It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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Fonzie,
As now this thread has exceeded 2,000 posts -- approximately the number of years that jesus has not existed, I would invite you to attend to your continuing dishonesty:
If you will not respond to the simplest of questions in a forthright manner, it is fruitless for you to continue discussion.
Please remove your rancid christ-cancer from my presence. Dishonesty and intellectual cowardice does not work for me.
There are no theists on operating tables.
You forget the Christian martyr complex. Last time he was ignored he actually began to respond. Granted they were to posts two years back but he responded.
He likes getting his ass whipped.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Ugh! Now that I'm done washing my eyes out with bleach I guess I'll take time to respond to lonely Fonzie. Btw please give a heads up when you post a country video to me. I only watched about 10 seconds of it but that was tragic.
Ok well yes I love myself. I have to. I am a mom and if I don't love myself how can I love anyone else? On the other note, I am not vulnerable. I make dicidions for myself and I don't rely on everything everyone else has to say. Yes I have pride and I also stand up for what I believe in even if there are people that don't see things the way I do. You have pride. This whole thread is about you taking pride in your belief in god and jesus cuz it works for you. Is that the work of the devil. I know you will say no but keep in mind you did say that the devil likes to keep people that way. As for your question, no I don not recall a time. I pretty much stand my ground and don't let poeple sway me. Now I can admit when i 'm wrong but it requires proof for the most part. Other times when there isn't proof I usually don't care. I have my view and the other person has theirs.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
Rebecca,
The Scriptures say "in the last days there will come times of stress for men will be lovers of self...(etc)" I know this "love yourself" stuff is sold as big snake oil these days - but it doesn't really work or solve anything or satisfy. It maybe temporarily divorces people from some of their reality - (so does alcohol). Focus on yourself is a dismal road of frustration and insecurity - in the back of your mind you realize that honestly you can't guarantee yourself anything - even another minute, let alone destiny.
The Scriptures invite a different focus, the right focus - on God and Jesus. Believe in Jesus and you will live, and you will be saved from your sins and also from being the victim of your own futile thinking and the victim of other's false impressions. Also - give up focus on yourself and instead focus on the Living Christ and He will make you happier than you could ever make yourself or ever imagine.
I'm surprised your parents or teachers never told you things that you didn't want to hear that later you understand were good and true.
2 Tim 3:2-4
The source of all the self-esteem issues in Christianity. Thinking you're actually worth something as yourself is a sin in God's sight.
And people wondered why I tried to kill myself twice during my Christian days.
Is that why you're here, fonzie/meph? You see a whole bunch of people feeling good about themselves and you can't stand it?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Why do you keep talking about people who only "love themselves" ? She just explained that's not her.
Could it be that you simply don't care what she said ?
If people's replies don't matter to you, then why are you here ?
She's already living, and she's not focused on herself. Again, she already told you that.
Why won't you read what people post ?
Btw, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to mention this, but you ignored all the points she made.
No, you're not. You just had a speech prepared , and now you're pouting because she hasn't given you the opportunity to post it.
Oh, go on, just post it. You don't care what she says anyway.
It may take him a while - I posted another Scripture reference.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Oooooh! ok, I get it now. I'm not suppose to love myself. Ok, well I'm diabetic. So am I not suppose to love myself enough to take my insulin? But that would be considered suicide in the long run and also a sin, right? To be honest Fonzie, I tried faith in god/jesus and I was never happy. I found myself resenting this god/jesus because none of my prayers were answered. I prayed a lot for my son during his surgeries but come on.....doctors who went to school for years has to have everything to do with it. That and my son's strong will to be here.
As for your question about something later being useful or true, I figured you were referring to religious concepts. Yes, teachers did give me info that was true and useful. My mom on the other hand, no. You don't know my mom. She is a very hypocritical christian person. I don't take anything that woman says with more than a grain of salt.
Yes I can guarantee myself happiness by not believing in god/jesus. I am happier now. I don't have the "walking on eggshells" syndrome. If you want to use alcoholism in comparison with atheism, I can do the same with religion. As you probably well know, alcoholics live life in denial, they spend money on it and they believe they have to have alcohol in order to live a functional life. Sounds a lot like christianity to me. Denial: couldn't be that you are here because of your parent's. I mean your mother went through labor and childbirth and probably has the stretchmarks to prove it but god/jesus put you here for a reason. So you could live this sometimes overwhelming life and have him to pray to and he gets to pick and chose if he finds you worthy of answering your desperate pleas. Hahaha....no. Spending money: Christians do tyth. I can't even begin to understand (and understand no matter how hard you try I never will) what on earth the reason for tithing is. So we can have bigger churches, more parking space for these growing churches, church function so people can be gluts and eat til their about to pop, so the preacher can pay for some entertainment because he's bored and his wife is at her avon meeting for the next 4 hours.
See Fonzie, I know there is no proof of your jesus so I don't even bother to ask. But you don't have any proof that there is any god/jesus yet you push it down peoples throats anyway. This to me, should be considered a mental condition. Something you have never actually seen and you try to get people to buy it. Try as you might, you won't convert me.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
He'll just ignore that as well. He ignores the word of god, he ignores everyone who posts here, he ignores himself...and yet he still calls this "a conversation".
Btw, I know two more people who tried to off themselves in the name of christian love and understanding. One of them was succesful. Glad to hear you weren't, but sorry to hear you had to go through that at all.
The experiences helped me grow up. I've been able to tap into much of it in the acting work I get.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Queen Rebecca,
You DO have the right to say no to Jesus and God - that's true. And - I "can't convert you" (I have said that before). And I think there is too much in the way to shove anything down your throat don't worry. What you think you know blocks what you might know. What you could know is blocked by what you won't know. I think it's true you never really came to an understanding of Christianity, except some sorry doctrine that made you miserable. But don't let me fool you on that!
I came on this forum to say that Christianity works great for me - and that is the truth. Jesus is ALIVE! He is living in me. I am walking by faith in fellowship with God and with others who are doing the same thing. The Bible is the Word of God and produces faith. It's great. You're missing out. And it's true - you have every right to.
She also has her reasons, which she explained, and you ignored.
Yes, but you've also lied to us before. Several times. So it's not really farfetched for anyone to look at a 2000+ thread and conclude you're trying to convert people.
Although personally I prefer the conclusion of the mods from the first time they closed your thread : Spamming.
Indeed there is. There's a brain, there's common sense, there's life experience, there's reality,..
Yeah, let's try this : What she knows blocks nonsense and dishonesty from messing up her life. How's that ?
That "sorry doctrine" would be christianity.
If you read her post, you know you don't need to worry about that. Actually, so far you managed to fool nobody, but you did create quite a few atheists over the years.
Then why did you lie ?
Seriously, how you can even still type words like "truth" without blushing ?
You've already been caught lying to us, so what reason do we have to take any claims about your faith seriously ?
If it was really that great, then why did you need to lie to us ?
Every reason.
If you missed that, just read her post again.
Anonymouse,
Nice empty try Anonymouse. There is no lie from my side, you haven't produced it, it doesn't exist - yet you need something to focus on other than the fact that you have no plan, nothing to offer as an atheist, no hope, no direction, no anchor to life, no meaning. Yet you strut as though you've "got it" yet your insecure attacks betray your lack of footing. If you want to find a lie - look in your own heart and mind and soul. It's in everything including the furniture and the wall paper. You whitewash with lies and your defenses are defenses of clay. Will it be well with you when God searches you out? Can you deceive Him like one deceives a man?
As to "why I am here", which seems to be another thing you don't get - you are part of 'team atheist' who say Jesus Christ, His Life, His Atoning Death and Resurrection - the Gospel - are all a lie and you encourage people to take what you call 'the blasphemy challenge'.
I am here simply to say that you have it all wrong - Jesus IS ALIVE, He did die for our sins, He has purchased our salvation, He did rise from the dead and He does live in His people. And it all has meaning and works together in harmony. It has meaning concerning the creation, the history of God's dealing with man (also Satan's efforts to destroy God's glory which you share in), and meaning for the present - what's happening now, and meaning for the future - we go to be forever with the LORD. Walking by faith is a joy. Every moment has meaning.
My posts have been under the heading of it "WORKS FOR ME" - the fact that it doesn't work for you is your problem. You hold onto the lie which is blasphemy and nothing more. I hold onto the solution which is salvation through faith in Christ. Your lie is from your father, the Devil. The good news, the gospel, The Way, The Truth, and The Life is the Gift of God through faith in Christ. The fact that it's available to you now yet you are turning it down will be just one worm that will never die if you continue in the lie.
You are completely insane.
I have posted, re-posted, re-re-reposted ad nauseum the post where you deny being the author of your first thread here. So have other people.
Here, AGAIN :
You and Meph are one and the same person, so why did you lie about that ?
I warned you : This is a lie you can't run away from.
You asked my plan, I gave it to you. Then you claimed I never did. Then I gave it again. Then you claimed I never did. Then I gave it again,...
Seriously, how many times do we have to do this ?
Is this alzheimers or just pure malice ?
Asking someone a question is not "strutting", an "insecure attack" or "lack of footing". I already found your lies, which is why your opinion of me is irrelevant. Yes, it will be well with me. Thanks for your concern. Considering your behaviour, it's not going so well with you, though.
No, that's not who I am. I am someone who's been trying to ask you a simple, but apparently extremely difficult question, for about a year now. I'd like an answer so I can leave this thread, please.
If you can't bring yourself to do that, then please, once everyone is sick of your dishonesty and your thread sinks into oblivion again, could you just let it happen, instead of bumping it by replying to two-year-old posts ?
Yes, we got that the first time. What we don't get is why you need to keep repeating it, and repeating, and repeating it. Also, you've been unable to defend these assertions, when people have challenged them with solid arguments. You just repeat the same thing, over and over and over again. You haven't even been able to be honest with us, and that's really the minimum requirement on these discussion forums.
In short, you've shown yourself unable, unwilling, and downright contemptuous of the mere notion of having a honest conversation with the people you've met here.
That's why I wonder what you're doing here.
As I've told you many times before, you seem to have this forum confused with your personal blog.
That. Is. Not. What. It. Is. For !
And before that, under the heading "WHAT FAITH YOU". So ?
You've already revealed that the only reason that it works at all is your medication, a fact you blissfully ignore.
Actually, the fact that it doesn't has saved my life.
Again : Asking you a question is not blasphemy !
And none of that would work if you stopped taking your meds. Your faith is in medical science. They don't really need it.
..........WTF ? Did you get tired of making comments about my mother ? What the heck is wrong with you ?
You're telling me I just created an immortal worm ?
Uh...okay.
*sigh*
Listen, enough already, okay ?
Just answer the question so we can end this thread : Why did you lie ?
Yeah, yeah, we noticed.
When did i obtain the name Queen Rebecca? I'm glad you think so highly of me Fonzie, thanks. Anyway, if you can preach I guess I can too. Fonzie, faith in no jesus works for me. I'm exicited about the fact that I can live my life in peace and not constantly worry about what jesus/god thinks. It's great and I like it that way. I don't have to buy into the whole "you're going to hell" bit because well, I don't buy it. It just works for me. You should join us Fonzie. We have cookies and we don't have to worry about eating to many because we don't believe we'll be punished for something stupid like that too.
Ps, I told you that you wouldn't like what I have to say.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
People kill this thread already, it has become extremely redundant and boring! He is probably just trying to see how long he can carry his argument so he can show it to his jesus-fanboy friends.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted...
The only way to kill it (since he keeps posting even if nobody's talking to him) is for the mods to close it, like they did with his first threads, and just give him his troll-badge back.
I have no idea why that hasn't happened yet.
Well I know why Fonzie has this need to defend his delusion now. Country music, for the most part it's for retards. "god is great beer is good..and people are crazy" yep sums it up so well.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Queen Rebecca,
You called yourself queen and I was just honoring that. I think enough of you to tell you the truth however, your majesty.
Ma'am, you said you are a mother. Your child at one stage could have found playing with an electrical outlet exciting and peaceful, and not bought into the idea that there was any danger, it was working for him/her, maybe inviting friends to join, none of them worried because they all didn't believe there were any consequences.
Your belief has nothing to do with what actually is, only your awareness (or lack) of it. Even a queen could be totally unaware of what's really going on.
No, you weren't. She was obviously joking, but you latched onto that because you have no arguments, and you like to create the illusion that non-christians are somehow arrogant. It doesn't bother you that you have to be dishonest to do that.
You haven't managed that yet. Not to her. Not to anyone here. You still have to explain why you lied to us.
Like you said, she's a mother, so that wouldn't happen.
Btw, simply saying "this is like that" isn't an argument. It's just an attempt at being insulting, and I think we've had about enough of those from you.
You like making analogies ? Here's a tip : For an analogy to work, there has to be a similarity between the two things you're comparing. If there isn't, like in your quote just now, it's just nonsense. And we've had enough of that from you as well.
She doesn't need belief, because, unlike you, she deals with "what actually is". Not being aware of something that isn't there, isn't "lack of awareness", it's called honesty, or "being sane", if you will.
Which is relevant how exactly ?
Here, this is relevant to your threads : Why did you lie ?
Maybe we should let you hang onto the whole god thing after all.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Anonymouse,
I think the mods are hoping and waiting for the atheists to put a better face on atheism than you have. I've made an honest effort to discuss, accepting the idea that I can't produce faith in Christ and God by anything I say - but I have made an honest effort to tell what Christ has done and is doing in my life and how that relates to the past present and future. You atheists have come back with graffiti, insults and a disorganized demolition - like a bunch of guys drinking themselves drunk and trying to tear a house down. There's an analogy for you.
Your next tactic is to come on and say, "oh yes but we did again and again", and "oh, since you said that you saw it". The picture of atheism you have painted is "modern art" which takes more faith to believe and see any relation to reality than I can imagine. It's just a bunch of disorganized insults. It's a rudderless trip through life. You want people to think just because you can dream up an insult about each sentence I write you have defended atheism with a sound argument. Even you know you haven't.
I don't think the atheists have a shared meaning of life. They don't know why they are here, what to do while they are here, what here is, or where here goes. That takes a lot of desire generated faith - wandering desire.
So come on again all of you. Tell me how you once described how meaningful it is to be an atheist and I ignored it. Several times you did when nobody was looking. Just look back at the recent posts and see true atheism at work and how it makes the world a better place.
No, the mods who gave your first incarnation the troll badge are no longer active on this forum. I think hambydamnit only does his own blog now, and deludedgod is busy being a scientist.
The ones we have now are new, and can be excused for not reading your repetitive, self-contradicting oeuvre in it's entirety.
Yeah, let's just stop you right there. Please refrain from using the word "honest" untill you explained why you lied to us.
As for the word "discuss", before you get to use that one, you'll have to learn to respond to people's arguments, answer their questions, and generally stop trying to insult them. If you could be so kind.
You've produced pity and active atheism. In a way, my persona on this board is your creation. (I'm even starting to become just as bombastic as you are)
You have told us about your past and present. That at least is true. Which is why it was possible for us to determine you have been lying to us. As for "christ"'s involvment in any of this, that remains nothing but an assertion that you've been unable to defend with anything but insults for over three years now. You could not possibly have failed more spectacularly.
And like I explained, and you ignored again, for an analogy to work, there needs to be a similarity between the two things you're comparing. And according to yourself, there isn't.
So you are once again, disagreeing with statements you made earlier in your thread.
Why do you keep doing that ?
Do I now have to explain the difference between a "tactic" and a fact ? Look it up yourself, please.
Nobody here discribed atheism as "modern art", so what are you talking about ? Please, try to make a little sense.
Again, you are disagreeing with yourself. You have gone back and forth between gratefully thanking people for explaining their atheism and stating that you "enjoy trying to understand it, and think I do to some degree", to calling it "nothing but demolition".
Are you planning to make up your mind any time soon ?
Could you please tell us which of your statements was a lie and which was your real opinion ?
Cause you can't have it both ways, you know.
Uhm...You do realise that, don't you ? (Cuz if you don't, that would explain a lot)
I asked you one simple question. If you had answered it honestly the first time, I would never have had to bother with these tedious, repetitive replies.
But instead of answering my question, you gave me one irrelevant speech after another, filled with strange accusations, assumptions and threats.
I haven't defended atheism in my replies to your speeches, because you didn't attack it. You attacked me personally, going so far as to make weird and bizzare statements about my mom and dad.
I simply defended myself against your dishonesty and visciousness.
Even you know that I've done quite a good job of that.
Empty words. Meanwhile, atheists all over the world are going on with the daily business of life, unimpressed and unhindered by your fantasies.
It takes absolutely no faith at all. That's the whole point of being an atheist. The fact that you still don't get that is mindblowing.
Again ???? WHY ? You ignored us all the first 2000 times.
I have a better idea. Let's ask this guy "Fonzie" what he thinks about the atheists replies so far :
You and this "Fonzie" guy...you don't seem to agree on much.
Is he your evil, atheist twin brother ?
Or are you just a liar ?
Hi again, fonzie.
I understand that you don't like the answers you've been given. It must really confuse and disturb you that there are people who don't need a God in their lives and can still function, help others and have a meaning and purpose in their lives.
What you're experiencing is called cognitive dissonance. It's a natural thing. Normally I'd tell you to do research on the topic that is affecting you but you are nowhere near ready for that. the best advice I can give you is to lurk for a bit and read what has been given to you. Don't try to set up a response to anything - just read with an open mind. This may even be a big step for you but i can't thing of any true "baby steps"
You did, however, hit on a very important truth (though I'm not sure you are aware of it). Atheists don't have a shared meaning of life. The meanings we bring to life are as diverse as the individuals on this forum. This is not to say we don't know why we are here, what to do while we are here, what here is, or where here goes". It simply says that we don't have a lock-step, reflex method of dealing with things.
We are human beings. We have a fantastic ability to adapt to our surroundings and situations. This adaptive ability allows us to band together and form societies while maintaining our individuality and tolerating others in their attempts to do the same. Putting yourself in a system that has only one way of dealing with problems forces you to sacrifice that ability. Some Christians realize that (I think you do as well) and reinterpret Scripture in less rigid ways, often disregarding them altogether.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
That kinda depends on which "fonzie" he's being at the time. Sometimes he likes it, sometimes he doesn't.
Nice. Hope he reads it.
Nothing you and others haven't told him before, but I'd like to see him call this "demolition" again.
Lets hear some specifics. You talk of this god who has done so much for you, lets hear some examples.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
He credits god for making his bipolar manageable. Never mind the meds, it was god, that kind of thing.
Btw, you just invited him to preach to you. You are so gonna get it now. Half a page at least.
This thread degenerated into a farce long ago through your veiled threats and the constant adhom you're always dishing up - look at this post and there it is again. What - a few half-hearted posts here are representative of true atheism or were ever intended to be? You must be joking. One thing you are right about is that atheists don't have a shared dogma they can plaster over their collective lives. But if you're wondering what it feels like - it feels like life. Without the parachute.
You have a set of faith-based beliefs that are entirely subjective and that stand unproven. Whatever we say that might be based in fact is subordinated to your constant elevation of your own self. What the hell are we going to do? We are not you. The special set of private circumstances you insist are unassailable proofs are outside our comprehension and we'd no doubt tag them differently if they were not.
It's when you start suggesting disbelief in this subjective god equates to human immorality - that it guarantees a richly deserved eternal torment - that you'll find we tell you to fuck off. It's here we find the measure of the differences in our respective natures. I could never worship or accept a murderous personal god who planned to kill you, Fonzie. But you can and you do. I expect you would call this forthright position, pride. You're mistaken. It's called integrity.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
The same condition that "god" gave him, funny that. "I will curse you child, then I will umm, somehow make it better for you through human means."
Yea I already know and welcome a full page of preachery. There is nothing this guy can make up that will work vs rationale. He will take a term like that and say that his god requires none and my use of it only proves him to be right. hur dee dur I wonder was he homeskooled?
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Fonzie,
Read carefully please, the following facts should eliminate any percieved 'need' for you to continue posting in this thread. Any reply after reading this automatically shows that you are engaging in a deconstructive argument on things you cannot understand:
1. Everyone understands that 'it works for you', and ironically it is you who doesn't understand why it works for you. You are an atheist whether you realize it or not, it is also whether I like it or not. Christianity, faith, is what you were taught... Those of us you call atheists are people that have realized it or never been indoctrinated in any religion.
2. The real fact is "christ" hasn't done anything for you or through you, you are the one doing those things on your own. If you'd like to believe it is so be it, that's your opinion which only applies in fonzie world, not the rest of the world.
3. The "atheists" have a shared knowledge that not everything can be fully understood, but that the facts as we know them are understood and evolving without a need to "invent" things to fill in the blanks, or preocupy ourselves with silly questions such as "what's the meaning of life?"... you know those facts that apply to everyone, not just one person as that is called an 'opinion' (such as opinions which you attempt to present as fact). This does not mean atheists lack opinions, it just means atheists know when they are opinions and make an 'honest effort' to present it as such.
4. There is no "being meaningful to be an atheist", because every person is one. It's as if one where to ask "how meaningful is it to breathe air today?", it's not like you have a choice (not a choice you'd rationally give yourself)... "Atheism makes the world a better place" is a bit like saying having toenails makes the world a better place. Religion in the other hand is what needs to be proven as it is a compilation of claims to everyone, and not fact to everyone.
So there you go, will you make an 'honest effort' to understand?
Nothing is true, everything is permitted...
I have a question. Is there an unwritten rule that theists can only participate in one ridiculously long repeating thread? (ie caposkia & fonzie) Or is it that theists are just comfortable where they are and don't want anything to upset their little ordered world?
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
There's no rule (frankly, the way he's been allowed to go on, I don't think we have any rules whatsoever), he just doesn't want to leave his tread.
Fonzie in particular has made several statements about "this forum", so if he ever ventured outside of his thread, he'd be forced to admit he was simply making it all up.
That might be uncomfortable for him.
They have their own personal jesus and their own personal thread.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
I know I assed up that last thread but I'm doing this from my phone and I have a really hard time with the quote button.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
Rebecca,
I know we have eyes and want to see everything and hands and want to touch everything but we also have spirit - with spirit, faith or lack of faith applies. Faith is comparable to what I would call the most sophisticated physical sense, sight. With physical eyes you can see quick and how far? Stars, light years away? With the eyes of faith you can quickly see far too - from creation as described in Scripture, to present: God with us in Christ as described and currently experienced by me, or even see beyond death as described in Scripture. And if your eyes of faith are opened to Christ by God it could happen quick. That's the eyes of faith.
I would compare the idea of your desire for "proof" to how my humor is received here on this forum. If I call you "queen", to me it was just humor. To my enemies it was insult coming from a source to which nothing good or fun can be attributed. Which is fine, but just illustrating here...
As far as proof, to me our amazing hands are proof:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand
To others, that's no proof, they remain unimpressed. They attach a logic label and are cool to the design = Designer idea, and dismiss it completely without thought.
An example of the fact that the proof you are asking for wouldn't necessarily produce faith is found in Scripture several times. Jesus made a man born blind see but faith was not produced in all who witnessed. Then Jesus raised the dead and His enemies wanting to kill Him just viewed Him as a powerful problem and wondered how they would get rid of Him. They didn't realize He is the Messiah.
The fire of faith is ignited by the Word of God and the Spirit of God. If you were seeking faith for you to push everything back and honestly read the Bible, really work and sweat (I guess girls glow rather than sweat) faith could be produced. I have no doubt that if you were honestly seeking God determined to find Him if He's there you would find Him. It's not a door you open on your own however, or one you approach with an attitude - it's like you would approach a King or Queen, a real one.
The parables were stories Jesus told about ordinary things designed to ramp up people's thinking into spiritual things seen by the eyes of faith. With His enemies, those without faith, those walking in darkness and loving it - they had a similar effect as my humor on my enemies here. As you notice there's nothing I can say or do they like. Attitude is similarly involved in seeking God. If you are determined to not believe in God then nothing will impress you - not even Jesus raising the dead physically. Therefore you won't experience Jesus raising the spiritually dead by the new birth - which still happens today. I'm experiencing it. (there's the forum tweak of the day - for those ignorant of life in Christ to ridicule)
So people in other religions do not feel this "ignition" and sense of spirituality as you do.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
We have what now ?
No, it isn't. It is, in fact, the complete opposite of sight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith
No, your comparison was flawed from the start, so none of that applies.
Sorry.
You are going to compare two things that are completely unrelated again, aren't you ? Please don't.
What you are illustrating here is that you are paranoid, if you really think you have "enemies" here, and yet more delusion, if you think you have "humor".
Which is fine too, I guess.
Well, that might be because it isn't proof of your god, any more than it's proof of any other creator deity, which is something you would agree with as well.
So why did you even bring it up ?
Not so. In fact, many people here have expressed their sense of wonder, which still works without any religious motivation.
But here I go again, expecting you to read what people post. You really couldn't care less, could you ?
Considering the effort people on this forum have invested in explaining to you how evolution works (and I'm reminded in particular of Deludedgod's papers, re-written and dumbed down for your sole benefit, only to be completely ignored by your sweet self), it's downright ridiculous for you to claim it was dismissed "without thought".
But yeah, there I go yet again, expecting you to read posts that answer your questions.
Proof ? If you really have faith, you don't need any. Having faith, good ! Wanting proof, bad ! Only people who wanna kill the messiah want proof.
No wonder christians need stories to dress up that tired old "argument".
Well, you used words like "fire" and "spirit", and you're using capitals all over the place, so you must be right. Right ?
Studying the bible earnestly, honestly and repeatedly = Number one cause of atheism.
(I'll just mention again that it has also been established that your own knowledge of the bible is nothing to write home about)
Yes, make it sound like a fairytale. You are, after all, talking to a "girl", and they like that sort of thing, don't they ?
Sweetie, please stop embarrassing yourself. You have no "enemies", no matter how much you'd like to.
Uhm....Actually, you probably didn't notice it yourself (MAYBE I SHOULD USE CAPS ?), but in one of my last posts, I put a few quotes of yours I rather liked, where you yourself expressed liking our posts.
So what are you trying to pull here ?
...Oh, you're lying again. Right. Sorry to interrupt.
Actually, that would pretty much do it.
Every day, right ? About half and hour after you take your lithium ? That's the problem, you see. We're not allowed to take that stuff.
And as we all know, disagreeing with "fonzie" in any way, shape or form, is "ridicule".
You have strong arguments ? Pah, "ridicule" !
You've noticed he doesn't, and have explained this to him in the most subservient and polite way possible ? "Ridicule" !!! "Mocking" !!!
You point out he's been disagreeing with himself for the last three years ? "You just want to murder christ, don't you ?"
*sigh*
Okay, enough already.
Rebecca is going to figure you out soon, if she hasn't already, so let's just cut to the chase and get back to the question you just can't bring yourself to answer :
Why did you lie ?
We've been going back and forth on the notion that he's a poe.
Honestly, I don't think he is.
Nobody can be that bored.
is surprised to find we don't believe what he says and there's no baseless assertion he can contrive that will unharden our hearts and make us take Jesus in through the brambly thickets that have overgrown our lower ventricle. Love the adhom, Fonzie. We're just too evil and stupid to believe the crashingly obvious truth that jesus wants abandon his exciting existence creating multiverses and snuggle up to us in the back of god's station wagon.
Then there's the enemies lie. Like most christians, Fonzie needs to believe that we don't agree with him because we are dire enemies, not because what he is saying is silly. There's no doubt a human mental state where the best way to gain mind control is to tell a group of people they are under siege by the forces of darkness. Jews, blacks, atheists. Trouble is, Fonzie is the one who thinks we deserve to die, not the other way around. Personally, I think Fonzie should be sentenced to a four dollar hair cut and a lifetime subscription to New Scientist Magazine.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I'm a magazine editor, I like to pontificate. You'll notice I was talking to you, as well as to everyone, at various moments.
In any case, there is no actual proof of a god. You have this belief system you insist is correct based on the bible, a book that is not long on facts. You talk about this book like it's a truth unto itself. But it's simply not. It's not falsifiable.
And it doesn't matter who's idea the enemy originally was, you're the one preaching it here. "Those who are not for me are against me" is a bit weird. In response I'd say those who are actively against me are against me. Those who don't agree with me, well. We live in a confusing world and the only really honest intellectual position to take is that humans are not in a position to know a great deal yet. We can say tho' that religions are a mish-mash of myth and wishful thinking.
As for providing your thinking, I'd say it's fair to suggest you're an evangelical fundamentalist with a literal interpretation of bible and a strong leaning towards Calvary and the lessons of the New Testament. Please correct me - I'm not proud and would rather be right.
Anyway, Fonzie. About that haircut...
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
It's called experience. You see, he's already had the pleasure of trying to talk to you, and he noticed, as have we all, that our replies are not what you're here for.
So he might as well direct his comments to the general public, rather than exclusively to you.
That's a question that's been put to you many times as well. You never answered it. He just has.
You are aware you're making assumptions about him, in the same paragraph where you're accusing him of doing the same, right ? And you don't see the problem with that ?
And could you please explain, if you refuse to answer simple questions, constantly contradict yourself, and lie like it's going out of style, then how exactly is anyone supposed to devine your "thinking" ?
What else is there left to do, except to form an opinion based on three years worth of non-stop mobius preaching ?
Two problems with that : One, you aren't jesus. Two, there's no-one here who's "against", or even "not for" you.
The amount of effort and patience invested in you by almost every member of this forum is downright staggering. Tell me, do you have many "enemies" who do everything for you while you do nothing for them ? People who bend over backwards for you while you throw insults, lies and threats at them ?
And it would seem you have "enemies" who are in the habit of forgiving you for being dishonest and deceitful as well.
You know, if I had me some "enemies" like that, life would be a lot easier.
So no, no enemies here for you. And you really want some, don't you ?
"Faith" won't function without them ?
Or would it just be less fun ?
Ok well you lost me with the spititual eyes being a physical sense. That makes no sense at all. Don't get me wrong, I understand that you carry faith in jesus/god but in all honesty, that's not a physical sense. It's of the mind. Your metaphoric eyes of faith are just that. Metaphoric.
How is the idea of my so called desire for proof comparable to your so called humor? You call it humor, I call it being a smart ass. You took a comment I made " I'm the queen of smart ass " and showed me what a smart ass you can be. Do I care? Not really. It just proves that even christians such as yourself can't walk that fine line jesus/god wants them to. So Fonzie, let me get this straight. It's not ok to mock jesus/god but it's ok for his followers to mock other people. Great. I got it.
Notice you said " if he's there you would find him ". Don't you think if he was there everyone would know it? Some wouldn't have such a hard time finding him. If he wanted us to believe he would make himself so obvious we couldn't deny him. He hasn't done that so on to the next thing. You said " the parables were stories jesus told about ordinary things desined to ramp up peoples thinking into spiritual things seen by the eyes of faith". You just gave me proof of christianity being a mind game. Basically he took regular stories and elaborated them so that he could create a basic " rule tactic ".
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
Hey fonzie,
You don'w want people talking around you - cool.
Pay attention - this is for you.
I'd really like an honest response to my post #2028.
I'd dare you to do it but.... oh, why not.
Consider this a formal challenge - the gauntlet is at your feet.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
JcGadfly,
No, "words in my mouth" Gadfly it doesn't confuse me that you atheists are able to breath God's air, walk on God's earth, live in the tents that God has pitched you in, etc and not believe in God. Regardless of your regard for yourself you did not invent ignorance of things of faith. The available time is meant to lead you to repentance. You will remember God saying He's not slack concerning His promises, neither will He be mocked by you and your faithless functioners.
I'm glad you've figured out though what it is I've caught and who would have thought that you would also have the solution to the problem you've diagnosed! That's almost like... destiny. Seriously though, I'm glad I don't have to look for happiness from you or Walmart.
I've noticed too that atheists don't have a shared meaning of life. I'm actually still looking for a meaning at all.
Human beings all, that can adapt, pontificate, and pool your wrong views of life in Christ.
The journey of life, the ability to be happy and to love, confer a meaning on human existence you might not have been able to fathom on your own but which is clear to all of us. We love, care, respect, wonder, learn, anger and struggle in the same way you do. We just don't see events as reflecting acts of an interventionalist god.
The universe is unaware of us and we must do the best we can for ourselves and the people we love. You clearly cannot see it but being alone in the cosmos is a profound experience in and of itself. I keep using the term personal integrity around you and you keep ignoring it. Try to remember that humans are older than religion. Your dogma depends for its meaning on our shared humanity. Take away the dogma and the humanity is there, clean and bright as a winter morning.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
What choice do we have, if you won't answer simple questions, keep lying to us and contradicting yourself ?
If you're not confused, then why do you constantly contradict yourself, and why do you lie to us ?
Did he say he did ? No. So why are you saying it ? Please explain.
And btw, why do you call simple honesty "regard for yourself" ? That makes no sense in more ways than I can count.
Repentance for being honest ? Since when is that a sin ?
You can't mock something when you can't even prove it exists, and you can't recall a non-existent entity making any kind of statement.
But you get to "mock" whoever you like, right ?
Seriously, this guy's been with you for over three years, he's always treated you far better than you deserve, and now he still finds the energy and patience to reach out to you, and this is all you have ?
See, this is exactly why I've been discouraging people from trying to talk to you. You have no interest in an honest discussion. You just want to flaunt your imagined moral superiority.
I've noticed you lie a lot.
You asked us that question many times, and we always answered it. Last time was in #1849 and #1848, in case you're really "still looking"
And that's where the crowning irony of this farce comes into full effect :
You see, "fonzie", even if your god really exists, and if he plays by the rules you've been telling us about all this time, then he's going to like us a whole lot better than he likes you.
And you'll be going straight to hell.
For lying to atheists.