It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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Considering I and many others were indoctrinated into religion at a young age I would still say "atheism" has changed things. From small things in your personal life to your whole world view, it all changes.
If you had never been religious this would sound about right.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I see nothing but positive changes in all those who have divorced themselves from religion.
I did neglect to mention (although I have discussed it in other threads) that I was born and raised in a family with a long line of 'non religion', on both sides of my parent's families.
I never even heard the term 'god' till I was maybe 5 or 6 yrs old.
I have to admit that a large part of the appeal of this site, is the large amount of 'ex' theists who frequent here.
I wouldn't care so much about 'atheism', if it were not for how becoming an 'atheist' helped so many people become 'free', from the tyranny, and mob mentality of theism.
I have a great deal of respect, and empathy, particularly for those who were deeply, deeply indoctrinated by their families and surroundings, and managed to emancipate themseleves from the masochistic submission to such a meme.
It's obvious to me that althought theism is 'stupid', that it doesn't necessarily equate to all those who believe in it, that they're 'stupid'.
That's very telling to me, that those who believed in it, to whatever extent, understand now that 'it' (belief in supernatural deities) is a stupid belief.
I don't believe I've ever seen a former theist on this site, ever have a knee jerk response, and take personal offense to someone like me, who has nothing but the opinion that theists are being stupid for believing such utter drivel.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
You're right redneF, I meant as a contrast to previously being a theist, much like rob pointed out.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
I understand, and I hope it didn't come across that I was undermining any comments from former theists. It was just putting a fine point on the retarded canard from theists that 'not theist' is some kind of 'competing' religion, philosophy, culture, moral code, etc, to their 'supernatural' mythology.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
red,
You can sincerely believe you have invented something that will enable you to fly, proving you do jumping off the edge into oblivion.... but your sincerity won't save you from the law of gravity. Your ridicule of gravity won't save you either, or ignorance of it, nor fellowship of ignorance, harmonious denial and ping pong ridicule. A coordinated "flash mob" party jump won't save you either, and the laughter will last as long as the "crackling of thorns under the pot."
In the spiritual dimension only One can save you - and That you reject with fool sport. But the Truth will always look good in the end - and the end is at hand.
Is someone trying to talk? Almost sounded like a desperate plea. Blah blah blah my fairy unicorn in the sky will poop on your head.
I'm glad I don't have to sit around and reason out the why's and wherefore art thous' of a god.
If I were a god I would scoff at one who purported to know what I want based on their own wants and desires while at the same time professing blind faith with no sort of evidence for such other than a dusty old book written by other men.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
No.
Someone is desperate to fucking preach.
He's had his chance to engage in sober dialogue.
Fuck him.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Yea the "my god is so great my god is so wonderful and you will burn in my fairy tale hell" is past old.
There has been no debate or evidence presented from his end of the spectrum, time to talk about other things.
Another thing about being an atheist as opposed to being religious it broadens your view, religion is such a narrow train of thought limited by one's own desire. This could directly correlate with the idea I already mentioned that it also helps cure the detachment problem so many suffer from so maybe I'm being redundant to a degree.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I know you mentioned that before, but, I'm not quite sure what you mean.
Could you elaborate?
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Detachment from others, the amazing ability to walk past one in need and either pretend they don't exist or truly think of them as "an object" rather than as a person such as yourself.
To think of people in other countries who suffer with as much sympathy as one might have for a fly in peril.
The religious minded seem to be more detached and more prone to only looking out for "their own".
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
rob,
All assumptions in your mind, delusions actually. Faulty reasoning you wouldn't admit except for the great need for it.
Anything but face the fact that atheists don't have anything that really works - not even demolition of things that do.
Some religious nuts are so deep in they really can't even smell their own shit and then there are some who are well aware of it and roll the shit around, form and shape it into cute little items and expect to pass them off as the real thing.
Atheists don't have a pile of shit to defend.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Robj101, I'm getting some strange noise here. It sounds like someone is claiming he doesn't treat people like shit while he's treating someone like shit.
Must be cross talk - I'll boost the signal on my end.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Why bother =), Maybe it was the tornado's from "god" that tore up the communications infrastructure.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
It's funny you mention that.
One thing that's always stuck out in my mind is how much they like to pry into peoples' affairs, and their habit of making enemies.
Like xenophobia.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
That's the objectification he wrote about.
When you don't treat others like fellow humans, the tendency is to try to fix them.
Note how protective they get when one of their own falls from grace.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
rob,
I've noticed that.
Has anyone seen Fonzie lately? Haven't heard from him/her in a while, and I'm getting concerned.
Maybe he's working on a long-term carpentry project? Or getting an extra-large lithium prescription filled?
Or maybe Elvis has called him home, in which case he's in a better place.
In any case, if he shows up, I'd appreciate it if someone would ask him the following question. He might have missed it before:
There are no theists on operating tables.
From what I have heard he has been busy lately sitting around interpreting the bible so that it pleases him. I guess we would all be in his shape if we "wanted" to do that.
Real shame what we "want" is some truth and reality.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I figured the expression "a pile of shit" would lead him to respond, as simple questions or polite conversation aren't his thing , but he seems to have lost interest in that as well.
Yup, he's gone.
I shall miss him.
Once more, for old times' sake :
yeah, good times....
Like the way the Protestants and the Catholics try and fix each other?...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Fonzie seems to be the only one proud of defending what he admits is a pile of shit.
j-fly,
I have been busy lately, but it's been enjoyable. I've been studying about the sin offering from different views in Leviticus 4. They all pointed toward the sacrifice of Christ. Whether the high priest, the leaders or the common man - all put their hand on the sacrifice. The point was the blood - "without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins". The putting the hand on the sacrifice was an admission of being a sinner. No one could be your sponsor on that. You had to do it or it didn't get done. There was mystery to it - but at some point you had to just follow the instructions with the assurance "and his sins will be forgiven".
Unlike the high priest Jesus didn't have to offer sacrifice for His sin - He didn't have any. Whereas the high priest sprinkled the blood 7 times on the veil between the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place and only entered for a short time once a year - when Jesus said "It is finished!" the veil was torn from top to bottom. The first thing lost by man when he sinned was the first thing restored - access to God. Now through the blood of Jesus we are all priests and all have access to God.
The sacrifices were mainly a matter of faith for the Israelites as to whether they were done because they were out of sight. They were for God to see rather than man. Jesus' death was to satisfy God's justice - (a crooked lawyer could have figured a short cut but God doesn't operate that way). Jesus had to die. It pleased God to bruise Him for our sake.
Look how Jesus is the meeting place for God an man. God sees His law upheld, honored, and justice totally satisfied. We see we can totally trust God and His Salvation, His promises. The death of Jesus is the guarantee of all guarantees. If there is a veil between us and God for those of us in Christ it is our imagination because it's not the case. We enter the presence of God through the blood of the Lamb. The cross of Christ and the blood of Christ give us peace.
The Tabernacle was a bloody mess - but it's good to be horrified about sin. The greatest need of man is to have his sins forgiven and the only way for that to happen is through the blood of Jesus. Jesus took His Own Blood into the real Holy of Holies and offered it for the sins of all who believe for all time. Those who don't accept the sacrifice of the blood of Jesus make God out to be a liar.
Sounds like a crock of shit to me... is that a crock of shit in your avatar picture?
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
I always figured it was a jug of kool-aid, but it is obviously a crock of shit after all.
edit: and explaining fairy tales in detail is fun. I like leprechauns, they have a pot of gold and leave them at the end of a rainbow but only the naive and ignorant want and hope to find it... and that's just it ..want and hope.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Alright folks. Where is Fonzie? It's NOT FUNNY ANYMORE.
I'll go so far as to say your objections to his transvestite carpenter lifestyle; his immoderate use of prescription medication; and his willingness to kill children should his imaginary god command him to; are not entirely without merit. Yet even an alleged reprobate such as this should have at least one opportunity to answer the question
Enough is Enough.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Going off topic here...
I've been reading the comments from those hit by the tornado's like, 'We lost everything but, we're blessed'. One lady told how she prayed in her bathtub and even though the roof blew off, she knew god saved her... even though the neighbor down the street was killed. WTF is wrong with these people? If my house were blown to smithereens, the last thing I would feel is 'blessed'.
Did the lady in the bathtub really think that her mumbo jumbo prayer spared her life? Did she think it was gods will that 300 other people died?
How freaking stupid can people be?
Btw, I was lucky. I just lost the top out of a Buckeye tree. People 2 miles up the road had their house trailer flipped. I wasn't praying but, I'm sure they were. Maybe they didn't pray hard enough?
I'm sorry but, when people give thanks to an imaginary god for being spared in a disaster while hundreds (or, thousands) of others are killed, it just burns me up.
How do they justify this? 'Well, it's just gods plan' or, 'God works in mysterious ways.'
No stupid, shit happens. Sometimes it happens to you and sometimes it happens to someone else.
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
Well apparently "god" only does the good things. Tornado's are either nature or the devil only the most fundamentalist christians think of disasters as an act of "god". There are a few wondering what they did "wrong" lol.
As far as the inventors of the religion, nah they were not genius, you can take any text and interpret it the way you want too and that's what keeps religion rolling.
Low grade philosophers who happened to be lazy socialists wrote it imo.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Sandy,
A disadvantage of being human is not knowing what's going on backstage. "When I applied my mind to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done on earth, how neither day nor night one's eyes see sleep; then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out; even though a wise man claims to know, he cannot find it out." In the book of Job we get a backstage pass. God allowed the devil to test Job. The devil said he could make Job curse God to His face (like you are doing already). The devil had a storm come through and wipe out Job's house, family. Next the devil took away all Job's comforts and his friends attacked him with accusations similar to yours.
Job defended himself spiritually and stood his ground. His clear conscience was part of that defense - "O that I might have my request and that God would grant my desire; that it would please God to crush me, that He would let loose His hand and cut me off! This would be my consolation,; I would even exult in pain unsparing; for I have not denied the words of the Holy One. What is my strength that I should wait? And what is my end that I should be patient? Is my strength the strength of stones, or is my flesh bronze? In truth I have no help in me, and any resource is driven from me. He who withholds kindness from a friend forsakes the fear of the Almighty."
But God knew Job wasn't getting hit with anything he couldn't take. It was the devil that had no respect for Job - or for you. His connection with God held, Job's faith was a shield and he kept his shield.
Good can come out of disaster. In fact we are promised that "all things work together for the good to those that love the LORD". I've seen good come out of disasters in my life - have you? If not, I'm sure you're aware that there will be disasters for everybody in some way, for sure death (the last storm) will hit.
Your approach is similar to all the atheists I've discussed things with on this forum - a demolition approach. It's one thing to be able to tear a building down, vandalize it, burn it down - it's another thing to build.....a life. In Christ we can build from the foundation up - and this house built on the Rock will withstand all storms.
At the end God answers Job in the whirlwind - but not the questions like you ask. The point is respect - He is God. "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements - surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" In the presence of God Job despised himself. God restored Job's fortunes double. Good came from disaster. Gold was refined by the fire. Chaff was blown away.
Also there is a basic conflict between those who try to earn their own salvation in life (here or after) by doing good things (their own righteousness). You allude to this with the santa and easter bunny thing. This conflict goes deep and doesn't represent the Righteousness of God - salvation by faith. This false teaching even permeates the people of God and causes conflict. The Righteousness of God is through faith in the blood of Christ the Lamb of God paying for our sins. He Who knew no sin took our sins upon Himself to free us from our sins. Faith in the Sacrifice of Christ is a totally different experience than trying to earn salvation by "do gooder" stuff. Of course then guys like j-fly come along and say thus there are no good things done - but the truth is there are more. The good things done are not tainted with a selfish motive but are a response to the love of God in Christ.
He's gone. He has forsaken us.
It's like....the echo of a duck's quack.
A duck that's completely ignoring the last 2000+ posts or so, including his own.
..."fonzie" ?
Nah, still gone.
That's about it really, a mind lost to it's self.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I am not cursing your god to his face. That would be like cursing Santa... both are non-existent.
Why do you look at death as 'the last storm'? According to your religion, death for a christian is the beginning of eternal life worshiping your god (can't think of anything more like hell than that) and those who don't by the BS, death is simply the end of life - a natural occurrence experienced by all living things at some point in time. Sounds good to me, I can't think of anything more tiresome than living forever... especially if it requires groveling on my knees and singing praises to a sadistic, egotistical god day in and day out for all eternity. That would be pure hell.
According to you, all storms are created by your god as tests of faith. I say pooy to that. Cause and effect are what rules the Universe. No god required.
So much more good could be accomplished, imo, if more people realized that this is it, our one and only chance to get it right, the only forgiveness available is from those you offend and the only salvation from sin is to change your attitude and behavior.
I once was blind but, now I see... NO GOD REQUIRED.
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
Yes, this is exactly what these people think about people they know nothing about. That's what makes this faith for these people 'exciting', why it 'works so well for them', and why they can't comprehend why everybody doesn't believe in Jesus, and believe that strangers get mangled for all the 'right' reasons.
Us atheists are just fucked in the head for feeling any sorrow for those human tragedies, when we should be thankful...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
Sandy,
Like I said a disadvantage to being human is that we don't have a "backstage pass" - we don't know why things happen. In the case of Job we are let in on what was going on behind the scenes - which even Job never found out. So he handled the disaster not knowing.
The meteorologists are getting pretty good at predicting when and where a tornado will strike. If people were smart (and could afford it, which most can't) they would all have storm cellars in their yard. Those who get caught off guard simply happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If life were 'fair' we would all live in a world where every building were built to withstand all disasters. Unfortunately, we don't. Probably the mentality that says, 'God will take care of me' is what caused so many otherwise preventable deaths.
If I get killed in a tornado, it will be because I haven't forked out the money it costs to build a storm cellar - not because some invisible god wants me dead.
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
While it appears Fonzie has made himself scarce. I have a faint suspicion he might still be following this thread. In which case, I'd like to pose this question, on the off chance he sees it:
Fonzie,
There are no theists on operating tables.
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
Sandy,
If red and you want to make up what you "divine" other people are thinking then attack it go ahead if you want to have total disregard for truth and the "logic" you have been blowing about. If you ask me that's the essence of "lazy thinking". (and you do the same with God BTW in your writing here)
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
3:17 and fonzie has officially left the building.
I think I heard something about a backstage pass, are we in a theatre and if so are we the actors or the audience.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Neither - more like props and set dressing.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Well that makes sense, now.
I've heard some will do all kinds of sinful acts in order to score a backstage pass...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110501/ap_on_re_us/us_severe_weather
It's funny, if tornado's kill people and destroy homes christians seek solace in "god". Can anything happen which would make christians think ill of this invisible guy?
I think not.
Other christians either think they deserved it or he is testing them, amazing really.
I like the deacons quote: "You might say, `Where was God in all of this?' But I think he's still providing protection. God didn't kill those people. The storm did. He preserves lives."
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
Sandy,
I have no doubts whatsoever that the God Who sent His Son to die for my sin is doing everything exactly right even though what is seen on the surface can be confusing. God's love shown in the cross is the guarantee of all guarantees - the promise of all promises. It's like flying by instruments - if you go by what you "feel" when there's no visibility what you "feel" won't be what the instruments are telling you. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding". You can't even cut a precise fit board by "feel" - how can you run your life by feel? Seen rightly everything done by God is right.
Running the weather or understanding why everything that happens in the universe happens isn't my job - or yours. I've gone through some disasters and had hope, prayed, and see good that has come from it. Sure, I try to avoid disaster by design - not being at "Babe's Tavern" at 3 AM for example (after reading about several incidents it would seem logical). But you may be prepared for the tornado disaster then be in a traffic disaster. You can't make the world risk free - not even with all the logic and understanding you can gather.
The security I'm talking about is spiritual security. Your spiritual house will withstand even the "last storm" - the storm of death - if it is built on the foundation of the Rock, which is Jesus. Job's spiritual house stood against not only the physical storms but the spiritual assault of "why"? Also it withstood the assault of "unbelief" accusing God. There is an inner and outer fight going on even now. What hope do you have to offer those going through the tornado disaster for the inner fight? It seems like your answer is "be prepared for everything". Is that logic and reality? If so that's an imaginary doctrine.