It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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I don't need a hunch, you have laid out the inner workings of your mind for all to see.
If you have found what you are looking for, then why are you here? Why are you not spending every waking moment on your knees.
I assume darkness = logic and rational, because those are the enemies of your fantasy.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
You say that he called you arrogant because your ideas are different. No he called you arrogant because of how you came about those ideas, not the ideas themselves. He called you arrogant because you have no evidence to back up your ideas.
You also said atheist ideas were not far off dim headlights but you also gave no examples for you claim. Give one example of our atheist ideas that is less truthful than the bible.
You also state that you have found what you are looking for and that is the truth from your side. But why is it the truth from your side? Why do you believe in the scriptures? I believe for example that we evolved from animals from evidence such as our tail bones, thumbs etc.
You see I have evidence. But you have none. You are but a sad sheep following a book writen by men about some story that was passed down through word and mouth 2000 years ago.
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You cannot disprove the existance of God, but you also cannot disprove the existance of an all powerfull, incomprehesible, pink elephant that lives in the boot of my car.
Then why do you feel the need to lie ? What's the point of doing that ? Please explain.
robj101,
And these sweeping statements are another example of what I am supposed to accept as proof and reasoning.
For one, I am here robj101 by invitation. Have you read the home page for this website? Believers in God are invited to come and discuss their faith with atheists, so I am partaking of atheist hospitality. And we are looking each other in the face (is that your face anonymouse?) and discussing our faiths. You have a lot of faith in your ability to read minds for instance. You should have known why I am here. You should sharpen your axe and succeed with less strength.
Again, I think you contradict yourself "assuming" my meaning - I thought in your first statement you knew. I think possibly your faith is not in something unseen but rather something not there. (I think you proved you're not God, though)
Indeed you and other believers are invited to discuss your faith - why did you stop?
Or have you even started?
I always thought of a discussion as an exchange of ideas - would you like to give some? Your sermonettes don't help much in that regard.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Yes I agree. Although I have never hered the word sermonettes before.
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You cannot disprove the existance of God, but you also cannot disprove the existance of an all powerfull, incomprehesible, pink elephant that lives in the boot of my car.
You are indeed discussing your faith, and it has no bearing on the point of this forum, you could discuss your faith with people who have similair ideas. The forum you posted in is atheist vs theist. Common sense would lead one to believe that this is a debate forum. Preaching and falsifying are not on par with the precepts of this notion.
As far as me not being god, how would you really be able to presume such a thing, perhaps I am here testing your faith my child.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Have you read the rules ? Preaching is not allowed. Neither is answering questions with bible quotes. As for dodging troll badges by re-registering under another name, well...
You've been doing that for over three years now. How about a little honesty in return ?
You haven't been paying attention. We don't have "faiths". And what do you mean "is that your face anonymouse ?". Is what my face ? Do you want a picture now ?
He doesn't need to read minds. He just needs to read. Did he ask you why you were here ? Considering your behaviour in this thread, that's a fair question.
He's not assuming, he's reading what you wrote. But fair enough, you don't want people to assume ? Good, then you should answer my question, so I won't have to assume anything. So please explain, why do you insist on lying even about things that have nothing to do with religion ? If you don't explain that, then what else can we do but assume ?
I will "assume" from his statement that he thinks we are the same person.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Heh...then I guess he's still the same old "fonzie" and he hasn't been reading any of our posts outside his own thread.
Anyway, if that's what he's doing, don't take offense. I think he's just a bit upset with me because I keep reminding him of his past as a troll on this board, and the fact that he lied about it when asked. I still don't understand what he could hope to gain from such an obvious lie.
robj101,
You know, robj101, the real God doesn't have to go around taking polls and asking proof for Himself. The Bible starts right out of the blocks assuming that anybody with the intelligence of a pencil eraser knows God Is. The Bible doesn't insult us trying to prove God.
As far as preaching/debating that's just a definition game used by many here to take to the high grass rather than face and answer issues. Then after obviating say "I already answered that".
For instance robj101 axe-in-hander, what is your answer to fundamental questions like: where did the first tailbone come from and - several tail-bones later where are our butts headed?
I have stated I believe the Bible totally. We have been created by God, spoken into existence, saved by God through Christ (our choice), and will live eternally with God or go to eternal destruction if we refuse to accept God's free gift in Christ. These are my points of the debate - what are your counter points? Or are you just going to take the escape route of labeling as "preaching" and think that magic word exempts you from said debating?
Here is my debate, if you wish to pursue this line of reasoning: I do not believe in your made up god, I do not think your bible was created by your made up god and furthermore I do not believe you are being honest with yourself or anyone else for that matter. You are deluding yourself with a man made text and word of mouth passed down from generation to generation. You are wasting your time, and mine at this point as it has become more than obvious you will not be swayed untill the time of your death, and even at that time, you will not even realize what you have not accomplished in life, because you will be dead and gone.
I accept the truth of our existence, in so much as we know and learn of on a daily basis. You would do well to rethink your life and enjoy what we have rather than postulating and preaching of things you can not confirm outside of "faith".
Now, your rebuttal, will be more nonsensical drivel and probably less poigniant than what I have just said. But this seems to be your method of debate, so I shall stoop to the base of your soapbox and wipe the floor with you in your own preachy manner.
As an aside you mention my axe frequently, is this item imposing on your rationality, or your perception of my line of reasoning?
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
So your saying the real God doesn't need to go around posting on forums yet he feels the need to create imperfect beings, blame them for his mistake and then expect them to beleive all this from the evidence of a book written two thousand years ago about stories that were passed down through word and mouth 100 years prior?
You say thy your points of the debate are that we have been created by God, spoken into existence, saved by God through Christ (our choice), and will live eternally with God or go to eternal destruction if we refuse to accept God's free gift in Christ. However you are missing one crucial thing that is always used in a debate. Can you guess what that might be? It called evidence.
You have not given one shred of evidence for your beliefs. That is my point. If you reply to this, only give the reasons for why you belive in the bible. This is your evidence for you point in the argument. Then I can place my rebutting points. Do not reply to this post without evidence. Also don't reply to this post telling me I worship Satan, hate God, oranything like that.
Note: If you reply giving no evidence then I will assume you have none.
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You cannot disprove the existance of God, but you also cannot disprove the existance of an all powerfull, incomprehesible, pink elephant that lives in the boot of my car.
It gets more and more ridiculous...
The questions you haven't answered and the issues you ignored are beyond counting. Accusing other people of avoiding answering your questions is simply another lie.
That's because they have ! Read their posts !! This is no longer a discussion between atheists and a theist. This is a discussion between people who can read and someone who simply refuses to do so.
What exempts him and everyone else from debating this yet again, is the simple fact that any question you have about evolution has already been answered, all your objections dealt with, and everything explained to you in the simplest of terms by Deludedgod in your first thread.
Here's the link, just in case you "forgot" again: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/9886?page=18
Your "debate" with deludedgod about the same subject picks back up around post 931 and runs for two more pages. Your behaviour in that discussion takes "taking to the high grass", as you put it, to new levels of cowardice, and this eventually led to you earning a well-deserved troll badge.
Anyone who wants to devote any amount of time to discussing evolution with you, should read that discussion, so they'll know what's going to happen.
(the proof that this is the same guy is in post 553 in this thread, and in other posts of mine where I brought this up)
And I'm still waiting for the answer to my question : Why do you insist on lying about things that have nothing to do with religion ? What could you possibly hope to gain from that ?
because if there is in fact a Hell, I'll make a personal point of actually going there
Walpurgisnacht 4 life!
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
God doesn't need to prove himself to anybody.........he does, however, require a single species of bipedal organisms on a puny planet to worship him everyday.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
#1202 Anonymouse
Fonzie,
It pains me to see that you are still caught in the diabolical intellectual lie known as christianity. It has been well-established that the Industry of Lithium invented the jesus lie to control the working class, by brainwashing them with a false sense of happiness.
If you would only accept Elvis into your liver, you would realize this for yourself.
There are no theists on operating tables.
DarkSam,
I'm saying if you come on with "prove I'm not God" you've already proved it because God wouldn't do that. Jesus triumphed in lowliness. He came to earth as the lowliest servant....of servants. Everything He did was lowly and humble - I mention this "point" for you as "exhibit A" that neither Jesus nor God need to try to exalt themselves, least of all come on asking prove They aren't God.
I laid out my debate points - Creation: that God spoke the world into existence. Meaning: that God loves us to the degree that He sacrificed His Only begotten Son as the Lamb of God so our spiritual debt could be paid with Jesus' blood. Eternal life: It begins now. Knowing Jesus is eternal life. The road continues on until it turns to gold, the non tarnishing kind.
You ask for proof. It's the biggest lie that a sinner (that's all of us) is free. A sinner is chained in conscience, heart, mind and will. It's imprisonment and loss of liberty of the deepest dye. I have experienced that darkness of the waterless pit. Now I have experienced and am experiencing an abundant life getting ever more abundant. So that promise has been fulfilled.
Jesus has promised His presence 24/7 and I am experiencing that. Jesus promised strength and life power in the Holy Spirit. I am experiencing that. Jesus promised the power to break the chains of sin - I am experiencing that power.
God has revealed Himself in ways that produce ever growing faith in Him. I am experiencing that.
1. There are so many evil things that God (as recorded in his book) had no problems doing but proving himself is right out?
2. You have just admitted that you have no conscience, are heartless and have no mind or will of your own. How is that a good thing?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Er....yes ? If you read the post you copied that from, you'll know I told you that would be a fair question, considering your behaviour here.
So you either didn't read it, or you forgot, or you're just kidding again, I suppose.
No problem. This takes me about three seconds a day, so I can afford to be patient. So I'll ask you again :
If it works for you, then why do feel you have to lie ? Why would you spend so much time and energy deceiving us, even when the subject isn't religion ?
You skipped a post, btw. #1216
According to you, god is all powerful, so he can do whatever he likes. You don't get to say what he does or doesn't do. We've been over this already. He could choose to be called "rob" and there wouldn't be a blessed thing you could do about it.
And you were defeated on that score. I recently posted the link where this happened. (It happened a lot, but that's the best one)
That would be preaching again. Sam didn't ask for that, he asked for proof.
You read his post !! Good for you !
Personal experience isn't proof. If you didn't know that, well, then you've learned something today.
Also, you forgot to mention the rather poweful mood-altering drugs you're taking. I really hope you were kidding about not taking regular bloodtests.
zarathustra,
Just because you offer sweets doesn't mean you're sugar - ever heard of lead or antifreeze? Who died and made you Elvis?
And as for the question of personal experience being evidence there is nothing that has been offered by atheists on this forum that isn't connected to personal experience.
I'm beginning to think atheists couldn't even prove they are atheists.
I'm still awaiting a response to my last post mr "what is your gospel".
Another lie.
And a pretty spectacular one at that. You've been offered facts and you've happily ignored them all. The most obvious examples of this are to be found in your dealings with Bob (about one page ago ) and Deludedgod (see the link I provided a few posts ago).
So again, I'm wondering, did you forget, or are you just kidding again ?
And why lie again ? Why do you keep doing that ?
He would like to pretend that we draw our conclusions based on faith, completely ignoring the fact that most of us have used observable evidence and critical thinking in regards to the scriptures on the plausibility of an invisible presence that dictates our lives.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Do you know that for a fact? Maybe God is testing you to see if you can prove he exists to an atheist that he is pretending to be. God moves in mysterious ways doesn't he?
Your beleifs, check.
You go on to say that you evidence is that we are all chained up and not free as sinners. Then you tell me of your experiences with you life getting more abundant. How is this evidence that the bible is true? Please clarify because either your evidence was in the form of some kind of talk about abundant life and chained up sinners or I am msunderstanding.
You are experiencing power from Jesus, is this the proof that you mean? Seriously how are you experienceing the power of the holy spirit? In what form? Because I don't seem to be experiencing it.
Did I miss when God revealed himself? Or was it as a Christans only meeting?
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You cannot disprove the existance of God, but you also cannot disprove the existance of an all powerfull, incomprehesible, pink elephant that lives in the boot of my car.
But that's the thing though. He doesn't just ignore evidence and critical thinking, he just flat out lies about stuff that doesn't even get into theological or scientific arguments. I'm not calling him a liar because I don't believe in god, I'm calling him a liar because I can read !
Btw, don't hold your breath waiting for a reply. This thread didn't get to 1000+ posts because it's so interesting. It got this way because he ignores the same points and questions again and again and again....
(Oh, but if you stick around, you'll get to see him declare victory and martyrdom ("I've been mocked !" ) . He does that every 5 pages or so. )
Jesus offered me nothing but stale wafers and withered figs. Elvis died so that I might have fried bananas for eternity.
You are an atheist in respect to Elvis. I understand you can't make anybody believe in Elvis, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Perhaps what we percieve as lies, are his faith....yar matey, all aboard the boat of scriptures and dogma!
The whole bible is a big fat stinking pile of lie. Were we to lift some pieces of stink we find it is laced with just enough truth to fascinate the sheep.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
DarkSam,
I looked and looked for something of substance to reply to and you are the closest to it.
As far as what we know DarkSam as men we are at a disadvantage by definition. We think we think we know some things but we don't know what God is doing we are at a disadvantage there (as Job was) except for what God reveals to us at His pleasure (He's God and does what He pleases) and enables us to know. Actually probably all we "know" we know by faith in something. It could be faith in books we got out of the library, faith in some guy that catches our fancy, faith in our own ideas, faith in our perception of what we perceive. It's good man is capable of faith because that probably sums it up as to what we know.
We've seen gravity, named it, experienced it - but what do we really know about it. We've seen things grow, what do we know? We've maybe sat through some boring classes, seen some Latin names for things on plants, looked at some pictures, named it, claimed it, but what do we know? We have faith in something or somebody or "what you said" or what your brother in law told you that sells insurance.
I admit faith. I think faith is a good thing, especially when you find out which way to point it. I have had a long faith/experience with what the Bible says that confirms and solidifies faith in the God of consistency that revealed Himself in it. You can put your faith in your uncle Clyde or whoever but know that they had to put their faith in somebody or something too. I have found the consistency and the living God first hand, artistically, spiritually, answering prayer with no batteries, lighting my way with spiritual gps through the Living Word, which is the Spirit of Christ.
You explain and prove to me how you are an atheist without putting your faith in something or somebody who has led you to this moronic conclusion and me putting my faith in your explanation of your developed faith that you have no faith. You guys are always going to prove something or have already proved something nobody ever sees, saw, or did - it would take more faith than anyone could ever generate to hologram it.
Moreso, we haven't seen jesus, because he is just a subliminal hologram projected to deceive us from accepting Elvis. We've maybe sat through some boring jesus prayers, seen some Latin names for jesus-related things, looked at some stained-glass images, but what do we know?
These experiences have been clinically documented in individuals with dangerously high levels of lithium in their bloodstream. Elvis could cleanse your prostates of this deception-inducing lithium if you would allow himself to reveal Himself to you.
There are no theists on operating tables.
How the hell did he do that?!
As an atheist you don't need faith, atheism means there is no evidence to believe something so we do not believe in it. The only evidence for a divine being is made by man. You mock science but science has proven things from the bible to be false. The world does not sit on 4 pillars, nor is it flat, nor does the sun rotate around us. The bible claims all of these and more. Of the more than hundreds of various religions that have come and gone and of the ones that are here today, we just decided to pick..yea, none.
You don't want to admit that faith is all that makes you really believe in the nonsense written by sadistic chauvenistic men 1000's of years ago.
As a side note, you appreciate what god supposedly did with job and the devil do ya? Such morality to be learned from that fine story. Oh wait, it had some secret purpose other than what the bible says, oooohhh really, who told you that? Which voice in your head was it?
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
♂♂♂☺☺☺♣♣◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘
Beats me.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
≈≈Ï≈≈ @_@ ≈≈Ï≈≈
(damn that took way too much effort!)
(edit; AND I STILL HAVEN't GOTTEN IT RIGHT! ARRRGGGHH)
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
It *DOESN'T* work for me, got that??? Never has, never will...
This is getting quite long lol, Im replying to your reply to my reply to your reply to my reply to your reply to robs point. Anyway to the points.
Ok
You say that basicly all we know about God is through faith. Faith is blind to the facts and evidence. So we cannot KNOW anything about anything through or from faith because faith is beleivig something by ignoring all the facts and evidence.
What do we know about gravity? We know that gravity causes things to be pulled towards another object in space. We know that gravity exists. We know that even small objects have a small amount of a gravitational pull. We know that gravity is an extreamly weak force compared to the other known forces (magnetism etc.). These are some of the things we know about gravity. But what do we know about God? Um.... some people have faith in the existance of him, err..... a book was written about him. Not much. We don't have any proper evidence for God, but we do have for gravity.
You then go on to ask me how I can be an atheist without faith in something. Well for a start I don't need faith to be an atheist because an atheist is basically someone who does not beleive in a deity. Faith is the belief in something without any evidence or proof. Faith is the lack of truth. Atheisim is the lack of faith. Therefore atheisim = truth. Faith is blind.
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You cannot disprove the existance of God, but you also cannot disprove the existance of an all powerfull, incomprehesible, pink elephant that lives in the boot of my car.
Granted, gravity is currently the least well understood of the three fundamental forces, four if you count electromagnetism and weak separately, but it's not even remotely comparable to God. We don't need to have faith in gravity; we can observe the effects of gravity at every moment. Just drop something on the ground. Tada! That's gravity. We know that it acts on mass and is probably a distortion in spacetime according to general relativity. Plant biology is an even worse analogy. We know almost everything precisely about how plants function and why they function the way they do, including how they grow, reproduce, acquire energy from sunlight, etc.
Btw, this is a really bad place for a theist to make the argument that we have faith in scientists. Many people here are science majors, including me, or have science degrees.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
(it's kind of a reference to this thread, anyways)
1. So God keeps us at a disadvantage and punishes us for being in the darkness he keeps us in? Interesting...
2. Or we make observations, collect data, draw conclusions...you know... learn.
3. You admit faith because it is all you have. You've ceded knowledge, will and conscience to your God by your own admission.
4. So the one thing you can say that you think will hurt an atheist's feelings is "You're just like me"? Trippy. It's another lie but it's trippy.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
You means Sam's one of the few left who won't know that the question you're about to put to him has already been answered many, many times in this thread.
And there we have it. Pretty much everyone here has answered this question for you. Somtimes you say you understand, sometimes you say you don't get it. But a couple of posts later, you've already forgotten what we told you, and will be asking the same person or someone else the very same question.
This can get a bit tiresome.
We already know you don't like science very much. That's why I've been trying to focus your attention on the simpler things, such as your dishonest behaviour here. It's been proven that you are a fundamentally dishonest person (at least when you're here), and I've been noticing that you don't seem to care much about that.
I'd like to know why that is, so I'll ask again :
Why doesn't it matter to you that you are a liar ? Do you consider lying to be a religious right ?
Kapkao,
Don't boast putting your armor on as one who takes it off.
It doesn't work for you. "It" being the mystery of how fallen man would be saved, the gospel - conceived in the heart of God before the creation of the world, promised at the fall of man, shadowed by the sacrifices and actions of the law, the mystery unfolded and fulfilled before the eyes of men and angels in the shedding of Christ's blood and with angels looking on men are brought to spiritual life and strength in Christ then if the will of God gladly die for their LORD in faith - singing hymns in the fire - going on to eternal life.
That doesn't work for you. Hmmm. Wonder where the problem is. What is your faith in? Rash wind in your didgeridoo?
I think this will be my final post in this thread and I shall go back to my immoral, ungodly, hellbound and selfish ways. Though I must say, one seeking to put forth such "faith" to the non believers is likely a sign of infidelity and lack of knowledge.
"Remain a sheep, that the playful may bleat and pretend."
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
You just keep rephrasing the same question. Doesn't matter to you how many times we answer it. What is your problem with simply reading what's already been said here, and remembering it for more than three seconds ? And even if you forgot, when not just go back and re-read ? What is the use of pretending your questions haven't been answered already ? What's the use of anyone here talking to you about this if you're simply going to pretend they never spoke, and ask the same questions again and again and again..
I'm just guessing here, but maybe you keep doing this so you won't notice the by now enormous volume of questions and arguments your "faith" apparently can't handle.
So if you came here to demonstrate the weakness of your faith, then your job is done.
If, on the other hand, you really want to shed some light on your way of thinking, then please explain : Why did you lie ? In the context of your faith, how does that help you ?
Butterbattle,
You have faith in what you have faith in, or faith in your perception of the object of your faith. You have faith here in your comparison not being comparable to God. You have faith in your experience; i.e. with gravity. You have faith in the names and jingle you've read in your physics book that enable you to pontificate in a scientific sounding way. You have faith in ideas and your vision of them. You have faith in your rating of analogies. You have faith in what you think you know precisely, and functions functioning, and that you understand what you see happening, acquiring, energizing, growing, absorbing, etc.
This is a bad place for you to come and say you don't have faith and then illustrate it from so many angles.
Your faith is your faith. These things have lost their fascination with me because of something uncomparably better, greater, far more fulfilling, eternal rather than transient - Christ.
If you would only accept the truth of Elvis, you would realize that jesus doesn't work for you either. Jesus is a dangerous mental parasite; it gains control of your mind and forces you to think that it works for you, even as it cuts away at your soul, like a coping saw through a block of cedar. The "spiritual life and strength" you think jesus brings is like unlicensed steroids: plesing the gullible with its short-term results, while scar tissue and tumors form underneath.
Jesus is a plague, and Elvis has the cure.
There are no theists on operating tables.
As usual, you show your ignorance of how the scientific/pragmatic/empirical view of reality works.
No 'faith' in the religious sense required.
Merely a reasonable assumption that what we actually observe has a consistent correspondence to whatever may really exist 'out there', ie outside our mind.
We don't need anything more than that, because our world-view is based on what can be consistently shown to most likely to be true, by actual straightforward testing.
Where the details are beyond our resources to test ourselves, we base our understanding on what the scientific consensus is, as being most likely to be true, based on plenty of evidence that things we use everyday, from cars to computers, are based on scientific discoveries, and they seem to work pretty much as promised.
Its all really simple and common sense, all we need is what I call 'working assumptions' about the nature of the world, which we are prepared to adjust whenever we are confronted with sufficient evidence that they need adjustment, that something we had assumed is probably not quite correct.
We should base our beliefs about the world on as many different sources as seem reliable and relevant.
The only 'faith' required is 'faith' in the idea that the confidence we have in any particular 'knowledge' about the world should be based on the balance of the evidence for and against it, and that nothing apart from the approach I am describing in this statement should be held to be true in any absolute sense. Apart from things that amount to definitional and deductive 'truths' such as in logic and mathematics.
Put it another way, the only absolute truth about existence is that we can never really know the absolute truth about the 'real' nature of existence.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Nah.
I don't have faith in any of those things, and I have not implicated such. You assume I do because you cannot grasp how I could write what I've written without having faith.
There is simply no necessity for me to hold to anything absolutely. I hold to things probabilistically; of course, usually, we can't actually put a percentage on it, but qualitatively is enough. At most, I might have faith in other people, but this is a different definition than the religious idea. Trust in other people is based on experience and is open to change; both of those characteristics directly contradict religious faith. Even in a case where the probability of something might not be higher than 50%, I still don't have 'faith' in it. I can still act on it for other reasons, in way that seems contradictory to people like yourself. For example, I freely admit that I could be a brain a vat; however, I always act like reality is really as I perceive it. I do this simply because I want to or, to borrow from "natural" (the poster), acting like reality is as I perceive it holds pragmatic value. Acting like I am a brain in vat has no such value whatsoever. So, for all intents and purposes, I might as well act like I am not a brain in a vat.
Alright, I'll be patient and address many of your claims individually today.
I'm not sure what that means. But, I certainly don't have faith in atheism. At least, for a generic intelligent first cause, I hold to my non-belief probabilistically, even if the probability is very low. And, I'm willing to change my belief if the evidence arises, so by definition, it's not faith.
Well...no. Faith is belief without evidence. Since I'm the one that had the experience, I think that's pretty good evidence for me that I had the experience.
Btw, that's almost an oxymoron. Faith has to be independent of experience.
You mean I have faith in the reality described by those names and jingle?
Uuuhh, no.
I know that the scientific method works; I see it working everyday. More specifically, I am often able to observe and verify what I read in books, especially with basic mechanics of course, but also with electromagnetism, optics, electric circuits, thermodynamics, etc. Even in areas where this isn't really the case because of the difficulty of verifying the knowledge (e.g. special relativity and quantum mechanics), I still don't have faith at all. I hold to them tentatively, and I change my beliefs when I observe new evidence.
The quality of an analogy is actually fairly objective. An analogy is good if it accurately reflects the point being made i.e. if the analogy has all the same relevant characteristics.
Most members of this forum would say that you have faith in God without understanding God at all. You were defending your belief in God by comparing this to science, right? Hey, atheist devote themselves to plant biology, but what do they really know about it? Well, the answer is that we know almost everything about it, so the analogy perfectly fails. We don't have faith in plant biology without understanding plant biology at all. We DO understand plant biology.
No. We strictly use sound reasoning and empirical evidence. We don't hold to claims absolutely, based on faith, at all. If new evidence arises, we change our positions. By definition, that cannot be faith. Are you going to tell me next that I have faith in evidence?
I find it interesting that so many people have such a hard time grasping this simple concept. It's really emblematic of the way you project your beliefs onto others.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare