enjoy the fucking ride.
i seriously doubt anyone here likes your comments, and since your advice to those people is not to read them, then i guess nobody here will read them. which makes your presence here pretty pointless, doesn't it? so i guess you can go your merry way...
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
No, no, no. that is sooo yesterday. God tweets him, of course.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Okay, TWD39 if you were an Old Testament Hebrew and God told you to go, take your sword, and start slaughtering Amalekite babies ...would you do it ?
TWDry may not recognise the language of personal integrity but the rest of us certainly do.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
More than likely he'll just dodge that one too. He'll start pissing and moaning about persecution and how the question can not apply.
Funny how theists like Luminon, Teralek, Eloise and FurryCatHerder on here get respect and are pretty much treated like part of the community.
Which sort of discredits TWD's assertion that we are all just negative people on the attack.
But of course, one thing a lot of christians do, is when they see they can not win the argument, they resort to the old " they're just picking on me" routine.
I find it funny that the whole christian majority is constantly trying to shove their agendas and their political fucking nonsense down our throats, but everytime someone disagrees with them, they suddenly have to take the moral high ground and claim persecution.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Perfectly ok for all these christian fucks to call for the boycott of everything from Harry Potter books and movies to Oreo cookies right ?
Perfectly ok for christians to try and FORCE creationism into the classrooms right ?
Perfectly ok for christians to boycott Planned Parenthood while simultaneously bitching about people on welfare.
Perfectly ok for christians to tell women they have no choice over their bodies, irregardless of whether they have been raped or whether their lives are in danger right ?
Perfectly ok for christians to constantly push for "faith based initiatives" and then bitch about other people's rights that don't think like them right ?
If you guys had total control of this country, you would be no different than Iran.
So don't hand me that bullshit.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
In that context, yes I would. What's your point anyways?
Wow, another atheist with a foul tongue who attacks like a total jerk. Why am I not surprised? lol And don't give me that line about you being an equal opportunity religion basher. Every freaking atheist forum has topics that are overwhelmingly attacking Christianity. Have you studied the Quran and Hindiusm for years to point out flaws in every single verse? I doubt it, but the Bible has been savaged by atheist scum bugs.
Who gives a rip about your musical tastes? Plenty of people like MWS and I happen to think he is a talented performer. It's not right that one whinebag gets to end the concert for the majority. Let me guess, you probably think ALL Christian artists suck despite the fact that several bands hit the top ten secular charts like Red and Fireflight.
I doubt you would be pro-choice if your mother decided her body was more important than a new life.
Most of these questions were asked weeks ago, and were in DIRECT RESPONSE to YOUR STATEMENTS. You do not have an excuse for not atleast acknowledging them eventually. You are the one making a claim, you are the one who started this thread. You are the one who is responsible for your own argument.
LOL. You are the one who started this thread. I again ask, why are you even here then? God hating is incorrect, this forum is for those who disbelieve in god, and for those who dont to discuss with them. Something you can't see to get through your thick skull is that not everyone who is atheist automatically agrees with eachother.
I thought insults were against your Christian morality? Is that no longer the case? My post was civil and not meant as an attack, just a statement of fact.
Contrary to "shedding light into my darkness" as you have just claimed arrogantly, you have failed to adhere to the most basic principles of discussion.
You:
1) Refuse to carry the burden of proof, which all claim-makers in REAL discussions gladly take, because the person making the claim is the one asking for a change of position.
2) Resort to strawman arguments, and cherry-pick our arguments under the guise of "oh noes I dont have enough time in the day". Guess what. We all have busy lives too. If you are going to start a thread, you need to be ready to deal with the consequences of your claims. Either make solid arguments, or reply more.
3) Using arguments and attacks with no basis in reality, and continuing to take some higher moral position that does not exist. You are not exempt from proper discussion if you want your views taken seriously.
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
What a load. You are one to talk about not reading comments! Yet again you are TELLING us what WE believe. You don't know our positions on any issue besides the existence of your God, EXPECT FOR WHEN WE SPECIFICALLY STATE THEM.
You cannot mock logic and reason you fool. These are the tools which you have taken advantage of to speak with us, with this technology. If you really think rational arguments hold no water than you have no rationality and your claims are invalid.
If you look back at the progression of this thread you will note that most people started out being basically polite. PaulJohn has beeen friendly, and politely disagreed with you, showing you much evidence and tact, however this is still not enough for you. You are a liar, refusing to even keep to your own statements.
Yet again, you are missing the points of these statements. I maintain that you are cherry-picking and using strawman.
Just because someone is fervent in their arguments against you does not give you an excuse to use strawman arguments if you want to be taken seriously. Atheists can be agressive sometimes BECAUSE OF THE INTOLERANCE AND OPPRESSION THEY FEEL FROM PEOPLE LIKE YOU MAKING LAWS,
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
You have attacked me and called me stupid on a number of occassions. You defended a person who actually suggested that I go commit suicide. Awful. Bite Me is hardly an insult. It's the equivalent of Whatever. I am dismissing your nonsense as biased rants. I thought the forum was atheist vs theist. It's obvious that theists are not welcome here.
1. And atheists refuse to prove anything they say. I'm still waiting on hardcore proof that the Bible is fiction.
2. You only have to write one reply. I have to respond to a dozen atheists for every one post I make. There's a big difference.
3. Can you show me once where you took a Christians argument seriously, and actually agreed with them? I doubt it.
Typical theist dodge. You make 50 claims, get 500 legitimate questions on those claims, have all the time in the world to answer them, and instead whine about being ganged up on by atheists at an atheist site.
With every post you write, my estimation of your intellect and devotion to your beliefs is dropped another degree.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
1) I did not defend that person, I explained that he did not, in fact, tell you to commit suicide. He even said the same thing! Talk about strawman. As for theists not being welcome, anyone is welcoome. Even JeanChauvin, who is more trolly than you could ever be, has over a thousand posts here, despite spewing offensive garbage no one agrees with.
1) YOU are making the claim that GOD IS KIND. OR that THE BIBLE IS PROOF OF ANYTHING. Therefore YOU have the burden of proof. You are making the claim. I am at the default position of agnosticism and the personal opinion of atheism. You are the one asking me to change my views.
2) So your argument against my many counter-arguments is "its too hard to maintain my position because all these people are disputing it at once!"? Respond or acknowledge everyone in one big post, you can take more than 10 minutes to compose it you know.
3) This is funny, because I used to be a Christian, making christian arguments. I take arguments with logic and rationality seriously, if you want me to take arguments without logic and rationality seriously than we have a problem. If a Christian or any Theist made an amazing foolproof claim that I couldn't find flaw with, than I would change my views.
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker