the threat of atheism
Offline Common atheist flaws
the belief that they ( the atheist) has a higher degree of intelligence than a believer, when those, like me, have a college education, and know atheists that dont.
tithes and offerings. The Bible mandates tithes and offerings, but not to pay God, as most think, but to feed the priesthood. Compare that to today. Without tithes, the preacher or church staff could not eat, and the lights Could not stay on.
Atheism also rids an individual of all emotion due to the religious belief that life has no meaning. Atheism leaves no hope in humanity.
it is a flaw that atheists do not think atheism is a religion, when it is just as much as a belief structure as any other religion.
atheism teaches selfishness rather than selflessness
I could go on an on about how atheism is a threat to humanity but I'll leave it here for now.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
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for real, please.
If you want to tell.
lol - yeah it really gets to ya doesn't it?
for the safety of my babies, and not knowing what psychos monitor this board, NO.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Mod edit: Multiple post
Mod edit: Multiple post.
Be brave, God will protect you. Psalm 121: 7 "The LORD will keep you from all harm, he will watch over your life."
You could just fib, but it doesn't matter.
Going back to the previous posts, your intelligence could be limited to just your job or training. Maybe you can do brain surgery but couldn't boil water, however it doesn't matter.
If you have a degree then you could have cheated or hacked the servers and given yourself a diploma. Heck, you could have gotten a diploma from a "mill". Either way it doesn't matter.
The conclusion is that your statements about atheism are completely unsupported and illogical.
My statements about atheism speak complete truth. Atheism causes too much harm on humanity.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Have you applied to MENSA, yet ? Your IQ must be in the upper 2% percent to gain membership, though.
You should study the history of Europe after Christianity became established as the dominant belief. Freedom of religion was not an option unless you enjoyed being burned at the stake.
I'm not denying what "Christians" did. The Bible even accounts for people not of God doing things in the name of God. I'm not talking about "religion" either. I'm talking about a genuine relationship with our creator.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
....sounds boring.
Your statements are your opinions. You believe them to be true but with out facts that support and you ignore facts that disprove them. That makes you an ignoramus
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
refer earlier where I was stating that the ist isn't the problem. The ist is human and fellow man. The ism is the issue.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Christianity is nothing more then what is human. The world operates on what we see and animalism. The book divides the persojn into those two sets of characteristics--one is Christianity and the other isn't. What you've been experiencing in the world isn't Christianty as we understand it's supposed to be. We don'tdecide forothers what is correct or wrong. We merely pesent the findings and leave it to the person to decide for themself.
So, why is Atheism compatable with Christianity----An Atheist can be just as human as any other, and that's all that is required.
We do not find in the book where there is any mention of any person that is supernatural. The interpretation you8 have is an ancient European one,and all they did was attach their religion to a book they knew (and it's stll so) very little about. In dark age years they thought the writings coincideds with their beliefgs and was supposedto be for them---but not so. A European did not write the book--it's a middle eastern writing and mindset. What's going on in the book is not intended to fix the world.The world as is cannot be fixed, it can only be replaced. the animalmind cannot fix the animal mind. Trying to fix the animalmind with the animal mind ends in the same results, as history has proven. That's where Christianity/human comes in, There's nothing else possible to replace the worlds venture with except with what is human, which dosen't fix the problem, it gets rid of it. Wefind the worlds idea of human greatly skewed to meet the demands of it's leaders.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Where's my popcorn...
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
I realize I'm a day and a half late to this party, but hey! What the heck!
Common flaws: That a college education is what makes one smart.
I try my best not to be elitist. The only reason I'm not college educated is due to a financial decision I made. One might say it's always a stupid one, but all of my colleagues are. I managed to (luckily, I admit) end up in a position where I got into a field that typically requires post-secondary education without needing it myself.
This is a good thing. Churches are not interested in evidence based approaches to teaching. When one asks "what is knowledge", it's a more complicated question than you may think. People say "I know this to be true" about a variety of things, but what they actually MEAN, is "I am certain that this is true". To graduate from certainty to knowledge, however, requires justification. Christian churches to not justify what they preach. They merely preach it with an air of certainty, even though they can not justify the accuracy of what they're saying. To pre-empt, by the way, there is no real difference between truth and facts, or either of those and "an accurate statement". How do I know this? Because if a believer tells me "well facts are facts, but they're not the truth", all one needs to do is ask "Is it a fact that Jesus is your saviour?". They either say "yes" or they repeat "it's the truth" without providing anything of substance in explaining the difference between fact and truth.
No it doesn't. I love emotions. I practically live for them. Life has meaning for me now. My car has meaning for me now, even though it will die one day (probably before I do). I just got home from vacation not a week ago. I didn't sit there all week saying "well, this vacation is worthless, because I just have to go back to work when I'm done". Do you require any more analogies for you to recognize how utterly stupid that statement was?
No it isn't. Just because you think so, doesn't mean we do. Christians have an extraordinary skewed perception in this area. They almost always think they know an atheist's own brain better than they themselves do. Atheism is a single position regarding a belief in god (mainly, at a minimum, accepting the null hypothesis, as no compelling evidence for a god has ever been presented). Theists equate that as a belief "system". The reason is, most theists hold a belief that comes packaged with a very large suitcase full of baggage. Due to that, they believe that position regarding a belief in a god must necessarily carry equal baggage. False equivocation. The only thing it changed for me was I don't think god is real anymore, and the only thing that went with it was any belief regarding an afterlife (and not right away either, due to earlier wishful thinking. It left for the same reason, but it took longer to drop that). Atheism is not a belief structure. It's a single position.
No it doesn't. This is the only life I have to my knowledge. I realize that post-death doesn't matter. But due to how I'm evolved, it feels good to do good. You may call it selfish if you want, but if committing otherwise selfless acts (acts that are detrimental personally in every way, except they give you warm fuzzies when you do them) made you feel shitty instead, we would stop doing them. To some people, such a statement may seem alarming, but all that means is that I will continue to do good, unless someone comes in and severely damages my brain chemistry. I think that's not so bad.
Ok. You've done a bad job so far.
Then Steve said unto them, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Homer Simpson for the remission of transgressions, and you'll probably get the gift of morning wood, which is a catch-22, because it's hard to pee and stuff when you've got an erection.
The above statement is just as logical as the one I quoted before it.
Theists - If your god is omnipotent, remember the following: He (or she) has the cure for cancer, but won't tell us what it is.
What a load of crap. Chrisitanity is NOT compatable with atheists. The god of Abraham in that book at best treats outside tribes as guests at best, but most of the time threatens the outsiders and dissenters with punishment, punishes them himself, or sanctions his followers to do it for him. Even the NT Jesus says he brings peace not a sword, and also tells you to abandon your own family if they don't kiss his ass. And at the end of that book the world ends up in a pyre where only his fans get into heaven, say maybe a few Jews, and the rest of humanity gets thrown in hell.
Humans behave like animals because WE ARE ANIMALS. The difference between that old comic book and what sciences like evolutionary biology, neurology and psychology do is tell us how we evolved and why we behave the way we do. That old comic book, like the Koran and OT actually keep humans in their tribal barbaric petty beefs. The secular west actually is the only thing that has kept a leash on religious barbarity.
Yes I am an animal, unlike you, I am not putting myself above evolution like religion does with other life. I am not special to all this. You stupidly have it in your head that because someone doesn't buy that old comic book that those who do not are incapable of being non violent and civil.
Yep I agree, like all other religions in human history, made up crap because humans are afraid of their finite existence.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
The only thing you can rightfully argue is that a label by itself, be it Christian, or Muslim, or Jew and even "atheist" will not automatically make a human do good or bad. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in our evolution, not our labels. But you are dead wrong that atheism is the cause of the world's problems.
We are not ones with holy books with nukes like Christians Muslims and Jews. We don't value theocracies and don't think we should be a "Christian Nation" any more than you'd like living in a "Islamic Nation". We are not the ones trying to control the bodies of women. We are not the ones using laws to discriminate against gays. Christians cant even be bigots without being half assed about it. In Russia they arrest gays. In Saudi Arabia and Iran the state murders them.
The Christian dominionist attitude is what lead to slavery, and why our forgien policy sucks and why time after time we get involved in playing the world's police.
No that does not mean I hate all religious people, but the concept of grouping around what merely amounts to a placebo is the bullshit that creates our species needless tribalism.
I'd say anyone dwelling on antiquated fairy tales in our modern world simply wants to cling to the past. Don't feel bad you arn't the only religious person who does this.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Except lions can and do reason and make decisions, as well as many other animals.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
But their intellect doesn't go far enough or acute enough to reason to be any type other then a predator. The thing is--we can. We can reason to be a carpenter or a plummer and they,re stuck with what they are. We can decide to be help to one another or be haramfull and avoid the consequences. It's what any one of us can do. But, if we let polititicians and clergy decide our mental fixing we have the consequences as can be see today. They have no solution to the mess they created here. This appeared on my monator this morning by O'Reilly. I don't watch or listen to Him but this is a blurb that showed up on this Baltimore dealings.. We're catching on arent we. " Dishonest politicians, foolish pundits, hateful morons leading us into madness. People---it's come time to reclaim your own persons and minds. We've been seeing this stuff for years. Think for yourselves rather then be a pawn in the elitist's gamery. At this time people are what those idiots created people to be, we know, we've been there. It's where the Old Seers were a part of also.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
however, where you are wrong is here: God's Word is eternal and there is NO private interpretation of it. The God of creation is God enough to make sure His Word STAYS eternal. God divinely inspired the scripture. God was ever present at the ecumenical councils.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Common theist flaws
The belief that they (the theist) has a higher degree of intelligence than a non-believer because they believe in a creator.
Theism also rids an individual of all free-thinking due to the religious belief that life has a purpose. Theism leaves no hope for humanity.
It is a flaw that theists think their religion is the one true religion, when they can't prove their belief nor can they disprove other religions.
Theism teaches the followers to serve others because they will be judged by their god for their actions rather than to learn true compassion, love and understanding of others.
I could go on an on about how theism is a threat to humanity but I have more important things to do right now.
Lions are predators because they are carnivores, that has much to do with their physiology and nothing to do with their reasoning ability or lack thereof. As far as social interactions, lions often choose whether to aid other lions, kill them or ignore them. Your random distinction between 'human' and 'animal' side remains arbitrary and meaningless.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Christianity is opposite the precepts of civil government. The Old Seers have little confidence that Atheism will change the world at this time--because it is contrary to the systems in place. The system operators aren't going to tolerate anything that drops a wrench in the gears. so Atheists can expect to be persecuted at some time in the future. Religion as is, is imperative for the system to keep the masses fooled to maintain superiotiy. Governments worldwide have been under way to dictate what to belive and what not to for a long time. Your religion fits the bill to keep the masses fooled. Religion isn't used much anymore for creating wars, but rather used as a "gathering point" to put people on a battle field. Atheists have to wake up and see that the powers that be are sneaking it under their noses. Us Old Seers can see it for what it is. Religions and governments will work together to maintainh the staus quo. Without false religions (superstitions)governments loose leverage over the populations.
So, Go to the website as posted below and study carefully. Consider--JC is about the mental/spiritual not the material and superficial.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
You are dodging. Do you not believe in a God that is God enough to guide and inspire Holy Scripture? You keep spouting euro, however as I said before there is NO private interpretation. God gave us the scripture through man, and He has been ever present throughout. To say one version is better over another is a flaw, and a lack of faith in God.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Re :: A puzzle chases those shadows away
Oh, Any Formatting issues is your tough luck, buckoes
Story Time :: The story of their marriage starts with Indra – the Lord of the Devas.
Now Indra was a very powerful god. He was the king of the Heaven and the ruler of the other Gods. However all this got into his head. He became arrogant and became disrespectful to others.
Indra had a four tusked, beautiful white elephant called Airavatha. Whenever Indra felt like going out of the kingdom, he would occasionally travel on Airavatha.
One such time when Indra was traveling on Airavatha, he met Sage Durvasa coming from the other side.
Sage Durvasa was a powerful sage. As he was immersed in meditation most of the times, he had enormous yogic powers within him However he had one drawback. Sage Durvasa got angry exceptionally fast and also cursed people often.
Sage Durvasa while traveling the world had found a fragrant garland. The flowers of the garland never faded and remained fresh always, unlike earthly flowers! He was carrying the garland with him when he met Indra coming on Airavatha (See:PHOTO).
Sage Durvasa felt that Indra being the King of gods should be given the garland.
On seeing Sage Durvasa, Indra curtly greeted the Sage without saluting him. Now, In those days, it was customary to salute the wise and learned sages, giving them due respect.
Sage Durvasa however did not get angry at this. He handed over the garland to Indra. ‘Take the garland Indra. It befits you well.’
Indra carelessly took the garland and placed it on Airavatha’s head. The from the garland you could hear the sound of bumble-bees buzzing, along with the aroma from the garland being so strong that Airavatha took the garland from his head and flung it down. Looking at the careless manner in which Indra had treated the garland, Sage Durvasa got very very enraged, ‘Have you forgotten how to greet people and how to behave when you receive a gift. You insolent… (cuts off)’
Indra had the fright of his life, as a result! He suddenly remembered the long list of people whom Sage Durvasa had cursed and reduced them to nothing. He swallowed...Lord of the gods or not, Sage Durvasa was not someone to be taken lightly.
So, he hastily got down from Airavatha and rushed forward fell on the sage’s feet to prevent the sage from saying anything further. But, Before the sage could complete his words, Indra cried, ‘Forgive me Sage. I behaved badly, in treating you thus! I should have respected you and…’
Sage Durvasa if anything got more angry and snorted, ‘Hah!’ He blazed, ‘Now that you know I am going to curse you, you say you are sorry…Am I supposed to believe that you have realized your folly?...'
The sage Durvasa wagged his fingers angrily, with his blood red eyes. His forehead twitched and he raised his hands ominously, 'You have to be taught a lesson. You have grown arrogant and disrespectful. I curse you that you and your Devas will all lose your power and your vigour. You will have no energy and be tired always…’ Indra shook his head, panic stricken and yelled, 'NO!...Please no....Have mercy on me...Please my Lord...Have mercy...' However the sage's word were powerful. Indra could feel his power being drained. He imagined that the other Devas were also facing the same thing.
Indra knew that he had made a huge error and all his friends were paying for his mistake. He had to set things right. Indra still hugged the sage's feet and begged forgiveness from the sage, ‘Please Sage Durvasa. Forgive my mistake. Do not give all of us such a harsh punishment…Please’
But all his pleas fell on deaf ears. Sage Durvasa looked at Indra with blood red eyes, ‘I will not forgive your mistake…’ Sage Durvasa with a stiff upper lip pushed Indra away and walked away, without looking back.
Indra tried talking to the sage again, but he felt his energy ebb away. Try as he might, he could not match the speed of the great Rishi. Though Indra tried following the Sage, he fell unconscious. After some time, Indra woke up to find the sage gone. He was all alone. Indra returned home a dejected puppy.
He called in the council of the other Gods only to find all the other Devas also tired and listless.
Haltingly, Indra explained to the Devas, his encounter with Sage Durvasa. The other Devas were also feeling the effects of the curse. When they came to hear Indra's explanations, the other Devas were panic stricken, wondering what to do. All the gods were sitting in the chamber in a subdued and a defeated manner, when a guard suddenly burst inside the room, ‘Devendra, Devendra… you are needed!’ He ran inside breathless and was surprised to find all the gods sitting listless.
The gods were too tired to ask what was wrong. The guard asked Agni what had happened. Agni explained haltingly about what happened. The guard's eyes looked wildly as he looked panic stricken. 'We are doomed...' He whispered softly.
Indra looked sharply at the guard, 'Explain yourself my man. What happened?'
The Guard still looked terrified when he whispered, 'It is the Asuras, sir... they are attacking us....'
The Guard looked at the floor, wondering whether any one would even survive the attack, forget defending themselves.
Indra and his council of gods looked like they had been petrified. This was bad, very bad. The Devas and the Asuras were forever at war and more often than not, the Devas won because of their superior technology. However now with the Devas feeling so tired, they doubted whether they could even survive the fight let alone win it.
Indra knew it was suicide to even try to defend themselves. However he was left with no choice. In those days, when anyone was challenged to a fight, they had to fight back. It was a matter of honour.
Needless to say, the Devas were routed and most of them fled Devaloka. The Asuras laughed at the Devas calling them cowards and the chief of the Asuras – Bali crowned himself as the King of Devaloka.
The Devas thrown out of their home went to the Creator – Brahma's place – Satyaloka. Tired and unhappy with their defeat at the hands of the Asuras, the Devas were glad to finally reach Brahma's place. They saluted Brahma and told him everything and asked for a way out.
With this, Brahma was flabbergasted. How could Indra behave so arrogantly towards a noble sage? Brahma yelled at Indra, 'How could you, Indra? I had asked you to be patient and wise like a leader. You do not behave like someone you is the King of Devas...' He said his eyes blazing looking at Indra.
Indra was downcast, unhappily, wishing that he had never met Sage Durvasa. He could see now that he had behaved very arrogantly and all the Devas were paying the price for his carelessness.
He fell on the feet of Brahma, 'Father... father, forgive me...I have behaved badly.' He pointed at the other Devas, 'They are also suffering because of my actions. Please father I will do anything to set this right...I will beg Sage Durvasa to take back his curse...' He said a tears coming to his eyes.
Brahma put his hands on Indra's head, realizing that Indra had learnt his lesson. 'Sage Durvasa is not an easy man to talk to. If you attempt to go and talk to him about the curse, he would get angry further...' Indra gulped. He could do without one more curse... Brahma shook his head and sighed, No that would not be the way... there would have to be another way.
Brahma realized that there was no use getting angry at Indra any further and decided to let it go at that. And besides he had other things to worry about.
Brahma was worried about the defeat of the Devas at the hands of the Asuras. The Devas were supposed to look after the natural elements of the world. Who knows what could happen when the Asuras were in charge? He needed to help the Devas and fast, otherwise the future of the entire universe was at stake.
But Brahma was a creator God. He did not know how he could set right his problem. But he knew who could set this right. He looked at the Devas. 'We need to go to Vaikunta, my sons. I am sure Lord Vishnu will solve this problem.' Saying Brahma got ready to leave for Vaikunta – Lord Vishnu's place. At the mention of Vishnu's name, Indra's eyes sparkled. He knew well about the Dark God. He always had a solution to any problem and would help them no matter what.
Much more happier now all the Devas went to Vaikunta and met Vishnu. Now Lord Vishnu saw the tired Gods accompanied by Lord Brahma and narrowed his eyes, 'Well Indra, What have you done now?'
Indra sighed and fell on his knees, 'Lord, stop teasing me. You know everything that happens anywhere...Please do not shame me any more...' He said dejectedly looking downcast. Vishnu turned his eyes on Brahma. 'Well, should I forgive him?' He asked pointing at Indra.
Brahma looked at Indra and nodded his head. 'My Lord I think he has learnt his lesson.'
'Ok' Vishnu said letting out a sigh. He had known the entire episode with Sage Durvasa. Vishnu went to Indra and said with twinkling eyes. 'I cannot help you. Only the Asuras can help you now...'
Indra jerked his head up. The other Gods looked at each other and at Vishnu wondering whether they had heard right. Even Brahma looked a little confused.
'My Lord...' Agni began hesitantly sure that he had heard right. Vishnu smiled his twinkling eyes again, 'Do you know the secrets that are hidden within our great Ocean...'
All the gods shook their heads. In those times there was a single ocean running through the entire world. It was a very deep ocean, which had never been explored. When none of the Gods answered, Vishnu answered the question himself, 'Well a lot of things...' Vishnu smiled blissfully, '...including something to help you...Amrita' Vayu's eyes widened, 'My Lord, did you say Amrita...?' All the Gods exchanged awe-struck glances. Amrita was the ultimate drink. Anyone who drank Amrita would never die, or age and would become extraordinarily powerful...
Agni looked at Varuna, slowly a hope creeping into his tired eyes. However Indra frowned, 'However my Lord, how can we get the Amrita out of the ocean...And my Lord, why do we need the help of the Asuras...? Why....?'
Vishnu held up his hands, Indra was indeed a good leader, who thought through everything...'Patience my good Indra. The Amrita has to be churned out of the ocean. For that you need a churner. Mount Mandara will be your churner.'
Vayu's eyes grew round – Lifting Mount Mandara on the best of days was impossible. Lifting it in their present condition was going to be impossible.
Indra however understood. They needed the help of the Asuras to break the mountain and take it to the Ocean. However he had another question.
'My LORD,' Indra bowed, 'The rope for churning the ocean?' Lord Vishnu smiled, 'Ask Vasuki the snake God to be the rope. Promise his share in the nectar, I think he will agree.'
Indra bowed. There was one question which was burning him. He however had no doubt that the Dark god had thought about it.
Sri Agni however asked the question for him, 'My Lord, if the Asuras help us, we would have to share the nectar with them, how can we stop them? Lord Vishnu smiled and gave a mischievous smile. 'I will take care of that.' The finality with which he said it brooked no further arguments. The Gods had no doubt that Lord Vishnu would give them the Amrita.
Lord Vishnu looked at the tired faces of all the Gods and said, 'Henceforth you will not feel as tired as you are now. Though I cannot turn back the curse of the great sage Durvasa, I can make it go slow. You will lose your energy slowly. Make sure, you finish the job before you lose all your energy.'
The gods bowed their heads and thanked Vishnu, their joy knowing no bounds. Already their visit to Lord Vishnu had revived them. Indra and the other Gods began to feel stronger...
'Take care of the other things.' Vishnu said. As the Gods were about to leave, Vishnu called them, ' Make sure you hold Vasuki's tail and not his head, while churning the ocean.' None of the Gods could make sense of the cryptic comment, but they knew that they had been dismissed. They left Vaikunta happier, knowing what had to be done..
Indra with Vayu and Agni first went to see the Asura King Bali. On seeing Indra unarmed, the Asura king's ministers wanted to kill Indra. However Bali decided too hear them out. Indra laid out the entire plans. 'We want to get the Amrita out of the ocean.' He began without any preamble. Indra watched Bali's eyes grow round. His minster blankly stared at Indra, as if he had gone mad. 'Amrita, you mean the Amrita. The one that...'
Bali looked at Indra and realized that he was speaking the truth. He silenced his minsters. 'How do you propose to do that?' He asked softly, wondering whether the Devas were trustworthy.
Indra told him about about Mount Mandara and Vasuki. 'This cannot be done by you or by us alone...'
One of Bali's minster interrupted harshly, 'We do not need your help, you coward...we can do this...'
'SILENCE!' Bali roared and the minster abruptly stopped talking. Bali angrily eyed the minister and then turned to Indra, 'We need each other. We do this together.' He nodded his head curtly and dismissed Indra. Indra left with Vayu and Agni happy that the first part of the plan went well.
Indra then alone went to the Vasuki – the king of snakes. Indra saluted Vasuki and told him about the Devas and the Asuras planned to churn the ocean and that they needed a rope. Vasuki realized immediately his role and said hissing, 'Well it is a tough job, but I agree. I assume, I will get part of the nectar when the churning is done?'
Indra nodded his head. Vasuki nodded his head satisfied. Being the king of snakes and a god, he could get away from all the stretching and pulling without getting hurt too much.
Soon the big day arrived, the Devas and the Asuras went to the Mount Mandara. They prayed to Mount Mandara and set about breaking the mountain, to carry it to the ocean. Mount Mandara was a heavy mountain and with every single Deva and Asura breaking the mountain, it was still a tough job. Finally, the mountain was free, the Devas and the Asuras all of them together lifted the mountain. They carried the mountain for a few feet, when the Devas and the Asuras staggered. Mount Mandara was beyond even their combined capabilities. The mountain fell down and crushed many Devas and Asuras carrying the mountain.
Indra tired from his exertion and the death of so many of the other Gods, sat under a tree, cursing himself for the fate of the other Gods. Oh Lord, what are we to do now. We cannot even get the mountain to the ocean let alone churn it...Please help us...He thought drying his eyes That was when he suddenly smelled a whiff of fresh air, so powerful and strong, Indra felt so strong that he could lift Mount Mandara all by himself. He had had this feeling once before. He turned and saw Lord Vishnu near him. Lord Vishnu smiled and pointed Indra to look at Mount Mandara once more.
Indra got up to his feet forgetting all his tiredness and saw Lord Vishnu single handed lift the mountain and place it on Garuda – Vishnu's vehicle. Garuda, the king of the birds, lifted the mountain as if it was no weight at all. Vishnu spelled out a mantra and sprinkled some water on the Devas and the Asuras lying under Mounta Mandara. The Devas and the Asuras woke up, as they had been asleep.
Indra overjoyed threw himself at his friend's arms, seeing them alive. 'Vayu!' he cried, almost sobbing, 'you are alive!'
Vayu looked strangely at Indra, 'What happened? I remember lifting Mount Mandara, and then nothing...' Bali was meanwhile looking after his colleagues and making sure they were ok. He looked at Vishnu and thanked Lord Vishnu.
Indra explained to Vayu and the other Gods about how they were crushed under the Mountain. All the Devas and the Asuras fell at Lord Vishnu's feet and thanked him. Vishnu smiled and he carried Mount Mandara on Garuda's back and placed it near the ocean and turned to Garuda, 'Friend, it is best you do not come to this place again. Vasuki the king of serpents would never come as long as you are here.' Garuda nodded. Birds and snakes were natural enemies... Garuda flew off. Lord Vishnu also vanished.
Both the Devas and the Asuras feeling happy now, went near the ocean to place Mount Mandara inside the ocean. That was when they had another problem.
When the Devas and the Asuras placed the mountain inside the ocean, there was nothing to hold up the mountain, and it kept slipping down, inside the huge ocean. The Devas and the Asuras were dejected once again. They could not find anything huge enough to give support to the mountain inside the ocean to prevent it from slipping deep inside. Indra bitterly complained to Agni, 'How can we churn the ocean, Agni. The mountain keeps sinking inside the ocean. I do not think we can find anything big enough to support Mount Mandara...To come so close and no be able to to anything...' Indra said frustrated.
Agni gently touched Indra's shoulder. 'Lord Vishnu will help us,' he said. Indra nodded and prayed to the Lord once more. Oh Lord please help us. This can be solved only by you...
Lord Vishnu came in the form a giant tortoise [his second avatar – Kurma Avatar] and plunged into the ocean. He went under the ocean and picked the submerged Mount Mandara and put it on his back. The Mountain now stood firmly on the tortoise's back, inside the ocean. Now the Devas and the Asuras dropped medicinal herbs into the ocean, so that their churning would lead to good results.
The Devas asked Vasuki to come and coil himself around the mountain and started the actual churning. After Vasuki coiled himself, Lord Vishnu's warning flashed through Indra's head Make sure you hold Vasuki's tail and not his head. Indra now knew what he had to do.
He rushed forward and grabbed Vasuki's head, almost strangling Vasuki in the process. 'We are going to hold on the head, you can hold on to the other side.' He said to the Asura King contemptuously. Bali wondered what could have prompted Indra to act such, when his minster rushed forward. 'You weakling! You dare make such demands! Who are you to say anything? Don't forget you are weak and you are outnumbered. We...'
Bali tried to think wondering whether this was a trap, however his minister has grabbed Vasuki's head and pushed Indra back. Indra fell back and pretended to be dejected as he went over to the over side.
The other Gods winked at Indra knowing that his plan had worked well. The Asuras were feeling very happy that Indra had not got the upper hand. They laughed at Indra for being such a coward for not fighting...
However their happiness was short lived. After the churning started the Devas realized why Lord Vishnu had insisted on the Devas holding the tail. Vasuki was the King of snakes and when he was pulled, he involuntarily spat out the venom in his mouth. The Asuras being near the mouth were badly burnt by the poison.
Bali seethed seeing the blisters and marks on the Asuras hands. But there was nothing he could do. They had accepted to take the mouth and they were stuck with the choice.
After hours of churning, the first thing to emerge from the ocean was the poison Halahal. The Devas and the Asuras alike were stung by the poison. The Halahal mushroomed into a huge cloud threatening to engulf the whole world. If the poison was not removed, the whole world would be suffocated.
Lord Indra fell on his knees followed by the other Devas, 'Oh Shiva, please save us from this destruction. You are the only one who can save us.' Indra muttered a small prayer, his eyes and throat stinging.
Sri Shiva heard the prayers and came to their rescue immediately. He realized that if something was not done the Halahal would destroy the entire universe. He grabbed the entire poison in his palm and swallowed it in a gulp. He realized that he had put himself in danger, but that was the only way to save the universe.
Parvati who was beside Shiva stared horror struck at what Shiva had done. 'NO! What have you...?'
Realizing that she had only a few minutes to act, she immediately grasped Shiva's throat and arrested the poison in his throat, so that the poison would neither come out nor affect Shiva in any way.
She breathed deeply, when she realized that Shiva was alright. However the poison's effect was so bad that Shiva's throat where the poison was stored, turned blue. Since that day, Shiva has been called as 'Nilkanta' which meant 'blue throat'.
The Devas and the Asuras thanked Lord Shiva and Goddess Parvati and with their blessings resumed the churning. Subsequently the Kamadhenu cow, Ucchashravas horse, Kalpavriksha tree etc. also came out of the ocean. These were shared by the Devas and the Asuras.
The next to come was the beautiful Goddess Lakshmi. She looked so beautiful that the Devas and the Asuras stopped churning and simply gazed at her.
Eager to get her attention, the Devas scrambled to get a chair for her to sit. The apsaras [dancing maidens] danced for the Goddess and in the end handed her a garland.
In those days, it was customary for a woman of marriageable age to choose her own husband. This was called as 'swayamwara'.
All the Devas, Asuras and Gods [Even Lord Vishnu had come in his human form] were waiting for the goddess to choose. Every God wondered who would be the lucky one.
Goddess Lakshmi saw all the assembled Devas, Asuras and gods. She studied dark God Vishnu with his beautiful twinkling eyes and mischievous smile. She smiled once and garlanded Lord Vishnu, choosing him above all the others.
The gods cheered when they saw Goddess Lakshmi was to marry Lord Vishnu. She was the Goddess of Wealth and Prosperity and he was the Preserving god. They all sensed that she was the Goddess Supreme, who had manifested herself as Lakshmi to become Lord Vishnu's wife – his power and his strength. Thus with great pomp and show, Goddess Lakshmi married Lord Vishnu during the churning of the ocean.
Subsequently the ocean also yielded the amrita and how Lord Vishnu gave the Amrita only to the Devas without giving any to the Asuras is another story, for another time!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-PNun-Pfb4 {https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-PNun-Pfb4}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nL0wGDRYXw {https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nL0wGDRYXw}
F i n
The interpretation you have is a private interpretation by the Pope and his guys. Our interpretation is one by our guys. This is how religins keep people subdues---just believe tham and all will turn out OK. That's nonsense. The mess on the planet is created by athorities in religions, governments, insudtry and the finacial floks. You religion has no solution to theproblems it helped create. It no positive guidance to recrete the world into a peasceful place other then follow them to nowhere. You'renot foloowing Christ--you're following your religion leaders. What you exhibit here is the very reason Atheism exists. Those you follow have no answer to the messs they participated in to make happen. Do you think JC would create such a mess. Your're technically asking JC to straight out a mess he did not create by the very ones that say they represent him. Now, do you see the hypocacy here. What does your clergyman tell you about how to help- the world become a peacful place---- Follow christ-right. Over 2000 yeras that idea hasn'tchanged a thing and is exactly what has been going on all this time. Now=eXplain how this idea of following christ changes you, anyone else, or the situation on planet earth. Foryour info--your religion very likel;y has a profitable state in this mess and to straighten it out you religion would have to do away with itself. If removing the problem would straighten things out, then you religion would have to go also in order for that to happen.
What we see very plainly is --the follow christ thing isn't working nor can it. Your clergyman has nothing to go on with "follow Christ". Follow is one thing, changing and becomeing as he is a different thing. One has to become as he--and then follow. But he told you, no one has to follow him, but if you want to be at peace on this planet you have to follow his precepts. Following him won't do anyone any good. You have to follow what he represents,and I'll bet you don't know what that is either--and neither does the Pope or any other clergyman. What are you following??? I'll bet you don't know and the clergy can't tell you becasue they don't know him from Adam. The only following you can do is---follow the ones that decide what you believe. You don'tbelieve in JC--you believe in the world as is. This isn't his world (idea) going on here it's a cocoction of nonsense perpetrated by the ones who run it and benefit most by it. Your religion is involved with this fools parade and liar'spardise the very same as the polititicans are. Sorry, no offense intended. Your floks have no solution to the problem, we Old Seers do. You have to change your mindset--as JC thinks differently then the world. Now you have to figure out what the difference is. It's definatley not Nimrod's ideas.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
can we please not start with the matryoshka posts? if you're quoting in the reply, there's no need to quote the whole discussion. just pare down to the part you're actually responding to.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
so again, do you not believe the God of creation Is God enough to solidify His Word?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
What you are doing, old seer, is playing the my book is better than yours game, when that is not the case. God's Word is not for personal interpretation, and is eternal. It does not matter whether you read the KJV, Hebrew Bible, NIV, or any other translation.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
What you are doing, old seer, is playing the my book is better than yours game, when that is not the case. God's Word is not for personal interpretation, and is eternal. It does not matter whether you read the KJV, Hebrew Bible, NIV, or any other translation.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
SERIOUSLY, IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO QUOTE THE ENTIRE DISCUSSION!!! IT EATS UP A LOT OF MEMORY AND SLOWS DOWN BROWSERS!!!
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
You tell 'em!
If it's causing you significant problems I'll trim the quoting some when I get the time.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
know what that means. I don't believe such a thing as God as you say it is even exists. Nature can be expressed in masculine and feminine terms.such as "Eve" meaning "Earth or Soul. So how is God "He". The term God really has no meaning to us Old Seers. The best we can do with it is---it means force or a situation that someone is ignorant of,and is use to express the "I don't know syndrome. The term God replaces nature by ancient who didn't understand the the universal forces of the naturral. We don't see any He or intelligent being as a creator of the material universe. The biblical creator is (to us) is the natural forces that create a person --through evolution, and over time the brain forms the person, or the person forms in the brain by the processesof the brain. We don't see any "person" deliberatly forms a person. The term "God" is used to takethe placeof nameing something unknow, and denotes ignorance of something. In the writtings before the hebrew tribes formed their was no such term used as "God" Because they weren't ignorant of the social forces they were under. It is after the fall that the ter"God" comes into play becasue the fall causes them to forget the original social forces of Adam.
The book states-- The fall cased the lossm of theknowledge of "God", which means they lost the precepts of Adam Adamites. This sums it up. In the beginning (of enlightenment) was the word (creation) and the word was with man (God),and the word(Creation) was Adam (God). The same was in the beginning (Creation=a spirtual awakening). Now notice what the Apostle points to---Light (not sunlight)(but Knowledge) was in the beginning, and, this light(enlightenment) is creaton itself. The only intelligent being in this passage is------the adamites. There is no super human anything going on in creation. The Adam ites were simple humble, humane flokand have nothing to dowith anything/one super. In biblical terms (according to our interpretation and understanding, you God does not exist, and cannot be found in the book.
Adam is the very same as what becomes known as Christanity--as in via an apostle--JC is Adam the 2nd--meaning JC and Adam are not only genetically kin, but also spirtually. They are of the same mental state. Note-the the term "super" has no place in this concept nor any meaning between the two personalities, they are the same.
All JC is saying is--Floks, be like my ancestor Adam and the social problems you are under noi loner apply. Don'tmake the change and you've got what you'got and will get worse as your leaders try in vain to fix their nonsense--which is an impossibility under the state of mind your world is. The invisible god idea isn't going to fix anything, we all have to do it and it's upto the people to do it--governments and religions can't, becasue they are the ones that created the mess making them "the problem", and you can't fix a problem with what causes it. Blah blah and etc and etc. Enough for now. I have to emply my super intellectual properties to fix supper.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
I didn't understand what you meant. Did dunit
I'll have to learn to use the quote function. I seen it around somewhere.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Apparently the college education that he likes to brag about didn't prepare him for the notoriously complicated quote function.
Re :: Why do I get the feeling you don't want to speak (P-Y-T), Off-site Folk, gal ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmyfYzU5Ohw {https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmyfYzU5Ohw}
p.p.s. -- Defy you to tell me other, in the end, isn't the price we pay .. all worth it (hehe)!!
if this is directedto me but.
[yes the price is going to be worth it]. How so ?
Technically, no one today is at fault for what we inherited from the previous generations. IEn (input from another Smurf some years back) We don't need to appreciate war, but should we. With out it I would never have been born (and neither would have he) All that has happened over the centuries brings about the circumstances that today we all have lived. This is the "good and evil' factor. Had it not been for historical events that have taken place we would not be here, someone else would. My great great grand parents X10 would never have met, which means my father and mother wouldn'y have met, which equals---no me.
My parents come out of WW1 and without it they would have never met. As a fact--they were married in the chapel at Fort Snelling near Mpls MN. My birth Mom is a Rosie the riviter. Should I be happy WW1 came about and thank the kaiser. Yes and no. I can be happy I'm a result of it, but I don't need to be happy that the war happened. We're all in the same boat here. The universe presents us whether we want it or not, the goods and evils of itself. From evils can come goods, and from goods there can come evils. So, who's to blame. No one. It's a must that all understand so these things can be avoided, and when it comes about that all understand and there will be those who wish to proceed with this worlds idea of things---then they will be to blame.
So,was it all worth it, definetly. Ever since we evolved with a brain that couldreason we've been useing it to get the best of one another. But no one knew anything else except the Adamites. But you can't count them because they didn't tell the world but passed it down to a few to preserve for the future. Every time they spoke up they were attacked and killed. A generation needs to come about that understands and demands the right to be what nature made, and not made by people who want to excersie they're superiority complexes on others. One of those was Nimrod, a liar and deciever togather peopleto his cause, doing hard work while the lazy bastid sat in the shade and felt glorified in his deceptions. Today we still have plenty of Nimrods around doing the same.
What we went through is a 10,000 year learning experience that's come hi time that we learn from the experience. If we learn from the experience it was worth it. If we don't learn then it wasn't worth iy. And it won't be worth it until we leran. It's the masses thet have to learn and take up the task of change from a few overthe many and each to their own land and house and live among true friends rather then deceivingl predators after the likes of Nimrod.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Hence, old seer why there is only 30 of you.
You quote, but only select verses John 1: In the beginning was the Word , the Word was with God, and the Word was God. This seems to be where you stop.
let's continue: HE existed in the beginning with God.God CREATED everything through Him, and NOTHING was created except through Him. (There is that word created, which is something God DID through Christ). That created is the Greek word ginomai, which means to become, to arise, to be made.
now the next verses, 6-8 speak of John the Baptist who was SENT by God.
now let's go further to verse 10: HE was in the world, and the world was made through Him, yet the world did not know Him.
verse 14: and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
Let's look at some other verses:
Collosians 1:15 For He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For BY HIM all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities. All things wereally created through Him and for Him.
there are more verses to Christ creating the world.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
There are 30 of us because that's all we're allowing. These are all clients of the one that put us all together on this thing. If you go to the website below my posts you'll find what we present. There's more but we are sacttered far and wide and don't take the time much anymoreto add to it. We're not looking for new members, and not trying to create a following. We're relying on people to think for themselves and not depend on us to do all the thinking. We're not even sure True Christianity is a religion. Awl be bawk<-----Schwarzenegger
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
*chomping popcorn*
I love watching the crazies fight each other.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
first, you didn't address my post. Second, you are correct that true Christianity is not a religion. It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
which is a religion by most commonly accepted definitions, because it's an interaction between humans and the supernatural (the usual anthropological definition) and it's a therapeutic solution to a universal existential problem (the philosophical defintion). "religion" does not mean ritual. "ritual" means ritual. religions may or may not have ritual elements.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
But atheism is a religion. Got it. ( I wish I had your college education 'cause gosh you're smart. )
Grand kids showed up and took'em WallyMart to help them spend some of my money.
Understand this now--we don't interpret the book as you so you "will" have a problem understanding. It will take time. If you went to the website you may have read the page of our interpretaion of creation. We don't interperpret "god"as you do.
Let's have a look at this word thing. This is going to take awhile so bear up under it- I may have to leave for a bit but will continue later.
In the beginning was the Word , the Word was with God, and the Word was God. HE existed in the beginning with God. God CREATED everything through Him, and NOTHING was created except through Him. (There is that word created, which is something God DID through Christ). That created is the Greek word ginomai, which means to become, to arise, to be made.
1- in the beginning: Of what--the creation of man, isn't that what this passage is dealing with. (He=Adam) If so, the Biblical creartion is not the creation of the material. If JC is the word then word in this case referes to "person" not the material universe. The seven days of creation are "the Word" when God 'said" What did it say -let their be light. What about that light which was "in the beginning". How about enlightenment. Let's bring Johnny into this. What would John the Baptist have to do with the mateiral creation of the universe, zero. The light is word, right. So biblicaly creation is a matter of someone being enlightened/informed. Would Johnny be forwarding knowledge of the sun--what does the sun have to do with JC, zero. JC and JTB aren't about sunlight, they're about enlightenment, the aquisition of the knowlege of something/one.
2-what is being created: An apostle says, first there was the physical and then the spiritual. So if the physical already existed before the light/enlightenment then there had to be a person that was being enlightened. Who's he/they--Adam. If JC is the likeness of Adam, and Adam was in the beginning. All things were created by him is not the material universe. The apostles deal with the spiritual, so all things spiritual is being handled in this case. They had no knowledge of the material universe and weren't very high up the ladder in phyzix, so, it's the spiritual that is of their concern. What was done through Christ/Adam, a particular personage was formed to be unlike/different then others in the world. This is the beginning of what later becomes known as Christianity. If JC is Christianity, than Adam aslo was Christianity. If the word was God in the beginning then Adam is termesd as God. This is not the god of what religions believe, it a matter that the precepts of Adam were the rule. God is that wich governs, and then god is force and force rules. Adam comes under the forces that he is ruled by and that's a mental state, The same as JC. Force is government,that then is the precepts which rules Adam. so, Adam himself becomes the precept, (one is what one thinks) and is the precepts are forec od a particular mentality, then Adam is God. Not a ruler of the universe but a ruler of the self via the understandings of what the self is. The beginning is what later becomes Christianty. Christanity then is Messiaonic intent that once fallen away from Being Adam a messiah is need to point a way back to the precepts of Adam. Christianity is a re-creation of Adam. That's what I pointed out in a previous post. Religions purporting to be Christian don't know JC from Adam, and if they don't they can't possibly be Christian. What the natural force of Adam/Christ did was create an enlightened and peaceful being. Through Christ is the same as through Adam--in the beginning.
Invisible: The invisible things of creation that can be clearly seen etc. . In your interpretaion what in creation is invisible if it's a material happening. OK. The only thing biblical that invisible is----Spiritual things, and what is that? In biblical form the person is invisible and non-material. We Smurfs don't agree necessarily but that's bibilcal. form. The Smurfs are looking at 2 possiblities. Creation is a natural happening creating the person/mind,or, Aparticualr peopleis deciding their mental makeupby understanding the makeup of the mind/person. If there are invisible things in creation as said by an apostle, then the only thing invisible in biblical terms is one's own spirit. There-fore then, Biblical creation cannot possibly be the construction of a material universe. The Creationists loose on this one. Atheists 1, Creationist 0. Go to your Greek wording, which one(s) best apply our interpretation.
The adamites were not the first people on the planet. They were the first formed in proper humanties.The decendents of Adam are the Middle Eatern peoples, Europeans and Asians are not genetically linked to Adam. In Christianity genetic are of no count, it's the personality type that counts. All peoples on the planet are decendents of an African bush tribe that migrated throughout the planet. The ones that settled near and between the Tigress and Euphates rivers became enlightened/Adam. Creation is a mental/psychological happening. The god/way/forces (in terms used) of Adam is the one side of one's person that is human. There's olny one other side possible---what would that be?
There's been millions of floks baptized and we don't see anyone acting out of Holy Spirit. (Holy= a thing or person held high regard. Spirt= person, in turn =person of high regard.) We're still trying to figure out what that even means. I sure don't know what it means. Whatever it means it didn't work. Pouring water on someone's head or dunking them in a river don't change their personality and doesn't cause a mental change. However, this is JB-- I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Water is out, fire is in. Here we have this holy spirit again.It probably means proper spirit. What's this fire idea. It means you have to destroy yourself. Nope- nope- don't go shooting yourself. Fire in old Hebrewis a term applied to mean destruction. Fire destroys. So you must be destroyed in order to become a Christian. Put the gun away, I'll esplain. Chrisitanity is a change from the person one is to another personality, that is, one changes from being made by the worlds idiots into a person that is enlightened about those idiots.With the enlightenment of one's self one also automatically sees the idiocy that the wortld runs on. This change of person overrides the person the world made one into and one then becomes a new person and the old person dies. The old you is destroyed, as in, a new heavens and a new earth in Rev. Thats'a new earth (=soul) and new heavens (=mind) equals new person. Of course now, it's strictly voluntary. If one hasn't made the change then one isn't properly Christian/human. Be aware that true Christianity has different understanding of what human is, not the worlds idea. Human is still in the world (can'tget rid of it) but it doesn'tget top billing, the other does, (can't get rid of it either) and is easy to see.
On a trip to the San Gabriel Mountains North of los Angeles a while back I was at a spot on the river where the local churchs hold baptizmal dunkings. I was sitting with a few prospectors above the river and watching . (I got pictures) One of observing miners said--crrraazzzy man. It was spring and the mountain water was near ice cold. Tjhey even had a warming tent to keep the dunked form expiring from some kind of thermia. So, were the people changed by this. Nada. They went back down the hill eggzackly as they were when they came up, except going down they were quite a bit cooler. Baptisim by water is merely symbolic of washing the mind clean of the world, but does it work, nope. Ya have to do the JC one. Did I laughat the people, nope. I understand. As suspected they were very kindly a humanlike floks.
OK, nuff for now.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth