Atheist vs. Theist

Where is the evidence against God? Do you have it?

I am a person who believes in God.  I believe that God created the universe/world/etc.  Regardless of the religious belief that I believe in, my question is can you prove that God does not exist?  I mean, no matter what I say as to the evidence of the existence of God it really boils down to faith on both sides of the issue.  However, on the other hand, can you prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that God doesn't exist?  Forget religious intolerance/human issues/or whatever - (during the course of the earth's history), prove to me that there is no God and I'll convert.

Outside of Biblical Context

So, first off I will state was is about to become obvious. I am a Christian. To all atheists who are willing to read this, I will submit to you proof that Jesus lived, died, and was resurrected. Now, you are entitled to ask questions, argue, or whatever. Do not think that I am some one who is closed to what you have to say. So, here it is:

The Scholarly Proof
Many atheists reject writing of apologists and say that Jesus never lived because of lack of records that he did. Flavius Josephus published a history of the Jews in twenty books around 93 A.D. Josephus was not Christian, and he did not even refers to Jesus miracles as miracles, but rather "astonishing works". Also, Josephus did not refer to Jesus as the son of God as Christians do/did, rather he called Jesus "a wise man."

Atheism

Atheists are people who assert that there is no God. They may say that atoms or their component parts in space makeup the sum total of all reality. Whatever the analysis, these people assert that finite physical reality is all there is-that there is nothing else. There are several divisions in this group. One historically prominent group is the Logical Positivists. By an analysis of language, they conclude that theology is not so much false as it is plain nonsense. To them, speaking of God is like saying that the typewriter is the bluish-green sound of the square root of minus one. Theology is not good enough even to be false; it is simple nonsense. Other devotees of scientism are not Logical Positivists. Their theories are called naturalism or humanism, and they would call theology bigoted falsehood. Various political liberals are atheists, and often their socialistic creed attacks theology as a reactionary hindrance to social advancement.

wavefreak's picture

It is and it isn't

Can something exists and not exist? Of course not you say. But think about it as possible for a minute. Can you FEEL the cognitive dissonance? Now continue to contemplate the possibility until you discover how to make the dissonance go way WITHOUT compartmentalizing. This is the essence of "mystical" experience. To accomplish it you need to essentially learn to "silence" your mind . Which brings me to my point.  "Silence your mind" is not accurate. In fact, there is NO language based description for such a state of mind for when it is acheived, language is absent. I think this is a huge problem when supplying evidence regarding god. Such a state of mind CANNOT be described empirically or logically because those are both language based. And yet such an altered state of conciousness can be acheived and even measured. The crux of the matter is the interpretation of the state of conciousness. If I devise an experiment that through electrical stimulation induces the same brain wave patterns as somebody in a deep meditative state have I duplicated the experience or just the neurological presentation of a mind state? Is it really the same or is it like vanilla from a bean v.s. artificial flavoring? An undiscerning palate may not be able to tell the difference between natural and artificial vanilla, but a good chef can. And so where does the experimentalist justify the conclusion "I have duplicated mysticism" when all they have duplicated is a similar pattern of neurological activity?

I think I found a way for the infinite consciousness to be falsafiable

The Black Hole information paradox.

 Basically, Hawking radiation emitted by a Black Hole is independent of the hole itself and hence cannot provide information of what fell into the hole. 

Now, if data/information can be destroyed, then the infinite conscioussness is in a rut.

However, it it could be resolved by transfering the information to other universes (Einstien-Rosen bridges), if that is the case, then I'm still good to go. Once the LHC is turned on, we may get better insight into the nature of black holes (Since it may produce minature ones).

 

Apotheon's picture

Simple Question For Non-Believers

 The icon is of my patron, Saint Evthymios the Great of 6th century Palestine.

Before I get to my main question, I am curious why atheists are so bent on disproving God if He in fact does not exist? If He does not exist, it should be rather easy to prove. Bust since websites such as this still exist, is indicative of the fact that atheism has failed in its mission to disprove His existance. The majority of mankind: past, present and future, have been theists for a reason.

My main question:

Ever notice when your walking down the street how you will suddenly get an urge to turn your head and when you turn your head, you find yourself in eye contact with another person? This happens to me all the time. I think it is evidence of precognition and ESP. If man is nothing but matter, how can he know someone is looking at him when he himself is not looking at that person?  You might say its a coincidence. But it isn't. Next time it happens to you, pay close attention to it. You'll be walking down the street or something, turn your head for no apparent reason, and find that someone is looking at you. It's as if the soul or higher consciousness knows you are being watched.

What grounds is Dawkins basing this on?

The universe we observe has precisely the properties we would expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing by blind pitiless indifference~ Richard Dawkins

 

I have no idea where he's getting this.

how do ex-theists cope with death, killing, and the evil in this world?

im not sure how to explain this more, but i was talking to my friend and he says that so long as there are things out of peoples control and understanding they emotionally would need a god to provide comfort and hope to help them get through it. can someone elaborate more on that point of view and explain how newly ex-christians can feel satisfied in their thinking and emotionally when those kindof things happen....

Rev_Devilin's picture

Faith in logic ?

Smiling

One cannot help, noticing the astonishing faith some people have in logic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godel's_incompleteness_theorem

? one must ask why

Pascal's Wager and Belief

Hey everyone. This is my first post here, but I've been roaming the forums and watching some of the shows for about a month and a half. I am, by the way, and Athiest. In that time here, and even time long outside of here on Youtube and such, a very common argument/point from Theists is Pascal's Wager. In al lmy viewings and readings I haven't seen the point that first comes to my mind made much, if ever, so hopefully this is "new"!

A quick google search gives me the following wording for the Wager: "If you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing -- but if you don't believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you will go to hell. Therefore it is foolish to be an atheist."

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