It works for me!
Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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Or in your case, by lying to people, which makes the rest of your post irrelevant.
Was there anything else ?
"The sheep know what they are hearing"
Excellent response.
Amen. This is, without a doubt, one of the most intelligent statements Fonzie has made in this thread. If only he could overcome his compartmentalization and comprehend what he's really saying.
He really is a perfect example of how one can be psychologically enslaved by their religion.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
robj101,
Again you mock what you don't understand. The LORD'S sheep know their Master's voice - the wicked are in this sense dumber than an ox. The ox knows his master. The wicked doesn't know the One Who made him.
Sheep are the most defenseless things ever........but you notice there are quite a few of them. It's because of shepherds. We have the Good Shepherd. He became the Lamb of God to be sacrificed for us. We know His Voice. His Spirit lives in us. Eternal life has started for us, in us. We are rejoicing on our journey to Him.
I think you know your master's voice too. The bus you're on goes over the cliff in the end. You should give notice and ship out.
So now "excellent response" qualifies as "mocking" ??
What isn't "mocking" ? Is there anything left ?
As for the sheep metaphor...sheep get eaten.
Funny how even your metaphors only work when you ignore reality.
Sheep will follow whatever is in front of them - ever heard of a Judas goat? Shepherds use them to get them to shearing and to slaughter. It keeps the sheep from connecting the shepherd with harm.
That's not defenseless - that's stupid.
Some Christians tend to be the same way. They follow the pastors and the "saints of the church" and believe they can do no wrong because they "see Christ living in them". There are probably still folks out there who think Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker were set up. I fear you are one of those who insist on favoring illusion in the face of loads of reality.
If my bus is going over the cliff, I have a really good chance of waving to your bus as we go over together.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Butterbattle,
I assume you have someone you have confidence in such that even if they said something you didn't understand you would still have confidence they were right in what they were telling you - you just had to understand it. If it's true you have somebody like this you could trust on certain subjects your faith cuts through your doubts though your understanding may have to catch up.
If you came to have this kind of confidence in God it could be expanded to all subjects and all doubts and questionings and uncertainties put to rest - though understanding might have to catch up, even to death.
You are enslaved by your choice overload, uncertainties, unanswered questions, unknowns and unfocused trust. In the issues of life it's like you are looking at Sherwin Williams' color choices and trying to cover the earth in the right colors. For me it's simple (though you disdain it too simple for you) - e.g. Jesus is LORD, God is God, His Word is Truth and I have been re-born in Him, His Spirit Lives in me, along with my spirit. I share in everything that Jesus won by His great victory, including His Resurrection from Death - the Death of Death. I share in His now Indestructible Life. I don't have a broad, confusing, undefined path (as you define freedom), I find relief from that unfocused approach and true freedom in the narrow path of following the Way, the Truth and the Life - just listening to Jesus on the issues of Life.
I know what you mean by compartmentalization but I live in a one room tent - it's warm, bright, portable. There are no compartments. All is One. It's just hard to knock on a tent I've noticed, so just yell. I'm in here and I'm having fun.
Have all the fun you want here Fonzie, despite your obtuse wishful thinking, we do want you here.
Having said that, you have absolutely ZERO evidence for your magical invisible super hero in the sky. There is no such thing as a disembodied brain with magical super powers. It wasn't true when the Egyptians thought the sun was a thinking being with super powers and you have much less evidence for your invisible friend than they did.
Your super hero is nothing but your own credulity in your own head an nothing more. You merely like the idea of a magical super protector swooping you off the train tracks who vanquishes the villain. There was never a super hero for humanity and never will be.
When our species goes extinct your god will be as remembered then as Allah or Thor was 1 billion years go. It is made up crap humans like filling in gaps with, and you are no different.
You rightfully reject the god claims of others but are unwilling to aim that same logic at your own claims. You think you are different, but you are not.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Fonzie,
It's interesting that you attempt to compare your God to the specialists that we call on to supplement our knowledge.
Let's look at some of the things you decided to skip over in your comparison.
Specialists say things like " You don't have to take my word for it - look it up and research it for yourself. Here are the sources I used."
Your God says "Trust me - I give you my word. You don't have to look for yourself. In fact I forbid it".
Specialists open the floor for questions. Your God considers questioning sinful.
Specialists welcome new approaches. Your God only has his way and he will condemn you if you even think about innovating.
I am glad that you enjoy the"freedom" of continually looking over your shoulder and hoping that you've been strong enough in your faith. I'm glad you can deal with the pressure of making sure you give God full credit for all the things you did.
Why do you accuse us of being enslaved while bragging about your own bonds? Why are you bragging about not having to think during your time on this planet?
Thinking separates us from the animals - why are you happy to go backwards?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Hi Butterbattle, Fonzie, and others subscribed to this thread,
I am not totally sure what all has gone into this thread, I just saw this thread for the first time today, but I have heard about it awhile back from a friend. I didn't really want to get involved, and after I post some might thank me for not posting again. But, I have 3 things to say, but I am really only saying 1 thing.
1) I am a Thiest - which is the 1 thing I am really saying in these next 3 things
A) Jesus says there are 2 greatest commandments 1) Love God 2) Love People, everything else falls under one of those two. That is in the book of Matthew, you can find it, go as your experts say, go and check into it yourself. Now he says a ton of stuff in the "Gospels," I quote that because that is the nickname for them. But what it all boils down to is these 2 commandments, check it out for yourself. It is very simple. Church/God or whatever you want to call it (Pschosis/Mental Disorder/Serving a whim), is much more than what you might call it. More importantly God is very simple, those two things.
B) There are really 2 teams unfortunately. Theists and Athiests. Just like republicans and democrats, Yankees or Red Sox, only these two teams are much more important. I believe these teams decide things. Nobody will get you to join their team, that is IMPOSSIBLE. Check it out, only God picks teammates and team. Like that great acquisition where Lebron James went to the Miami Heat. Maybe any of you would be comparable to that type, but nobody is going to talk anyone into being on the Theist team. Nobody talked me into it. I rejected it for years, but dark and light, man I saw there was no other way. God is real, and I have no doubt.
C) I know I am speaking to intelligent people, but my philosophy is simple so that is what I deliver. You may not like it or you may like it. But I would like you to answer some questions if you want to engage my post.
Questions -
1) Do you see there as two teams, athiests and theists?
2) Do you believe that Jesus says there are 2 greatest commandments and that everything else falls under them?
3) Is God/Church really as simple as I have communicated? If so, why? If not, why?
4) Is this the goal of this site? Theist on the left?
By the way, Admins, you have done a remarkable job with the text editor and features of this site since 3 years ago when I posted last!!!
Upside
Upside
Actually, I think you already were. I'm pretty sure I recognise your avatar pic. Did you post in a thread called "WHAT FAITH YOU" ? If that was you, well, "Fonzie" is the guy who started that thread as well. He had get a new account here, as the first one got slapped with a troll badge.
If you stick around, it will become depressingly clear why that happened.
(Or you could save yourself some time and read a few pages of this thread)
No.
No.
I'm an atheist. Simple or complicated, I don't buy religion.
No.
If that question is inspired by people sometimes losing their temper around Fonzie, then I really must urge you to read the whole thread, so you can find out why that is, after which you will congratulate us on our patience and civility.
If you can find a smiley that's trying to convince another smiley to get a bloodtest, so his anti-psychotic medication won't end up making his condition even worse, then yeah, it would be the theist on the left. (Replace hammer with puzzled expression)
Btw, can I ask a question too ?
Why did you post that in this thread ? Why not start a new one ?
Fonzie already lied to us several times, in ways so obvious and shameless as to make any further discussion less than useless. This is basically a pity thread. (If we ignore him, he starts bumping his thread by re-replying to posts made over two years ago )
Oh well, it's too late now. Enjoy.
Ah, so it was you ! I knew I recognised that pic. Welcome back.
edit : If anyone wants to read Upside's earlier contributions to Fonzie-ism, his posts start at #247 in the WHAT FAITH YOU thread.
Okay, let's see what fallacies Fonzie committed. Question begging. Check. Appeal to authority. Check. Fallacy of equivocation, conflating contingent trust with religious faith. Check. Equating open-mindedness with being mentally enslaved, essentially an oxymoron. Check. Naked assertions, incoherent analogies, what else is new?
Ooohh, questions.
Well, define 'teams.' There are atheists and theists, and they do argue with each other a lot.
No. I need evidence that someone named Jesus existed and said that.
No.
Because Christians don't perfectly follow just the rules of love others and love yourself. They never have. They never will.
Lol.
Naturally, that does happen quite a bit, but that is not the intent. At least, it shouldn't be. We want to educate and understand each other, not just enact intellectual smackdowns. That is what I try to do, even if I often fail at it.
Case in point, Fonzie is so ignorant and delusional that I really want to just post a flurry of condescending remarks, but I must resist the urge. Oh my God, look at the beginning of this post. I already failed. Dang.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Butterbattle,
I see you have shook your eloquent stick at my post - a good sampler of what is "falsely called knowledge" in the greater and dismissive "labeling and boxing" for shipment in the specific. Creative justification of non answer. Check. High flier turd landing attitude confirmation. Check. Flagrant distraction flame arrow throwing with irony death trailer package. Check. Lip - led earth strutting as if deed - possessing and ground defending like the bramble bush in Lebanon's forest just before TKO'ed by wild boar. Check. What else is new?
Any old fool can personally attack the messenger rather than answer the issues - just label, box and ship. Do you run a shift on the labeling machine here? Is the same stuff in each can regardless of label? (no thanks)
My post talked about the principle that faith cuts through uncertainties, doubts and questionings. It's reasonable this would work if you had a God, The God, Who you had complete confidence in, Who always told it like it is, Who had proved Himself in every way. This isn't a fallacy of equivocation comparing it to someone you have a measure of confidence in - don't you have any such confidence? Or has this canned product all come from you?
Why don't you - instead of firing up your label machine - start from the first and tell me what your life meaning and purpose is founded on and why. Then go on and describe how your approach cuts through all the chaff of life and gets to the substance. Then tell me where your life goes from here and what your confidence concerning that is. Explain how you apply that to every aspect of your life - the principle behind your dynamic. And where did you get this and how do you know it's true? I'm not asking you to do anything I have not done here - before all. The fact that it has been distorted, labeled, libeled, and dismissed doesn't change the fact that I have given my reasons, principles and also Cornerstone, which I didn't get from myself but from God. Do you admit by your muddied approach that you come up wanting on these things, that neither life nor death mean anything to you?
No, you're just asking him to do something he's already done here. More than once. You do this to everybody who regularly posts here.
Just out of curiosity, why do you want him to do it yet again ?
Don't you remember him ?
I'll help. This is you to him :
That's post 1256, I believe. Before and after that, you guys cover the same ground, and that wasn't even the first or the last time !!
Now look, if this memory problem is somehow connected to your current mental condition, fair enough, but you have to tell us if that's the case, otherwise, it just feels like you're jerking us around.
And please, try to remember this at least : Just because you didn't like the answers you were given, that doesn't mean the question was never answered.
Okay ?
Anonymouse,
I know you have expressed concerns about my mental state in your struggle with yours. If it would help (and I think this is something I'm repeating for you too) I would release you from any responsibility of those concerns with me that interfere with your sense of well-being.
Don't you have confidence that others can answer the posts addressed to them? Why do you insult your no-faith brethren? And what committee rewired your mental state to make you feel compelled to thrust yourself into every conversation? (and kind of funny for you to be irritated by repetition but ha ha). I have repeated my faith here because I'm excited about it - maybe there's an aspect to butterbattle's excited lack of faith that I've missed. And don't let it concern you - because it doesn't. In fact, don't let anything concern you because it seems everything does - and goes untreated. There's a whole world out there for you to apply your lack of faith to - so apply away and don't worry about me because I know God and Christ and the Power of His Resurrection and the abundant life in Him.
And, also don't worry - your attitude and message to me has come through loud and clear. (maybe one of the top 10 things that don't concern me) - so be happy without what you don't want anyway. It shouldn't concern you that what you don't want is being given by God to those who do.
Okay?
Nice try, fonzie.
Spoken like a true addict.
Instead of giving a yes or no answer to a simple question of "Are you keeping tabs on your lithium levels by having a doctor do blood work?" you say "You don't need to be concerned about me, stop asking OK"
See, we're not Christians. Caring about other people isn't an option. Especially when that person has given evidences of an erratic mental state. We don't just say "I'll pray that God helps you" and think we've done something.
As for other posters, not only is there confidence that they can answer the questions you put to them, there is evidence they have answered your questions. the fact that you insist they haven't is either an indication of something impairing your mental state or of you being a jackass.
Personally, I'm glad that you think your version of Christianity works for you. I wouldn't mind having something like that at times but I have this annoying habit of asking "Why?" and wanting to know what's behind all the curtains. I'd like a god that would nurture that aspect rather than stifle it. Your version of God fears that type of person - can you tell me why?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Nope. I expressed my concern due to my experiences with loved ones who suffer from the same psychiatric problems that you do.
As I have told you several times, taking lithium, even very small amounts, without weekly bloodtests is not without it's dangers at your age.
I realise that in the US this may be a financial issue, but if it's at all possible, I would urge you to start the regular bloodtests as soon as possible.
I've been taking care of people in your situation since I was 11. I can't just switch off my common sense and empathy.
Sure. But it's always possible that they don't remember already having answered your questions. Remember, you still haven't mustered the honesty to admit you had a 1000+ thread like this before this one, where you basically asked the same questions and got answers as well.
There's no faith needed (that's been explained ad nauseam to you as well), these guys are not my "brethren", and if they're insulted by me, I'm quite sure I'll hear about it from them.
Well, as I have explained to you before, there really is no "conversation" as long as you keep lying to us, and that needs to be resolved before any conversation can take place.
Hence my question, unanswered for a full year now : Why did you lie ?
Or do you really not understand why someone might object to being lied to ?
Is it ? Whatever tickles your funnybone, I guess.
Yeah, I noticed that. So why not just re-read what he already said, in one of his many conversations with you in this thread, instead of making him re-type the same stuff all over again ?
Seriously, why do you keep doing that ?
I'm afraid it does. I've always been mystified by people who think lying is an acceptable form of communication. I want to know why they do it.
You seem hesitant to tell me.
I'm sensing you'd like me to leave your thread. No problem, just reveal why you've been so dishonest with us. That's all I want to know.
I'm not worried about things that don't actually exist. That would be a neverending waste of time and energy. I'm worried about you thinking you're doing us a favor by lying to us, I'm worried about you apparently not being able to take regular bloodtests, which makes me think about the abysmal situation most psychiatric patients in your country find themselves in. Your behaviour here isn't exactly putting my mind at rest.
If it did, then this would have been over a year ago, so no.
Well, since I've been mostly quoting your own words back at you, I'm not really surprised.
Like I said, things that don't exist don't concern me. See above for what does.
No, not okay. Not by a longshot.
If you could just explain why you've been lying to us, I'd be very much obliged.
Why are you insulting me, Anonymouse? I already had the perfect counterarguments to "high flier turd landing attitude confirmation." and "flagrant distraction flame arrow throwing with irony death trailer package." and "Lip - led earth strutting as if deed - possessing and ground defending like the bramble bush in Lebanon's forest just before TKO'ed by wild boar."
I am so excited about my lack of faith, the relationship I don't have with Jesus, and how I don't pray to God every night that I can barely contain myself Fonzie.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
butterbattle,
Well I wasn't meaning to discourage you but yes rather to lift you up. You have been stung, but kindly lift your eyes up to the bronze serpent on the stick in faith and be healed.
Sometimes you just need some spiritual candy to suck on and here it is: the presence of God. "I will be with you" "I have been with you" "I am with you". This is a great thing for you to dream about butterbattle - something you don't have, something you could have, something your father doesn't want you to have (you can apply your rebellious juices to that along with the insults of your no faith brethren).
So yes, get all the whatever out of the way and let me hear about the joys of your lack of faith, your emptiness therewith, your not having the All in All, your not being lit in your being, your talking by yourself to yourself and expecting answers from yourself.
Let praises of lack of faith ring! Bring out the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe and every kind of music and expound the wonders of your self - (or whatever) worship!
I'm sure if there is any joy or excitement to it I have missed it being an unobservant sort.
Hey, wait a sec....
You mean that after all these years, after devoting a whole thread to it, you're finally admitting that atheism doesn't require faith ??
Oh wow....
And here I was thinking that talking to you was a waste of time. You actually learned something !!
Funny you should mention the bronze serpent, fonzie.
Do you remember what happened later? 2 Kings 18 says Hezekiah had to destroy it.
Why? Because the people began worshiping it. It seems that as a civilization progresses they need more than just a story to worship.
Fortunately for God, there are always leaders willing to take people backward in his name.
As for the promises you cited, I'm glad you realize what they are - sweets to keep the kiddies pacified instead of giving them real food.
I love how you jump to an accusation of self worship among non-believers. Are you mad that we actually think we're worth something without needing you and your God to tell us so? Is that a little covetousness I see? Are you jealous that we know that we can go get the things we need and want instead of asking for magic to drop it in our laps and brag about persevering through the "tough times" when we don't get it?
You claim we're empty but you want what we have so badly you can almost taste it. What happened to "It works for me"?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Naw, he's just contradicting himself.
It's not even a concession. It's just another insult. See, look:
Fonzie says we have faith.
Translations:
- See, you're just like me!
- You believe in atheism dogmatically and without any evidence.
- My God is Jesus Christ, our lord and savior. Your God is trivial pursuits with weird numbers and stuff.
Fonzie says we don't have faith.
Translations:
- You're all lost souls.
- You've rebelled against your creator.
- You have no trust in anybody. Your infatuation with cold, cold, cold rational thinking leaves you hopeless, loveless, sad, and devoid of life.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Butterbattle,
Did we forget we were about to give a treatise on the joys of non-faith atheism? Hmmmm? Or however you want to describe it - no faith, faith in yourself, anything but saving faith in Jesus.
So you throw up another distraction rather than do that. Later Anonymouse will say you just did.
So again, Butterbattle, what are the many splendored joys of being an atheist. Is it based on anything deeper than mischaracterization of Christianity? Does atheistic joy last any longer than the crackle of thorns under the pot?
No, though Anonymouse has a hallucination of the atheist hall of fame attraction tour it has never been, never will be. Oh sure he'll take a pull quote out of context and shoot his deceitful bow, but that's just who he is - but the atheist x-factor, the depth, the draw has never been.
The sense of where the atheist has come from and is going to is from "hello" to "goodbye", end of story, no meaning in the "to" either.
joy is a figment of his imagination. He has a relationship with an idea in his head and contrives to give this meaning.
And he says our lives have no meaning. Again fonzie shows the filth at the core of his being.
Life has meaning but that meaning is not about you and your fairy godfather, fonzie, you halfwit.
It's so obvious the core element of the christian person is relentless self focus to the exclusion of all.
I'm sure in this case Fonzie's cognitive blindspot has 2 bands of tightly clenched circular muscle.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
The way it works is that your pea-brained religion is based on a mischaracterization of universal elements of humanity.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Did you forget to reply to about 500 unanswered posts in your own thread ? Forget to answer a year-old question ? Didn't notice JC's questions ? Forgot to adress his arguments, no matter how many times he's forced to repeat them ? Did you miss the christians posting here, only to distance themselves and their faith from you as far as possible ? Did you forget how many months it took you to answer even one of Butter's questions ? Did you forget you only answered it when someone else repeated the same question ? Did you forget you explained this by complaining about "the tone of voice you looked with" ? Did you not notice your own posts, happily contradicting yourself, and not even caring ?
This could go on for a while...
If you want to know what anonymouse said, you can read anonymouse's posts. Then you won't have to make stuff up.
He already told you he likes the direction his life is going (# 204). As for christianity, you guys were discussing that at the same time.
So again, why not just re-read those posts ?
Why ask him to do it again ?
Anonymouse can read. He's starting to wonder why he bothers.
Uhm...you and Butter talked for longer than just one quote. Couple of pages at least. I already invited you to re-read the whole thing, so why are you lying again ?
As for your other quotes, go ahead and read the context. Then explain how it changes what you already said. Well ? I'm waiting.
Why do you keep accusing me of things I never did ? When I call you a liar, I provide proof. You never do. You just insult me. Do you enjoy that, or is it just out of fear ?
You're not an atheist, so you can't know, and you don't care about our answers, even when you say you do.
So what are you talking about ?
So when in this thread, you thanked people for explaining their atheism to you, and you said you thought you understood, even enjoyed trying to understand it, you were just lying ?
Or it was just another heavily veiled insult ?
Well ?
Post #204!?!?
*checks post #204*
Eeeww, I'm not as knowledgeable on the issues, and I'm trying to have a serious discussion with Fonzie.
Btw, what are the joys of atheism? I love reading my atheist Bible, talking with atheist Jesus, and praying to the atheist God. That's what Fonzie believes; so obvously, that must be what I believe, since all instances of projection are automatically justified.
How about you, anonymouse? If you don't have a plethora of joys that Fonzie can't have, then God exists. Lol.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Oh, you've had several. Fear my freakishly accurate memory.
Shrimp ? Shrimp are tasty.
Lol. Atheist Jesus wants me for an atheist sunbeam. Gives me a migraine just thinking about it.
A plethora, El Guapo ? Yes, I have a plethora. (Gawd, I'm such a geek)
Now excuse me while I make hot, steaming atheism to my christian boyfriend.
Dammit.
I had two full length, bang my head against a wall, honest discussions and several other less serious talks, if I remember correctly.
Ah, yes, but that's not a joy of atheism, is it? Christians eat shrimp too. Screw the Bible.
Lol. El Guapo? Is that a reference to something? Cause if it is, I'm not getting it.
BLasPhemy!!!!!!!!111111oneone
Actually, come to think of it, can it be argued that really hot sex is a joy of atheism?
God hates sex, man. He wants to chop off my penis (well, part of it).
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
That settles it then. Both christians and atheists enjoy blasphemy. We're all...uhm..brethren. Yay.
Oh, so you're a philistine as well, are you ? Never seen Three Amigos ? Here, have some slightly racist comedy gold :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mTUmczVdik&feature=related
Dude, that movie has Randy Newman as a singing bush. Now that's some classy blasphemy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yNV-GXoeCM
It's a shared joy, man. Okay, he shouts "Oh god" a lot, but I take that as a compliment. Feel free to shut me up now.
I've had that bit chopped off, and I have to say it really enhances....Yeah, I'm shutting up now.
Might as well all just stop arguing and have a group hug.
You like shrimp, Fonzie? Cajun shrimp alfredo? Shrimp dumplings? Shrimp sushi? Shrimp cocktail?
Hahahahahahahaha. Plethora.
Yeah, I have seen The Three Amigos, but I was in like elementary school when I watched it. I only understood about half of the jokes and references at the time.
Lol, well, casually exclaiming "Oh god" is much more an insult to God than an act of worship. Not only are you taking his name in vain, but you're also putting it on par with a dozen other outbursts that don't mention God at all, like: oh shit, oh crap, oh wow.
Really? My stepdad told me the same thing...because you rub the end of it on stuff.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Yeah, let's fry up some scampi and bond.
*opens bag of Nong Shim Shrimp Crackers and offers one to Fonzie*
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Atheistextremist,
It's a great gift God has given us - a piece of ground to develop, live in, live on, think, dream, test, try. We can clear it and plant good things which require certain things to support and encourage - and we can eventually enjoy the fruit of sensible effort.
On the other hand our dreams can be destructive dreams. Our approach to the inheritance can be flippant. We can just tear around on our piece of ground with a four-wheeler, tearing up the ground (and the four-wheeler) if that's what we want and dream. But the results are not a bin full of substance. The results could just be the debris from the party strewn over the land.
The "party-er-s" might have contempt for the dull approach: fenced land, careful planting, cultivating - appreciation of the gift of the land.
The dull farmer might have no interest in the wasted party scene. He might enjoy the dull business of raising a crop. The "party-er-s" might assume the farmer has contempt for them - but that is not necessarily the case.
So there are different things enjoyed by different people and different results. The "party-er-s" shouldn't assume what they view as the "dull approach" is as they view it. They are showing what sense their view makes by what they are doing - thus the value of their view.
You just proved AE's point, "Fonzie".
Saves us the trouble, I guess.
Well, if there's nothing else, then I guess you're done.
We'll miss you.
Now you're invoking the anthropic principle? For a planet God made for little old us, there sure is an awful lot of it we can't use.
As for tearing across the ground with the 4-wheeler, that's the Christian attitude. You know, "have dominion over the earth and subdue it".
Isn't it odd that the picture you're trying to paint is not what the Christian life is?
See, God can tell you do something that was earlier considered sinful and that restriction is gone for you. You can also throw off those restrictions and do what you desire as long as you ask forgiveness afterward.
Isn't it wonderful? You could be a serial killer but as long as you asked forgiveness for the murder one more time than you killed - your slate is clean and you get to go to heaven with your Savior.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Doing what's right feels no different for an atheist and there is a more profound demand for behaving well. Humans are less forgiving of themselves than christians claim. I think in some ways god is an escape hatch for human error, a cop-out from legitimate and instructive guilt. I still feel pain over errors that are decades old and as a grown-up the chance I would risk those feelings of guilt, shame and failure through repeating my errors is zero.
But calvary lets god people start out fresh and guilt free every morning with no regrets. No wonder they all love jesus so much. He takes the place of an actual functioning shame-inducing morality.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp_RHnQ-jgU
Thanks, Fonzie. I do enjoy Handel. You have to agree tho', that the uplift of human music isn't a supernatural phenomenon. Nor is the bovine propensity to sing along with the herd.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Atheistextremist,
This is an interesting statement you've made here. You paint a picture of atheist actions fueled by guilt. That DOES feel different than a servant of Christ's doing good. You have heard (or read) the statement of Jesus - "you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free" - guilt is a great thing to be free from for one thing, true, but not just guilt scars and sores on the conscience but actions that are "guilt fueled". Those actions have a selfish motive at the base and don't satisfy. Those actions that are stemming from guilt to "pay" for guilt are misguided and futile and - yes - Jesus' sacrificial death does free us from that guilt and our consciences can be lanced and healed in the Blood of the Lamb - what's wrong with that? You seem to assume it logical that the Christian would vomit then want to go on eating the vomit like a dog - I mean that you would want to be freed from this only to have the "fun??" of going back to it. If your eyes are truly opened to the Cross of Christ you will hate sin.
If you don't have your sins washed away in the Blood of the Lamb I don't know what else a thinking and conscientious guy will do with the guilt. You could "fool yourself" and think your good action does pay for the guilt - which would be a false state, or you could eventually get your conscience covered with scar tissue so you don't have any compass at all. To pursue paying for your own guilt is - true - a heavy burden, a discouraging effort, an impossible task.
You may also have the impression that to do things in gratitude and for the glory of Christ causes poorer acts and even laziness. The acts are not poorer in quality because the motive is not selfish, neither are the examples of followers of Christ I see in the Scriptures or around me lazy.
and guilt serves a purpose. I don't think you can undo your mistakes or pay for them. Once they are out there, there they are. You can apologise to the person you hurt. I do think it is possible to use a mistake to fuel positive actions. These feelings are unquestionably checks and balances that work in the same general way as the good feelings you get when being with friends and family, one lot of feelings holds you back from doing wrong while the good feelings encourage you to spend time in the safety of those who will most likely look after you if required.
I'm not sure being washed in the blood of the lamb is going to change anything. I always continued to feel guilt after pleading to god for mercy anyway. Human feelings are older than god.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
You can do whatever the heck you like, just as long as you take a dip in blood afterwards....
...and you ask what's wrong with that ?
You tell me Fonzie, what's wrong with being able to commit what your God calls sins without guilt?
That's what forgiveness grants you (but I suspect you know that and use it to your advantage)
Must be nice to have the freedom to follow no rules (including God's). I'd think God would get tired of having hypocrites around him. I'd like to think that Jesus would get tired of having to keep bleeding for you pinheads. But I guess that's what happens when you make a god in your image - he's ready-made to let you slide.
Or is it the reward points that makes you do good for others? Trying to rack up enough points so your place in Heaven can be better than the rest of the Christians? That's another reason why I left religion - the constant drive for stats. People became attendance numbers and resource generators.
Take an honest look at why you do this, Fonzie. Is it truly unselfish or do you go tell you friends that you've been having this long "witnessing session" with this group of "evil atheists" and bragging about how many brownie points God is giving you?
You write of guilt scars and sores on our consciences - are you bragging about how your conscience is seared to any human feeling or are you jealous that we can still feel?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
JcGadfly,
Your first question I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking me what's wrong with you atheists doing what God (or my God as you say) calls sin? What's wrong with it is between you and God if this is what you are asking.
Forgiveness is a great gift - in fact, that's the only way it can be had. I do use it to my advantage - you could too. It's there for you to have. It's a huge debt paid off for you, one you could never pay. That is an advantage and I'm taking it - hopefully to the fullest. But not as a license to sin as you imply. This would be a perversion of grace. I thought you claimed to be a Bible scholar. "Shall we do evil that grace may abound?"
You don't think Jesus is real yet you're an expert on what faith in Him is - from His side and from the servant's side. Not only that, you also know the secret motives of the heart of the believer. You left, so you know. You know why they do it, stats or whatever - that's why you left.
Why I do this? The reason I do this is that I saw teenagers encouraged to take "the blasphemy challenge" and I traced it back to the leaders of this web-site. I came here because I read about people like you that either started believing in Jesus and quit - or didn't believe in Jesus and discovered they didn't. I, unlike you, don't know the motive of their heart.
Then they proceeded to proclaim that there is nothing to salvation in Christ - nothing to walking with Jesus in faith, etc. They quit or never started and then say since it doesn't work for them it's not real. They are all knowing about that - like you. I say you're totally wrong. I have no doubts. You have spewed nothing here that flicks anything of that in any way. You just show your ignorance and inability to understand even the post above.
I came here to honestly say that it does work for me. I haven't quit nor seen any reason to quit. Walking by faith in Christ gets better and brighter every day. It's that simple.
Conscience. I mentioned that the scars, wounds, boils on conscience can be healed in the blood of the Lamb. Those things can be brought to Jesus, opened, and healed. I am bragging about the LORD on this, not myself.
I can tell you feel things. I'm not jealous.
in learning more about this, Fonzie...
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I can't imagine my life without oxygen, cause I need it to breathe! You're basing your existence on nothing, you don't need to believe in an imaginary character to
get through your life, or day, you are living without this jesus thing everyday and everything you do is because of YOU, not because of something/someone living in the clouds..
/gigglesnort
Yes, I do believe you are fooling yourself, you are not really happy and yes, I don't believe that you can be as happy or as enlightened as the rest of us, because you are sir, are
delusional. What would be a better offer, as you asked, than being you because of you and living your life how you want to live and what feels right to you, not basing it on
what some book says you have to do.... I don't go around looking for rabbits because I think Alice in Wonderland is true, cause that's another fictional book! But if you wanna
keep chasing that 'rabbit' then go for it, because you're only fooling yourself.
"Only sheep need a shepherd" - anonymous ?
"Under Christianity neither morality nor religion has any point of contact with actuality. It offers purely imaginary causes and purely imaginary effects" - Nietzsche
Curious...on what basis do you experience guilt? This question is an attempt to be smart or flippant. Since an atheist would not subscribe to the moral law stated in the Bible, where's the foundation of right/wrong? As an atheist, do I come up with my own set of values/ethics/morals? If so, do all atheists subscribe to those or are you all different?
I agree with you AE, you cannot undo mistakes or pay for them. Once they are out there, they remain. All that is left IMO is the human element that deals with them. That element could be some humanistic grace that says, "Oh, don't worry about it, I wasn't hurt/offended", and just blows it off, or there could be acknowledgment of the hurt and some agreement of reconciliation, or irreconcilable differences, or I just pull out my magnum and put a big hole in that person.
I believe good can be achieved from error, to the one that erred or to the other party or the situation. However, what is good? And for that matter,what is bad? How are they differentiated when there's no standard moral law on which to judge. For one person, such as a gang - murder is accepted, an honor, and is good for those that perform it whether by initiation or by offing another rival gang member, yet for me, murder is bad - are we both right?
In the Bible, we learn that it is the 'blood' that atones. In the OT it is from a spotless, perfect animal. As we have spoken earlier, in Passover it is a lamb. Also, as we have discussed before, in the NT Jesus is 'that' lamb. Now, do I physically wash myself in His blood? No, I can't. I can't make it materialize - so it must have a 'spiritual' element. In the NT, when one calls on the name of the Lord (he shall be saved), the God of the Bible now sees that person through the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ. So all God really sees is His child (who has called on His name) washed in His Son's blood which makes us really look as white as snow (or spotless). The blood is imputed to those who believe. Righteousness, also, is imputed to the believer as we really cannot make that claim. If we could, there would be no guilt, conviction, condemnation, and we could stand on our own without anyone stepping in. Guilt for a Christian is 'conviction', i.e., I'm convicted about my error; however, I do not sense condemnation (as Judas did). I must respond to the conviction. The response is repentance, upon such an act is forgiveness and reconciliation.
As you mentioned before in earlier conversations, given the chance that your life could save the world - you would offer it, and so would I. However, the Bible tells us we don't have to do that, it is already accomplished. All that remains is faith and walking in it.
Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend.
Well, asking you directly is a waste of time, since you have no intention of answering any question that lays bare your hypocrisy.
It's been a year, and you still haven't told us why you lied.
It's like you never read a single one of his posts, and are proud of it as well.
Oh, the irony.
That's how I found this place. I never took the "challenge". Didn't see the point.
In fact, I never saw the point of atheism, never mind openly identifying yourself as one.
And then I met you.
Read your posts.
Saw how you treated the people who tried to talk to you.
Never in my life had I seen such a shamelessly dishonest person. You actually managed to shock me a few times with your casual lies and viscious remarks.
In short, you, and you alone, opened my eyes.
They told you, and you said you understood, so why are you still here ?
If they were "all-knowing", they wouldn't bother asking you questions. 55 unanswered posts in only 4 pages, and that's not even your record.
So what you're asserting here is simply not true, and that can be verified by reading this thread.
Which is something you apparently don't like to do.
He doesn't have to. You do that.
Uhm, you opened your reply by saying you didn't understand his question.
Btw, JC has consistenly shown that his knowledge and understanding of the bible is far superior to yours. Again, read the thread.
If it does, then why do you need to lie ?
A simple question. So far, no honest answer from you, so no, it doesn't work.
Nobody's even been trying to get you to quit. Would you like them to ?
But you're not walking "in christ". JC has pointed that out many times, and he's backed up his opinion with arguments you have yet to acknowledge.
Simple ? Well, as long as you keep lying to us, then yeah, I guess that makes everything nice and simple for you.
Unless you're able to express what that means in a real situation, that's just pretentious, selfrighteous nonsense.
Shifting the blame isn't a nice or mature thing to do, "Fonzie".
What's that supposed to mean ? You're not jealous of people who feel things ? Uhm...okay.
Well, in the light of your psychiatric condition, that's actually not very surprising. A certain amount of emotional flatlining can be expected.
I really hope you will someday be able to afford decent treatment. Like my mom. She's doing a lot better, btw.
Isn't that mostly just secular morality with a fancy new brand name, plus some stuff that doesn't make any sense ?
Photo above is from the USA Supreme Court Door. It seems that our forefathers of this great country thought the 10 Commandments were a good foundation to build on. Suggesting that the decalogue is secular morality is an interesting concept. Are you suggesting that if you were ruler for a day you would have come up with at least 6 of these (5-10)?
Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend.