It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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This is what Fonzie can't get his head around.
WE are quite willing to take his word for it that "It works for him", but he can't imagine how an alternative world view could possibly 'work' at least as well, or better (however you would possibly measure that), for someone else, because he has never experienced the freedom of a truly open view on "Life, the Universe, and Everything".
I can't help thinking his long persistence here suggests he has, despite his confidence, a nagging doubt when he sees so many examples of confident, relaxed, non-believers, which contradicts his core belief that denial of God must lead to misery and a tortured soul, or something along those lines. He can't leave until he can find some crack in our confident facade, some anxiety about the consequences of our 'rejection' of his Daddy.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Um...Bob, you're a high level mod, right ? Can you maybe tell me what the deal is with allowing trolls to register again under another name, so they can get rid of their badge ?
Seriously, this guy has been doing this for almost 4 years. When the mods here (hamby and deludedgod, I think) closed down his first thread and sent him to trollville, (and eventually closed his thread there as well, as he was pulling the same crap there) they weren't just on a powertrip. They were almost absurdly patient with him, and they explained their decision to give him the badge in detail.
I mean, what's the point of mods if we're going to allow trolls to just shrug of any decision they make ?
Just exactly how obvious does Fonzie/meph have to make it that he's not interested in the answers to the questions he keeps repeating ?
I personally don't recall any previous incarnations of this guy. Not saying he wasn't posting before, in a manner deserving such treatment.
Based on this thread, he seems to be just an ongoing and mildly amusing example of one kind of theist who just can't let go for some reason. He doesn't seem to be anywhere as annoying and abusive as people like Jean Chauvin, who Brian was prepared to tolerate, especially while he seemed to stimulate more people to post in response.
I think we are more concerned about explicitly insulting and abusive behaviour.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I know. You missed his first two threads.
Actually, he can get quite abusive when he feels like it, but that's not what bothers me. (I'm more annoyed by him trying to redefine the meaning of the word "yes", dodging questions for years, and repeating his own questions no matter how many times they get answered, and absurdly, still claiming we never answered him, and stuff like that..)
I just want to know if it's allowed for trolls to get rid of their badge by registering again under another name. (Btw, I can prove it's the same guy)
If it is, then I will gladly stop asking him questions he doesn't want to answer, and I will stop explaining to people who want to post here exactly why they're wasting their time.
So pretty please, once and for all, is it okay with all you mods that trolls do this ?
Yes or no ?
I don't think I can give a definitive answer right now, but my impression from recent comments from Brian is that we try to give them the benefit of the doubt, if they really have largely stopped the kind of posts which got them trolled before.
However, think I will post a comment in the mod forum, see what the others think, but Brain Sapient in particular.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Thank you.
Sorry to bring this up in the thread itself. I actually PMed both you and Brian about this, but I guess only paying members can do that.
Here's what Hamby had to say about this guy when they stopped his first thread :
He's basically just rephrased questions here that he already got answered in his first thread, only to ask them again after they got answered here as well.
He even brought up evolution here again, after Deludedgod wrote and re-wrote his essay on the subject specifically for him.
I could go on for a while, but in short, no, he hasn't stopped making the kind of posts that got him trolled before.
rob,
If your atheism is working so well for you why do you go beyond reasoning to a demonic attack of what works for me unless you are shaky in your position? It seems like this approach betrays a repressed insecurity that calls for a endless parading of insignificant "reasons" for being an atheist as if to convince yourself and other paraders and parade - goers. I haven't seen any good reason for being an atheist that goes deeper than a harlot's promise. If you have it why don't you lay it out without attacking the part of us that you don't have.
How long is this freakin thread and how long does someone go patiently while trying to explain something. "Demonic" yea we are back to your theology ..oh nm we never left it did we, can't even take a break from it can we.
Call it "tough love" or pretend I am a demon trying to sway you from your "faith" whichever suits you.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Well, counting his earlier work, we're coming up to 4 years now.
The record for patience with this guy goes to JCgadfly, who's been explaining the same stuff, over and over and over again, for about 3 years.
Come back here in a year (or a week. Heck, a few days will work just as well), and "Fonzie" will ask you all the same questions you already answered all over again.
It'll be as if you never spoke to him at all.
Such fun, eh ?
Yea I have noted this, we should hand out a memo.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Then you have some high level of emotional dysfunction, which clearly undermined your potential to develop an emotionally disciplined, dispassionate, and pragmatic method of observing reality, and your ability to model, or empathize with other individuals.
The most curious thing, is that your posturing is one of clearly being in a superior or advantageous position, while clearly demonstrating and elaborating on your cognitive shortfalls.
And it's completely intellectually dishonest, as monotheists are as patently atheist as we are, to the other thousands of god myths, since antiquity.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Indeed. Looks like Red hasn't read it yet.
Red, we have a memo for you : When he sez "I haven't seen any good reason for being an atheist", he is simply lying. He's had about 4 years' worth of reasons, and he's acknowledged it as well.
And guess why this thread is over 2000 posts long ?
It's because he doesn't want a dialogue, he wants to preach at you.
I'm happy to let you figure that out by yourself, but he can milk this for pages and pages, so I just think people deserve a warning.
Fonzie, Did you create the "what faith you" thread? That would be the thread titled "what faith you"; created by the user named "mephibosheth" on September 6, 2007 - 5:57pm, and which can be found here.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Yea he is really good at pretending you didn't say something a few pages ago. I would like to suggest it could be multiple people on one acct but the plethora of redundant metaphors would suggest otherwise. Surely someone wouldn't be "cursed" with multiple personalities that all happened to be jesus freaks lol.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Btw he hasn't yet figured out that "being" an atheist is not "being" anything. He is the one with the real label.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
This is for posterity.
I'm aware that he's not fundamentally different than any other theist.
Delusional is delusional.
But if they're going to regurgitate the same canard, a million times, and have it debunked a million different ways, it's just going to demonstrate how dysfuntional and mentally handicapped they really are.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Yeah, but that's already been demonstrated ad nauseam. Do we really need to add another 4 years ?
And btw, he really does have "a high level of emotional dysfunction". He has some serious psychiatric problems. (I'm not being mean. He volunteered that information)
Also....
Ah forget it. I'll let you have the experience. Enjoy.
rob,
And is this an example of explaining something? You threw up a distraction but completely avoided the discussion: i.e., If you are so fulfilled in your atheist position why are you driven to attack mine rather than explain your fulfillment?
Fonzie, if it works so well for you, why are you unable to answer a simple "Yes" or "No" question?
That question, for the severalth + 13 ± µ2 time:
There are no theists on operating tables.
He explained it, you ignored it. Now you ask again. Why should he answer again, if you're just going to ignore his answer again ?
(He's been on your merry-go-round before, btw)
Also, answer the question you've been running from for over a year now :
Fonzie, if it works so well for you, why are you unable to answer a simple "Yes" or "No" question?
That question, for the severalth + 13 ± µ2 time:
Quote:I guess this post of mine answered your question because you've ignored it.
Post 2688, fonzie. Read it if you dare.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Nothing gets past you does it, nose.
My "distraction" was a brief and simple explanation of why one might be fed up with and therefore "attack" an individual who refuses to acknowledge something after 5 million posts. The only problem here is that I'm still talking even though I realize I'm talking to a brick wall and have been for some time, it was disguised as a person.
You think an atheist has some kind of "fulfilling" bs like a religious person thinks they have because you can't imagine not having your delusion. It is unimaginable to you, it is for people like you that I start threads about "role reversal" because a real theist can't actually even pretend there is no god.
I already explained a few times what an atheist has and you pretend I and everyone else have said nothing. Your brain is in a loop.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
jfly,
Yes I saw this. And you are speaking for other atheists - "we"? Can you explain why your courage and respect require disdain for faith in God?
And yes I would like more.
Faith you say? What has faith done for you? I'll tell you what it does for me. It causes people to believe in anything they like and usually this anything amounts to a reason for existence and when so many people think they know it all via "faith" there is no need in progressing as a species. Faith is the progress breaker, the mount we as humans must surmount to progress. I like progress, I do not like stale ancient mythological bullshit. I would like to know why and how we are here, what this universe is etc but "faith" in the mystical is barring the door. You think you have the answer via faith in the bible which is a tool written by ancient men. We are past that now, it is 2011 and people don't do half the shit in the bible now anyway. Burned any animals and taken them to church for an offering lately? Sacrificed any lambs? Sold any slaves? Told a woman to shut the fuck up because god said women are beneath men?
Progress is why I dislike "faith", we have struggled through faith and managed a bit of progress but I imagine what could be were it not for people's blind ignorance and wanton disregard for reality.
I don't care if you have "faith" as long as you keep it at home away from my life, but it comes a knocking everyday in this country.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
And you ignored it and carried on asking the same question.
As per usual, we don't only have to answer your questions several times, we also have to rub your nose in it before you notice.
All the other atheists have also answered your questions. They simply lack JC's patience (and at this point, kindness) to endlessly repeat themselves, and then point that out to you.
Read the quote again.
Is the word "disdain" in there ?
Be honest for once, it's not, is it ?
Would you like it to be ?
Then I suggest you read THE REST OF HIS POSTS THAT YOU'VE BEEN IGNORING FOR YEARS !!!
Man, after all this time, your dishonesty can still be breathtaking.
Fonzie,
We do not disdain faith in god. Many of us look back with many fond memories as we do with our belief in Santa but we know the difference between fact and myth. We disdain the delusion that infects ms=any in which we have commerce and social interaction.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa
http://atheisticgod.blogspot.com/ Books on atheism
And we can tell him that for years and years and years (and we have ! Literally !
), but he will still make that claim.
What we actually say really doesn't matter here.
This conversation is between him and the imaginary atheists in his head.
Us actual real-life atheists are just "distractions", as he puts it.
I'll treat this as a sincere inquiry.
You seem to misinterpret the term 'atheism'.
After listening to countless debates from apologists, it's clear that the term is used as an epithet, as well as a pejorative.
Saying someone is (a)theist', is no different than saying someone is (a)astrology, for not believing in 'astrology'.
To answer your question, he is speaking about himself, but in broad enough terms to describe most other 'non theists'.
I doubt you'd find many people who have a disdain for faith in astrology, because the person who 'believes' in their horoscope, cannot extend that to lecture, condemn, castigate another individuals, in any 'blanket' manner.
Monotheism is distinctly different, in that it is 'divisive' by nature.
It's difficult to get more detailed, as there are many overlaps, and many incompatibilities between different individuals, who happen to only really share the 1 feature, which is not being a 'theist'.
It's like asking what people who don't believe in 'astrology', share in common, other than the 1 feature.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa
http://atheisticgod.blogspot.com/ Books on atheism
I used "we" because I see these qualities in more atheists than just myself. Can you see the qualities that you claim work for you in other Christians? since your God is solely of your devising, I doubt it.
More will be forthcoming, Can you give any in response? Give me some qualities that make the god of your creation work for you and you'll get more from me.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Did you see this?
There are no theists on operating tables.
I don't have many fond memories of "santa" that motherfucker opened the boxes my dad sent me and stole some of my shit to sell to the neighbors.
Further on faith I do like "faith" when it is used to describe say "a faithful friend" or maybe just faith you can have in someone or something you trust that is tangible and real. Not the "blind faith" in just trusting that such a thing exists in the first place, especially when you claim it has all the answers. It sux and impedes progress as I already mentioned.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa
http://atheisticgod.blogspot.com/ Books on atheism
Really wish I had taken this brain to school.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Um.....why ?
Everything you just told him has been explained almost non-stop for about 4 years. He doesn't care. He doesn't want an answer. I fail to see how he can make that any clearer.
*sigh* Sorry, carry on. Just as long as I can say "told you so" , when you hit the brick wall of his ridiculous dishonesty. Again.
In the meantime, let's see him treat this as a sincere inquiry :
Quote:
Every time I run into Christians that act like normal people and I think about going back I come here and read fonzie's stuff and realize that the Christians that act like normal people are in the minority.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Dude I hate to say it but he was not by any means "normal" from his very first post, lol. "I love the bible and believe all of it" ..orly..
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I know Fonzie's not normal but occasionally I run into Christians that are not complete asshats. Fonzie reminds me that those Christians that I have met are the minority. Numbnuts like fonzie are (regrettably) the majority.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
The only thing good about this whole thread is reading input from other non-believers, Fonzie has really not put anything new on the table nor has he been able to actually make me think about anything other than what has been considered already.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
jfly,
I show you more respect than you show yourself in this lame statement. If you know I am the problem then it's your responsibility.
But if you get yourself out of the way I'm sure you'll find that I'm no problem.
1. When did your dishonesty become my responsibility?
2. If your answers to my posts are your idea of showing respect to me, please disrespect me ASAP.
3. It's funny how all I have to do to "get myself out of the way" is to put you and your God (in that order) in it. I'd rather not have any blocks at all, thanks. Not being like you "works for me".
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Here's some more "how atheism works for me (and others)"
1. A peace that comes from understanding rather than one than bypasses it.
2. The understanding itself that is used to operate in the world rather than blindly trusting one's pastor or a book to deal with the world for you.
3. A respect for one's self that can't be gained by worshiping a deity that thinks you're worthless (but loves you anyway?).
4. A clarity of thought that allows one to see things for what they are as opposed to needing magic to make things what one would like them to be.
5. The humility to see and acknowledge one's place in the world rather than deluding yourself into believing that your allegiance to an invisible friend makes you "special".
6. The desire to improve and grow instead of wanting to remain the child of your invisible friend.
7. The ability to be accountable to the other members of society rather than hiding from taking responsibility for one's actions because you're "forgiven".
How does Jesus "work for you" again? You've never actually said, have you?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Fonzie,
You show yourself less respect than I by not answering this question:
There are no theists on operating tables.
J-fly,
I think you're a little too fulfilled and assuming to consider things that work for me. But I'll take that as a rhetorical question.
The one really important thing I have to say about this thread:
Heeeeyyyyyyyy ....
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
You make a very strong argument
lol
So... Fonzie, are you going to teach me the error of my ways? I think you missed my post a few pages back, asking for you to perhaps start a new thread.
What do you say? you and I? My relative morals v.s. your biblical absolutes? You show me how I'm wrong. The offer still stands, I'm willing to learn if you're willing to teach me.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
I'm kinda getting the feeling that Fonzie found Jeebus through Alcoholics Anonymous...