It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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Fonzie, it pains me to see how christianity has infested you with the locusts of falsehood. Caught in the clutches of the cancerchrist, you continue to avoid the truth, lying incessantly, and refusing an infinite number of times to answer simple binary ('a' or 'b') questions. How long will you run, refusing to answer?
Will you go to Graceland and live, or die In the Ghetto, built by the jesus, the slumlord of lies?
There are no theists on operating tables.
What does this mean?
Yea he lives in you like Santa lives in the brain of a credulous sponge of a child.
Ok, so you literally believe that Lot fucked his daughters and offered one of them up as a sex sacrifice so that he could avoid having his home destroyed?
You literally believe that female bears butchered kids because some bald guy called on his sky friend because they picked on his chrome dome?
You literally believe that god spoiled the sperm of men in Malachi 2:3 because they wouldn't obey him?
You find it ok for all human beings besides Noah and his family to literally swallow water, including innocent women and children, whose only crime was picking the wrong club, you find that genocidal cleansing for the benefit of one family at the expense of the torture of the rest of humanity, you find that moral?
I hope you don't literally believe the words in the bible, that would make you a monster.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Ah, the "the Law was fulfilled in Jesus so it doesn't apply anymore" argument. You realize it stands against your "sin is not a trifle to God" you made earlier? You must have - that's why you fell back on the "might makes right" argument.
Jesus' death was the death of Death? Well, that explains why you claim eternal life now. But... Christians die. Looks like death is still out and about.
You believe in God in Christ but not that God is Christ. You also believe in God in you. Do you believe that Christ was no one special or that you are Christ?
If there are mischaracterizations of Jesus in this thread, they are based on evidence you're giving. It's also hilarious that you dismiss 100%atheist's view as "anecdotal evidence" when that is all you have ever provided.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Fonzie,
Thank you for answers.
It is no doubt the Death of Jesus must have been a very important moment for God. Would it be correct to say that the God was not well known before Christ, and that people have learned about the God through the life and Death of Jesus Christ?
Best,
100%
We seem to be in the process of letting him weasel out of this yet again. Another try then...
Do you value truth more or do you value your beliefs more? Type "(a)" for truth. Type "(b)" for your beliefs.
Unbelief is a great virtue, it destroys the tyranny of mind-destroying psychological traps, memes, like Religion.
Which is why they typically make it such a supreme 'sin'.
The strong demonization of lack of belief is a sure sign of an irrational belief system, with a lack of real justification to back it up.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
When belief demands to be protected from scrutiny it should a red flag, on any given claim, on any subject, religious or not.
Claims of god and the demand not to pick on them, is no different than the magician not letting you in on his secrets. Their insecurities of loss of power over your mind cause them to hide their scam.
Credulity is the childish ego refusing to grow up. So rather than admit when one is wrong, the believer will sink desperately into their delusion to convince themselves their claims are true. But they cannot escape no matter how hard they try, the fact that claims of magical non-material brains are not testable or falsifiable nor can they be independently verified.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Just got tired of repeating all the oft-asked questions that make poor little Fonzie uncomfortable.
How is that fear of examining your beliefs coming long, Fonzie lad?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Call me overly optimistic, but I really think we can help this guy. Allowing him the room to preach and lie his little heart out may not be the right approach. I could be wrong, I guess.
I'm gonna take a break from this. You guys have fun.
(That's the fun thing about this thread. You can drop out for months, and when you come back he still won't have answered the question, or adressed anything anyone brought up since the thread started )
BobSpence1,
"Unbelief is a great virtue?" - ha!
So you think it would be a great virtue for your son or daughter to not believe in you, to go to sleep not knowing they could trust you, what you say or what you will do, or that you will take care of his or her needs and be there for them no matter what?
If you present this as a great virtue I think it is reasonable to any honest scientific tester that you are calling bad "good" and good "bad", which is fitting in the fellowship of darkness you play to on this website of atheists who are also chunks of ingratitude. They along with you can't see that any good thing they have or think they do is a step-child of what they have been given by the mercies of God. Even the tree you lean against is a gift you enjoy from God while you ignorantly expound your false unscientific doctrine.
Your unbelief is the product of the tyranny that both enslaves and blinds you and your atheist colony not a power that destroys anything - the least of which is the unknown joy (to you) of knowing God in Jesus Christ and fellowship with Him in the Holy Spirit. You are in the heaven news cartoon section - "The Blind Side" - heaven is a happy place and you are bringing with this far out stuff.
"Belief" in a real person, as in the sense of trust, especially when referring to a member of the family, is using the word in a totally different way from the the idea of "belief' in some dogma or doctrine which lacks adequate evidence, which is what I was referring to, so that response is totally irrelevant. If you meant that as a serious response, you are very confused.
If some claim or idea has adequate justification or supporting argument, it should not be a matter of "belief", in the sense of belief in a particular faith, it should be a matter of provisional or conditional acceptance, in the sense of "Ok, I'll assume that's true for the time being, until I get some more evidence which might cast doubt on it".
I can and do use the word when it is reasonably clear it is meant in that sort of provisional, "to the best of my knowledge" sense, but in the context of religious and philosophical discussions, it is a slippery term, so I would avoid it.
I will admit to using the word 'unbelief' in that post with a bit of a rhetorical edge, but I do 'believe' that a position of strong skepticism, questioning, refusal to buy into even popular and widely-held world-views without very solid justification and evidence, is a necessary virtue, when there are so many totally erroneous but emotionally appealing ideas around.
Your belief is the result of the ancient, enslaving tyranny of the mind that is Christianity, a fact you demonstrate with every word of you have just typed.
I am sad for you.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I'd feel more pity for your kids/grandkids (if you have them) because you'd expect them to take everything you say at face value without any supporting evidence of its veracity.
Then you could say to them, "I love you" and beat them repeatedly about the heads and shoulders and everything would be fine because the kids would remember your words and ignore your actions. You'd be just like God then, right?
You want to engender belief, provide evidence. You build trust in your kids by being there and doing things with them and for them - not just by talking about it.
Shouldn't it be the same with God?
Oh, while I'm here What do you value more? The truth or your beliefs? Type (a) for truth or (b) for belief.
Why do you lie and mischaracterize other's positions?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Fonzie, it pains me to see how the poisoned lies of christinanity have syphillated your hypothalamus. In your lithium-induced menopause, you continue to avoid the truth, lying incessantly, and refusing an infinite + 1 number of times to answer simple binary ('a' or 'b') questions. Each time you grab your ankles to duck the answer, another industrial-strength nail is hammered into the the body of your nonexistent jesus.
Will you stay crying in the chapel, swallowing the stale wafers of a fake christ, or live eternally in Vegas, rejoicing in fried chicken suppositories?
There are no theists on operating tables.
Hi Fonzie,
I think you are applying an absolutist approach here. Of course, we all believe in some things. Atheists do not spy on their spouses and they do not disassemble every electronic device for the sake of scientific method.
Also, please stop implying too much about the basis for our unbelief. All people are different, and according to you, we all including atheists are created by the God. Following your logic, our unbelief should be ultimately due to the God, otherwise the God is weak and easily overrun by anyone who experienced the effect of "tyranny". I am quite sure this is NOT what you wanted to say. Or are you talking about Satan??? Does it mean that Satan can beat God in many instances?
By the way, if Eloise reads this... can we consider Satan and God as annihilation and creation operators, respectively? ... and we are ... fermions... weird...
Also, Fonzie, please answer my question in post #1356. It should not be hard for you to answer that one.
Thank you,
100%
Nothing anyone says will breach this massive wall of faith.
.
Lol yea right, not this guy.
Each brick of his wall should be inscribed with the words "self induced ignorance" The strength of each brick is based on complete improbability rendering them immune to reality.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Fonzie will never know the exquisite joy in realizing I had finally freed my mind of the last vestige of feeling that I should still give any respect to the nonsense that is God belief.
Or the feeling of grasping some new insight into the Universe.
I will not envy Fonzie's joys any more than that the highs of any other drug addict.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
BobSpence1,
And what is your "new insight into the Universe" (even though I won't grasp it)?
Yes we do have at least one thing in common Bob: we don't envy each other.
Just one reason for that: your joy is as temporary as the crackle of thorns under the pot.
Like the cave man said when another was enlightened with cooking, "what him do?" It was a scientific discovery. There was a man then who took some of the left over wood and made a god. Then he bowed down to it, his scientific cooking tool.
Fonzie, child.
Bob is referring to any new insight into the universe that he discovers. such insight is denied to you because you look at it and think "God did it - that means I already know all I need to know about and I don't have to think anymore. Good thing too because thinking too much scares me."
Temporary joy now over the hope of eternal boredom after I die (if I've picked the right God)? I'll go with what I know I can experience. It's less risky than fellating you and your God for eternity.
Who's better off? The one who cooks his food and respects the wood for the use he can get out of it or the guys like you who sit in front of a pile of wood wailing for some cloud being to send down fire from the heavens? (Hint - one guy got a meal)
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Cooking was not really a 'scientific ' discovery - it would have been most likely have come about by someone coming across the partially burnt bodies of animals caught in a forest fire. The discovery of fire itself would be a better example, and of he wheel, but all of these examples, including cooking, are more properly described as 'inventions' rather than 'scientific discoveries'.
You are dishonestly and/or ignorantly persisting with your attempt to minimize and almost trivialize the sort of things Science addresses, whereas Science is the only true source of Revelation about the deepest issues of ultimate origins and nature of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
A 'scientific' discovery would more properly apply to one coming about as the result of some more purposeful and systematic investigation of reality and verification
How about finally realizing in a deep sense just how incredibly enormous the Universe is, how utterly insignificant we are, when viewing the Hubble Deep Field pictures for the first time, images which showed that even the darkest parts of the sky are filled with thousands of distant galaxies, each of the same sort of size as our own 'Milky Way'?
It was not of course my personal 'scientific discovery', but it was just one of the many instances when I have come across a discussion or illustration of some aspect of reality revealed by Science, and grasped some new insight which suddenly helped me see a new set of connections between aspects of reality, how it all 'works'. I do my bit in helping others to share the insights, by explaining and interpreting these things to others who don't have quite my background and education.
These insights are part of a continually growing level and depth of understanding, rather than something temporary. I have some reasonable hope that this process of revelation will continue within other enlightened minds once I have ceased to be able to follow it.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Holy Buddha-Jebus-Krishna. I have been away for a few months. This is the last thread I expected to see still going on.
Reminds me of the movie Groundhog's day with Bill Murray. Fonzie babbles on.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
That is a very apt description of Fonzie in general, only in his case it is a conscious choice to remain in the loop.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
BobSpence1,
Your illustration is a classic search for forest among trees, Bob. The Hubble is a nice tool of science to show us a glimpse of the enormity of space - and.....and..... (I'm not going to insult your intelligence Bob. If brains were wool it wouldn't take enough to make leggings for a canary to know you are seeing the Creation of God Who has suspended us in space just for fun - you can see it through your telescope)
Your Hubble tool has to be propelled or it won't move. It has to be energized or it won't transmit. It has to be repaired or it won't work if broke. We can call but it won't hear - unless we tool up with a scientific caller crystal frequency and make an antenna signal launcher.
The God of the Universe is Self Powered, can Move on His Own, Can Hear and Answer, Can See and Know the expanse of the universe yet the number of hairs on your head - and discern the thoughts of all human hearts at once. He knows what we are going to say before the word is on our tongue. He doesn't need batteries. He directs every raindrop. Hopefully you have wipers on that Hubble Bob.
Fonzie,
You're so jaded you've lost sight of forest and trees.
You're so enamored of your belief that "magic man done it" that you've stopped thinking and stopped appreciating things.
When you look at art in any form do you appreciate the work that the artist put in or do you think "God did really good work"?
When you read of a person committing atrocities do you revile the evil actions, blame the devil, or think "God did really good work - those sinners deserved it"?
When you see the results of natural disasters, do you feel anything for the victims and perhaps try to help or do you just admire the mighty hand of God?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
That's one I have pondered. If a religious person kills an non religious person, as has happened many times. Did the devil make the religious person do it? Did god make the religious person do it? Is the devil to blame for the non religious person in the first place? Did god guide the person into being non religious? (as you asked) did god do good work? Is the religious person going to hell for commiting murder? Will he be rewarded for performing a good deed? I could go on but it's already retarded.
Wtf is this wacky scenario really about?
The eye's of the beholder.
I have another scenario, I dont mind getting a little personal on the internet, but I don't like to get tooo personal. But I am going to cite my dad as an example.
My dad says he loved nothing in life more than "Work". Indeed, when I was younger he did seem to be a hard worker. He worked in the oil field. He used to be a "burly" man. More fit and bigger than I am. However he is fast approaching 60 now. He has developed an eating disorder over the years of which he has only recently come to terms with and admitted. He is obese now. He had an ankle fusion surgery a couple of years ago. He claims he worked too hard when he was young, and that god is putting him through his "trial". Me the atheist, moved in to his house for 2 months helping him recover from his surgery. I suppose god made me do it.
This is when I gave up on him concerning religion. My dad is a zealot. He thinks god is punishing him for enjoying work. This is the most ridiculous notion I have heard from him ...ever. Where does all this end? You know it couldn't be because he just, tore his back out, and screwed up his right arm from lifting too much, and he couldn't possibly have developed an eating disorder because he got bored from having to sit around so much not being able to work. God had to have done it.
Madness! The same madness that is so obvious in our dear little Fonzie. God is guiding each raindrop, wow I thought I had a good imagination.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Despite all those finite physical flaws of Hubble, the point was what it revealed to us, containing vastly more truth about the nature of our reality than that entire collection of errors and bankrupt morality and delusion known as the Bible.
I was responding to the anything magical or wondrous about Hubble, as you seem to be trying to argue, by comparing its limitations to your unlimited flawless imaginary friend, the wonder is in what even such a flawed, limited tool could reveal to us.
Just now I watched the latest eruptions from our Sun on my iPhone, courtesy of NASA and modern Science and Technology, revealing in a graphic way just how insignificant we and our whole planet are on the cosmic scale - any of those flares could vaporise the Earth in an instant if it was nearby. And there is a very real possibility that a big flare will bring our whole technical civilization to its knees one day.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
But that will be "gods" decision right.
God guided your engineers hands as he built the hubble. God built the hubble, god did every freakin thing. That's why these major zealots are so worthless.
God is allowing us to have electricity, and he decided that my ceiling fan should work when I pull the cord. He apparently decided I should be posting this on the internet as well. At this moment he is deciding to let some kids starve to death. He is deciding to let someone get raped, he is deciding children are born..possibly some that he already knows will die of starvation. On and on and on with this ridiculous carp.
Madness I tell you, madness!
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
BobSpence1,
While a glimpse (a glimpse - a glimpse, yes a glimpse, ONLY a glimpse, indeed nothing more than a glimpse) of space has been opened up to you with your Hubble - the Word of God remains closed - you are looking through the wrong end of the Hubble at it. So you scoff at what you don't know and can't even view - indeed you have no "viewer" for it. An additional complication is your arrogance that you can and do view the universe of the Scriptures. There are obstacles in your way Bob. A haughty spirit goes before a fall. A lifetime of it go before destruction. You could get down and get help to remove these obstacles but observe safe lifting practice and call for help.
It is a Universe (The Word of God) with more expanse and wonder than that seen with your Hubble Bob, but you need the viewer. You could get it at the door when you go through - you couldn't go through with your nose in the air, nor could you take that attitude through.
Let me tell you Bob, though, the view is great! It reveals just how significant we are to the cosmic creator. He has the power to vaporize yet the sacrificial love to wash your feet. His presence made sight will bring all of civilization to its knees one day. The burden of the LORD will either be seen as the substance & weighty gold it is now (with repentance) or will be a back breaking burden later. He took our burden to the Cross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You cannot disprove the existance of God, but you also cannot disprove the existance of an all powerfull, incomprehesible, pink elephant that lives in the boot of my car.
He is invisible, he is outside our universe, he IS the universe, He is everything and nothing. I believed in this fairy tale when I was young and I heard all of these answers, you can attribute anything and everything to god, and when this guy made his raindrop claim, he gave it all away.
I used to be confused and depressed being torn between wanting to believe (because everyone else seemed to) and seeing how things really are. Since I removed the blind of religion, I can see out the window, I wouldn't claim to know everything but I think it is a step closer. This guy loves his blind, he has decorated it with bull shit.
To him the hubble has revealed nothing more interesting than a blade of grass, because god did it, and god can do anything, so what's so amazing about it?
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Poor Fonzie - afraid to peek behind the curtain. He just might see the Wizard and that would mean he'd have to leave Oz.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Fonzie, it pains me to see how cowardly and dishonest the lies of jesus have made you. Having inhaled sawdust and varnish through years of non-union carpentry work, you continue to avoid the truth, lying incessantly, and refusing an infinite + 3 number of times to answer simple binary ('a' or 'b') questions.
Jesus has nailed you up with his lies and rolled a boulder in front of your intellect. Only Elvis can roll it away.
There are no theists on operating tables.
He has seen the wizard, he just ignores it, pretends it doesn't exist.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
zarathustra,
You can't attribute your pain to me - and you can't make any lying label stick to the Name of Jesus. As to boulders in my way - I have the ultimate in footwear: the shoes of the gospel of peace. You simply set up your own version of truth and bravery and use it to justify your blasphemy and yourself and condemn me and whoever doesn't play in your world. It's a serious thing you do - to yourself, not me. There is such a thing as what is falsely called "knowledge" zarathustra, and you have beamed yourself thoroughly up into that paradigm by your rejection of The Lamb of God and His Atoning Sacrifice.
As to your ABBA question - Truth and belief, I have answered that. Jesus is Truth and I believe in Him - ABBA. And your so called "pain" for me is every bit as false as your doctrine. Whatever "pain" you may think you do have - for that Elvis may well be the "love me tender" solution.
Fonzie, it pains me to see how your lies multiply like a yeast infection on matzo. When asked to answer a simple binary 'a' or 'b' question, you choose both answers, twice (ABBA). Thus for an infinite + 4 number of times, have you refused to answer 'a' or 'b', with the stubbornness of Baalam's talking mule.
Fonzie was a son of Zion masquerading as an Italian. Continue with your lies, and there shall be no Happy Days for you.
Will you follow the lies of the Galilean carpenter, or the truth of the Truck Driver from Tupelo. Choose 'a' or 'b', but choose wisely.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Fonzie, you lie to yourself. You have chosen the easy road of a comforting delusion, rather than the harder road of Truth, where we cannot let ourselves accept things as real just because they make us feel all nice inside.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I don't know, Fonzie. You've been a pain in my butt for a few years now.
It's bad enough that you don't read others' posts but the fact that you call yourself Christian and have never read your Bible is well....typical.
If you had, you'd know that Jesus himself never claimed to be God and that your worship of him constitutes idolatry brought forth by Paul. You might also know that he fulfilled zero Messianic prophecies. He made references to the "son" and the "son of man" but never said that those were references to himself
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
BobSpence1,
By your unbelief in Jesus and the gospel you have come under a strong delusion to make you believe what is false (2 Thessalonians 2.9-12)
And do you think it is a trifle to follow in the steps of Jesus? Have you read He was a "man of sorrows" and acquainted with grief? Or does your delusion tell you differently?
I have at least some empirical evidence for my position, you just have your feelings, you are the one basing your position on delusion.
Your whole OP was about how great your belief makes you feel, how happy it makes you feel, I am talking about how well you claim it works for you, not about what his path might have meant for Jesus.
I am pointing out you are taking the road that makes you happy, according to your own claim.
I am taking the road that seems to best lead toward the Truth, regardless of whether it makes me happy or not. It does give a feeling of honesty and integrity, at least, and some high points, when I grasp some new insight, some new fragment of truth.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Dear Fonzie,
Please answer my question in post #1356. I am really curious.
What do you think of other religions apart from the notion that all they are apparently false. Do you think that people just made them up? Or maybe there some other gods (or something like angels) perhaps not so almighty as the God?
Thank you.
100%
Pretty cool sight. First post.
"I have at least some empirical evidence for my position, you just have your feelings, you are the one basing your position on delusion."
Is your position void of feeling? Have you discovered a "magic pill" that allows you identify chemical properties and separate feeling from Truth (why the capital?)? It's intellectually deceptive to "choose a road" and then distinguish (falsely) that is makes you either happy/unhappy. None of the implications of your "system" are indistinguishable from the implications of a theist; at least as you present them. You need to do some more work on the impact calculus.
And how do you "box" what you are replying to on this site?
"So we'll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God's creation of Eden. Eleven inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. Noah's ark is a problem." River
No, but I don't use subjective feelings as indicators to the truth of something that is not about feelings themselves.
I use the degree of apparent correspondence with external empirical data as the guide to the likely truth of some proposition about what exists.
Separate 'Truth' from 'feelings"? A category error on your part. The distinction I am making is between things like intuition on the one hand, and conscious reasoning, employing logic and related disciplines, on the other.
I am expressing my considered assessment as to their usefulness in actually identifying some approximation to the Truth about something. Intuition may give us a glimpse of truth, but there is no way to distinguish 'true' intuitions from false ones, intuitively. They need to be checked against empirical reality.
'Truth', the capitalization to emphasise I am referring to the truth about the existence and nature of 'things', as distinct from ideas such as how to organize your life, what we 'should' do in some situation, etc, the sort of things mere Philospophy can address.
Empiricism cannot 'prove' anything of course, but it does provide a rigorous process to refine probabilities as to what is 'true'.
I realize the imperfections of our senses in allowing us to grasp the true nature of even stuff we can see and touch, but at least they have some sort of connection to the world beyond our internal experience, which itself has little or no connection with external reality (assuming you aren't into psychic abilities).
'Feelings' are our subjective, 'gut' feelings about things, our intuitions, as distinct from the results of our reasoning processes, involving the application of logic to factual memories. We can never eliminate subjective bias from our reasoning, which can slip in with every word which has fuzzy edges. So I acknowledge there is no way to gain 100% certainty of Truth empirically, but there is negligible justifiable confidence derivable from purely intuitive judgements, where feelings of total certainty can accompany what later are shown to be the wildest illusions. That is where it would require the "magic chemical" to distinguish between 'true' feelings/intuitions and 'false ones.
If you are referring to assessment of 'right' and 'wrong', our feelings about what is 'right' can only meaningfully be based on what 'makes us happy/unhappy', which is one of the few things that our internal feelings clearly work for.
Trying to justify what is 'good' or 'evil' based on extraneous ideas such as what are imagined to be the edicts of an imagined, hypothetical being is foolish and irrelevant, especially since we can never have any certainty about such things, whereas we can directly know what makes us happy or unhappy, and by extension make reasonable assumptions about what causes positive feelings or suffering to others, which is how we can make reasonable judgements about what we 'should' do to ensure a 'good' society, one that most people would prefer to live in.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
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Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Speak for yourself, I feel all "nice inside" without religion or supernatural carp in general. It's all in perspective.
God gives them the answers to all their questions, which leaves what? Perhaps a mode of thought implying the human condition is worthless and pointless save for the praising of an almighty.
The rich man who has nothing left for want is a poor man in spirit.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Dear 100%,
Jesus said, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" - Jesus is the Word made Flesh. If you have questions about what Jesus meant in what He said you can look at His Life and Death for commentary.
As far as your post #1356 God's Spirit through the writer of Hebrews says He revealed Himself in many ways but in these last days through the ultimate: His Son. There's a parable in Mark 12 about the owner of a vineyard sending servants to wicked tenants of the vineyard that illustrates this. In Christ God sends His very Heart and Soul to offer man His unmistakable Grace (undeserved favor) and Mercy. The Power that raised Jesus from the dead is at work in His people, the church, living stones being built into a living temple, Christ the Chief Cornerstone and Chief Capstone. The Stone the builders rejected has become the Head of the Corner.
Jesus has enabled God to be intimately revealed to His people through the gift of the Holy Spirit, which each renewed man is sealed with. Just as no one knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit within the man no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God both takes the thoughts of God and reveals them to the man who has the Spirit and also intercedes to God on behalf of man. So, yes, Jesus has enabled God to be more known through the Holy Spirit which Jesus promised and sent.
In Christ the debt, sin, enmity, which was between God and man is washed away in the blood of the Lamb and God draws us near. He writes His Law on our hearts this time (after the last Pentecost) instead of stone tablets (in the first Pentecost). We are able to Know God - He, His Son, and His Holy Spirit dwell within us. "Know you not that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit...&etc)
In the atoning death of Jesus we see unmistakable love - God and Christ for man, even enemies. So the Gospel, formerly a mystery, jewels hidden throughout the Old Testament even from the promise to Adam and Eve - the mystery is now revealed in Christ's atoning death. So the curtain between us and our access to God has been torn by God through Christ wide open. We are all priests in Christ able to go direct to God. We are all saints. We are all clean in the blood of Christ not through our own doing but His. We are clothed not in our own righteousness which is filthy rags, but we are clothed in God's Righteousness - Christ, the Lamb of God, slain by God for our forgiveness. God wants all men to come to Him in Christ - to the glory of His Son. God wants all men to come to the Great Wedding of His Son and His bride, the church. You can't get in without the garment given - God's Righteousness. We are clothed with Christ.
As to your question about "other religions" my opinion is there are false spirits (spoken of in Scripture) and these false religions are a "package deal" - not merely the product of men, but false religions supported by evil spirits. As far as telling the difference - with some it seems obvious (like a cardboard cow versus real). With others it's a little harder (plastic or silk flowers for example). The bees know the difference and honest observation will serve one well. I have sorted several false things out even in false representations of Christianity. I am looking for more. As a Christian fighting is the norm - not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers and rulers of this present darkness. I don't aim to go out without all my armor. It will be a fight to death; however in complete peace and joy in Christ. I don't plan to scabbard the sword until then.
You know, you sound like a huge nerd. Going to take your armor and sword and fight the powers of darkness..well isn't that special.
Dungeons and dragons with a religious twist.
And whats this about your boy jesus getting married.
The clothes of our own righteousness being dirty rags is another way of saying man and his accomplishements in general are pathetic. Glad you are so optimistic about yourself and everyone else.
You give more reason to not believe in this deity, hindering your own cause. You make it sound even more dreary and depressing. I guess thats why they have rock concerts and stuff in church these days though.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin