It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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Offline I believe in his last line he was inferring that I am trying to be popular or something, which is not the case. I try to make people think, religion is a one way street that goes round and round and does not allow for free thought.
Nothing short of heavy psychotropic drug use will alter this one's mind enough to make him think for himself, he is insane and should be left alone to wallow in his own self loathing. I feel bad for him but theres nothing anyone can do, meanwhile I'm gonna play some apb and sip on this starbucks frap lol.
Have fun posting with this one, his wall of faith is too thick for my common sense to breach or scale.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
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Offline I believe in his last line he was inferring that I am trying to be popular or something, which is not the case.
I know. I read the first thread you participated in. He obviously hasn't.
Nothing short of heavy psychotropic drug use will alter this one's mind enough to make him think for himself,
He's already taking one. That's why I keep telling him to take a bloodtest. He's taking lithium like it's candy.
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Offline Koopa,
I'm planning on sticking to Jesus. It's not just a matter of reading about Him with me or hearing about Him. I am experiencing Him and the power of His Resurrection is at work in me.
And yet, without something external to verify that experience, how are you so certain that it is not merely the product of your own mind, built on ideas you've absorbed over years of exposure?
It's eternal "work security" because He is so far above us - yet he descended to depths we can't comprehend.
This idea of referring to things as being "beyond human comprehension" is a common thread among theists. Thing is, if God is so incomprehensible, how can you claim the knowledge you do? How are you certain that you are not wrong about something you yourself claim it is impossible for a human to understand? Have you ever even considered that you might be wrong? If so, what convinced you otherwise? If not, why not? Why the certainty in ideas beyond your understanding? And especially: Why exactly should anyone else take this at face value?
I don't have to look for Him though - He lives in me.You are participating in a group phenomenon that hates the gospel of Jesus Christ and lashes out at the God of all the universe Who is unknown to the participants. It is the current of this forum's polluted river which may gather in force but only flows down to the abyss and can't purify itself. God in Christ can rescue those caught in the stream before they get to the falls in the barrel. The foolishness of God is all it takes to do this - far wiser than the wisdom of men you indicate.
Hate the Gospel? Nope. There's some good stuff in there, as morality fables go. My atheism is not derived from a rebellion against Christianity, but from intellectual honesty; I just realized after a while that if I applied the standards of evidence and reason I do to everything else
to my religious beliefs, they didn't hold up, so I discarded them. Why would I lash out at a God I didn't believe in? Do you expect that atheists like to knock down imaginary walls out of destructiveness as well?
And now all this about wisdom and foolishness of God. If, as you claim, he is unknown, then where exactly are you getting all that? What makes you so special that you get to know?
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Offline Fonzie wrote:And yet, without something external to verify that experience, how are you so certain that it is not merely the product of your own mind, built on ideas you've absorbed over years of exposure?Koopa,
I'm planning on sticking to Jesus. It's not just a matter of reading about Him with me or hearing about Him. I am experiencing Him and the power of His Resurrection is at work in me.
Fonzie wrote:This idea of referring to things as being "beyond human comprehension" is a common thread among theists. Thing is, if God is so incomprehensible, how can you claim the knowledge you do? How are you certain that you are not wrong about something you yourself claim it is impossible for a human to understand? Have you ever even considered that you might be wrong? If so, what convinced you otherwise? If not, why not? Why the certainty in ideas beyond your understanding? And especially: Why exactly should anyone else take this at face value?It's eternal "work security" because He is so far above us - yet he descended to depths we can't comprehend.Fonzie wrote:Hate the Gospel? Nope. There's some good stuff in there, as morality fables go. My atheism is not derived from a rebellion against Christianity, but from intellectual honesty; I just realized after a while that if I applied the standards of evidence and reason I do to everything else to my religious beliefs, they didn't hold up, so I discarded them. Why would I lash out at a God I didn't believe in? Do you expect that atheists like to knock down imaginary walls out of destructiveness as well? And now all this about wisdom and foolishness of God. If, as you claim, he is unknown, then where exactly are you getting all that? What makes you so special that you get to know?I don't have to look for Him though - He lives in me.You are participating in a group phenomenon that hates the gospel of Jesus Christ and lashes out at the God of all the universe Who is unknown to the participants. It is the current of this forum's polluted river which may gather in force but only flows down to the abyss and can't purify itself. God in Christ can rescue those caught in the stream before they get to the falls in the barrel. The foolishness of God is all it takes to do this - far wiser than the wisdom of men you indicate.
Sirrah,
The verification is both external and internal. The confidence question is something a person has to search and know himself. I've searched it out and as far as I'm concerned I know the gospel is true. I've not just read about it - I've experienced it. I've read Jesus saying, "I am the Door" - but I've also gone through the Door. Plus, there is the "staying power" - the fact that it is all true and real grows stronger and clearer every day.
As far as God being "beyond comprehension" - that's a good subject to discuss. When Jesus was physically on earth He didn't try to make things complicated - actually quite the opposite. He made simple yet deep statements. You can understand them easy on the surface but you can't see the depth of them fully. As far as God being incomprehensible - God is above us. His thoughts are not our thoughts. He is God - and the fact that God is above us (He created us) is why we call Him God. Yet He has told us what we need to know and the gospel is so simple as to be called, "the foolishness of God" (which is wiser than the wisdom of men).
Yet, I know God just like a little kid knows who his father is. The little kid doesn't know all about his father, but he knows dad.
Actually ever since the gospel "clicked" - the lights came on and the Scriptures all made sense with respect to Jesus and the gospel - no I have honestly never considered that I am wrong in my confidence that it's all true. I have considered that I might not understand something right, but never that the Scripture is wrong or the God Who wrote it or the LORD Who fulfilled it.
As far as me being special getting to know God - I do consider it special. Those "called" are called "the elect" - those God has chosen to call. Yet if you seek Him you will find Him. There won't be anybody in the end who can say otherwise. Thanks for your thought out answer and discussion. You set a good example for other atheists here who obviously need one.
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Offline Koopa,Sirrah,
The verification is both external and internal. The confidence question is something a person has to search and know himself. I've searched it out and as far as I'm concerned I know the gospel is true. I've not just read about it - I've experienced it. I've read Jesus saying, "I am the Door" - but I've also gone through the Door. Plus, there is the "staying power" - the fact that it is all true and real grows stronger and clearer every day.
You are, once again, talking about nothing else but your own feelings, which verifies nothing more than that, so his question still stands.
As far as God being "beyond comprehension" - that's a good subject to discuss. When Jesus was physically on earth He didn't try to make things complicated - actually quite the opposite. He made simple yet deep statements. You can understand them easy on the surface but you can't see the depth of them fully. As far as God being incomprehensible - God is above us. His thoughts are not our thoughts. He is God - and the fact that God is above us (He created us) is why we call Him God. Yet He has told us what we need to know and the gospel is so simple as to be called, "the foolishness of God" (which is wiser than the wisdom of men). Yet, I know God just like a little kid knows who his father is. The little kid doesn't know all about his father, but he knows dad.
One circular argument after another.
Actually ever since the gospel "clicked" - the lights came on and the Scriptures all made sense with respect to Jesus and the gospel - no I have honestly never considered that I am wrong in my confidence that it's all true. I have considered that I might not understand something right, but never that the Scripture is wrong or the God Who wrote it or the LORD Who fulfilled it.
And yet all you have to go on is your own interpretation, which could be understanding it all wrong, by your own admission. Case closed.
As far as me being special getting to know God - I do consider it special. Those "called" are called "the elect" - those God has chosen to call.
Yeah, humility is always the first thing to go.
Yet if you seek Him you will find Him. There won't be anybody in the end who can say otherwise.
Once again, I refer you to the hunderds of posts made by ex-christians in your threads. I refer in vain, I know, but someone has to keep reminding you of what people have already posted, since you obviously couldn't care less. Case in point coming right up...
Thanks for your thought out answer and discussion. You set a good example for other atheists here who obviously need one.
..and here we have it. You seem to have forgotten how many times you've used this line in your threads as well. If you ever mean anything you post here, then practically all atheists here can count on your gratitude for answering your questions. Which make your regular claims of never having your questions answered a very strange and dishonest one.
Also, for future reference, you might want to skip the condescension. You're not talking to people you can emotionally blackmail into agreeing with you. Try to remember that, at least.
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Offline Then again, Anonymouse, Fonzie considers himself one of the "elect".
I'm not sure of the sense he's using it but I suspect it is the Calvinist sense. These are the ones who believe that they accepted God because he had called them to do it before they were born. They also believe that they can't lose this election no matter what they choose to do.
Not saying that he is a Calvinist but it most fits his "I can be an asshole and a Christian" style.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline Then again, Anonymouse, Fonzie considers himself one of the "elect".
I'm not sure of the sense he's using it but I suspect it is the Calvinist sense. These are the ones who believe that they accepted God because he had called them to do it before they were born. They also believe that they can't lose this election no matter what they choose to do.
Not saying that he is a Calvinist but it most fits his "I can be an asshole and a Christian" style.
We have some Calvinists here, but they're all up north. Never met one before.
So basically, they can do whatever they like, no matter what, and god's okay with it ?
That would explain the shameless lying, I guess.
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Offline Then again, Anonymouse, Fonzie considers himself one of the "elect".
I'm not sure of the sense he's using it but I suspect it is the Calvinist sense. These are the ones who believe that they accepted God because he had called them to do it before they were born. They also believe that they can't lose this election no matter what they choose to do.
Not saying that he is a Calvinist but it most fits his "I can be an asshole and a Christian" style.
Jcgadfly,
You have a false impression of "the elect", thinking one cannot "shipwreck" their faith - why would there be all these warnings to keep the elect from that fate?
As for your other false impression, that's a common one too: "shall we sin that grace may abound"? You are adding weight to the argument that you never really experienced walking with God in faith in Christ.
But it's not just the faith you have in false impressions you should look at but the faith you have in yourself. Also the negativity of your caddy you bring to the game supports that self - illusion.
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Offline jcgadfly wrote:Then again, Anonymouse, Fonzie considers himself one of the "elect".
I'm not sure of the sense he's using it but I suspect it is the Calvinist sense. These are the ones who believe that they accepted God because he had called them to do it before they were born. They also believe that they can't lose this election no matter what they choose to do.
Not saying that he is a Calvinist but it most fits his "I can be an asshole and a Christian" style.
Jcgadfly,
You have a false impression of "the elect", thinking one cannot "shipwreck" their faith - why would there be all these warnings to keep the elect from that fate?
As for your other false impression, that's a common one too: "shall we sin that grace may abound"? You are adding weight to the argument that you never really experienced walking with God in faith in Christ.
But it's not just the faith you have in false impressions you should look at but the faith you have in yourself. Also the negativity of your caddy you bring to the game supports that self - illusion.
You do realize that Paul wrote that after he wrote "You are not under law but under grace" and "where there is no law there is no transgression". Was Paul mistaken in Romans 4 or in Romans 6?
While we're here - why are we discussing Paul's writings when the basis of your religion is supposedly Jesus of Nazareth? Perhaps your Christianity is not as Christ centered as you might think.
No negativity here. I'm positive you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to your religion or your pharmacological adventures. That's why you ignore everyone who asks questions that disturb you.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline Jcgadfly,
You have a false impression of "the elect", thinking one cannot "shipwreck" their faith - why would there be all these warnings to keep the elect from that fate?
Nope, his impression is quite correct. I asked around, and a few Dutch cousins of mine identify themselves as calvinists, and they do indeed believe exactly what he described.
Go figure, eh ?
As for your other false impression, that's a common one too: "shall we sin that grace may abound"?
No, that one's correct too. I have to admit, I was a bit shocked when they explained it to me.
So you're saying you're not part of that section of christianity ? Well, if you actually read what he posted (not your strong point, I know) you'd see he never said you were.
But then, if you actually read what he wrote, you wouldn't be able to accuse him of having "false impressions".
You are adding weight to the argument that you never really experienced walking with God in faith in Christ.
Uhm..no, that argument would be weightless to the point of non-existence. Again, to know that you would have to have read JC's previous posts on the subject.
And who wants to do that ?
Certainly not you.
But it's not just the faith you have in false impressions you should look at but the faith you have in yourself. Also the negativity of your caddy you bring to the game supports that self - illusion.
But since there were no "false impressions" (He was quite correct about the calvinists, to my own surprise), these comments of yours are just self-righteous nonsense.
Again, for future reference, try reading what people actually post.
(You might notice some unanswered questions that way)
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Offline Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly wrote:Then again, Anonymouse, Fonzie considers himself one of the "elect".
I'm not sure of the sense he's using it but I suspect it is the Calvinist sense. These are the ones who believe that they accepted God because he had called them to do it before they were born. They also believe that they can't lose this election no matter what they choose to do.
Not saying that he is a Calvinist but it most fits his "I can be an asshole and a Christian" style.
Jcgadfly,
You have a false impression of "the elect", thinking one cannot "shipwreck" their faith - why would there be all these warnings to keep the elect from that fate?
As for your other false impression, that's a common one too: "shall we sin that grace may abound"? You are adding weight to the argument that you never really experienced walking with God in faith in Christ.
But it's not just the faith you have in false impressions you should look at but the faith you have in yourself. Also the negativity of your caddy you bring to the game supports that self - illusion.
You do realize that Paul wrote that after he wrote "You are not under law but under grace" and "where there is no law there is no transgression". Was Paul mistaken in Romans 4 or in Romans 6?
While we're here - why are we discussing Paul's writings when the basis of your religion is supposedly Jesus of Nazareth? Perhaps your Christianity is not as Christ centered as you might think.
No negativity here. I'm positive you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to your religion or your pharmacological adventures. That's why you ignore everyone who asks questions that disturb you.
Jcgadfly,
The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God speaking through Paul isn't and wasn't mistaken at all, ever, never was, never will be, through Paul or through all the other writers of the Old and New Testament. You, Jcgadfly, (and your caddy) are mistaken, and are surely destined for the "so sure but so wrong Hall of Fame".
You refuse to "Come in to the ark" of safety, and as a consequence there is no place to start to collect your far flung misunderstanding of spiritual things. I think you have been sent a "strong delusion" and you view "falling headlong" as "FLIGHT". It all goes back to your rejection of Christ IMO - the raindrop went on the other side of the mountain peak.
You really show your ignorance talking about things you don't believe and obviously don't understand. Yet you think you can successfully throw them up and shoot them down like shooting skeet. But you throwing up empty confetti and shoot blanks. Your caddy carries the bag upside down.
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Offline jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly wrote:Then again, Anonymouse, Fonzie considers himself one of the "elect".
I'm not sure of the sense he's using it but I suspect it is the Calvinist sense. These are the ones who believe that they accepted God because he had called them to do it before they were born. They also believe that they can't lose this election no matter what they choose to do.
Not saying that he is a Calvinist but it most fits his "I can be an asshole and a Christian" style.
Jcgadfly,
You have a false impression of "the elect", thinking one cannot "shipwreck" their faith - why would there be all these warnings to keep the elect from that fate?
As for your other false impression, that's a common one too: "shall we sin that grace may abound"? You are adding weight to the argument that you never really experienced walking with God in faith in Christ.
But it's not just the faith you have in false impressions you should look at but the faith you have in yourself. Also the negativity of your caddy you bring to the game supports that self - illusion.
You do realize that Paul wrote that after he wrote "You are not under law but under grace" and "where there is no law there is no transgression". Was Paul mistaken in Romans 4 or in Romans 6?
While we're here - why are we discussing Paul's writings when the basis of your religion is supposedly Jesus of Nazareth? Perhaps your Christianity is not as Christ centered as you might think.
No negativity here. I'm positive you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to your religion or your pharmacological adventures. That's why you ignore everyone who asks questions that disturb you.
Jcgadfly,
The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God speaking through Paul isn't and wasn't mistaken at all, ever, never was, never will be, through Paul or through all the other writers of the Old and New Testament. You, Jcgadfly, (and your caddy) are mistaken, and are surely destined for the "so sure but so wrong Hall of Fame".
You refuse to "Come in to the ark" of safety, and as a consequence there is no place to start to collect your far flung misunderstanding of spiritual things. I think you have been sent a "strong delusion" and you view "falling headlong" as "FLIGHT". It all goes back to your rejection of Christ IMO - the raindrop went on the other side of the mountain peak.
You really show your ignorance talking about things you don't believe and obviously don't understand. Yet you think you can successfully throw them up and shoot them down like shooting skeet. But you throwing up empty confetti and shoot blanks. Your caddy carries the bag upside down.
Yea no one can understand what you "know", that should clue you in.
Who has a caddy and why? Are you playing golf, skeet shooting and having a party with your fantasy?
Your little analogies have suprassed stupid when you can throw out 3 unrelated examples in such a small paragraph.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
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Offline Jcgadfly,
The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God speaking through Paul isn't and wasn't mistaken at all, ever, never was, never will be, through Paul or through all the other writers of the Old and New Testament.
You just made his point for him, and as much as admitted that his "impression" wasn't "false" at all.
Well, that was easy.
You refuse to "Come in to the ark" of safety, and as a consequence there is no place to start to collect your far flung misunderstanding of spiritual things. I think you have been sent a "strong delusion" and you view "falling headlong" as "FLIGHT". It all goes back to your rejection of Christ IMO - the raindrop went on the other side of the mountain peak.You really show your ignorance talking about things you don't believe and obviously don't understand.
You already admitted that your interpretations could simply be mistakes, so why are you now whining about him not jumping aboard your personal little bandwagon ?
You're not upset about his "rejection of christ", you're upset about his rejection of your personal religion.
And since you've just admitted he has a point, well...I guess that explains you getting a bit cranky.
You, Jcgadfly, (and your caddy) are mistaken, and are surely destined for the "so sure but so wrong Hall of Fame".
Yet you think you can successfully throw them up and shoot them down like shooting skeet. But you throwing up empty confetti and shoot blanks. Your caddy carries the bag upside down.
What's with the golf metaphors all of a sudden ? Are you watching that on tv now ?
edit : only just noticed this : What the heck is a "hall of fly-mouse" ?? Dude, are you feeling okay ? Seriously, are you smoking something you shouldn't ?
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Offline jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly wrote:Then again, Anonymouse, Fonzie considers himself one of the "elect".
I'm not sure of the sense he's using it but I suspect it is the Calvinist sense. These are the ones who believe that they accepted God because he had called them to do it before they were born. They also believe that they can't lose this election no matter what they choose to do.
Not saying that he is a Calvinist but it most fits his "I can be an asshole and a Christian" style.
Jcgadfly,
You have a false impression of "the elect", thinking one cannot "shipwreck" their faith - why would there be all these warnings to keep the elect from that fate?
As for your other false impression, that's a common one too: "shall we sin that grace may abound"? You are adding weight to the argument that you never really experienced walking with God in faith in Christ.
But it's not just the faith you have in false impressions you should look at but the faith you have in yourself. Also the negativity of your caddy you bring to the game supports that self - illusion.
You do realize that Paul wrote that after he wrote "You are not under law but under grace" and "where there is no law there is no transgression". Was Paul mistaken in Romans 4 or in Romans 6?
While we're here - why are we discussing Paul's writings when the basis of your religion is supposedly Jesus of Nazareth? Perhaps your Christianity is not as Christ centered as you might think.
No negativity here. I'm positive you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to your religion or your pharmacological adventures. That's why you ignore everyone who asks questions that disturb you.
Jcgadfly,
The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God speaking through Paul isn't and wasn't mistaken at all, ever, never was, never will be, through Paul or through all the other writers of the Old and New Testament. You, Jcgadfly, (and your caddy) are mistaken, and are surely destined for the "so sure but so wrong Hall of Fame".
You refuse to "Come in to the ark" of safety, and as a consequence there is no place to start to collect your far flung misunderstanding of spiritual things. I think you have been sent a "strong delusion" and you view "falling headlong" as "FLIGHT". It all goes back to your rejection of Christ IMO - the raindrop went on the other side of the mountain peak.
You really show your ignorance talking about things you don't believe and obviously don't understand. Yet you think you can successfully throw them up and shoot them down like shooting skeet. But you throwing up empty confetti and shoot blanks. Your caddy carries the bag upside down.
So when Paul was writing about a character that he called "Jesus Christ" that Jesus of Nazareth wouldn't recognize (and would have been offended by), Jesus of Nazareth must have been mistaken - gotcha.
When Paul does a 180 on sin from Romans 4 to Romans 6, I shouldn't pay attention to the contradiction and just pick the passage that makes me feel good - OK.
You're right - I'm not going to come to the ark you built or even the ark you borrowed. My question to you is why are you depending so much on the creation of man that has been given the name of God?
If you believe and understand the Bible, why is it that I and so many others have to teach you what it actually says? If you love the Bible so much, why don't you bother reading it?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline Everything this "god" has made dies or deteriorates over time, there is nothing perfect or eternal in his supposed creation. He has never taken a moment out of his busy schedule to make something or demonstrate himself to anyone in the last 2000 years. Everything in the bible is based on the wants and attitudes of a man, (possibly an asshole even in his own time) with the petty desire to spurn wealth because he is a lazy ass, just like all the other texts in every other religion. Made by lazy wanna be philosophers who hate the rich and well off yet wish to keep women stupid and under their thumbs.
It's so fukin obvious I tire of arguing over it, if someone can't see it that means they do not want to see it. Fantasy land is more fun to a small brain.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
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Offline
Jcgadfly,
The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God speaking through Paul isn't and wasn't mistaken at all, ever, never was, never will be, through Paul or through all the other writers of the Old and New Testament. You, Jcgadfly, (and your caddy) are mistaken, and are surely destined for the "so sure but so wrong Hall of Fame".
I see from the last page or two of dribble Fonzie hasn't given up on his drooling assumptions, adhoms and constant threats. Or his gigantic and unprovable assertions about things like the eternal rightness of the holy spirit - whatever that is. Funny how Fonzie tells us how worthless he is in the sight of god but can scarcely contain the inherent violence of his soul.
The caddy - that's satan, isn't it Fonzie, you low tool. As for the so wrong hall of fame I think we can all guess which threat that is. I'm not sure what you do for a living Fonzie but I think there's a career path for you as a leader in the evangelical church.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Offline Fonzie wrote:
Jcgadfly,
The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God speaking through Paul isn't and wasn't mistaken at all, ever, never was, never will be, through Paul or through all the other writers of the Old and New Testament. You, Jcgadfly, (and your caddy) are mistaken, and are surely destined for the "so sure but so wrong Hall of Fame".
I see from the last page or two of dribble Fonzie hasn't given up on his drooling assumptions, adhoms and constant threats. Or his gigantic and unprovable assertions about things like the eternal rightness of the holy spirit - whatever that is. Funny how Fonzie tells us how worthless he is in the sight of god but can scarcely contain the inherent violence of his soul.
The caddy - that's satan, isn't it Fonzie, you low tool. As for the so wrong hall of fame I think we can all guess which threat that is. I'm not sure what you do for a living Fonzie but I think there's a career path for you as a leader in the evangelical church.
Atheistextremist,
Words to live by now and forever... Not only extreme in atheistisity but extreme in the vacuum offered concerning any fundamental to work in life. True you can't offer what you don't have, or have to see with what you don't have, but have it you can.
There was surely a time when the ark job got to be a grind for Noah, but it wasn't when the rain started falling. He was in the minority going in - but in the majority coming out. What you rain down only lifts the ark I'm on higher.
In my original post I ask if you atheists have anything better to offer. Look at your answer above. Is this what you have to live by? I could only characterize it as malice. You expect me to believe that condition of mind works: on the job/ in the home and family/ at little league games with your son/ with your wife/ in traffic? The parade here on RRSQ has been a stark exhibit of floats that look more fierce than the USSR showing off their artillery, tanks and missiles. Fortunately neither are even a cap gun against God when it comes to fighting, but as for living a happy life here on earth - give me a break.
But I will admit - you are an extreme example, so fitly named.
Here's what I offer: The God Who made the heavens and the earth can be trusted - He is on top of His game. He entrusted the earth with man, gave man the freedom to blow it (which he did). Mankind fell, and this is the climate we have been born into. But God sent His Son to rescue all who would believe in Him. God did that by paying the debt man has run up with His only begotten Son's Life and Death of Death, even the lowest death on a cross. He rose from the dead in three days with a new glorious body that is a fitting companion for His eternal Spirit. God has given all Power and Authority into His hands. He sits at the right hand of the throne of God, interceding for us, and also lives in us. We can talk to Him 24/7 - He hears and answers. He disciplines us. In Christ and in our faith in Christ we are blameless before God, if we continue to walk in the light. We have the Written Word which was written as His Spirit directed men to write. We who are in Christ have the best fellowship the world has or has ever had to offer - that's what's happening now. And we have eternity, resurrection and a new heaven and new earth before us. Life in Christ is great. As the body journeys down toward death the spirit soars in Christ. We are experiencing the friendship of God, and fellowship with the very God Who spoke everything into existence. We are at the rehearsal dinner and heading for the wedding!
Now I'm waiting for any atheist to cart out anything that even begins to compare with all this - with bated breath.
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Offline Atheistextremist wrote:Fonzie wrote:
Jcgadfly,
The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God speaking through Paul isn't and wasn't mistaken at all, ever, never was, never will be, through Paul or through all the other writers of the Old and New Testament. You, Jcgadfly, (and your caddy) are mistaken, and are surely destined for the "so sure but so wrong Hall of Fame".
I see from the last page or two of dribble Fonzie hasn't given up on his drooling assumptions, adhoms and constant threats. Or his gigantic and unprovable assertions about things like the eternal rightness of the holy spirit - whatever that is. Funny how Fonzie tells us how worthless he is in the sight of god but can scarcely contain the inherent violence of his soul.
The caddy - that's satan, isn't it Fonzie, you low tool. As for the so wrong hall of fame I think we can all guess which threat that is. I'm not sure what you do for a living Fonzie but I think there's a career path for you as a leader in the evangelical church.
Atheistextremist,
Words to live by now and forever... Not only extreme in atheistisity but extreme in the vacuum offered concerning any fundamental to work in life. True you can't offer what you don't have, or have to see with what you don't have, but have it you can.
There was surely a time when the ark job got to be a grind for Noah, but it wasn't when the rain started falling. He was in the minority going in - but in the majority coming out. What you rain down only lifts the ark I'm on higher.
In my original post I ask if you atheists have anything better to offer. Look at your answer above. Is this what you have to live by? I could only characterize it as malice. You expect me to believe that condition of mind works: on the job/ in the home and family/ at little league games with your son/ with your wife/ in traffic? The parade here on RRSQ has been a stark exhibit of floats that look more fierce than the USSR showing off their artillery, tanks and missiles. Fortunately neither are even a cap gun against God when it comes to fighting, but as for living a happy life here on earth - give me a break.
But I will admit - you are an extreme example, so fitly named.
Here's what I offer: The God Who made the heavens and the earth can be trusted - He is on top of His game. He entrusted the earth with man, gave man the freedom to blow it (which he did). Mankind fell, and this is the climate we have been born into. But God sent His Son to rescue all who would believe in Him. God did that by paying the debt man has run up with His only begotten Son's Life and Death of Death, even the lowest death on a cross. He rose from the dead in three days with a new glorious body that is a fitting companion for His eternal Spirit. God has given all Power and Authority into His hands. He sits at the right hand of the throne of God, interceding for us, and also lives in us. We can talk to Him 24/7 - He hears and answers. He disciplines us. In Christ and in our faith in Christ we are blameless before God, if we continue to walk in the light. We have the Written Word which was written as His Spirit directed men to write. We who are in Christ have the best fellowship the world has or has ever had to offer - that's what's happening now. And we have eternity, resurrection and a new heaven and new earth before us. Life in Christ is great. As the body journeys down toward death the spirit soars in Christ. We are experiencing the friendship of God, and fellowship with the very God Who spoke everything into existence. We are at the rehearsal dinner and heading for the wedding!
Now I'm waiting for any atheist to cart out anything that even begins to compare with all this - with bated breath.
The unicorn dance and the orgy of love and fun await any atheist on death. Hows that compare? I'm not going into any great detail on a fantasy because the more long winded you get the more questionable you become.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
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Offline Atheistextremist,
Words to live by now and forever... Not only extreme in atheistisity but extreme in the vacuum offered concerning any fundamental to work in life. True you can't offer what you don't have, or have to see with what you don't have, but have it you can.
There was surely a time when the ark job got to be a grind for Noah, but it wasn't when the rain started falling. He was in the minority going in - but in the majority coming out. What you rain down only lifts the ark I'm on higher.
In my original post I ask if you atheists have anything better to offer. Look at your answer above. Is this what you have to live by? I could only characterize it as malice. You expect me to believe that condition of mind works: on the job/ in the home and family/ at little league games with your son/ with your wife/ in traffic? The parade here on RRSQ has been a stark exhibit of floats that look more fierce than the USSR showing off their artillery, tanks and missiles. Fortunately neither are even a cap gun against God when it comes to fighting, but as for living a happy life here on earth - give me a break.
But I will admit - you are an extreme example, so fitly named.
You just proved his point about your neverending adhoms.
Here's what I offer:
We heard you the first time. You have yet to start listening to us.
You will now demonstrate that you have no intention of ever doing so :
Now I'm waiting for any atheist to cart out anything that even begins to compare with all this - with bated breath.
With bated breath and closed eyes, it seems.
You have yet to respond to JC (who just proved your knowledge of the bible leaves a lot to be desired) , and Bob, to name but a few people from the last two pages.
To name everyone who's posts you've ignored would simply take too long.
Btw, this last claim of yours is in direct contradiction with several others you made, where you thank posters for their carefully thought out answers and contributions.
Is it really too much to ask that you remember your own posts ?
Then how about going back and reading them ? Is that too much to ask too ?
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Offline We all know why he ignores so many posts and questions, we should expect it from his ilk.
At this point and for some time it has been fun watching him rattle his cage.
We say god doesn't exist and he says we don't exist.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
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Offline In my original post I ask if you atheists have anything better to offer.
Atheism isn't a creed or belief structure. We have in common only a lack of faith in any deity. In asking this question, understand that the answers you get will vary widely, and none of us speaks for any other. So here's what I have to say.
[snip]
Now I'm waiting for any atheist to cart out anything that even begins to compare with all this - with bated breath.
Forgive me for not quoting you in full here, but I hate to waste space. I'm not going to do a blow-by-blow, because to my mind, asking for a worldview that "even begins to compare to [your religious convictions]" is a bit like asking for a historical account that compares with the Odyssey. Yes, one could run a comparison, and even debate their relative merits, but in doing so, one misses a very important point. That is, one is true, or at least an effort at the truth grounded in observation, research, and a little speculation, and the other is almost certainly, to all available evidence, mostly fiction perhaps based a bit in reality, so to compare them on even ground is a bit disingenuous.
That's the fundamental point. The only fundamental point. I disbelieve not because I dislike the implications of your version of things (whether I do or not is irrelevant and varies from point to point; as I've said, the Gospels had some nice stuff), but because hearsay and anecdotes about personal spiritual experiences do not a compelling case for god make. So I reject that premise and all that follows from it.
In return, I offer you the observable universe. We've never found any magic super-beings to safeguard us and tell us what to do; humanity has no "daddy". We're all we've got and it comes down to us to make the best of that. Humans aren't the center of the universe, but we're amazingly complex chemical machines, and the only known phenomenon in the universe that is self aware. That makes us pretty important, as the only witnesses to this reality we inhabit. At least from where I stand, and the best we can do is learn as much about it as we can and better ourselves and aid one another with that knowledge. Our successes or failures in that regard are not measured by any cosmic karma meter but are reflected in the effects they have on the people they impact.
Is that better? It leaves a lot unanswered, to be sure. It leaves a lot in the hands of each individual, which can be daunting. But I say it's better, if it's better to say "I don't know, let's try and figure it out together" than to claim to know when you don't and can't.
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Offline
Atheistextremist,
Words to live by now and forever... Not only extreme in atheistisity but extreme in the vacuum offered concerning any fundamental to work in life. True you can't offer what you don't have, or have to see with what you don't have, but have it you can.
in 'atheistisity' than anyone else here. Forum rules are no threats. That applies to you, too, Malachi.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Offline Fonzie wrote:Atheism isn't a creed or belief structure. We have in common only a lack of faith in any deity. In asking this question, understand that the answers you get will vary widely, and none of us speaks for any other. So here's what I have to say.In my original post I ask if you atheists have anything better to offer.Fonzie wrote:Forgive me for not quoting you in full here, but I hate to waste space. I'm not going to do a blow-by-blow, because to my mind, asking for a worldview that "even begins to compare to [your religious convictions]" is a bit like asking for a historical account that compares with the Odyssey. Yes, one could run a comparison, and even debate their relative merits, but in doing so, one misses a very important point. That is, one is true, or at least an effort at the truth grounded in observation, research, and a little speculation, and the other is almost certainly, to all available evidence, mostly fiction perhaps based a bit in reality, so to compare them on even ground is a bit disingenuous. That's the fundamental point. The only fundamental point. I disbelieve not because I dislike the implications of your version of things (whether I do or not is irrelevant and varies from point to point; as I've said, the Gospels had some nice stuff), but because hearsay and anecdotes about personal spiritual experiences do not a compelling case for god make. So I reject that premise and all that follows from it. In return, I offer you the observable universe. We've never found any magic super-beings to safeguard us and tell us what to do; humanity has no "daddy". We're all we've got and it comes down to us to make the best of that. Humans aren't the center of the universe, but we're amazingly complex chemical machines, and the only known phenomenon in the universe that is self aware. That makes us pretty important, as the only witnesses to this reality we inhabit. At least from where I stand, and the best we can do is learn as much about it as we can and better ourselves and aid one another with that knowledge. Our successes or failures in that regard are not measured by any cosmic karma meter but are reflected in the effects they have on the people they impact. Is that better? It leaves a lot unanswered, to be sure. It leaves a lot in the hands of each individual, which can be daunting. But I say it's better, if it's better to say "I don't know, let's try and figure it out together" than to claim to know when you don't and can't.[snip] Now I'm waiting for any atheist to cart out anything that even begins to compare with all this - with bated breath.
Sirrah,
I walked at 5 this morning and observed a little of this universe, birds without cages, singing, washing, landing, building and caring for young, feeding, procreating. The greatest fantasy is to not believe God has designed all this. You would have to work at it to keep belief pushed back - but I see a lot of work being done here, and a lot of success avoiding the obvious God - Designer, Physicist, Scientist, Architect, Aerodynamics Engineer, Landscaper, Solar Supplier and Collector.....& etc, ad infinitum. You have observed this as a "complex chemical machine" yet "self aware"? Plus, other "complex chemical machines" are doing their thing like a bunch of jazz musicians who have three chords and an hour course thinking they are making music. I don't observe it as music but rather chaos. So our different roads are essentially on different planets from A to Z. And we are on opposite sides of the fantasy question. I say you are in fantasy world, and you call it reality. Your reality is terminal as you definitely do know - therefore temporary. You might think more about that "self awareness" thing - maybe it could be developed into something more.
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Offline Your reality is terminal as you definitely do know - therefore temporary. You might think more about that "self awareness" thing - maybe it could be developed into something more.
Like a gun.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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BobSpence1,
Bob, happy Father's Day (and all).
I guess I've not made it clear about the exception you would be if you - one "wise in this world" - happened to be a believer in the gospel. "For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth; but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, Bod chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong, God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God." Thus - if you, being "wise in this world" were a believer you would be a welcome exception. There's not many of those according to Scripture. There are a few in scripture - Centurion, Doctor, Paul, etc.
We are on opposite sides of this issue as you know. You don't believe in Jesus and the gospel - I do. I believe you are deceived - you think I am. You don't think what I believe in has value or is going anywhere - I think Who and what I believe in is the prize, the treasure, the lost coin, the best pearl. I don't think what you believe in is going anywhere. So we are mirror reflections.
I think we are also on both sides in the tug of war - of wanting each other to see what we see and have what we have. But I have no interest in your pursuit of the wonders of science and creation other than to marvel and give glory to God. And I don't think you have any interest in the wonders of Scripture and the manna from heaven.
I'm at peace with not being able to persuade you that Jesus is LORD, Son of God, Lamb of God, that His blood brought a far different cry to heaven (Father forgive them they don't know what they do) than the blood of Abel (a cry for vengeance) - the blood of the curse, the blood shed by a man with his own religion, Cain, who probably didn't realize where that road went or what he was capable of the day before he killed his brother, not a happy man but a man not willing to give his own religion up and accept God's. You have your own religion and I say this respectfully - you can have it as far as I'm concerned. I am fulfilled totally with the living Christ and His Spirit living within me.
We will know all about who is right about this soon enough - too soon I'm afraid for many to realize they have been tricked by the trickster.
But Christ and His gospel works great for me - has, is, and will. And I pray you will reconsider, because it's true - Jesus is LORD.
One who believes in a god which cannot be detected by a single nature granted sense has been deceived by men, and is now attempting to reciprocate in kind.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
God likes Dimmu Burgers.
robj101,
Are you aware of your conscience? Do you sense when you go against your conscience? Isn't that a spiritual sense?
No, thats just me knowing better.
You don't find it amazing that nothing you believe in can be touched, seen, smelled or heard. Not your god, your jesus, your soul, your spirituality, none of it. It's all make believe. We are conciously aware of things and more evolved than say a dog, as far as our brain goes. Knowing you will die is the biggest difference, it's scary so the mind is susceptible to irrationality as far as death is concerned. Take an "afterlife" out of your religion and what is the point?
You fear death.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Then why do you keep trying ? You've been at it for years.
No, he's an atheist. I think we've explained that more than once. To no avail, it seems.
Uh-oh, here come the insults...
If it's science you're talking about, then that's an especially hypocritical thing to say, since you're "having it" as well.
Then why did you lie ?
"Just wait till you're dead ! Then you'll be sorry !"
No matter how you say it, in essence, it's still nothing but a childish threat. I will ask you, again, to stop doing that.
So you keep saying. And I keep asking, then why did you lie ? And you keep not answering or just throwing the accusation back at me, minus the proof for it. (Still waiting for an apology, btw)
If prayer worked, then you wouldn't need the lithium.
There is nothing intrinsically 'spiritual' about being able to do that.
Even computers can be programmed to analyse their own functioning.
It is called 'introspection', the ability of one process in the brain to monitor the state of another part of the brain.
They are all happening in the same brain, so it is not very difficult.
In computers it is based on 'multi-threading', where more than one sequence of code is being executed at once.
Our brains are more deeply multi-threaded than computers, some 'threads' forming part of consciousness, some doing 'background' processing, like when you try to to remember something which doesn't come to mind until later, when you are thinking of something else, and the answer pops into your consciousness.
Now if our brains could sense the state of something beyond our bodies without invoking some normal sensory mechanism that might be something, but our brains can be affected by electromagnetic fields directly, so some sort of training to respond to some such fields of appropriate strength and frequency is not inconceivable. It would amount to another sensory pathway.
Unless we have some separate evidence that some feeling we have, of sensing or communicating with some external entity, is really conveying some information that we could not possibly know or guess at, there is no way to prove it is not just a form of hallucination or dream or act of imagination. All the feelings described by people like yourself of 'communing' with God or Jesus, and so on, can be triggered on cue by appropriate electrical or magnetic or chemical stimulation of parts of a specific brain region.
The stimulation itself does not convey any information, but it can activate the structures in the brain which encode the ideas which are associated with the various feelings.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
He thinks there is good and evil, right and wrong. Our perception of right and wrong can be attributed to productive and non productive. In general, lying, stealing and killing members of your own species, or even other species is not productive. However under certain environmental circumstances it can seem productive or justifiable to an individual or group of individuals. Of course some people are more swayed by their environment than others. Our "concience" is a survival tool. Without a concience we would not survive, every animal has one to a degree. Imagine our intelligence level coupled with no concience, yea we would have gone extinct long ago, the same goes for every animal with more than simple basic instincts. Reptiles and insects would still rule this planet, imo.
We have simply given name to what is productive and what is not and think so highly of ourselves, it is laughable in the proper (or improper, however you prefer) perspective. It is not a "spiritual" thing, it is a natural thing.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
robj101,
That's a large part of the definition of faith - "the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen". So you're right; I believe in a God Whom I can't see.
As far as being or not being afraid of death - it's not something you get much practice on and I can't say putting my armor on what I would do as if taking it off; however, there are a lot of examples of Christians dying bravely, and I know the examples are not limited to Christians. But I don't think I'm concerned about dying; in fact, I'm living with that fact in mind.
As for the question, "take the afterlife out of your religion and what is the point?" - I know through my faith in the unseen that my salvation and deliverance has already happened and I'm already enjoying the presence of God now. I have already allegorically left Egypt in repentance, gone through the Red Sea of baptism, and made it through the wilderness of sorting things out. I'm following the Commander, walking by faith, boots on the ground taking the promised land - spiritually speaking. I have been delivered from love of sin and guilt of sin, also bondage to the fear of death and the second death. I have been lifted to a level place, my security in the Christ I can't see yet have faith in as you say. I am at peace with myself and my conscience from what I see through faith that happened at the cross and at peace with God thanks to the saving power of the blood of Christ. This salvation is not probation, it has already happened because it happened through Christ's work on the cross, a gift, not my work. I'm maintaining my faith on the ship - the Ship of Zion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dE6K6qK7Jc
Your bag must have a hole in it, you seem to be dribbling feces about.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
robj101,
I thought I might come back and hear your view of faith and death and the afterlife - and what motivates you now to try to be of value to your fellow man - how your principle of "knowing better" enables you to answer an inquiry with clarity and understanding. I thought you might open a door to what it is that makes you happy and sustains you, how things you can "touch" and your evolving to be more than a dog teach you to be kind and act accordingly.
Instead nothing is brought to the discussion except an anger that focuses the attack and anything at hand is thrown mob style. My discernment of this forum is that the uniting force is anger and nihilistic attack of God and Christ and nothing beyond that. There is a fury of activity in the demolition though there is no plan for rebuilding. There is dreaming and theory but I haven't seen any sign of a good product from those who think they have a plan. But yes they have another lie that they do, and they have, and they did, and you didn't see it and you're lying and you won't acknowledge it. But the reality is answers like you have come back with robj101. This is your product - not mine. I have laid out a plan that works. It's not my plan. But your response doesn't show much of the evolution you've been blowing about.
The natural order of things is not good enough for you. You fear things that I do not, so continue to bow and scrape to the rhythm of your lie.
edit: your plan, lol. My plan is to enjoy life doing what I like to do and die in the end. Wasting my life living a lie is not part of my "plan". I don't actually have to have a "plan" at all, I can take it day by day. Plans often go awry.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
For that, you would need to read all his posts, not just the one you think you can compose a condescending answer to.
I have just read a couple of posts of his that you ignored completely.
Very interesting.
I'm afraid that's simply not true. This is a statement I can make because I can read, not because I'm an atheist.
Considering the sheer volume of posts and arguments you've completely ignored, the idea that you're somehow familiar with the contents of this forum is completely ridiculous.
For example, I've told you again and again and again, and I'm now telling you again, that you can't attack something that doesn't exist. I'm not sure why I bother.
Again, you cannot demolish something that doesn't exist. Also, since you yourself are living in a world built and maintained by science, what you are saying here quite simply doesn't make a lick of sense.
You are using that "good product" right now. And if you've taken your lithium today, it's actually running through your veins as we speak. Calling this "dreaming and theory" is a very puzzling lie indeed.
I really am very sorry, but it has long been proven that you are a liar. You provided the proof yourself. I have rubbed your nose in it for many pages now, but you just keep ignoring it.
Apparently, when a "christian" ignores something, it does not exist.
What a wonderful magical power to have, I'm sure.
I'm guessing you mean the "reality" where the only posts Rob makes are the ones you reply to ?
Ah yes, what a wonderful magical "reality" that is. Too bad you're the only one who lives there.
Again, his "product" goes beyond anything you deign to notice, your majesty. (Yes, I am mocking you this time. Seriously, what else is there left to do ? You're the most absurd liar I ever met : "Yes" doesn't mean "yes", years and years of post simply disappear from existence because you can't be bothered to read them again,..)
Again, then why would you need to lie ??
That's handy. I guess that absolves you from any responsibility as well.
Actually, for someone who can be bothered to read all of Rob's posts, it's a testament to his patience and kindness that it took so long for him to get a little provocative.
I can only imagine your joy when you spotted the word "feces". Finally something you could respond to ! Never mind anything else he said.
Btw, I see you made him repeat something he already told you. Awesome. Now you can ignore that again !
Anyway, if you're ever ready to respond to the questions and arguments you've ignored to this point, just let me know.
Dealing with those should take only another 1500 posts or so.
I try, though it's akin to pushing a load of reason up a slippery slope.
BobSpence1,
You know Bob you say this brain is "multi-threaded", moreso than computers, the brain is amazing, a terrible thing to waste, blah, blah, on on & on. Then I guess somebody has looked in there and seen some juices, and hey, it "runs on juices!" and, well, it must just be programmed to check itself like a computer (not conscience), we're just walking lap-tops with noses, and conscience???? We'll just call it "introspection" and that should just about take care of it. Yeah, that's about all there is to that. Oh yeah it's programmed to keep you breathing too, wake you up at different times for different things - I guess (yawn), it must be like an alarm on a cell phone or somethin' and yes, record video - must be like a video recorder too! Just name it and forget it, Bob, ah, I'm getting a little bored.....
So it's all very interesting for a while and not miraculous though, in fact it gets familiar and you're on to something else. It's wandering through the universe library with no plan and no purpose, just finding something new for a while and, "yawn", "my computer's getting bored, think I'll go de-fragment and clean my disk". Life is just a wandering through the museum of creation, looking at all the exhibits, eating, ---
Wait, there's a guy who believes that a God Who is greater than any of this stuff created it all and has a purpose for it. How rude! Purpose? Plan? God breathed Book? Something beyond this life, this museum, this library? How unscientific! I guess we can't all be genius'.
You seem rather annoyed to find out that there's a scientific explanation for a conscience.
Tough.
(anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. You'll forget all about it soon enough)
Uhm...Sorry, but it looks like you'll have to re-read some of Bob's earlier posts as well.
Well, you have been rather rude at times, but that had nothing to do with religion, so I'm not quite sure what you mean here.
And we can keep repeating out purposes and plans for as long as we want, you'll keep repeating the question anyway.
And who the heck ever said they were geniuses ?
When we discover alien life, will that mean god made them as well?
When we clone people, will they have "souls"?
When we build real artificial intelligence and apply it in robotics will we be gods?
When we manage to leave this planet and colonize another solar system escaping our dying sun will there be a god?
If science discovers a way to prolong life tenfold or longer will there be a god?
Will people like yourself look like utter idiots in the future?
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Having a god in our universe is like using a high powered rifle as a fly swatter, it's way to much and will ultimately fail.
Scientists can't answer all the questions yet, but does that really suddenly make your religion true? We don't need a god, our universe did a fine job existing on it's own, she's a good girl. In the next century us humans will practically be as good as gods with our technology and whatnot, what will you do then? Go on a wild goose chase looking for him? Nope, not behind this star... TO ANDROMEDA! Or will you just stick to your Jesus toast?
Mild PDD-NOS and severe undifferentiated schizophrenia.
It's people like me that should put the oh so loving Christian god to shame, but don't... These people are crazier than I am.
Koopa,
I'm planning on sticking to Jesus. It's not just a matter of reading about Him with me or hearing about Him. I am experiencing Him and the power of His Resurrection is at work in me. It's an active thing and I am: on a journey (He's walking with me)/ fighting against evil powers and principalities (He's Commander)/ boxing and wrestling (He's Trainer)/ building (He's Architect and Forman)/ eating (He's the Manna)/ drinking (He's the Fountain of the Water of Life). It is my burning desire to know Him and be conformed to His image. It's eternal "work security" because He is so far above us - yet he descended to depths we can't comprehend. I don't have to look for Him though - He lives in me.
You are participating in a group phenomenon that hates the gospel of Jesus Christ and lashes out at the God of all the universe Who is unknown to the participants. It is the current of this forum's polluted river which may gather in force but only flows down to the abyss and can't purify itself. God in Christ can rescue those caught in the stream before they get to the falls in the barrel. The foolishness of God is all it takes to do this - far wiser than the wisdom of men you indicate.
Once again, if any of this is true, then why did you need to lie ?
No, he is presenting you with a few facts and asking you some questions.
If you want to know what he "hates", you might want to try asking him, instead of deciding for him.
As for "unknown to the participants", I refer you to the hundreds of posts made by ex-christians in your threads. Again, they might as well not have bothered.
Since you never venture outside your own thread, and have been happily disagreeing with yourself for a few pages now, I'm not really sure if you're such an expert on the contents of this entire forum, never mind your own posts.
You just plagiarised my fortune cookie. Seriously, I've heard that line with "buddha" instead of "god".
Anyway, if you were really serious about this, you could easily prove it : Stop taking the lithium (obviously, I don't advice this), and try getting by on prayer alone.
It would seem that "the foolishness of god" has let you down, and "the wisdom of men" has saved you.
Fonzie, you are relying on the 'wisdom of man' to determine that you are really talking to Jesus and not just fantasising, IOW you are relying on your own fallible judgement to decide what is true.
Science explicitly recognizes the fallibility of our own intuition, and requires the maximum possible amount of testing and independent cross-checking before deciding how much confidence to place in any idea.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
"WE" are in the group that is participating in what ? That's really good. Im not the one in a fantasy fan boy frat club bub. The foolishness of god, blasphemy!
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
robj101,
That answer isn't thought out - it's just a dodge of the issues. You can get the accolades of this forum with this kind of tap dance but it won't work with God.
A dodge of the issues ?
You have no issues, if anyone says anything competent you ignore it, and if it is something you may refute with an imaginary friend you do so.
You are as pointless and fear driven as your religion.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
The answer has been given, the issue has been dealt with, you've just ignored it again. What else is new ?
Everyone here has dealt with your issues. Again and again and again. It's the constant repetition you demand from us that makes this thread so long.
And btw, accusing Rob of "dodging" ? Here's a short list of some posts of his you dodged so completely, he might as well not have made them : 1379, 1381, 1398, 1400, 1408, 1427, 1464, etc
There's quite a lot more, actually, but like you, I really can't be bothered to check anymore. I mean, what's the point ? You're just going to ignore it all. Again.
This is another strange thing you keep doing : You seem to think this thread is somehow this entire forum. I'm sorry to break it to you, but this forum does not revolve around your thread.
Sorry.
Also, I think you'll find Rob was adressing you. Not "god". Having trouble telling one from the other, are you ?