Again, scripture is complete and utter bullshit.

ms,

You remind me of Harold on Red Green wanting to be the front of the horse.

mephibosheth

Nikolaj, thanks for writing that Rational Response ! Take it to the limit , wait, what limit?    How LOUD can we get? .... well,  louder than hell  .....

    "Save" them Xains, for god sakes, god funking damn it ! 

Well, thank you kindly I am God as you. And may I add, nice to meet you. I've seen many of your posts here, but have only just started posting myself, but let me say, you, my friend, are a breath of fresh air. I am God as you too

Actually, he's quite right. For you to imply that his understanding of your religion is somehow inferior to yours, you're going to need stronger evidence than just your say-so.

Once again, no, it is not, and it does not. Please read the first few pages again. I am quite willing to point you to specific posts if this is too much trouble for you.

This is an interesting claim. Please show me where in the thread this occurs.

So it's your word against that of the ex-christians on this board. Please explain why we should believe you and not them.

You are now accusing all the ex-christians on this board of lying. Please present proof that these people are indeed lying.

Or were you just being rude for the fun of it ?

Unless that story mentions you by name as the guy who DOES know, you're still left with the same questions. Why is your experience with christianity the only one of any significance ? It's not only the ex-christians you claim to be superior to, but also the christian factions who have no problem with evolution and the big bang. You're putting yourself on a pedestal, sir. Only you hold the truth, only you can interpret scripture correctly, etc..

You forget, sir, that you also put yourself above people who don't believe in Christ in exactly the way you want them to.
As JC mentioned before, you're going to be really lonely in heaven.

Indeed, a very poor comparison. Also, common sense will tell you that getting divorced can sometimes be a blessing. Well, that's reality for you.

No sir, it is not reasonable for you to say so. Anyone's personal interpretation of Christ and the bible is just as credible as yours.
You have yet to demonstrate exactly why you are the one who holds the truth.

I don't know which picture you are referring to. I do however remember seeing a documentary, where an image was shown of what a Jewish man of Jesus' age, living at that time, would have looked like. It was quite amusing to see how many Christians immediately and strongly rejected the idea of him having dark skin and curly hair.

And you have no way of knowing what people "are" or "aren't".

My father's the devil ? That explains why he won't let me drive his car then.

Kidding aside, I'm glad you brought up the devil again, because that's a concept that's going to blow up in your face every time you try to use it.
Creating such a powerful magical being is a really stupid thing to do. I mean, if he's powerful enough to influence people's interpretation of christianity, like you say, then how can you ever know that you're not the one who's strings he's pulling ? Answer : by your own definition of him, you can't.

I'm not planning on surviving death. As for what happens next, there's still no proof that religion has any inside information. They claim they do, and that's turned out to be a very profitable business for them. There's a lot of money and power to be made in exploiting people's fear of death. Even 2000 years ago, people knew that.

We know you can read, sir. That really isn't the problem.

"Do it my way, or you're going to die" ?

Charming.

anonymoose - not verified but not yet vitrified,

Here again you give clear evidence you set up your own delusions then shoot them down.  Nice shot anonymoose!  (through my hoop)

You show you don't know ABC or "hop on one foot" about salvation in Christ - which is a gift - one of the most elementary principles of God's grace in Christ.

And as far as persecution - again, virtual persecution?  Persecution by video game?  No, sorry - this is nothing but a casual conversation about your faith - which you can't prove to me, and my faith (which I am saying works great for me) - but which I can't prove to you. 

The fact that you gave up on something that you didn't understand doesn't give you credibility to come on and say there's nothing to it.  Jesus is alive (and with in-destructable Life too by the way).  Walking by faith in Him is life indeed!  Please consider deleting your delusions and re-booting.

And contrary to your other delusions I don't consider myself above anybody on this website - I'm just one beggar sharing bread with another.  You are just throwing me up in attitude to trap shoot anyway sporty.  You know what you're doing in that respect - the sport of deception. 

mephibosheth   (is it true your philosophy class never got beyond roll call - whether you were "HERE" or not?)

Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new.  

(you can waste your whole life doing this - or experience the transforming power of faith - "Believe in Jesus and Live)

As has been pointed out to you by me halfway up this page which you ignored as well as numerous interspersals throughout this thread, this is an argument from ignorance fallacy, hence your conclusion does not follow from your premise, hence your argument is invalid, hence you lose. End of discussion.

Believe what you will. Your belief is but an interpretation by you and heretics that left the Catholic Church. You have already demonstrated that you are unable to substantiate why your belief is the way and  the Jews are wrong. You will not be saved by your heresy according to the Catholic Church as you have rejected the'true faith' per doctrine. Catholic doctrine says you are not part of God's Church, see Benedict's comments.

How are you different in your interpretation? You see the Catholic Church as idolatry and form your own concepts rejecting 2000 years of their interpretation. You would burn at the stake no different than I would in the Inquisition. Actually you'd burn and I'd be considered a relapsed believer since I offer no alternative interpretation. You preach heresy and I advocate disbelief.

Misquoting scripture serves what purpose here?

You have never defended how interpretation by you of the ancient religion based on the volcano god Yahweh has any basis. You have never presented evidence supporting your rejection of the claimed only "True Church" has basis. You have far more issues than your simplistic concept presented in the OP. So far you have shown only you are no more intellectual than the caveman that felt the earth tremble and worshiped it. He saw a bolt of lightning and called it a god. You instead group all of these fears into one and worship it with added fantasies.

You are welcome to live in fantasy and delusion if you so decide but it is such a waste. Take the Red Pill and see the real world.

Then why ignore facts ?

Isn't that exactly what everyone has been doing since page one?

There's the rub friend. How is it that you think the mistranslated words from 2000 to 3000 years ago are anything other than ancient beliefs written by man to explain the world they saw. Seriously, the problem is you see these words as from a god and all the evidence points to an authorship by delusional men.

Your sincerity is clear but you have that tinge of questioning that you won't consider as you fear to do so as you think it  damns you to Hell.

Agreed, and I sure am.

Yes.

On the other hand,....call me hopelessly naive, but I'm still hoping he might read one of his own posts some day, and realise he's not making any sense.

Also, I'm fascinated by his shameless dishonesty. I mean, did you read this bit ? :

" If you see a gap of self deception please point it out clearly and don't take prisoners, because I DON'T want to fool myself in any respect. "

My jaw still aches from dropping to the floor after reading that.

But you have a point. Maybe all I'm doing here is feeding a troll. If that's the case, just tell me, and I'll stop doing it, no problem.

Just one more thing, though : I wasn't kidding when I mentioned this thread has driven a few of my christian buddies to question their faith. So to everyone who has contributed to this monster-thread : Thanks ! Your time wasn't wasted.

Niko,

If you're going to be an expert on insincerity you ought to at least learn to spell it.  It's atonal American Idol time again. 

I could have coffee with you Niko and I'd buy.  It'd be worth it for the entertainment value.  Hopefully you can get a part in whatever play you're auditioning for.  The power of positive pretending. 

Really I'm touched by your concerns for my well being.  I have thought all this through however - and in hellish conditions, in the horrible pit with no foothold.  I have sorted all this out from hell up and I know what I'm talking about concerning the LORD's Deliverance from it.  Just a gentle suggestion: give Ecclesiastes a read - probably an hour of your time.  I just think you'll enjoy it. 

'til next time,

mephibosheth  

Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes?  There is more hope for a fool than for him. 

I find it revealing that WHEN folks like me, often of eastern philosophical mind set, say we all are "god",   the folks of meph's mind set scoff, abandon us, and worse. Even the death sentence this very day, in some places such as in the mideast ( where Jesus is admired ) .....

Thing is, story Jesus, said he and we are god too  ......  Go figure ?    So sad the dogmatic religious are .... and so atheistic  Jesus wept ..... ((( of course there are the other story Jesus concepts .... wild Paul's being the most popular, sadly  .

  BTW, The truth of what we are, doesn't require any Jesus nor Buddha etc, OBVIOUSLY ..... Religion Dogma is poison ..... geezzz, ask a scientist if everything is not somehow connected, or better yet, ask your own "common sense",  keep asking .... 

Nikolaj,  I know you are right .... What should I call it, faith, belief, intuition, revelation ??? ....  Hell I don't care. Me just does.     It is much more peaceful just being god ! never much imagined being anything else .....   Let me try again, Me not god?       Nay , that's just nutty, .... what else could I be ..... 

  In the beginning when man began to write, many messed up the definition of god !

¡Ahora haga no usted se siente mal señor!

Which says basically, now don't you feel bad sir!

Funny... Matt gives you a one-liner and he gets busted on. I and others have given you valid questions and refutations of your arguments and your hands go over your eyes...

Meph,

You continue to evade every question put to you. You seem to think you are Jonah preaching to the Assyrians in Nineveh, you're not. Start answering questions and stop preaching your poorly constructed quips. You have done nothing but preach and troll for converts in this entire thread. You do not show you wish to debate or converse but only preach the word according to Mephibosheth's warped interpretation. Do you think we haven't heard this before packaged with bows and ribbon. You have shown no interest in understanding any position or argument when it is posted. Many have tried to interest you in understanding why we don't accept your God. They have given you links to read positions and gain knowledge. You have put little effort into understanding us, your perceived enemy. You post material that is nothing but an attempt to preach. You could actually learn something here if you tried, but no you do the standard Christian thing and preach Jesus. Your attempts are as poor as Falwell's overseas mission that gave food to Muslims with Bible verse after the Tsunami.

Start answering posts and stop trolling for converts. There aren't any to be found here, we are all evil in your eyes. We would like to see your religion disappear and be added to the Sci-Fi & Fantasy section on bookshelves. If you don't answer posts this thread should DIE or go to Trollville where it correctly belongs. This means everyone who has tried to discuss your posts, DG, Matt, Prozac, Pyrokidd, Anonymouse, Nikolaj, Jcadfly deserves a response.

Answer Posts or DIE THREAD DIE

As far as trolling, you have ended most of your posts with "take the red pill".  What does that mean?

Watch or read about the movie "The Matrix." I'd reccomend reading about it - I never seen any movie and they suck as far as I can tell.

You have been trolling for converts in every single post.

I'm not sure where you have been hiding for the last 9 years. In Matrix the original movie Neo is told to take the Red Pill to see the Real World or the Blue Pill and he will wake up continuing in his illusion. My comment is for you to see the Real World not your fantasy. My mistake that you haven't seen it, even my extremely fundy Christian sister has.

You preach to those who already either have rejected your beliefs or those who have extensively studied religion. You don't understand our reasoning and don't make any effort to even look at the fallacies of your arguments when they are pointed out to you. There are many ex-believers here that have engaged you and you respond to them with Bible verses and how you have Jesus in you. You think somehow we don't get or understand how you feel but in that you are seriously in error. Read DGs threads and links  and the other suggestions that have been given to you if you care to learn more of us . We are not your enemy but you seem to think we are. Belief in irrational ideas is the enemy.  You can see from my comments that I have religious relatives and friends. We get along and have interesting discussions. They still believe and are welcome to do so as that is their choice. I don't instigate conversion discussion to save them from the belief that I see as fantasy. However I will not tolerate comments made by believers that are foolish and irresponsible. If someone such as you decides to argue and debate, do it but don't be evasive and resort to preaching the word. I know the Gospels and the Bible in great detail but I don't hold them apart from reality. After 30 pages of this thread you still think we have a great belief in not believing. That's because you don't listen and consider our point of view. I and many more of us already know yours.

You can learn about us and why we don't believe or you can preach.

pjts,

This seems a little ridiculous to me.  You say I am not participating in the real world because I haven't see a movie.  You say I am in a fantasy and you are talking about a movie? 

As far as your reference to deluded, I studied up some on David Hume and he wanted to ignore David's application of his own faith.  (That he destroyed his mother's faith in God then didn't come when she cried out to him for comfort on her death bed.)  His view was those things don't go together - life and "matrix" might be the way you put it.  My view is they do.  The way I see it one's personal life either supports or attacks one's matrix. 

This is just a glimpse of what I see as ignoring going both ways - again only the demonstration of belief trying to communicate with the faith of unbelief - two worlds (two matrix-es), two different perspectives, two different faiths.  Actually the argument comes down I guess to who is in the real world and who is in fantasy land.  Looks like you are in a movie? 

mephibosheth  (I'm going for popcorn  (proverbs))

It appears you have trouble with English comprehension as well as logical reasoning. What he is doing is employing an analogous situation from a movie to demonstrate that your situation is similar to that of the character under discussion.

Actually, if you have studied any Hume, you would know he developed a strong form of epistemic skepticism, the precise opposite of faith. Like Descartes, he destroyed all underlying assumptions that we can make about the world and by that assembled the following epistemological problems:

1. There is no way to rationally demonstrate causal inference or rely on induction (the problem of induction)

2. There is no way to demonstrate that what we percieve is actually real (the epistemological problem of perception and underdetermination)

3. There is no way to demonstrate that anything exists beyond our own minds (the problem of other minds and solipsism)

As DG pointed out in his last post I was using Matrix and the Red Pill as an analogous situation. You know like parables in the Gospels. As Matrix is a modern pop classic like Ben-Hur or the Bridge over the River Kwai when you were a kid I used it to show you were living in an illusion. If you saw the movie you'd see the analogy. The characters went through their lives living happily in a situation that was only in a programmed matrix that was imaginary. The correlation to believers is they are doing the same.

No one ever said Hume was a perfect considerate human. Don't use this as an excuse to preach only one was perfect as I know that one.

A good start. Someone lives in the world of never-was aka fantasyland. Consider who makes the claims that run counter to observed reality, you. Who considers the written words of ancient people as real when they run counter to observed reality, you. Even as a Catholic I would challenge you for your literal interpretations but as an atheist I demand you prove it. More Bible verses are not the way to do it either.

jcg,

I don't know what faith is in your matrix or what movie you would get your definition of faith from, but from my matrix ( not movies but Scripture, parables, examples, - my source) faith means trust and confidence in:

You have trust in something or someone that establishes your matrix.  Whatever that is, satisfies your conclusion that Jesus isn't the Son of God and so on.  I don't know what you would say that is.  Possibly it is several things you have trust or confidence in, but you have confidence and trust in something.  It's not what I have confidence or trust in.  It's your faith not mine.

secondly,

What you view as an attack I view as true love.  I'll give you a quote from my movie  Book:   Faithful are the wounds of a friend.  Profuse are the kisses of an enemy.  It matters what my motive is in saying something to you.  It isn't just what's on the surface that matters on these things.  I see my motives as right before God who sees all and knows all.   

You have this surface view of grace for instance - that it enables a "get out of jail free card" and think you're quoting Paul.  Yet you ignore Paul's answer to that: 

What shall we say, then?  Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?  By no means!  We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?  Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?  We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father we too may live a new life. 

You have been "wresting" the scriptures on this - or just misunderstanding them.  Is this an attack on you?  Not from my matrix - it's a thing I would want to know and I'm sharing it with you. 

mephibosheth

He who rebukes a man will afterward find more favor than he who flatters with his tongue.