Secularists (particularly the arguments of the so-called "new atheists&quot argue to try to diminish, if not, eradicate religion. Yet even assuming that the almost 7 billion+ people on this planet had access to a secular education, decent living standards, and life prospects how could this even be possible? And how are we defining religion here? I have yet to hear the new atheists, or anyone for that matter, overturn this argument in a convincing way.

Also, since religious communities have been pushed into modernity (especially in the Islamic world) largely through military ventures and the imposition of free markets, the additional demand of secularization on a Western model has been quite overbearing, especially if we're to agree that capitalist globalization diminishes traditional values and the sense of what is sacred between people and their community. Doesn't it seem that the attacks of 9/11 and the resurgence of religion (especially of the extreme kind) after the fall of the Soviet Union is largely the result of the secular project of modernization (especially in places like Eastern Europe, the Balkans, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.) which has been experienced as a trauma, with an absence of any sort of credible moral virtue to lend legitimacy to a de-secularized political re-orientation? I think this process of secularization has been received as a violent and poor alternative to traditional worldviews that still hold communities together, however well or poorly they may achieve this goal.

As I stated in the other thread, I do not, and hope that you dont either, take this brawl personally, if you chose to partisipate. It is not aimed at you the person, but merely the claims you put forth.

So, if you would start off by giving me a discription of what your position is, we can start from there.

Keep in mind it will get bloody(metephorically speeking). But please understand that after the match is over, we can still have a beer together(meaning we can agree on other issues and be friends outside this dissagreement).

IN THIS CORNER, IT'S THE SULTAIN OF SILLYNISS, THE EINSTIEN OF IDOCY, THE MASTER OF MORONICNESS.......BRIAN37!

IN THE OTHER CORNER, ITS THE DEFENDER OF DEITIES, THE CYBORG OF THEISM ........."CIARIN"

LETS GET READY TO MUMBLE!

1. John 3:4 defines "sin" as a transgression against the law of God. Is this an accurate definition? If so, then what about people who have never been made aware of the law of God. Is it possible for a person to willfully break or disobey a law they are ignorant of?

2. The Bible seems to imply in many verses that unbelief in God is a sin in itself. Is this so? Are all unbelievers necessarily sinners simply by the fact of their unbelief?

3. Was Jesus Christ a being capable of committing sin? If he was, did he ever sin? If he was not capable of sin, then what was the purpose of Satan attempting to tempt him? Was Satan unaware that Christ was incapable of sin? If Jesus was incapable of sin, then did he have free will? Is it possible to create a person with free will but without the capability of committing sin? If so, then why didn't God make humans that way in the first place?

4. Do saved souls in heaven have "free will"? If so, is it possible for people in heaven to commit sin? If not, why not?

5. What is the doctrine of "original sin"? How is it conceivable that a person is guilty for the sins committed by their ancestors, or that for a person to commit a sin invariably means that their descendants will be sinners?

Hello everyone. I wanted to post a defense of my Jewish beliefs.

1) The Tanakh: The Tanakh encompasses all of God's commands for daily life (ie Kosher laws, Sabbath restirctions or circumcision practices). It also contains the story of the Jewish people from the golden age of the monarchy, through the exile, through Greek and Roman conquests. The Tanakh contains depths of knowledge about human life in relationship with Hashem.

2) The Mishnah and the Talmuds: At times, the Tanakh is archaic and difficult to understand. Commandments that were applicable 3000 years ago no longer have practical significance today. The Mishnah represents Hashem's continued revealtion to the Jewish people through oral tradition. The Talmud updates the Torah to be more applicable to daily life in accordance with God's progressive revelation.

3) Failure of the Jewish monarchy: King Solomon built the incredible Temple in Jerusalem. However, Solomon was also essentially a henotheist. This practice of henotheism continued through the divided monarchy (see Chronicles). Their failure demonstrates the necessity for Jews to maintain worship in the one true God.

The bible is one of the first forms of dialog recorded that exploits the relationship and communication between the conscious and subconscious mind as well as presents dialog presenting scenes of people having conversations about it...
The bible also presents symbology throughout the dialog exploiting the psychology of mans existence in the simplist form to such an extent that it becomes an account that speaks/communicates directly to the subconscious...

The inner alien = subconscious
The human = conscious

GOD is not a seperate entity or a being that made mankind...
There is no believing in god or not believing in god...
GOD exists and you have no choice about it...
We exist as a part of GOD by definition...
If everyone around me believes differently then I have no choice....
I am subject to my surroundings that the people around me are either
A- in denial
B- Unable to come to rational decisions on there own...
C- don't care
Whatever the case may be I am not defining myself as christian but I believe in the way Jesus defined GOD...
The symbology is clear and often misconstrude...
As a functioning person in society/GOD Jesus/son of god was the messenger/word as an example for others to follow...
I do not believe jesus is coming back from the "HEAVENS"...
The symbology of what happened in the biblical story I believe is not to be taken so literally... not to be taken literally...
We should share the word/messeges which doesn't just mean the bible, but symbolically also means important information/knowledge...

This is a response I sent to someone's YouTube comment via YouTube in-mail:

 Respond if you want, just thought I'd express myself.

"There have been so many findings in Israel, and the Middle East that coincide with the Bible, Cory. SO many. My dad is a Professor, a Ph. D in English, & he has read 100x more than I ever have about religion, and he has read the Bible, taken classes, he has read old writings, there is evidence of Jesus.

The bible has geometric patterns in its text that no scientist can explain. My dad said hebrew text makes up numbers, or some crazy shit like that, I don't know exactly, he'd have to explain it again, but each book in the bible has patterns when the text is converted to numbers. Patterns...the writers didn't do it on purpose."

No doubt there's some important stuff I'll have missed; feel free to add to the list as you see fit:

God did not create the universe

Our universe was formed via the expansion of a singularity and subsequent formation of structures by hydrogen atoms through gravitational attraction. A magical deity adds nothing to the known explanation.

God did not create the solar system or the Earth

Our sun was formed by the particle clouds left behind from previous stars, and our planet (as well as every other planet in the solar system) formed from an accretion disk surrounding our sun.

God did not create life on Earth

Life on Earth was formed through a chemical evolutionary process known as 'abiogenesis' (not to be confused with modern evolutionary science, dealing with the propagation of alleles through a population).

God did not create homo sapiens

Homo sapiens evolved along the primate branch of the genetic tree. We are simply the 'latest model' of great apes.

God did not give us 'souls' or 'free will'

Human beings are conscious and self-aware via their brains. An extra, magical source for our intelligence adds nothing to the known explanation.

God has yet to answer a prayer

Under controlled conditions, when a request is made via prayer for something unambiguous, nothing ever happens.

 I agreed that it's not enough to say that 39% of Americans believe in Evolution.  So, I searched for more data.  Thank Pew, there's more data to be had:

In a statement that's disturbingly close to confirmation of that 39% number, the researchers had this to say:

Here's a LINK to the full Pew Report

Oh, and just for shits and giggles, here's something straight from the Baptists: