Atheist vs. Theist
Omniscience
Submitted by wavefreak on June 13, 2007 - 10:02am.I'm offering up my own personal definition of omnicience for debate.
Omniscience: Knowing all that is knowable.
Knowing "everything" is well understood as problematic. A concrete example is the Uncertainty Principle. There is something fundamentally unknowable about an elementary particle. We cannot simultaneously know both its position and momentum to an arbitrary level of precision. So an omnicient god must be either bound to reality (the Uncertainty Principle is valid) or must have a language more suitable than mathematics for describing elementary particles.
How would you define Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence?
Submitted by simple theist on June 13, 2007 - 4:17am.How would you define Omnipresence, Omniscience, & Omnipotence? If you don't mind, please also post your religious beliefs as well. (This is only so I can determine if there is a patern in how you define the terms.) Also, I would ask that you don't use a dictionary. Define the terms yourself, as you would define them. I'm attempting to gather this information for a future post.
Is This Right?
Submitted by WASannannienann on June 12, 2007 - 6:48pm.If we take The Bible to be true, all non-believers will go to hell.
I cannot believe in God, ghosts, paranormal, ect. My mind simply will not let me no matter how hard I try and I have tried. So God gave me a mind that does not have the capacity to believe in him and because I cannot believe in him I will go to hell. So I wil go to hell becuase of a choice God made.
Is this right and where is the free will in that?
Case for God's existence- the Matter argument
Submitted by mmonte4 on June 12, 2007 - 12:49pm.Is there tangible, compelling evidence for God/god/gods/spirit?Ill take to matter arguement, because I don't think you gave this one enough thought. we've dated the universe- 14.5 billion years old, give or take. The basic law of physics, that is a governing law of all physical processes, is that energy is niether created nor destroyed- its conserved. Is it truly illogical to say that matter had to have been created? and before you think its ok to not know "yet", remember, we DO know the laws governing this process... matter does not spontaniously form. really think about how miniscule we are talking here...
Prove Theists Really Exist (Response to 'Prove An Atheist Really Exists').
Submitted by BGH on June 12, 2007 - 11:10am.Every theist I have ever met has their own conceptualized version of god.
There is not one theist (mostly christians) who has ever given me the exact same definition of god, christians are always saying "well, he wasn't a TRUE christian".
Well, this is a challenge (mainly to christians), prove how you are a TRUE believer as opposed to all the other believers.
[Edit - added link]
P.S. This post is in reponse to this thread.
[Edit - Changed title a bit]
Agnostic or Atheism?: I disagree with RRS on definitions.
Submitted by Lance on June 12, 2007 - 10:27am.In what follows, I propose to present a clear refutation of the claims made by many with the RRS that a conflation of the terms 'atheism' and 'agnosticism' is acceptable and that they mean the same thing. Or to put it differently, the claim that the terms 'atheist' and 'agnostic' can be conflated and are synonymous. To accomplish, this I'll briefly survey the nature of propositional attitudes; make mention of the some problems and absurd corollaries which follow from this conflation. Below, in small italic print, is the post by Todangst. One need not read this in order to analyze my critique. But it's helpful for two reasons: quick reference for me and for anyone reading to see if I'm accurately interpreting and representing the views expressed there. With that said, I have one final note before proceeding. I have not viewed the video which is available here, so I won't group the promoter of that video with Todangst's position until I do.
Christians, Please Read Here Before Posting...
Submitted by sapphen on June 12, 2007 - 9:32am.this may be a work in progress, please feel free to add to it.
there are a lot of misconceptions about atheist. a lot of intelligent theist have already stated ideas that they have heard before. if you do bring an idea here keep in mind the following;
1. white space is important
2. simplify without compromising your thoughts
3. don't get angry
4. faith requires the lack of proof
5. personal proof is not going to convince anyone, but it welcomed to be shared.
6. don't underestimate your opposition and don't over estimate yourself. if you are unsure, ask questions.
The Wonder of God’s Creation?
Submitted by IzzyPop on June 12, 2007 - 2:44am. I had a religious discussion with a theistic co-worker the other day and they brought out the argument from beauty. On other words, how can one look at all the beauty and majesty of the world and not see the hand of God? I didn’t have a specific response at the time, but I have considered it for the past few days and I find it actually insulting. There seems to be an implication that because I approach the world rationally, because I want to understand the how and the why behind things, I lose the mystery and wonder of the world around me. I call shenanigans. My life without God is full of more wonder and awe over the universe than it was with God.
The God of Abraham is an infinite being. It doesn’t take much for an infinite being to create a finite universe…probably not much to make an infinite universe as well, but I’d have to ponder a bit more on that. So if he did create the universe, then kudos to him, he had a plan and implemented it. But if God doesn’t exist, if he didn’t create the universe, then I do not have the words to fully capture the sense of awe and wonder that I have when I look at something as simple as the flowers growing in my garden.
The knowledge of how chlorophyll works, how the plant reproduces with the help of wind, birds, or insects, and why it is brightly colored or produces edible fruit, filtered through my understanding of genetics and evolution, makes even the weeds I have to pull nothing less then a miracle in my eyes. To be told that something thought of this and made it so in the blink of an eye cheapens it, turns it from a survivor in the struggle for life into an idle curiosity made by some unfathomable being for some unfathomable reason. And the more complex the organism, the more my sense of wonder grows.
Creationists and fundies are a bigger insult to God than any atheist will ever be.
Submitted by Cpt_pineapple on June 12, 2007 - 1:50am.I'm talking Young Earth bible literalists, rejection of evolution etc...
First to say the Earth is 6,000 years old, global flood etc... is just dishonest and wrong. They claim we should listen to God's word, but I say they are the ones that are ignoring God. Why do you think we have quarks, evolution etc?... So we can experience them. So we can further our knowledge and finally understand our universe. That all the possible outcomes of evolution are merely different experiences. Every different sub-atomic particle, every photon of energy serves it's purpose to construct and maintain our universe. We will not go to hell unless we reject evolution big bang etc. To reject science is to create our own personal hell but not experiencing the universe to it's full potiental.
Question for Christian moderates
Submitted by inspectormustard on June 12, 2007 - 12:08am.I have just one quick question for all the christian moderates out there:
Which passage of the bible nullifies most or all of the rules handed down in the old testament?