It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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Lol. I think anything I have evidence for or am compelled to believe is worth believing in. Christianity fits neither of those catagories, so Christianity is about as likely, to me, as Santa Clause.
Bridge breeding proves evolution false.
So are you know expressing your contempt for honesty itself ? Actually, that would explain a lot.
Sorry, but I'm pretty sure he can read. You lies have been posted and re-posted and posted again. You yourself provided proof of your dishonesty. So what exactly do you think you're talking about ?
The problem remains the same : If you think it's worth your while to lie to us about trivial things such as your earlier threads, and stick to that lie even after you get caught, then how can we trust anything you say ?
He's talking about your version of jesus, which is indeed non-exisitent, but mostly, he seems to be adressing your ridiculous dishonesty.
On that count, I don't hear you disagreeing with him.
Know this : bible-talk will not make your lies go away. They're still here.
I think Zarathustra may have been parodying your tendency to add "amusing" little titles to your posts.
Anyway, untill you solve the mystery of your stubbornly dishonest nature, nothing you say can be trusted.
So I guess we'll just wait untill you answer the question : Why did you lie ?
Anonymouse,
I thought you said you would keep my posts intact.
Nothing was deleted. He intercut his responses in direct answer to each of your points.
What do you believe was removed/changed? Or are you just concerned that he broke your post into manageable chunks to respond to?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Nothing was deleted. He intercut his responses in direct answer to each of your points.
What do you believe was removed/changed? Or are you just concerned that he broke your post into manageable chunks to respond to?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I thought you might return the favor by answering my question.
You didn't.
So why should I indulge your typographical whims as well, since you'll ignore my answers and questions anyway ?
So I'll ask it again : Why did you lie ?
Anonymouse,
That's ok, no problem. Cut it, flay it, I don't care. Back in high school we used to diagram sentences - that might have been before your time.
I was just reading something in Carlyle, "The French Revolution", that says essentially what I have been saying about the activity of the irrational response squad. It's a little long but you can cut it up. See what you think of it:
Here, indeed, lies properly the cardinal symptom of the whole wide-spread malady. Faith is gone out; Scepticism is come in.
Evil abounds and accumulates: no man has Faith to withstand it, to amend it, to begin by amending himself; it must even go on accumulating.
While hollow langour and vacuity is the lot of the Upper, and want and stagnation of the Lower, and universal misery is very certain, what other thing is certain? That a Lie cannot be believed! Philosophism knows only this: her other belief is mainly that, in spiritual supersensual matters no Belief is possible.
Unhappy! Nay, as yet the Contradiction of a Lie is some kind of Belief; but the Lie with its Contradiction once swept away, what will remain? The five unsatiated Senses will remain, the sixth insatiable Sense (of vanity); the whole daemonic nature of man will remain,—hurled forth to rage blindly without rule or rein; savage itself, yet with all the tools and weapons of civilisation; a spectacle new in History.
I didn't ask what you were reading.
I asked why you lied.
Seems I'll have to ask again :
Why did you lie ? Try answering in your own words for once. And try answering honestly.
Yay!
More insults from fonzie/meph, the truthful liar, the unchristian Christian.
I don't care why you lied but I would be interested in knowing why you fear the truth.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
PimpingWolfwood,
You didn't list Santa Clause as one of your beliefs here, just a similar far reach for you. So, commenting on Santa Clause and the big fat early gift of skepticism (oh really!), the apparent misconception (bad or good? yeah, right!), distraction to frivolity (out serious, in big fuzzy). And sure! the Well is right here and yet thirst for Christ abounds unrecognized and skeptically unconsidered.
As Bunyan said, "what a thousand fools I have been to lie rotting in this dungeon when I have the key in my pocket." And later, "One of the doors opened damnably hard".
An ocean of choices and keys (with distractions) lie waiting. Do I see need of focus, anchor, plan, destination, energy, direction, progress and crew? For seaweed - no. For us going somewhere (especially desirable) - yes. We have it all in Christ the Fountain of Life. What is needed is God - opened eyes.
Fonzie/meph,
You claim to have "focus, anchor, plan, destination, energy, direction, progress" in Jesus.
Why, then, can you not give simple, honest answers to questions?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Prove to me I have a thirst for Christ and not Muhammad, dimwit. Prove to me I have a thirst at all, for that matter. You can't. And you still don't get it. You're not giving me evidence for your belief -- you're just vehemently proclaiming that I can't be happy without your God. And that's stupid.
Bridge breeding proves evolution false.
PimpingWolfwood,
Yes there are other thirsts, maybe other no thirsts you may have and be ignorant or aware of, satisfying in the street or public domain, spiritual dumpster, counterfeit supplier, sweet and low supplier, carbonated supplier, bait and switch supplier. You are eating and drinking something (spiritual body as well as physical) and, as Jesus said to the well woman in Samaria, "if you knew..." (ignorance removed) and on to say she would ask and He would give her the wise choice - "living water", never to thirst again. The water will "become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life".
Yes there are other thirsts: "sport to a fool to do wrong". There are frustrating thirsts: "stolen water is sweet", in the end "bitter as wormwood". And there are those smarter than us frustrating us, thirsting us, tricking us, bullying us, running the wheel over us, turning to run again.
There's thirst for wine, the sparkling wine, going down smoothly, (the biting adder), not for kings to drink or rulers to desire. It's for those perishing, to forget their poverty and misery. Not a wise thirst true - but another thirst as you mention.
Is there even thirst for blood among those you mentioned? - lying in wait for blood, wantonly ambushing the innocent? Definitely, but not the wise thirst or lasting thirst or the True Messiah thirst. To those who would listen the Father would say, "my son do not walk in the way with them". They ambush themselves.
The call goes out though to those God opens eyes to: "If any one thirst, let him come to Me (Jesus) and drink. He who believes in Me, as the scripture has said, 'Out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water.'"
Many things are offered for thirsts, foolish thirsts. But when will the fool become wise? When a wild ass's colt is born a man. It does happen - just ask anonymouse.
If he asks me a question, I'll answer it. It's a skill you seem to lack.
Try again, shall we ?
Why did you lie to us ?
@Wolfwood : I totally warned you. You were so warned.
When I hear this argument, I can't help but think what a fucking idiot the person making it is. Seriously. Like, I want to be nice to you. I really do. But I was pretty clear up top when I told you how ridiculous the rhetorical nonsense was -- and that's what this entire post is. The only reason you think all men "thirst" for your Jesus is because your Bible tells you so -- and you're incapable of proving your Bible true in any meaningful way.
I mean, think about this -- all men thirst for Jesus, except they never know it until they actually are Christians. When they're already biased towards believing a man in the sky guides their lives. So when their brainwashing is complete, they'll agree that they had a hole. Some of them.
So again. No more rhetoric. If you want to sell someone on your faith or even how capable you are of defending your faith from us sodomites, you'll need to do it without the bullshit. If you can't, well... I guess you'll keep being a weak-sauce little dimwit. And that's a loss for all of us.
Bridge breeding proves evolution false.
He might be an immovable object, but I'm an unstoppable force.
Bridge breeding proves evolution false.
PimpingWolfwood,
Continue to not worry about being nice to me.
There are thirsts other than for Jesus.
None others satisfy.
Can't prove.
Sorry.
Well, ever since you re-defined your insults and threats as "dew", I guess nobody has to worry about being nice anymore.
Not that you ever did.
For that you apologise, but lying to us is okay ?
Being nice is a part of human civility. You really ought to try it .
It beats meaningless pontificating and acting like the stick up your ass has a stick up its ass. Unfortunately it involves facing questions that scare you so it might be tough for you.
I wonder how much you have actually experienced Jesus when you claim that your life is one mountaintop after another. Really? No valleys at all? Damn, you're better at life than Jesus was - why do you need him?
Without low places in your life, how do you know that the Living Water satisfies your thirst? You've never needed a drink.
It's interesting how you can say Jesus is the only one that satisfies your thirst but you can't say how he's done it. I don't need proof - just want to know how it works for you.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
The admission and frank attitude are all I wanted.
Bridge breeding proves evolution false.
PimpingWolfwood,
You don't "prove" matters of faith like geometry formulas.
Then how do you know Jesus/God works for you?
Was it just a load of bat guano when God allegedly said:
"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it."
or have you not been paying your God-dues?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Fonzie, it serves me nothing to know you respect true intellectual courage when you will not exercise it yourself. It is clear you are happy to soak in the menstruation of your own lies:
When you refuse to answer straightforward questions (now multiple + 2 times), you simply confirm the lies that belief in jesus spores in those too weak and gullible to deconstruct its inherent fallacies.
Please remove your rancid christ-cancer from my presence. Dishonesty and intellectual cowardice does not work for me.
There are no theists on operating tables.
That's right Fonzie - the most important things in the multiverse are human feelings.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Glorious.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
You don't prove them at all. You believe unbelievable things either because you're ignorant or because you're compelled to believe them in some way you find to be inexplicable.
That's why your arguments bothered me. But the fact you're willing to break down and admit what you did means that I can let it go, unless you start pulling the same stuff again.
Bridge breeding proves evolution false.
PimpingWolfwood,
Though I can't prove matters of faith to you I am proving faith in Christ to myself everyday all day. Christ lives in me and I experience that abundant life personally. Things of faith are available to you too - there is just a need for your eyes to be opened by God to Christ and the gospel. There's nothing hard to understand - what could be simpler than "believe in Christ and live".
I only tried to "break it down" (as you say) so you don't experience overload. I'm not concerned BTW about what you "let go" or "don't let go" or any of the 15 minutes of empty fame passed around on this forum. That's not the point.
You don't "prove" matters of faith because there is a miraculous change required by God that happens through the gospel concerning Christ and His atoning death on the cross for all the sins of mankind for all time and His resurrection and the power of it - to those who believe in Him. It's within the reach of everybody, but you get it from God. You might have to break yourself down if you want it - like, "come in off the water" and let Him take the throne.
There's nothing hard to understand - what could be simpler than answering a simple 'a' or 'b' question:
Please remove your rancid christ-cancer from my presence. Dishonesty and intellectual cowardice does not work for me.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Fonzie, what's the point of proving Christ to yourself? You're already convinced. Still, it must be nice to be able to go from mountaintop to mountaintop - having Jesus without really needing him. It must be like carrying a canteen of water down the beverage aisle at the supermarket.
And you always come back to the "You have to believe before you can believe" argument. If I have to know God fully before i know Him fully,what's the point of trying? It's like marrying someone you've known for 5 minutes. You may be that kind of a slut but I'm not.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
You gave him the admission he was looking for. If you really weren't concerned, you would have left it at that.
I guess you're unwilling to let anyone leave this thread thinking they got an admission out of you.
Yes, join "Fonzie" in the neverending circular argument that isn't even an argument in the first place.
Seriously, Wolfwood, are you that bored ? (Unless you're having fun. In which case, never mind me and carry on)
It's a funny/sad thing.
Fonzie: Jayzus works fer me
Someone: How do you know?
F: i can't prove it to you - you just have to believe and God will open your eyes.
SO: Then how can you say he works for you?
F: I experience the happy-happy joy-joy of Jayzus all the time.
SO: Tell me about it.
F: i can't prove it to you - you just have to believe and God will open your eyes.
et cetera ad nauseum
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
What could be simpler? Well, not believing in something that is without evidence would be much simpler. That way you don't have to play logical games with yourself to justify your beliefs.
Also, you didn't understand what I meant by the term 'break down.' It means to back down or give up. To climb off your pedestal. I was complimenting you for your willingness to admit that despite all the silliness you'd previously been spouting, you were capable of acknowledging the fact that you can't prove anything. Obviously that compliment was premature.
The, "letting it go," comment was my olive branch. I was trying to tell you that if you were willing to forgo the rhetoric that I wouldn't give you a hard time. Again, it seems I was a little premature.
Yeah, so for Christ to miraculously change me I have to believe in Christ. Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. "You can't be brainwashed until you're brainwashed!"
Bridge breeding proves evolution false.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
rebecca.williamson,
So you kinda like the Cliff notes version huh. I think there is a desire to "sum it all up" - and maybe with haste at that - and "write it off". It's like "the end of the matter, all has been heard" and yet the atheists have heard nothing yet always claim they have made their point somewhere, sometime.
I might come up with my own summary of the atheist's argument:
F. "It works for me - Christ lives".
A. "I was once fooled by all this happy horse crap, now I'm free and real"
F. "What is your faith in?"
A. "I don't have faith, idiot, I have confidence. I know what I'm doing. You haven't proved anything and you don't know anything."
F. "Where have you come from and where are you going?"
A. "You idiot, I don't need that and you can't prove that, you don't know me that well to say that! I can prove what I don't like! When I die I'm dead and things are great and meaningful now and I've already told you how meaningful. Besides I'm helping my fellow man be real too. And I already told you you're an idiot and I'm real".
F. "Christ is the Lamb of God Who died for our sins so we could have eternal life starting now".
A. "You can't prove it, and you're really annoying me now with these things you can't prove. I know I'm right and we've all proved it several times. You even liked a couple answers so that proves we proved it and it proves you like what we're doing - or you did and now you don't? i thought you were reasonable and I used to like you but now I wonder about your sanity. So we're atheists, your an idiot, and if you don't believe me just wait until the next atheist supports me on this. You have faith in something you haven't proved to us. We know we're right and we've proved it. And I'm happy and helping my fellow man."
F. "Faith is like spiritual eyesight".
A. "Ok, you're using a computer made by an atheist and what a joke that you'd bring that up on a medium us atheists have created."
etc, ad nauseum...
Gee, fonzie, all that might be true except that we've answered your "What gives your life meaning?" question over and over again. You've even quoted my answer (though you didn't like it because it didn't involve sucking off the magic man you call god).
Christ got a three-day weekend because his dad wanted to change a rule he made up and needed to do some bloodletting. Since Christ resurrected instead of staying dead for my "sins", doesn't that void the deal?
Is your skill at lying natural or God-given? Why do you keep doing that anyway? Lithium levels too high?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Oh crap! I just said it was funny and it did sum it up. Sigh, I opened the can of worms so here goes. I'm not out to prove anything unlike you are. I simply never believed in the " happy horse crap ". Faith is just that, faith. You believe in some supernatural being because some grand fairy tale told you that you have to. I don't. I have an understanding that it's more than likely bullshit and I'm not buying into it. Yes it kinda annoys me when people preach to me when they know I don't buy it but I can't stop that in here so carry on. The spiritual eyesight is what faith is huh? No, faith in something people just have in something. It doesn't mean that it has to be spiritual or godly. I have faith in things but christ isn't one of them. If needed I will elaborate but for now I'm leaving it at that. I answered your summary of an atheist argument somewhat for now. If you feel the need to drag me in on this go ahead and I won't be mean to you but you won't like it Fonzie.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
You already did. But it kinda went like this : "I appreciate your reasonable answer", "there have been good discussions here", "You are consistent in your arguments", "I appreciate you explaining this, I enjoy trying to understand it, and I think I do to some degree",..
Etc, ad nauseum...
Either you were lying then, or you're lying now. Make up your mind.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure I never called you an idiot. I just know you're a liar. Denying that while providing the proof yourself is just a little silly, not idiotic.
(Btw, the "atheist" in your new summary brings up a few good arguments. You summarised replies ignore them, so who's point are you trying to make here ? )
@Rebecca : I'll tell you the same thing I'll tell everyone else who figures this guy can be talked to. He is by far the most dishonest person you'll ever meet (see above). Even if you bend over backwards for him, let him insult and threaten you without reacting, and the conversation ends amiably, he will simply deny that a few pages later, once your back is turned.
The reason he kept this going for so long is simple : Once he gets in a tough spot in one conversation, he just jumps to the next one and starts over, and he simply ignores the person he was talking to before. (Unless that person insists, in which case, they can get a few insult-only posts and bible-quotes, after which he goes back to ignoring their questions and arguments)
And not that it matters much, but he's an ex-troll who got banned for this already, and simply registered again under a new name.
Your imaginary atheist asks a very relevant question here. (Even though he phrases it rather poorly. You did more than "like" a "couple" of answers)
Funnily enough, your imaginary theist failed to answer it.
Go figure, eh ?
So could you answer it now perhaps ?
Yeah I've been reading here and there over the last couple of months just never put anything into it. It's always at the top when I log. Apparently I just couldn't ignore it anymore but anyway I am queen of smartassness so he'll probably ignore me anyway lol.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
We've tried ignoring him like he ignores us, but then he just starts replying to posts made over two years ago. I guess he's just lonely.
That being said, I have no idea why the mods haven't closed this down yet, like they eventually did his first and second thread.
He probably won't. He likes to avoid people who already know all his tricks, lies and contradictions, in favor of new people who are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
The fact that all atheists here have been willing to do just that, proves all his assumptions about us to be completely wrong.
Anyway, have fun here and don't mind me. I'm just a bit grumpy about having to keep repeating the same question for almost a year now.
Rebecca,
What would you like to discuss?
Fonzie,
It pains me to see you would feign an interest in discussion, when you refuse with the obstinacy of a petrified mule to response to simple 'a' or 'b' questions:
If you will not respond to the simplest of questions in a forthright manner, it is fruitless to open further discussion.
Please remove your rancid christ-cancer from my presence. Dishonesty and intellectual cowardice does not work for me.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Teh teh teh teh, you are looking for new bait. I don't like liars and people who dodge simple questions. Refer to lashonda thread " spirits ". It's maddening as hell and I don't have the patience for it. Change your method of rational conversation and we can talk. From what I've seen so far I have no interest in engaging in a conversation with you because it just goes in circles.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
See, all of your answers here are just rhetoric. It's like saying, "how can you have a creation without a creator?" Well, calling something a creation begs the question. It's a disingenuous, fallacious tactic. And that's the entirety of these kinds of posts. When are you going to learn that you can win people over by playing fast with them?
Bridge breeding proves evolution false.
You are so wrong and you will find out in the end. I have been a "non-denominational, born-again christian" for 40+ years, and it was a mistake and a lie. The only true happiness is when you can make your own decisions in life.
~~Be Real~~
Oh, a Fonzie summary. This is what he thinks atheists are saying?
I was never a Christian, but I suppose an atheist might write something like that. I don't think they would emphasize happiness though.
Having only confidence isn't much different than having only faith. Generally, scientific naturalists discuss evidence, not confidence.
We need evidence. We can't just prove or disprove things depending on whether or not we like them.
Well, meaningful for me. I don't think there is any objective "meaning."
I'm not sure what being real means.
That's true. You can't prove it. You've admitted this.
No, that doesn't prove it. That's a non sequitur.
That shouldn't make you believe anything. That would just be argumentum ad populum.
Well, that doesn't address your statement at all. I would ask you to define faith and spiritual eyesight and ask you how you know there is such a thing as "spiritual eyesight." But, let's not actually go there because I know I'll just get really frustrated with you leading me around in circles with ambiguous metaphors and analogies.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
The problem is, that's what he does with everybody, and he will go there with the next new person who shows up here.
His first two threads got closed down exactly for that reason, so why is this one being allowed to go on into infinity ?
Look, I have one more suggestion to end this farce in a way that still gives him a chance to redeem himself : Turn this into a debate thread where only two people can post. That way he can't avoid questions and arguments anymore by jumping to the next person.
Seriously, we're making it too easy for him to keep lying to himself and to us.
And what's the point of that ?
What would stop him from starting a new thread and avoiding the one-on-one?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Absolutely nothing.
This is never gonna end, is it ?
We can still draw conclusions from this.
We know he's a lying coward.
We know he likes to use analogies to hide his actual motives.
We know he doesn't know much of his holy book.
We know he has a pollyanna view of his religion.
We know he does lithium and doesn't do blood checks.
We know he's been banned from here before.
Anything else?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin