what faith you
Offline
You can't prove there isn't a God. You believe it - I believe you are sincere - but that's your faith. You can't prove it.
I believe there is a God. I believe He designed, made the world and everything in it. I believe the sun, moon, stars, and penguins show great design - just to name a couple.
I think you guys have more faith than I do when it comes to believing preposterous stuff. My hat's off to your great faith - it's just illogical faith to me.
Man could not even make one acorn or one bee - this is evident to you guys. You can't explain magnetism or gravity - yet you think there was no designer? Great faith I say.
Offline (there are friends who pretend to be friends, but there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother)
and he just happens to be invisible, intangible and can only be accessed by an inner monologue (unless he chooses not to)
JCG,
The presence of God is easy enough to perceive in the Glory of His Creation, just as the Words of Christ are easy enough to understand. If they are misunderstood or God is not perceived it is not due to the lack of simplicity or easy perception but the perverseness of the perceiver.
There is a winnowing effect.
The "work of man" that pleases God most is to "believe the One God has sent" - Jesus. Those who refuse to do that refuse to have a relationship with God and shut the door to their own understanding of the Word of God and the Knowledge of the Holy One.
You think you can discuss the Scriptures with understanding yet in your unbelief you are in essence saying to God - "I don't believe you at all" - so you don't have a relationship with God, so how can you think you understand what He says? Love of God dwells in faith - also repentance and hatred of sin - also understanding of His Word.
Jesus didn't fence around his Words such that they couldn't be misunderstood, and from what He said about the parables I think it was on purpose so that if a man refuses to humble himself before God - realizing his true state before God - he ends up in darkness like you and your atheist friends who don't know your left hand from your right spiritually. It's not because it's not there for you or God doesn't want you or I don't want you to have it - you just refuse it from the starting blocks. Do you see God's justice in that?
If you have the question in your mind, "what must I do to be saved?" know that God has put that question there to test you. He knows what to do and what He has done - the question is testing you. You don't need to fail the test - you choose to. If you are honest you can see that your own works aren't worth doodly-squat. This is meant to help you accept the real Righteousness - the Righteousness of God in Christ, the Righteousness the comes by faith - the Righteousness that you summarily reject, JCG.
mephibosheth
(it's an open Book test, an open Hands test, an open heart test)
PS - Being "nicer than God" isn't going to cut it believe me. "I fall on the floor and I laughing" (Cecilia, Paul Simon)
Offline You meph...,
That sounds entertaining to have a god to worship. Can you teach me how ? I read the bible many times. It didn't work, because I AM god. Simple wise Jesus was pretty cool, he was god too. As for someone to worship tho, I prefer the much more profound 20th century Rod Serling ( holy revelations of the 'Twilight Zone' testament )
Offline jcgadfly wrote:(there are friends who pretend to be friends, but there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother)
and he just happens to be invisible, intangible and can only be accessed by an inner monologue (unless he chooses not to)
JCG,
The presence of God is easy enough to perceive in the Glory of His Creation, just as the Words of Christ are easy enough to understand. If they are misunderstood or God is not perceived it is not due to the lack of simplicity or easy perception but the perverseness of the perceiver.
There is a winnowing effect.
The "work of man" that pleases God most is to "believe the One God has sent" - Jesus. Those who refuse to do that refuse to have a relationship with God and shut the door to their own understanding of the Word of God and the Knowledge of the Holy One.
You think you can discuss the Scriptures with understanding yet in your unbelief you are in essence saying to God - "I don't believe you at all" - so you don't have a relationship with God, so how can you think you understand what He says? Love of God dwells in faith - also repentance and hatred of sin - also understanding of His Word.
Jesus didn't fence around his Words such that they couldn't be misunderstood, and from what He said about the parables I think it was on purpose so that if a man refuses to humble himself before God - realizing his true state before God - he ends up in darkness like you and your atheist friends who don't know your left hand from your right spiritually. It's not because it's not there for you or God doesn't want you or I don't want you to have it - you just refuse it from the starting blocks. Do you see God's justice in that?
If you have the question in your mind, "what must I do to be saved?" know that God has put that question there to test you. He knows what to do and what He has done - the question is testing you. You don't need to fail the test - you choose to. If you are honest you can see that your own works aren't worth doodly-squat. This is meant to help you accept the real Righteousness - the Righteousness of God in Christ, the Righteousness the comes by faith - the Righteousness that you summarily reject, JCG.
mephibosheth
(it's an open Book test, an open Hands test, an open heart test)
PS - Being "nicer than God" isn't going to cut it believe me. "I fall on the floor and I laughing" (Cecilia, Paul Simon)
1. "Seeing God in Creation" sounds as ludicrous from you as it does from Ray Comfort. You can do better than that.
2. It's my fault God can't get good ghost writers?
3. The righteousness thst comes by faith - back to the "I have to be righteous before I can get righteous"/"I have to believe in God before I can believe in God" stuff. If I have to be saved before I can be saved what good does it do?
4. The only thing God would be saving me from is what he supposedly created in the first place. Can I really trust God to save me from...God?
5. Yep - and being nicer than God is what will end up putting me in hell if it exists. Makes me think God doesn't really want good people - he wants people who will kiss his ass at the appropriate times. Beyond that, they're free to do what they want. So much for the absolutes in religion.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Offline mephibosheth wrote:1. "Seeing God in Creation" sounds as ludicrous from you as it does from Ray Comfort. You can do better than that. 2. It's my fault God can't get good ghost writers? 3. The righteousness thst comes by faith - back to the "I have to be righteous before I can get righteous"/"I have to believe in God before I can believe in God" stuff. If I have to be saved before I can be saved what good does it do? 4. The only thing God would be saving me from is what he supposedly created in the first place. Can I really trust God to save me from...God? 5. Yep - and being nicer than God is what will end up putting me in hell if it exists. Makes me think God doesn't really want good people - he wants people who will kiss his ass at the appropriate times. Beyond that, they're free to do what they want. So much for the absolutes in religion.jcgadfly wrote:(there are friends who pretend to be friends, but there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother)
and he just happens to be invisible, intangible and can only be accessed by an inner monologue (unless he chooses not to)
JCG,
The presence of God is easy enough to perceive in the Glory of His Creation, just as the Words of Christ are easy enough to understand. If they are misunderstood or God is not perceived it is not due to the lack of simplicity or easy perception but the perverseness of the perceiver.
There is a winnowing effect.
The "work of man" that pleases God most is to "believe the One God has sent" - Jesus. Those who refuse to do that refuse to have a relationship with God and shut the door to their own understanding of the Word of God and the Knowledge of the Holy One.
You think you can discuss the Scriptures with understanding yet in your unbelief you are in essence saying to God - "I don't believe you at all" - so you don't have a relationship with God, so how can you think you understand what He says? Love of God dwells in faith - also repentance and hatred of sin - also understanding of His Word.
Jesus didn't fence around his Words such that they couldn't be misunderstood, and from what He said about the parables I think it was on purpose so that if a man refuses to humble himself before God - realizing his true state before God - he ends up in darkness like you and your atheist friends who don't know your left hand from your right spiritually. It's not because it's not there for you or God doesn't want you or I don't want you to have it - you just refuse it from the starting blocks. Do you see God's justice in that?
If you have the question in your mind, "what must I do to be saved?" know that God has put that question there to test you. He knows what to do and what He has done - the question is testing you. You don't need to fail the test - you choose to. If you are honest you can see that your own works aren't worth doodly-squat. This is meant to help you accept the real Righteousness - the Righteousness of God in Christ, the Righteousness the comes by faith - the Righteousness that you summarily reject, JCG.
mephibosheth
(it's an open Book test, an open Hands test, an open heart test)
PS - Being "nicer than God" isn't going to cut it believe me. "I fall on the floor and I laughing" (Cecilia, Paul Simon)
JCG,
There are those who curse their fathers and do not bless their mothers. There are those who are pure in their own eyes but are not cleansed of their filth.
There are those - how lofty are their eyes, how high their eyelids lift! There are those whose teeth are swords, whose teeth are knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, the needy from among men.
If you are wise you are wise for yourself. If you scoff, you alone will bear it. Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
A stone is heavy, and sand is weighty, but a fool's provocation is heavier than both.
mephibosheth
Offline jcgadfly wrote:mephibosheth wrote:1. "Seeing God in Creation" sounds as ludicrous from you as it does from Ray Comfort. You can do better than that. 2. It's my fault God can't get good ghost writers? 3. The righteousness thst comes by faith - back to the "I have to be righteous before I can get righteous"/"I have to believe in God before I can believe in God" stuff. If I have to be saved before I can be saved what good does it do? 4. The only thing God would be saving me from is what he supposedly created in the first place. Can I really trust God to save me from...God? 5. Yep - and being nicer than God is what will end up putting me in hell if it exists. Makes me think God doesn't really want good people - he wants people who will kiss his ass at the appropriate times. Beyond that, they're free to do what they want. So much for the absolutes in religion.jcgadfly wrote:(there are friends who pretend to be friends, but there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother)
and he just happens to be invisible, intangible and can only be accessed by an inner monologue (unless he chooses not to)
JCG,
The presence of God is easy enough to perceive in the Glory of His Creation, just as the Words of Christ are easy enough to understand. If they are misunderstood or God is not perceived it is not due to the lack of simplicity or easy perception but the perverseness of the perceiver.
There is a winnowing effect.
The "work of man" that pleases God most is to "believe the One God has sent" - Jesus. Those who refuse to do that refuse to have a relationship with God and shut the door to their own understanding of the Word of God and the Knowledge of the Holy One.
You think you can discuss the Scriptures with understanding yet in your unbelief you are in essence saying to God - "I don't believe you at all" - so you don't have a relationship with God, so how can you think you understand what He says? Love of God dwells in faith - also repentance and hatred of sin - also understanding of His Word.
Jesus didn't fence around his Words such that they couldn't be misunderstood, and from what He said about the parables I think it was on purpose so that if a man refuses to humble himself before God - realizing his true state before God - he ends up in darkness like you and your atheist friends who don't know your left hand from your right spiritually. It's not because it's not there for you or God doesn't want you or I don't want you to have it - you just refuse it from the starting blocks. Do you see God's justice in that?
If you have the question in your mind, "what must I do to be saved?" know that God has put that question there to test you. He knows what to do and what He has done - the question is testing you. You don't need to fail the test - you choose to. If you are honest you can see that your own works aren't worth doodly-squat. This is meant to help you accept the real Righteousness - the Righteousness of God in Christ, the Righteousness the comes by faith - the Righteousness that you summarily reject, JCG.
mephibosheth
(it's an open Book test, an open Hands test, an open heart test)
PS - Being "nicer than God" isn't going to cut it believe me. "I fall on the floor and I laughing" (Cecilia, Paul Simon)
JCG,
There are those who curse their fathers and do not bless their mothers. There are those who are pure in their own eyes but are not cleansed of their filth.
There are those - how lofty are their eyes, how high their eyelids lift! There are those whose teeth are swords, whose teeth are knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, the needy from among men.
If you are wise you are wise for yourself. If you scoff, you alone will bear it. Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
A stone is heavy, and sand is weighty, but a fool's provocation is heavier than both.
mephibosheth
I thought you were trying to convince others of the "truth". I didn't realize you were going to bring up Biblical justifications for the actions of Christians.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Offline "Readiness to answer all questions is the infallible sign of stupidity." Saul Bellow, - Herzog
A wise man is also equally humble enough not to make shit up about god. (dogma)
You and I and everything is god. Wisdom, Ethics, Philosophy, Science are what we conscious life forms do. "Good and bad, wise and foolishly". Thing is Religion is, for the most part, dogmatic, and harmful. The reason is obvious to the wiser ones .....
The "religious" are the enemy to love ( to understand ) to heal , said wise atheist Jesus/Buddha. Wise ones have been saying this from the beginning of communication, but the masses insist on worshiping a "higher other". There is no OTHER, at least not to be making dogma religious shit up about, nor to worry about.
"To know good is to do good" ..... another wise one said.
Dogma is lying. "I AM GOD AS YOU" is not a lie. Would you Xains call Jesus a lier for saying that ??? The religious biographers/story writers were not always wise .... OBVIOUSLY ..... who is wise ? What is wise ?
Offline 1. "Seeing God in Creation" sounds as ludicrous from you as it does from Ray Comfort. You can do better than that.
jcg,
Here's a tiny glimpse of creation with a little vector calculus thrown in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NtegAOQpSs&feature=related
My dance for you is straight up.
mephibosheth
The heavens are telling the glory of God; and the firmament proclaims His handiwork. Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night declares knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard; yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.
In them He has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a Bridegroom leaving His chamber, and like a strong man runs its course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.
The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes; the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever; the ordinances of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb.
Offline jcgadfly wrote:1. "Seeing God in Creation" sounds as ludicrous from you as it does from Ray Comfort. You can do better than that.jcg,
Here's a tiny glimpse of creation with a little vector calculus thrown in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NtegAOQpSs&feature=related
My dance for you is straight up.
mephibosheth
The heavens are telling the glory of God; and the firmament proclaims His handiwork. Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night declares knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard; yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.
In them He has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a Bridegroom leaving His chamber, and like a strong man runs its course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.
The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes; the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever; the ordinances of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb.
You'd think that if Yahweh wanted to show us the honeybee dance as an example of his creation he wouldn't have waited for man to make and apply vector calculus to it.
As for Yahweh creating the dance itself - only if he used evolution to do it. link: http://naturalscience.com/ns/articles/01-13/ns_jdo.html
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Offline You'd think that if Yahweh wanted to show us the honeybee dance as an example of his creation he wouldn't have waited for man to make and apply vector calculus to it. As for Yahweh creating the dance itself - only if he used evolution to do it. link: http://naturalscience.com/ns/articles/01-13/ns_jdo.html
jcg,
I can always count on you to bind the stone in the sling and give the honor to the wrong source - then round comes the rock.
It gets me the way scientists "study" something then carry on as if they created it. What a joke. Very similar to actors playing a part in a movie then considering themselves an authority on that subject.
Scientific actors, hmmmm. And you give them "Tonys"
mephibosheth (use its own strength against it? yeah, right)
Offline It gets me the way scientists "study" something then carry on as if they created it. What a joke. Very similar to actors playing a part in a movie then considering themselves an authority on that subject.
Yeah, kinda like Christians and other god-fans, acting like ignorance is a virtue. They don't need to "study" anything.
It gets me the way they're happy to accept the rewards of other people's "studying" and then turn around and call it all a joke.
Offline jcgadfly wrote:You'd think that if Yahweh wanted to show us the honeybee dance as an example of his creation he wouldn't have waited for man to make and apply vector calculus to it. As for Yahweh creating the dance itself - only if he used evolution to do it. link: http://naturalscience.com/ns/articles/01-13/ns_jdo.html
jcg,
I can always count on you to bind the stone in the sling and give the honor to the wrong source - then round comes the rock.
It gets me the way scientists "study" something then carry on as if they created it. What a joke. Very similar to actors playing a part in a movie then considering themselves an authority on that subject.
Scientific actors, hmmmm. And you give them "Tonys"
mephibosheth (use its own strength against it? yeah, right)
And I can always count on you to let God plagiarize other people's work (including your own). Just like his ghost writers who claimed to be writing for God and stealing from other stories.
But...oh yeah...Humans are worthless in the sight of God. All they did was create Him after all.
Funny how all your comments to me of late contribute nothing to the discourse (unless dodging is considered a contribution).
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Offline
Pearl of wisdom from mephibosheth;
It gets me the way scientists "study" something then carry on as if they created it. What a joke.
I would have hoped it was a joke.
Otherwise it's one of the most stupid remarks ever made about scientific research and its practitioners. Why do religion and dumb spiteful venom so often go hand in hand?
(That's a rhetorical question by the way - unless you're as masochistic as you are obviously thick I wouldn't recommend you attempt to answer it)
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
Offline And I can always count on you to let God plagiarize other people's work (including your own). Just like his ghost writers who claimed to be writing for God and stealing from other stories.
But...oh yeah...Humans are worthless in the sight of God. All they did was create Him after all.
Funny how all your comments to me of late contribute nothing to the discourse (unless dodging is considered a contribution).
jcg,
Yes I admit we have a communication problem - you don't believe me or anything I say. The result is, about anything I say you either misunderstand, mischaracterize, mock or malign.
You are having the same problem with God don't you see it - a communication problem. I may be part of the problem between you and I, I admit - but the problem with you and God is you.
Have you thought about the question Jesus ask: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" You can get a glimpse of hell there, though no man can comprehend it - in the interests of our heaven. What is the answer to the Why? you and me, yes, and even Prozac.
As far as contributions to the discussion and dodging - that's just your projector at work.
mephibosheth
Offline The innate wish for a sky daddy, and the innate fear and superstition of the unknown, with thousands of years of religious authority brainwashing for greed , is indeed a tough spell to break ....
Jesus, a jewish buddha non-superstitious atheistic philosophy, was ahead of it's time, and so it basically failed and is still failing. Thanks to science it will eventually prevail. All is one , all is "god" cosmos, and there is no master, creator, designer. We are on our own, "condemned to be free".
Sorry meph. Wish your god was ... sort of ... I'd see you in heaven ... as the christ is in me ... I AM ONE with the ~!@#%^&*()_+~ 
Offline jcgadfly wrote:And I can always count on you to let God plagiarize other people's work (including your own). Just like his ghost writers who claimed to be writing for God and stealing from other stories.
But...oh yeah...Humans are worthless in the sight of God. All they did was create Him after all.
Funny how all your comments to me of late contribute nothing to the discourse (unless dodging is considered a contribution).
jcg,
Yes I admit we have a communication problem - you don't believe me or anything I say. The result is, about anything I say you either misunderstand, mischaracterize, mock or malign.
You are having the same problem with God don't you see it - a communication problem. I may be part of the problem between you and I, I admit - but the problem with you and God is you.
Have you thought about the question Jesus ask: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" You can get a glimpse of hell there, though no man can comprehend it - in the interests of our heaven. What is the answer to the Why? you and me, yes, and even Prozac.
As far as contributions to the discussion and dodging - that's just your projector at work.
mephibosheth
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Offline As far as contributions to the discussion and dodging - that's just your projector at work.
mephibosheth
Wow. Your talent for dishonesty is downright amazing.
Offline mephibosheth wrote:Tee hee. I asked some questions and made comments - you responded with Bible quotes that were intended to call me foolish because I didn't believe just like you do. But I'm dodging you... You're a funny cat, meph. What it seems the whole thing comes down to is that you want me to accept you and God as the Truth about everything on your word and his Word alone. If someone (human or claiming divinity) came to you and offered you such a cure-all, would you accept it at face value or ask for more evidence? You offered me your bipolar as "proof" where you read the bible and a book on lithium and went out and got the lithium yourself. After all your efforts were successful, you gave God the credit for all your work. Why? Have I thought about Jesus' question on the Cross? Not much, I admit. I can't see God forsaking himself, dying for three days and then resurrecting. Or is Jesus not God to you? Face it, the Bible is a compilation of stories where the authors drew from other work. If God had inspired it, surely he would've had made original copy.jcgadfly wrote:And I can always count on you to let God plagiarize other people's work (including your own). Just like his ghost writers who claimed to be writing for God and stealing from other stories.
But...oh yeah...Humans are worthless in the sight of God. All they did was create Him after all.
Funny how all your comments to me of late contribute nothing to the discourse (unless dodging is considered a contribution).
jcg,
Yes I admit we have a communication problem - you don't believe me or anything I say. The result is, about anything I say you either misunderstand, mischaracterize, mock or malign.
You are having the same problem with God don't you see it - a communication problem. I may be part of the problem between you and I, I admit - but the problem with you and God is you.
Have you thought about the question Jesus ask: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" You can get a glimpse of hell there, though no man can comprehend it - in the interests of our heaven. What is the answer to the Why? you and me, yes, and even Prozac.
As far as contributions to the discussion and dodging - that's just your projector at work.
mephibosheth
JCG,
I am aware that I can't inspire faith in you. We have discussed it from several angles and I don't think there has been any movement in you or me - at least with respect to our discussion, that I know of.
The bottom line is that is doesn't work for you and while I don't know this I get the flavor by this time that you don't even want it to be yours even if possible - don't know, I admit, strictly speculation. I think you have expressed that well.
It does work for me and is working for me in every respect and I'm not being deceptive in any respect. I don't think you can accept that either - you project that I am fooling myself. You can think that and it doesn't bother me except for the barrier in yourself - I mean it doesn't affect my life in Christ which is real and living and real. It bubbles up and over and can't express it like it is obviously to you, so that's just the way it is unless something changes which will just as obviously be a miracle - one I would like to see happen with everybody.
It seems the surface discussion always goes back to the bottom line - faith in Jesus and God or faith in something else. In your case it is faith in something else - it isn't God. Maybe it's several things - yourself, science, certain men, I don't know.
So where do we go from here?
mephibosheth
Offline jcgadfly wrote:mephibosheth wrote:Tee hee. I asked some questions and made comments - you responded with Bible quotes that were intended to call me foolish because I didn't believe just like you do. But I'm dodging you... You're a funny cat, meph. What it seems the whole thing comes down to is that you want me to accept you and God as the Truth about everything on your word and his Word alone. If someone (human or claiming divinity) came to you and offered you such a cure-all, would you accept it at face value or ask for more evidence? You offered me your bipolar as "proof" where you read the bible and a book on lithium and went out and got the lithium yourself. After all your efforts were successful, you gave God the credit for all your work. Why? Have I thought about Jesus' question on the Cross? Not much, I admit. I can't see God forsaking himself, dying for three days and then resurrecting. Or is Jesus not God to you? Face it, the Bible is a compilation of stories where the authors drew from other work. If God had inspired it, surely he would've had made original copy.jcgadfly wrote:And I can always count on you to let God plagiarize other people's work (including your own). Just like his ghost writers who claimed to be writing for God and stealing from other stories.
But...oh yeah...Humans are worthless in the sight of God. All they did was create Him after all.
Funny how all your comments to me of late contribute nothing to the discourse (unless dodging is considered a contribution).
jcg,
Yes I admit we have a communication problem - you don't believe me or anything I say. The result is, about anything I say you either misunderstand, mischaracterize, mock or malign.
You are having the same problem with God don't you see it - a communication problem. I may be part of the problem between you and I, I admit - but the problem with you and God is you.
Have you thought about the question Jesus ask: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" You can get a glimpse of hell there, though no man can comprehend it - in the interests of our heaven. What is the answer to the Why? you and me, yes, and even Prozac.
As far as contributions to the discussion and dodging - that's just your projector at work.
mephibosheth
JCG,
I am aware that I can't inspire faith in you. We have discussed it from several angles and I don't think there has been any movement in you or me - at least with respect to our discussion, that I know of.
The bottom line is that is doesn't work for you and while I don't know this I get the flavor by this time that you don't even want it to be yours even if possible - don't know, I admit, strictly speculation. I think you have expressed that well.
It does work for me and is working for me in every respect and I'm not being deceptive in any respect. I don't think you can accept that either - you project that I am fooling myself. You can think that and it doesn't bother me except for the barrier in yourself - I mean it doesn't affect my life in Christ which is real and living and real. It bubbles up and over and can't express it like it is obviously to you, so that's just the way it is unless something changes which will just as obviously be a miracle - one I would like to see happen with everybody.
It seems the surface discussion always goes back to the bottom line - faith in Jesus and God or faith in something else. In your case it is faith in something else - it isn't God. Maybe it's several things - yourself, science, certain men, I don't know.
So where do we go from here?
mephibosheth
You could start with answering my questions.
Why do you give God credit for your efforts and consider yourself worthless without him?
Why do you claim that not believing in God requires faith but you have knowledge that your life in Jesus/God (and by extension Jesus/God) is real? That's been a contradiction of yours for a while.
You also keep forgetting that I and many others here have had the experience you have. I'll grant you that you labor under the assumption that because we (probably) didn't believe in exactly the same way you do - we had it wrong. Nonetheless, we used the same Bible and the same God.
Fooling yourself, maybe. Contradicting yourself and dodging questions? Oh yeah.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Offline You could start with answering my questions.
I'll try jcg, but I'm not too optimistic. If God can't, how can I.
Why do you give God credit for your efforts and consider yourself worthless without him?
I have tried to answer this before but the problem is you don't have faith in God and you don't have faith in me. The application of this statement is this: you don't think I'm being honest about it. Here is my answer to this said question::: I give God credit for my efforts because He inspires them. I wake up and want to work and fight and give because of what Jesus did. What He did is what fuels nuclear fusion in my heart of hearts.
The second part of your question is why do I consider myself worthless without Him. Here is my answer to this second part::: To me I can't conceive of anything more of a hell on earth or beyond than being without His Presence after experiencing it. Without Him I would have no light of life within me. Without Him I would have no Living Water springing in my heart, no Manna from heaven to nourish my spirit - I would be roadkill in the desert without Jesus.
Next question::
Why do you claim that not believing in God requires faith but you have knowledge that your life in Jesus/God (and by extension Jesus/God) is real? That's been a contradiction of yours for a while.
Not sure that I understand this question the way you mean it, but I'll try to answer. You agree I think that I do believe in God. I have faith that there is a God and I believe that I know the true God is the God of the Bible and Jesus is His Son. I think you know that I believe these things.
Now, your side of this is this: you don't believe this is true (or some form of this).
I think that in order for you to not believe there is a God means you are putting confidence in something that tells you that. I call that confidence you have in whatever that is, trust, or faith. That may be your own mind, or other certain men, or feeling - I don't know. But you are trusting something that tells you this and I think it's logical to call that faith.
You also keep forgetting that I and many others here have had the experience you have.
JCG,
You can say that, but I don't think you can know that. You are assuming here something that you don't know. I'm sure there's one of your terms for this faulty logic. We are discussing these things, but you can't assume you have experienced what I have experienced. I'm sure you wouldn't accept this type of assumption from me. How can you accept it from yourself? Besides, how do you know I have forgot that you said that?
I'll grant you that you labor under the assumption that because we (probably) didn't believe in exactly the same way you do - we had it wrong.
JCG,
This again is another one of your assumptions. You are reading what you want into my attitude then answering it. I don't have the attitude that you have to be like me. If you have faith in God I'm sure He has a plan for you. I don't know what it is.
Nonetheless, we used the same Bible and the same God.
"Used" is different than being born again and everything being made new in Christ. I am bringing to you a possibility there is something you missed.
Fooling yourself, maybe. Contradicting yourself and dodging questions? Oh yeah.
I'm sure I do contradict myself. You can point it out so I can correct it.
Dodging questions? I feel instead like I have been trying to restrain the wind with you or hold oil in my hand with you. We are like the philosophy class that never could get past rollcall - they couldn't decide if they were "here".
mephibosheth
Offline Xains say, "I have faith in god". Wise Jesus/Buddha said that's a silly statement, because "we are god". 
////
Our "death" and destination is the same regardless of what we want to believe. /////
What we believe is god .... ( we are ONE, that's god for ya! ) 
Offline Xains say, "I have faith in god". Wise Jesus/Buddha said that's a silly statement, because "we are god".
Our "death" and destination is the same regardless of what we want to believe. /////
What we believe is god .... ( we are ONE, that's god for ya! )
You,
I think this would look bad on your resume' - people wouldn't think they could work well with you. I know I'm a lot more comfortable around people who don't "know it all".
Are you comfortable with your position as god? Is it stressful? I can't imagine managing all that. I can't even imagine a couple of rentals.
Another thing. If the ambulance comes your way and they ask you to count to ten and "what's your name?", I suggest you not say "god". They might not see it that way - I don't either by the way.
But if you're happy being god who am I to rain on your parade - wait, do you control the rain too?
mephibosheth (saint yes, God no)
Offline and story Jesus wept, as I do ..... ((( and yes, I AM the rain too .... ))) CONTROL ? a Master ? That is religion dogma, not god ....
Geezz man , what is not god ? 
Yes, totally comfortable. I had no choice about being god as all is ONE, as big J/B said, and so many others ..... Me god too ! Who are you ?
I can not understand the idea of worshiping a "separate" other anything ????
Tony the bold,
I don't have much to say to that. I really think we have communicated and fairly well understand each other. I know I would enjoy talking with you over coffee. And it's good to wrestle with ideas.
Part of the "really communicated" is that I totally understood you weren't trying to be obtuse (ha, I learned that from you).
Your (don't know what you call it, probably not "religion" - "life view" philosophy, whatever) works for you now. You are in good health, happy, nice wife, daughter.
It's great to have a God and Savior that works in all situations - and forever, beyond even death.
For example Job. His relationship with God with integrity took him through every hardship and test. I don't think your relationship with yourself would.
I don't mean offense either - but this is my view on things of this kind:
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an
enemy.
Accepting honor from others with your viewpoint could be a barrier to believing in Jesus as well. I think a man has to give up all honor to himself to trust in Jesus. Fortunately this is a real state rather than the "fantasy self" state. In reality this is where we are - spiritually dead with no solution.
Only God through Christ can bring us to life. In order for us to have the faith and trust in Him that is required to do this we must be willing to totally give up trust in ourselves. The honor of man interferes with doing this. A man can get to expecting the honor of other men. A man can start actually believing it himself. But it's a false state. Hopefully you will see that.
mephibosheth
My son, eat honey, for it is good, and the drippings of the honeycomb are sweet to your taste know that wisdom is such to your soul. If you find it there will be a future and your hope will not be cut off.
NigelTheBold,
A guy that loves to program, now this has me interested. How long have you been doing it, that you still love it? Or you may be putting together some neat applications that really boost the job? I've seen too much code in only 4 years, but keep on keeping on. Check out TopCoder.com if coding is fun for you, maybe you will see it as a challenge or fun.
I am a theist. The administrators should be stamping my picture at any moment.
I want to comment on a few items you wrote. I am a Christian, but this has not come at the expense of losing desire in life. I'm energetic full of life, fun, and enjoy those around. I think Ecclesiastes is an extreme example of an inside look at what a guy went through when he realized something very important....
His identity could not be tied to things, his position, his worth, his manliness, riches, even though he still had them. He had extreme thoughts and wrote things that normally would not be shared with your next door buddy. Ever read someone's journal? Yea it lets you see an array of thoughts not normally shared.
You spoke of Buddhism, and look at Islam, the Koran is a book that strongly resembles the Bibles. If you read the Koran, the guy change a few characters and the endings of Bible stories. Everything is similar. I would say that other religions have copied the parts of Christianity that they like an discarded the rest. There are tons of religions. California is one of the big states full of all kinds of religions, all man made packaged to do exactly what you said, provide a path to "happiness" or enlightenment.
Happiness; My happiness and your happiness are very similar. I care about the same things that you mentioned. I have all the things I want. I don't love programming, but I do it on a daily basis as a means to do the things I truly enjoy (working with people, joking, hanging out), and the paycheck.
I see God/Christianity as unavoidable. Daily I declare my identity, you say your are a programmer, a happy husband, a guy who has what he needs and is self sufficient with the company of others you love. I say the same things, except I know my identity is through God. I seek God's wisdom through Bible, prayer (non tangible honey), and obeying what I know in a non-judgmental approach.
Either way I am forced to have an identity, either in myself or in God. Either in relying on myself or God. What's your identity, are you the God of you? Also not meaning to be offensive or aggressive with that question, just posing it as I am interested in your response.
And it is not a trick or mind problem.
Pray daily for God to show himself to you, and I know if you continue to pray He will show himself to you. The people on this site will call you crazy and declare you mentally handicap or that you are imaging things, however God's power is open to those who come near. Come near and he will come near to you (bible verse and promise).
Taste and see that the lord is good (bible verse and promise). Intangible honey on the tongue.
At the same time I post this, realize, my last desire is to sell you Christianity. I am merely sharing who I am and how it makes absolute sense to me. Also I know that if you were to truly open yourself and pray daily for God to show himself to you, he would. If you want that, but sounds like you might not think you do or want that anyways.
To outsider faith in a powerful God seems like an out of Mind or out of Body type experience. Like you said, whatever makes you happy, whatever the identity a person chooses.....this is the most common vanilla latte.
}
}
Upside
It's always dangerous to mention Job. He made it through his trials because of his faith in God. But he wouldn't've gone through his trials if it weren't for God. I always see Job as a mixed message -- belief in God gets you through your troubles, but belief in God might get you into trouble.
I've been through hard times. Not "boils and a dead wife" hard times, but I've been recently-divorced, away from my child (the hardest thing of all, for me), broke, looking for work. Yes, that's definitely not being a child in Iraq with their arm blown off due to previously-unexploded ordinances. But it was definitely not a high point of my life.
This morning, as I was in my pajamas and wiring a can light above the stove (part of the kitchen remodel -- I've put off doing the counter until next week, yay!), a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses came to the door. This is the second time they've come. They asked me if I thought we might be living in the end times. "I don't believe in God, so I'm not too worried about the end times."
This led into a discussion of my atheism, as you might imagine. The gentleman asked, "Do you not believe in God because of all the terrible things you see in the world?"
JWs seem to bring this up every time you say you don't believe in God. I imagine it's one of their canned responses. Every time they do, I just think of poor old Job, who lost everything he had because God and Satan had a bet. "No," I responded. "It's because I see no reason for God to exist."
My happiness is definitely because of my decent, happy life. Even in the hard times, I enjoyed myself: I went to visit with my aunt and uncle and their kids. I enjoyed my entry-level, non-challenging, low paying job. I loved the music to which I listened. At times, I cried because I missed my daughter. Life was hard, to the point where I was overjoyed to find an unexpected $5 bill in my jeans, and debated buying vegetables, or blowing it on coffee and a donut. (Coffee and a donut won out, along with a small package of frozen peas to go with my ramen.)
At no point did I consider God to be relevent. My happiness has always depended on me, and me alone. My satisfaction with my own life is all that has mattered. There have been times when I have questioned whether or not it's all been worthwhile. Every single time, the answer has been, "Yes. Definitely." It has always been worthwhile. I could die tomorrow, and be satisfied I have left the world a better place than it would've been without me.
I have no book to quote to illustrate my acceptance, my satisfaction, my happiness, my joy. That doesn't make it less noteworthy. It simply means my life has no script, no guidebook.
I believe you and I would have a grand time over a cup of coffee and a donut. That's about the best compliment I have to offer anyone.
[edit addendum]
As for honor:
I'm not quite sure what "honor" would be in that context. Nor friend or enemy.
I would say I would value the least gift from a friend over the greatest gift of an enemy. Not the same, I'm sure. But it's as close as I can come. I have boxes of very small gifts from people I love. I have disposed of valuable gifts from people about whom I care little.
If you mean the giving up of pride: I have found the times I am most content, are also the times I am least prideful. I can take momentary happiness from pride in a particular accomplishment, and that is good. But constant pride seems to eventually depress me. In the end, I do try to maintain a certain realistic evaluation of myself, which definitely reduces the pride.
But perhaps you refer to something else altogether.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
I've been programming since I was 13, about 28 years ago. I've only been programming exclusively for the last 3 years -- before that, I programmed either as part of the free software movement, or just to support my other roles (DBA, sysadmin, that sort of thing). For 28 years, I've always had 2 or 3 projects going at once, though. And I've loved it every time. I still love it, even doing it exclusively. I feel I'm contributing to the world in some small way, especially when I do something for free software.
The closest I can come to a conception of God is Spinoza's God, the God of the Universe. His was a pantheistic God. I don't believe the universe is God, though. I see wonderment, beauty, awe-inspiring symmetry and logic. But I don't see God.
I don't see myself as my own God, by any means. I am just one small, humble person. (Okay, I'm an arrogant SOB, not so humble, but I know I'm not important in the long run, so I call it humble.) All I can do is try to contribute more to the world than I take. In that way, I hope humanity will survive our adolescence, and move out into the planets, and one day walk among the stars. I'll never see that day, but when I die, I hope I might imagine I helped contribute to that goal, in some small way.
I guess what you see in God, I see in Us. All of us. We are growing, and we are wonderful. I won't say that life is sacred; I will say that life is cool. I won't say we deserve to survive; but I will say I hope we do.
I thank you for your promises of the Bible. I can't partake of them, as I don't believe in God. That's one of the Catch-22s of the world: the Bible is full of grand promises, but to believe in them, you must believe in the Bible. It offers proof of God, but you must first believe God exists. And I can't do that. Faith is not a switch to turn on or off.
And as far as Islam or Buddhism resembling the Bible: they do, in certain respects. Strangely, I think Buddhism and Christianity have more in common than Christianity and Islam, though the latter share a common God, and many Christians practice a faith that more resembles Islam than Christianity. But really, all religions are fundamentally similar because they share a common heritage. Christianity has traceable roots back through many earlier religions (not just Judaism). Even the Christmas tree comes from pagan rites. Christ's birthday usurped the winter solstice, and His resurrection the spring equinox, both major Pagan celebrations. Sunday was originally Apollo's day. And so on. We have a common religious heritage, as disparate as our beliefs might be. It's not that they have borrowed from Christianity. It's that they are all singing a common tune.
I am happy you have an identity with which you are happy. To me, that is the second most important thing in life: happiness.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
You,
I'm going to say you're unfocused - or what you are focused on is confusion.
mephibosheth (you asked)
Prozac,
Right. The bipolar is an aid to helping the one who has it see he/she can't put trust in their own perspective, or in essence, themselves.
This just happens to put the person in a position to totally trust in Jesus. The result is to God's Glory.
On the other hand, those who have reasons to think they can trust in themselves and appear to be having some success in it - will be brought low. This is seen in scripture and seems many times to be observed in life, though I don't know what I'm seeing in life exactly as far as behind the scenes. I think I have seen many examples of this though. A disadvantage of being man is not knowing what God is doing (Ecclesiastes).
The anchor or harbor that is not moving and secure is a welcome rest to the sufferer of affective disorder.
mephibosheth (steady the ship)
Did you just say that if God hadn't given you bipolar disorder, you wouldn't have a reason to trust him? You're praising Jesus for messing with your brain chemistry?
Is this Battered Spouse syndrome, Stockholm syndrome or a bit of both?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Let me try again; To realize atheist gnostic Jesus message of "one with the cosmos (father) " for yourself, is to be Jesus, as the "Christ" is now in you too. Worshiping Jesus, and god of abe is idol worship, and self god separation. "NO God before me", as you and god are ONE. ( Moses? )
The J message is so ultra simple that people having superstitious tendencies and fear create and hold onto X dogma. Xainity is an insult to the the Jesus "One" message ..... and is Xain confusion, sometimes called the Devil or wrong thinking, and even the anti christ Pauline doctrine .....
Xains are sheep. Jesus would never approve . Of course we all pick our Jesus ..... Like I said, I AM JESUS ! ..... move up the ladder good meph ...... All is ONE.
This message was a bit more profound in the very superstitious times it was realized. It's sad that even to this present day the church has managed to pervert the simple "saving" Jesus message of ONE ..... and Jesus still weeps .... as ME .....
I AM, as you, is my proof ....
I recommend Xains read the progressive Buddhists appreciation of Jesus simple atheistic philosophy.
Best regards, thanks for caring .....
Atheism Books.
JCG,
I don't know but He did and I do. Psalm 107 mentions other things that brought people to this understanding (that they can't trust in themselves)
. "Some wandered in a desert land, finding no way to a city to dwell in...."
"Some sat in darkness and in the deepest gloom, prisoners suffering in iron chains". "
Some became fools through their rebellious ways and suffered affliction because of their iniquities".
"He turns rivers into a desert and springs into thirsty ground".
On the other hand, "crush a fool in a mortar with a pestle yet his folly will not depart from him".
So sometimes there is value in suffering. Other times not. Like the Carol King song, "If it had been as I intended, I wouldn't have the peace I know".
mephibosheth
You,
Sorry, I don't make heads/tails out of that. I will say budda doesn't concern me - nor is he a god. I have no faith in or concern for it.
True it's a challenge to wade through all the fog and muddy water, bad examples, etc down here. And the wading comes at a bad time - at least on the start - while we are dead in sin, in the dark, not knowing what we are stumbling over.
The spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord searching out all his innermost parts - I suggest you check your wick and oil level.
meph (short for mephibosheth - not the other)
sorry meph, my bad, I am indeed a poor communicator,
Maybe this Angel will help,
"Wisdom of the Buddha" 8 min, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTsb-woP3jI
I post this alot, do you like ? I adore that ? And me Jesus, as all that Jesus can be as me , says yeah ..... that's what I was saying, too say, Me, Jesus, and Buddha are one, as all is ONE !
Ummm ? What is NOT god ?
Atheism Books.
1. Do you see God's hand in only your suffering or do you find it in the sufering of others as well? I just want to make sure you're not one of those "Thank God that he sent part of Katrina into New Orleans so all those people could have a second chance" types.
2. If you took (or still take) the lithium after your research, why give God credit for your work? I've never understood that attitude - "I went to the doctor and he told me I had to have cancer surgery, so I prayed about it and asked others to pray for me as well. Then I went to the hospital and the doctor performed the surgery. After that I went back a few more times for radiation and chemotherapy until my cancer went into remission and it hasn't come back. Praise Jesus I'm healed!"
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
You,
Ah, yes, some pretty shells are washed and on the shore - but we have not walked the depth. Some of those pretty shells you wouldn't want to stick in your pocket or you'd likely be dead before home.
We see just the surface of everything. If we could comprehend the perfection of God maybe we could start to see how great is our guilt. The application of this is the folly of the idea that we in any way can save ourselves with some form of our own wisdom or righteousness.
Fortunately, we can't comprehend the grace of God in Christ either. Just as sure as we can't save ourself we can be saved by accepting the Righteousness of Christ and be immersed and reborn in Him.
Our soul can be brought to rest not by man's reasoning or giving or forgiving or poetic recitation but - our souls find rest in "believing Jesus". This is the transformation we need - from searching man's wisdom to faith in Jesus.
Trust in Jesus and Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, Jesus Word and Jesus indestructible LIFE can give you salvation today. There is no other Way.
mephibosheth (fortunately I have been forewarned against such angels)
JCG,
Like I said from my understanding of Ecclesiastes a disadvantage of being a man is not knowing what God is doing. I may think I see examples of God using situations to bring man to repentance but I don't know that and won't let myself think that. I don't presume to know what is going on behind the scenes. There is a promise in Scriptures however that "all things work together for good for those that love the Lord", so disasters could have good results if this is applied.
As to why I don't bow down to science because of lithium - that reminds me of a story in the Old Testament, either Jeremiah or the Psalms I think that goes something like this: A man cuts down a tree. With part of the tree he cooks his lunch. With the other part he makes a god and bows down to it and says, "you are my god".
It has ears but it can't hear, eyes but can't see. It has legs but it can't walk - it has to be carried. The people who make such false gods become like them - like what they worship. (that might refer to wooden heads)
Hope this helps. I worship the living God - who made heaven and earth and lithium.
mephibosheth
(drywall, electrical and carpentry, some ceramic tile - but NO gods!)
I don't think anyone here worships science as you seem to be implying. What I'm wondering is why you take advantage of scientific accomplishment and then give God the credit (probably while absolving God of failure of an experiment didn't go as planned).
God didn't make the scientists look for knowledge - they did that all on their own
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
JCG,
The one who builds the house has more honor than the house. All of this you are describing has happened in God's House, sitting on God's earth, filled with God's air, with some of God's Light cracking through from His Son - That comes like a Bridegroom out of His chamber and runs His course like a strong Man, steady, straight, constant, with joy. The darkness scatters like cockroaches. It won't win against the light.
If you comprehended an atom's worth of God you would see more your desperate state and distorted position on this - maybe you could start to marvel at the Grace of God, which too can't be comprehended. At least your marveling would be in the right direction.
The scientist has made the equivalent of a paper airplane and you are all ready to ride and jump for joy and say, "surely you are the people, and wisdom will die with you"!
A more fitting question is why you and your scientists come in the house when a fire is already built and use God's shop, materials, electricity, TV dinners and then think somebody died and made you Elvis.
mephibosheth (I don't ride paper airplanes)
Ah, yes. "Praise God from whom all blessings flow".
The cursings flow from God as well. Why don't you give him credit for those as well? You know, thank and praise him for all the deaths from hurricanes and tsunamis, etc.? Oh, wait, you praise God for giving you bipolar...never mind.
Why did man come in and use God's shop (as you call it)? Well, he wasn't doing a damn thing with it so we figured that using it to better everyone's existence was more useful than praising him for the nothing he'd done with it. I love how you can give God credit for all that humans do and at the same time decry reason (which you also believe God gave us)and push faith as a substitute.
I'm glad you don't ride paper airplanes. Do you use commerical flights (human invention) or do you just flap your arms and jump up and down, praying that God will pick you up and carry you? Do you travel in the spirit ala John the Revelatior?
Or do you only use aircraft that were built by god's hands?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Dear meph, as a follower of Christianity you would of course claim the Earth as belonging only to "God".
A follower of Islam will make identical claims in regard to "Allah" owning the Earth.
Simply substitute the master Deity of any currently practiced religion, pagan or otherwise, and on and on it goes. All these separate gods competing for ownership of the Earth, ( it must be a time-share program or something ? )
All I know is all I AM, All that can be is our perception. To say there is more is basic intuition. Therefore I AM GOD ..... what else can we be ?
and All i AM, i don't know, so G 'A W E D' , 'A W E' L A , Y 'A W E' W E .... Yeah, I got the AWE ! Now what ? Religion? Dogma? Pray? Geezz, what an insult religion is to the bible stories and atheists Jesus / Buddha etc ....
The religious turn the ancient "Twilight Zone Series" of messages (as is the bibles), into "I believe" in religion church dogma interpretations ..... Worship Rod Serling ?
I try to understand their God of abe idol worship of separatism .... "Love (understand) the enemy", a wise man wrote .... (the enemy of separatism and superstition in us all)
Mercy, mercy, mercy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRrFWp4DUho
Atheism Books.
Now JCG,
I'm whirling at 1000 mph on the stinky ball and also hurdling through space at 67,000 mph. That's enough flying for me. I'm making my mistakes on the ground.
But they are happy mistakes.
mephibosheth (my uncle used to make helicopters out of horseflies - with a weed rudder - they flew straight up.....for a while)
You,
I liked the song you linked.
You seem to have a "flow of consciousness" - like Robbin Williams or Jonathan Winters - I used to think Jonathan Winters was pretty funny at the time but when you really take a close look at the product it isn't much of a product in my opinion.
In my view it isn't an insult (again if I am interpreting you right) to share what I understand is the truth with you. It would be an insult to hold back the truth as I see it - and I have no doubt that budda is not a god, other than a false god.
I am focused on totally trusting in Jesus. If you are focused on trusting in budda you are free of course to do that, but I would try to help you see that the one you should be focused on trusting in is Jesus.
If you have no focus, like Don Quixote, riding off in all directions, again - I would try to show you why you should instead only focus on Jesus who died and is alive with an indestructible life - died for you. If it's spoken of as a bet, you should put all your money on Jesus - for lack of a better analogy.
Much of your post I don't understand at all, sorry, so I can't respond to it. I'm sure I'm unclear a lot too, so don't take that as an insult. I am trying to communicate.
mephibosheth (I don't carry mine, mine carries me)
Which brings up the question - If your truth was shown to be a lie would you abandon it?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Prozac,
Yes, sorting it out is a challenge, but as smart as all the guys rate themselves on this website (JCG rates himself smarter than God - maybe you too) you won't be able to claim ignorance if you fail to figure out who the real owner of the earth and heavens is, will you?
You observe the question, but it's not an observation question - it's very serious. It has eternal significance. You treat it as a game of "Candyland" or something. It isn't.
The serious question and answer you should really look into is "Who is Jesus?"
mephibosheth (I've looked)
Uh, no. If I claimed to be smarter than God, I'd know he didn't exist. I don't know that. I've seen compelling evidence that he doesn't and "oh, just have faith" in his support.
I can make a claim that I'm nicer than God - I haven't killed off a race of people or wiped all life from a planet because they ticked me off.
What's the old saying..."Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which stays longer"
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
mephibosheth .....
, the thing is about jesus is , I AM JESUS ..... as all is one , as the Christ is in me
, IS ME .... I worship nothing .... I FUCKING can't ...... It is impossible ( when you and god are ONE, as I AM as YOU )))) >
yeah, the saving J message ! 
ummm, who fucked it up ..... 
Atheism Books.
You,
You may have crossed the border without a passport there - better come in off the water.
You know, I've been thinking here that FAITH, the very thing that is the fundamental of this thread, which is the fundamental that the atheists deny is the very "work of God" which Jesus told his disciples in John 6 is the most pleasing to God.
Faith is the gift of God, true, but it is man that believes if he has the gift. It is "wrought" (like a blacksmith works metal in the fire) in man by God, but it is possessed by man if he has it. This is the very fundamental that sums up what is pleasing to God. Repentance lives in faith. Hatred of sin lives in faith. Love of God and Jesus also live in faith. This is the very thing you atheists don't have and it appears don't want.
I wonder what your objection to it is. Let's say we are applying it to another man - that you have faith in this man. You trust him. You know him. Your heart is with him. You believe what he says. You believe him when your back is turned. It's a neat thing to have a relationship like that with another - a real friend. Why wouldn't you want that with the living God and Christ.
You have an aversion to that when it comes to God. This is the very thing God wants but it's the very thing you reject and spit on. It is a seed you don't want to plant - or it seems even consider. Or you consider and for some reason reject outright.
mephibosheth
(there are friends who pretend to be friends, but there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother)
(there are friends who pretend to be friends, but there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother)
and he just happens to be invisible, intangible and can only be accessed by an inner monologue (unless he chooses not to)
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
You seem oblivious to the significance of my examples, or simply don't care . ( I suspect the latter )
What you have provided as a compelling argument is simply an example of the garden variety religious testimony. ( Sharing their testimony is what all religious followers do. )
You believe that your god is the only correct god. ( This is what all religious followers say. )
Only a relationship with your own particular god will satisfy the soul. ( This is what all religious followers say. )
Your religious faith system has been in existence for thousands of years. ( All major world religions make the same claim. )
Millions of other people agree with you ( All major world religions make the same claim. )
Your religion has a holy book that contains the words of god ( see above )
Yes, sorting it out. "God" seems to have complicated the process a bit ?
Also, you reprove your critics for using their own judgment in regard to god-belief and imply that this indicates conceit, yet you follow up with your personal insights and consider us foolish for not trusting in your judgment. ( Can't see forest for the trees ? ) Like yourself, everyone has an opinion, this does not indicate conceit.
So anyway, according to you we are the conceited ones because we don't agree with you......but on the other hand you not only disagree with us but also threaten us with subtle threats of God's torture ie, "eternal significance" .
Well.... who could stand against such a well-reasoned argument as yours ?