It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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It's already been explained to you, in detail, with pictures, why this is simply not true.
You ignored it.
Considering the sheer number of posts you've ignored, the many times answers and arguments had to be repeated because you simply ignored them all, the very idea of you "seing" anything "being done here" is quite amusing.
The difference being, of course, that we can offer proof, such as the computer you're typing this on, and the lithium that keeps your mental condition in check.
You, on the other hand, have your feelings.
Or something less, like your dishonesty.
So close, fonzie, so close.
The greatest fantasy is to believe God designed the universe at all.
Why would you malign your perfect deity by blaming him for such shoddy work?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
JcGadfly,
I wasn't including you as a piece of God's work. You could be, but for the time being you are on the slippery slope, and your slope monitor sensors aren't working either. God could rescue you, but you would have to come to yourself - which would definitely be God's work. As long as it's like sport to you JcGadfly to do wrong you are involved in an area where there's a shortage of hand baskets.
I know you look at the creation and call out your "tea kettle theory" or something like it that offers you a "trap door" out of possibly having a thought about it all. I don't see how you generate such faith in yourself and your fellow ramblers here on the "rambling response squad", where as your caddy says, "it happened, we did, we did, but yes, we answered, we told you, blah, blah. It would be my counsel for you to get another caddy JcGadfly, one that knows the course - distance - and slope and can carry the bag instead of live in it.
As a project over the weekend - plenty of time for a "walking, talking, chemical machine" - why doesn't "your brilliance" just make a fly and see how it works. Or, how about just a blade of grass. For a handicap you can even use the materials God has created. After you get your fly going or your grass waving, teach it to land, feed itself, and make more flies or seed for more grass. That should be easy since it doesn't take any design. Have your caddy help you.
Then, we'll talk other projects.
He calls us the ramblers, lol.
Science has discovered the earth is 4.5 billion years old, we evolved as a species, the bible was written by men, spirituality is a psychosis to deal with death.
Disprove any of those.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
robj101,
You're on thin ice with your faith as stated.
Piltdown man (Eoanthropus Dawson) is an example of how eager scientists are to prove their faith. After Piltdown man was "discovered" in 1912 over 500 scientific essays were written on the Piltdown man in a 40 year period. It was proven to be a deliberate hoax in 1953. And you are putting your faith in whatever scientists are jumping on eagerly now?
It's not a matter of proof for or against with your faith or mine robj101, because no matter how loud you honk your horn or how long your parade you can't prove the matters of faith you mention. If Jesus was and is the Son of God Who died for our sins your world view doesn't exist. I believe with all my heart Jesus was and is the Son of God and I'm proving it to myself every moment. Others are too, but that's not a big thing with me because - it is truly and honestly personally working for me. There is solid rock there and I am standing and walking on it - with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
There are a lot of hoaxes in this world robj101 - we don't have to prove that to each other. And some of them are religious hoaxes, just as some of them are non-religious hoaxes. You, the world's greatest minority (the individual), have the great challenge of sorting out the one true Way - for you. For me, Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You have the maze before you and the challenge to decide which is the way for you that isn't the hoax. May the Way be well lit for you.
To not decide - is in fact to decide.
I suppose your "hoaxes" are the equivalent of say..any other religion?
You silly person claiming science is the hoax, science is something we can see, discover and figure out. Your example is a fine one, but you see it is something we can discover. You god is imaginary and you have fallen for the hoax of the age and it unlike science can't be disproven and neither can leprechauns.
Btw come over to my house selling me religion and I will show you a solid fukin rock upside the head.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Considering your reaction the last time the science of evolution was explained to you, we already know how you feel about facts : You quite simply don't care.
We already know that. There's no need to keep repeating it.
What we don't know, however, is why you keep saying things like "it is truly and honestly personally working for me", while at the same time you keep contradicting yourself and lying to us. This is still a mystery.
Because in my experience, people who are truly at peace and happy have no reason to lie, to themselves or to others. Especially not to perfect strangers on an internet board.
And that's why the following question is still relevant : Why did you lie ? I'm still referring to the lie about your earlier threads, since the proof for that is too obvious for even you to dismiss.
(If, as per usual, you're planning to either ignore this, or reply by accusing me of lying, then please do what I did and include proof of that accusation. Otherwise, it's just an insult, and I think we can both agree, that we've allowed you to insult quite enough people here already)
Also, I'd once again would like to advice you, in the strongest possible terms, to get your blood tested for lithium levels at the earliest opportunity. If you truly do not understand why this is important, then tell me, and I will gladly explain. Again.
Over 500 scientific essays? Does that include for and against? What's your source for that?
http://www.clarku.edu/~piltdown/map_expose/chain_of_fraud.html
Scientists are only human; you have to expect them to make mistakes. The lesson to be learned is that we should be careful with our preconceptions, not that all of science is based on faith. In fact, it is scientists, using evidence from technological advances, who finally proved that the fossil was a fake. Furthermore, scientists didn't all just desperately hold on to their faith until it was shattered in 1953. Piltdown man gradually lost credibility in the scientific community as other fossils were found, and most in the scientific community considered Piltdown man to be an anomaly that didn't fit within the fossil record by the time it was exposed as a hoax.
We can study fossils (not to mention everything else) in much more sophisticated ways than we could in 1912. Also, at that time, we were just starting to construct our evolutionary history. In the present day, we have thousands upon thousands of specimen comprising over a dozen species. Is it possible that we're wrong again? Sure. We can almost never be 100% certain that we're right about anything. We just have to do the best we can.
Speaking of certainty, you are choosing what you think is the certainty of Jesus over all the confusing faith in science, right? I know this will probably (well, almost definitely) fall on deaf ears, but are you certain that you're not doing the same thing that some of those British scientists did? Piltdown man was cleverly made, but at a certain point, I think we can agree that they went with what they expected and wanted rather than what a rigorous study of the fossil should reveal. From my perspective, you're doing something similar to what they did, but it's a lot worse in your case. Your "proof" for yourself is merely psychology. You hear a voice in your head and convince yourself that it's not yours. You get a warm fuzzy feeling. You see a rainbow after a thunderstorm and feel content. You feel connected after reading a particular Bible passage. You feel loved as you worship and greet other people at church. That's all it is.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Whoa! Hey, be nice.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Yeah, be nice. Only he gets to threaten people : "Believe in Jesus or die !". If we start doing it too, you know that will be the only part of your post he pays any attention to. If he doesn't just ignore it completely.
Ha! Oh well, he barely pays any attention to what we write anyways.
What are the chances that he's going to really address that last big post I made? He probably won't even remember the first two paragraphs after he sees that I called his relationship with Jesus psychology.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
I was referencing his "solid rock" of jesus or w/e the fux he was rambinlg about in his head.
I have solid rocks by my porch and none of them say "jesus" but I could put one upside his head.
Well maybe that doesn't help a lot, haha.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
We all know he will pick one item to refute (if he does respond) and then ramble about jesus. he has not been able to answer any hard questions.
I want to know if a human clone will have a "soul" for example. I listed a few good ones, he did not respond to any of them.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
butterbattle,
I am putting everything on Jesus' being the Son of God, born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, died for our sins, resurrected after the 3rd day, ascended to heaven, coming back measured in days.
I am certain about Who I believe in and what I believe about Him. If that's what the scientists did that jumped on the Piltdown man, putting their trust in that, it fulfilling all their desires, fueling their hopes, answering their prayers, then maybe I am doing the same thing. I won't be studying what they did long enough to know.
But you mischaracterized me at least in part. I don't hear any "voices" in my head. I don't get a "warm fuzzy feeling"; however I am experiencing the wealth of contentment. I have no doubts about any of the Scripture being true and it does connect. i have no doubts about Jesus and His Spirit dwelling in me. I know you do, and that's your privilege butterbattle.
And you say I am just caught up in the current of "assurance" at church. That's your faith, not mine.
I have evidence of Who and What I believe in - and no doubts whatsoever. In the end we'll know who is right. I know Jesus is LORD.
Choose your choice.
The only difference in the two "hoaxes" like I said one has been proven false and the other, yea they are still cashing in on it as you could obviously attest too.
What about Koresh? Was he a hoax? In religion, no way!
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Don't you want to do better than that though? Would you be content with fulfilling all of your desires, fueling your hopes, and answering your prayers on an illusion?
I don't care how good imaginary steaks tastes. I want to know what real steak tastes like.
I apologize if I misrepresented you in any way.
I still think my general analysis of what you're doing is correct though; I just don't know the details. You mistake your emotions for actual evidence. You post hoc. You violate Occam's razor. Etc.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
No, sorry, but you've already admitted, earlier in this thread that you "could be wrong". You followed that up with "but I'm confident I'm right", but you still left room for doubt.
Unless you were kidding/lying/whatever.
I'm putting everything on you being an average human, born of a coupling of humans, living an imperfect life, dying someday, not being resurrected, going back to the ground where you came from, having been completely wrong about what you perceived as reality pushed on you by other fallible people.
"Make your choice"
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
butterbattle,
I have tried the vanity of vanities you are fixated on - life in this world without God - and THAT is what imaginary steak tastes like. And there's no need for apology about mischaracterizing me, I was just informing you that you are off base in your perspective of my life in Christ for your own information.
I also believe you are sincere in being the director of your own life. That's not a new thing.
As far as your string of "theories" - I don't find them in my book. They don't concern me. Neither does your assessment of me or my life in Christ.
I'm intrigued, Fonzie. If your religion is so great, why do you feel you have to lie about it and other things?
You claim your God directs your life - it's awfully convenient that your God agrees with you in all things (instead of the reverse), isn't it?
You don't want to see any other assessment of your life in Christ? So much for "You shall be known by your fruit"..oh wait those are the words of Jesus - as a follower of Paul's Christ, you don't care about them.
The only assessment of your life in your Christ (you) is the one you look at in the mirror - no chance of going wrong that way.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Since your own assessment of yourself doesn't even seem to concern you, I don't really see how you could have made a more meaningless statement.
The only reason you replied to Butter anyway was because he gave up asking you that question you were so afraid of.
AMEN!!!
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
Ah, but you see, my point was that I would opt for a real steak over a more delectable imaginary steak. To me, the very fact that it is a real steak makes me crave it more than virtually any imaginary steak. If non-theism is your imaginary steak, then it is not a good analog to my imaginary steak, as you are clearly extremely attached to Jesus, and you've stated and explained many times in the past that you don't like non-theism. You think that it is empty, hopeless, confusing, etc. So, you're real steak tastes exponentially better than your imaginary steak. For me, that would be a serious cause for reflection.
Most people often think with their heart rather than their mind. I think that anytime we've identified we have some emotional bias for our own position and against some opposing position, we should look even harder to make sure that we haven't fallen into error. I'm not saying we should just throw away our emotions though. Our emotions are an important part of who we are, and they are necessary for relationships, morality, etc. Rather, we should direct our emotions; we make the decisions with our mind, and then, we release our emotions when it's appropriate.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
butterbattle,
It's hard for me to know whether you don't really understand or diligently work at not understanding and achieve success through diligence. Your home and main course, desert, entertainment during dinner, ambience and fellowship is in and with this world. This to you represents worthy substance. You are not only in this world but of it.
To me it's the shadow of substance. I'm camping out here - my citizenship is in heaven. The eternal things, the things unseen except by the eyes of faith are real substance. You are living your life in this world without striving to seek God or His desires for your life. You are in fellowship with many of the same mindset. It's not uncommon; in fact, it's standard fare.
In this scenario you are living out "vanity of vanities". You are accepting the shadow as substance. You are putting yourself on an eternal diet by doing that. You are closing your eyes to the treasure - the grace of God in Christ.
Jesus is the Manna from heaven, the Water of life - and eternal substance.
He sure has a funny way of showing it.. yea not at all is funny.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
No, unfortunatly it's not very common at all. Having the courage to face reality is actually quite rare.
Er....he just explained the difference between "substance" and "shadow" to you, so what are you talking about ?
Oh sorry. I forgot you don't actually read what we post.
I realize this is some kind of experiment to see how long people will try to rationalize with insanity..but my fingers type of their own accord, I can't make it stop oh the buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
Huh.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Well.....no, actually, it's fairly uncommon if you look at the numbers. Eh, I guess it depends on how you define "uncommon."
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
There are about 1.1 billion people who consider themselves "non-religious." About half of those are theists. Of the remaining, only a fraction would be scientific naturalists. So, take another half, say 250 million rational atheists (I think that's a very liberal estimate). That would put us at about 5% of the population, compared with Christianity 33%, Islam 21%, Hinduism 14%.
Yes yes yes, but see, that's what I'm talking about. Jesus is your treasure, Manna from heaven, Water of life, Jesus tastes sooooooo good. On the other hand, I'm not sure I wouldn't be happier as a Christian. It's good psychology.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Reality is reality; I have no special personal claim to it. I have, based on my own perceptions and reason, and building off the insights of others, I have constructed a view of things that mostly consistently describes that reality. Given my limited experiences and biases, it is of course imperfect, in all its aspects, and so I always seek new evidence, new insight into the workings of things, that I may revise my ideas to better fit reality. I assume as little as possible because untested or untestable assumptions add nothing to a real understanding of the world, and may cloud it should they be incorrect.
You suggest that I aught to assume a creator, and I ask, why? We both see the world and everything in it. It exists, yes, but working from the ground up, starting with minimal axioms and requiring rigorous proof of all assertions, no phenomenon demands a creator as cause. Indeed, to test for such a creator as holds the properties theists ascribe to it would be quite impossible, so why then claim it exists when you can't possibly have any verifiable proof? You take the words of a three thousand year old book, written by humans who were, any rational person must conclude, as subject to bias, imperfections of perception, and all other human traits that cloud the truth as any other, because it tells you to, without any real means of independently verifying its authority. Why?
Or, Fonzie, has it ever occurred to you that you might be wrong?
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
Sirrah,
Your "building off the insights of others" a constructed view of things that describe "your" experience fed and biased tilted research oriented problem solving approach is like the old tower of Babel, simply another man's tribute to himself or themselves with a sense of a centrifugal force likely to pull the community apart thus the need to make a mark, for the common good, we are the world &etc. Like I say you are your own director in this and thus responsible for your play at life.
Consider the security of following God's plan instead of yours and letting Him be the director. If truly following His plan He takes responsibility. Abram, called to go to a land God would show him went secure though it was in the thick of enemies - but it was God's plan. The same with salvation - it's God's plan. You do have to get off the throne and rise up and walk with God.
You're just walking - no direction, no plan within an eternal plan, no fellowship with God (which you could have in Christ), so you're just walking alone. And in truth the Bible would say you are part of the "walking dead". All the human race is fallen and spiritually dead - and can't get up except through Christ. These may seem like wounds to you but remember: faithful are the wounds of a friend. Profuse are the kisses of an enemy.
As are you, so what's your point ?
A perfect excuse, as if you needed any, to ignore his questions and arguments, and throw out a few random, pious-sounding insults.
Which is what you just did.
Again, for the, oh I dunno, 400th time ?
Religious faith, as you define it, seems to be just a guy who yells abuse when you get too close, or just pretends he can't see you.
Billy Bob Jenkins,
Ha, nice try. "Not quoting" would be much better than "misquoting", Billy. Too transparent, Billy Bob (the Cable Guy). You're trying identity theft with God? There's a security system in place for that, Billy.
Your quotes are a rod for your phony back.
LOL !!
Fundie fight !
I was going to say, "You say that like a bad thing." and leave it at that, but your broken half-metaphors and vagaries are beginning to chafe. It seems you can't make it a paragraph without mangling at least one thought with some non sequitur clause or overstretched figure of speech. Please pay closer attention in editing your posts.
To return to my original response, yes, I am my own director, responsible for myself. Every man is, only some give up and let others take over.
You keep coming back to this, but here's the thing: You aren't following God's plan and you're not walking with him. You're only following your own limited conception of the scattered, often contradictory but never divine ideas of men collected together over millenia and codified over a thousand years ago. The difference, the key difference, between you and I is that you take as your base premise a book that tells you to on its own authority, and I take what I can see. If you never address that point, sir, this discussion will progress no where. I'm not asking what you believe. I'm asking why.
Agreed. My position, you see, comes of realizing that this is true of everyone. No man walks with any god. We're all alone with each other, only I admit it.
Then, maybe you don't even read the Bible. Is that it?
Either way, it is becoming increasingly apparent to me that you are the one who is "phony". Underneath all of the wimpy, prissy pussing about your false god, you are a reprehensible ape of a man.
I defy you to show me where I have misquoted God. My quotations come directly from the KJV1611. Since you cannot, I demand an apology before God and all these sodomites here at Rational Response.
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
Billy Bob Jenkins,
I'm sorry you don't know that the old law has passed away.
I'm sorry you come on here talking about stoning your son or daughter and saying God condones that.
Hebrews 7 11-23 "If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For He of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
For it is evident that our LORD sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
And inasmuch as not without an oath He was made priest: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The LORD sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God byu Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them.
For such an high priest became us, Who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for His own sins, and then for the people's: for this He did once, when He offered up Himself.
For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the
Son, Who is consecrated for evermore."
2 Peter 3.14-16 "Therefore beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our LORD is salvation - as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures."
Fonzie, why do you espouse a doctrine that would piss Jesus off?
Matthew 5:18 (King James Version) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Now about that apology...
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
Billy Bob Jenkins,
Jesus didn't diminish anything in the law - He fulfilled it. (like a marriage fulfills an engagement)
Hebrews 8 "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such a High Priest
Who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A Minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the LORD pitched, and not man.
For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. For if He were on earth, He should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, see, saith He that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
But now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also He is the Mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, He saith, Behold, the days come saith the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not saith the LORD.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the LORD; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and everyman his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
In that He saith, A new covenant, He hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
Thus, Billy Bob we don't sacrifice animals for sin as the old law dictated, We aren't restricted on barbecue (that should make you happy) Jesus declared all foods clean (from Mark 7 "And when He had called all the people unto Him He said unto them, Hearken unto Me every one of you and understand. There is nothing from without a man that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. And when He was entered into the house from the people, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. And He saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And He said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man."
Thus our Eternal High Priest fulfilled the old law He didn't diminish it. We are now under the law of grace through faith in Christ and His Sacrifice, once for all sins for all time.
At the first Pentecost 50 days after the first Passover before coming out of Egypt God wrote the law on tablets of stone on the mountain. At the last Pentecost 50 days after the Lamb of God was slain on Calvary God wrote the law on our hearts.
The irony here is so sweet and thick I could eat it with a spoon.
You guys totally deserve each other. Have fun !
Because "Fonzie" 's bigger than Jesus.
By "till all be fulfilled" He means to reiterate "till Heaven and Earth pass". If you think it means that the law can lose a "jot or tittle" by fulfilling it, but not until Heaven and Earth pass, and that he fulfilled it and removed jots and tittles from it before Heaven and Earth passed, then you believe a contradiction. God does not contradict Himself.
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
Billy Bob,
It's an interesting chaicature you have created and I have to hand it to you. You might expand it into a video or a cartoon. Here are some examples of the possibilities open to you: (remember - sharpen your axe and you'll do better)
http://www.christianbrain.com/vintage21.aspx
@ Fonz
I can only interpret your change of the subject as an admission of defeat. Does this mean that you will stop picking and choosing from the scripture which bits you find acceptable, and get right with the Lord?
The scripture says not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until all is fulfilled, not until the law is fulfilled. That means not one jot or tittle shall pass until Heaven and Earth pass, and everything in eternity is fulfilled. Otherwise, why did He say "until Heaven and Earth pass"?
I really think you should get your nose in the Good Book instead of all this horsing around on the internets.
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.
Billy Bob Jenkins,
It's really not a change of subject. I don't see any point in talking to you about Scripture - you didn't show any sound reasoning concerning the Scriptures I supplied that show the old law - such as stoning your son or daughte - the things you brought up with your "created character" here, have passed away. I gave the example too of how Jesus "declared all foods clean" - so your answer is just more of what you're all about. I don't buy your presentation of yourself or your arguments Billy Bob.
So, until further notice (as in: NEVER), don't stone your kid, try to get your mind off sex, have a bar-b-Q, consider having an honest thought, and stay away from hooch if you want to be a Nazarite.
Nice to see you still confuse Jesus the Jew with that thing Paul created.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Forgive me, but I refuse to repeat myself just because you refuse to comprehend what I say. But please refrain from making the same ignorant comments over and over. I have already refudiated everything you have said.
The Truest Christian these atheists will ever meet. I worship the only Lord at the Church with the Truest Christians: Landover Baptist.