It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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Offline Rob,
By rejecting faith in God you detach yourself from the very thing that makes a man what a man is designed to be. You are making yourself instead like an eagle that can't fly.
As far as the ideas of what needs to be done for our fellow man with government programs - weren't all those being provided for those rioting in the UK? They weren't truly helped by those things - or fulfilled. They had free ( , , , , ) but it didn't work, it didn't produce the utopia you and Sandy infer.
Or was this comparable to (not the real thing) but false examples of Christianity? Did they just not apply their "concern for the starving" in the right way, from your expert's book? Why didn't all the programs make them "realize how precious life really is" and not burn down their fellow man's property? They didn't seem that "religious" so I don't think that's the problem ........... do you?
He wasn't talking to you.
That guy in #2909 ,on the other hand, asked you a question.
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Fonzie wrote:Rob,
You have passion which is more refreshing than apathy, but your passion indicates a confidence you have within yourself which has you lifted up looking down on me with disdain.
statement incapsulates the inherent nature of christianity.
By the way, Fonzie, hope all's well in your life.
Atheist - to the Extreeeemmmmiiisssst,
All is well and thanks. I would have it that way for you.
I think this statement of yours reveals yet another atheist error - incapsulation of Christ - by what is falsely called knowledge. When the time capsule is opened... it will be too late. You are falling for the biggest deception ever in your fellowship with the eternal lie. Your regret will be a worm that will never die.
Yet the Gift of Life in Christ is at hand even today - and available through the righteousness of faith, faith in Christ. Will you continue to incapsulate and shelve it?
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Offline I think this statement of yours reveals yet another atheist error - incapsulation of Christ - by what is falsely called knowledge. When the time capsule is opened... it will be too late. You are falling for the biggest deception ever in your fellowship with the eternal lie. Your regret will be a worm that will never die.
Yet the Gift of Life in Christ is at hand even today - and available through the righteousness of faith, faith in Christ. Will you continue to incapsulate and shelve it?
You don't know what "incapsulate" means, do you ? Would have been less embarrassing for you if you just admitted that, or looked it up first.
Why didn't you answer that question in post 2909 ?
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Offline Fonzie wrote:I think this statement of yours reveals yet another atheist error - incapsulation of Christ - by what is falsely called knowledge. When the time capsule is opened... it will be too late. You are falling for the biggest deception ever in your fellowship with the eternal lie. Your regret will be a worm that will never die.
Yet the Gift of Life in Christ is at hand even today - and available through the righteousness of faith, faith in Christ. Will you continue to incapsulate and shelve it?
You don't know what "incapsulate" means, do you ? Would have been less embarrassing for you if you just admitted that, or looked it up first.
Why didn't you answer that question in post 2909 ?
Ant,
Learning doesn't embarrass me. Give me your definition.
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Offline Ant,
Learning doesn't embarrass me. Give me your definition.
I'm not sure who you're talking to this time, or what you're talking about, but you still seem to be ignoring the only person who actually wants to talk to you. In post 2909, somebody asked you a question.
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Offline Fonzie wrote:Ant,
Learning doesn't embarrass me. Give me your definition.
I'm not sure who you're talking to this time, or what you're talking about, but you still seem to be ignoring the only person who actually wants to talk to you. In post 2909, somebody asked you a question.
Ant,
You admittedly have a sock puppet avatar. Was that somebody you?
As for questions, do you not know that the fall of man started with a question - from the serpent, a sock puppet for the devil? The devil even tried this crap with the LORD - the old "if" game, trying to create doubt about Him being the Only Begotten Son of God.
Atheists have not only fallen to doubt, they have decided to go on to full assurance in doubt. He who doubts most can no doubt rise high on the forum of doubt. They study doubt, share doubt, rejoice in doubt, parade and promote it.
As for Mephibosheth, I don't know what the problem with him was, do you? I have looked at that and wondered why he lost tenure with the doubters. I won't ask you that - I doubt that you know or have it incapsulated. Do you?
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Offline Mephibosheth doesn't know what problems Mephibosheth had with the forum?
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Offline Ant,
You admittedly have a sock puppet avatar. Was that somebody you?
As for questions, do you not know that the fall of man started with a question - from the serpent, a sock puppet for the devil? The devil even tried this crap with the LORD - the old "if" game, trying to create doubt about Him being the Only Begotten Son of God.
Atheists have not only fallen to doubt, they have decided to go on to full assurance in doubt. He who doubts most can no doubt rise high on the forum of doubt. They study doubt, share doubt, rejoice in doubt, parade and promote it.
As for Mephibosheth, I don't know what the problem with him was, do you? I have looked at that and wondered why he lost tenure with the doubters. I won't ask you that - I doubt that you know or have it incapsulated. Do you?
Apart from not answering that guy's question, does anyone know what this person is talking about ?
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Offline Fonzie wrote:Ant,
You admittedly have a sock puppet avatar. Was that somebody you?
As for questions, do you not know that the fall of man started with a question - from the serpent, a sock puppet for the devil? The devil even tried this crap with the LORD - the old "if" game, trying to create doubt about Him being the Only Begotten Son of God.
Atheists have not only fallen to doubt, they have decided to go on to full assurance in doubt. He who doubts most can no doubt rise high on the forum of doubt. They study doubt, share doubt, rejoice in doubt, parade and promote it.
As for Mephibosheth, I don't know what the problem with him was, do you? I have looked at that and wondered why he lost tenure with the doubters. I won't ask you that - I doubt that you know or have it incapsulated. Do you?
Apart from not answering that guy's question, does anyone know what this person is talking about ?
Ant,
That illustrates a general problem on this site - railing against things not understood. What part of doubt do you not understand?
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Offline Antipatris wrote:Fonzie wrote:Ant,
You admittedly have a sock puppet avatar. Was that somebody you?
As for questions, do you not know that the fall of man started with a question - from the serpent, a sock puppet for the devil? The devil even tried this crap with the LORD - the old "if" game, trying to create doubt about Him being the Only Begotten Son of God.
Atheists have not only fallen to doubt, they have decided to go on to full assurance in doubt. He who doubts most can no doubt rise high on the forum of doubt. They study doubt, share doubt, rejoice in doubt, parade and promote it.
As for Mephibosheth, I don't know what the problem with him was, do you? I have looked at that and wondered why he lost tenure with the doubters. I won't ask you that - I doubt that you know or have it incapsulated. Do you?
Apart from not answering that guy's question, does anyone know what this person is talking about ?
Ant,
That illustrates a general problem on this site - railing against things not understood. What part of doubt do you not understand?
Mephibosheth,
Disagreeing with you or asking about your duplicity is not "railing against things not understood". The God of the Bible is not supposed to be the author of confusion, right?
Oh wait, we're talking about the God of the Bible...the one that put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden and commanded the serpent (God's sock puppet) to make sure the humans failed his test.
Why does doubt scare you, Meph? Is an honest "I don't know" so hateful that you have to make things up (even if they contradict your book)?
Doubt leads to knowledge - substituting belief for knowledge leads to stagnation.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline That illustrates a general problem on this site - railing against things not understood. What part of doubt do you not understand?
The part where you avoid answering a question from the only person here who actually wants to talk to you.
Also, you referring to someone asking a question as "railing against things not understood". That's quite baffling as well. Just answering the question would seem a less asinine response.
Why don't you answer his question ? A quick glance at the last few pages here reveals you've been avoiding it for years.
If you're going to make it that obvious that you have something to hide, you can't complain that people are going to insist you answer the question.
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Offline That illustrates a general problem on this site - railing against things not understood.
Ha....ha....haha......
The part where you avoid answering a question from the only person here who actually wants to talk to you.
Fonzie lacks the amount of mental freedom necessary to answer any question that remotely challenges his beliefs, even hypothetically. Just ask him a question like, "If it was shown beyond a reasonable doubt that Christianity was false, would you still be a Christian?" or "What do you value more? The truth, whatever it may be, or your beliefs?", and watch him dance.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
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Offline Fonzie wrote:Antipatris wrote:Fonzie wrote:Ant,
You admittedly have a sock puppet avatar. Was that somebody you?
As for questions, do you not know that the fall of man started with a question - from the serpent, a sock puppet for the devil? The devil even tried this crap with the LORD - the old "if" game, trying to create doubt about Him being the Only Begotten Son of God.
Atheists have not only fallen to doubt, they have decided to go on to full assurance in doubt. He who doubts most can no doubt rise high on the forum of doubt. They study doubt, share doubt, rejoice in doubt, parade and promote it.
As for Mephibosheth, I don't know what the problem with him was, do you? I have looked at that and wondered why he lost tenure with the doubters. I won't ask you that - I doubt that you know or have it incapsulated. Do you?
Apart from not answering that guy's question, does anyone know what this person is talking about ?
Ant,
That illustrates a general problem on this site - railing against things not understood. What part of doubt do you not understand?
Mephibosheth,
Disagreeing with you or asking about your duplicity is not "railing against things not understood". The God of the Bible is not supposed to be the author of confusion, right?
Oh wait, we're talking about the God of the Bible...the one that put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden and commanded the serpent (God's sock puppet) to make sure the humans failed his test.
Why does doubt scare you, Meph? Is an honest "I don't know" so hateful that you have to make things up (even if they contradict your book)?
Doubt leads to knowledge - substituting belief for knowledge leads to stagnation.
Fly,
Yes I know you have a great reverence for doubt, but I have yet to see evidence of what is "falsely called knowledge" that this pursuit has produced. It appears to have only led to multiplied doubts and a vicious panic toward certain faith. Your product doesn't sell your approach.
I have been run over by doubts in the wilderness of broken cisterns and empty wells - but I have found the Fountain of Living Water. Your mocking does not affect the reality of the rest I have entered in by faith in God's Sacrifice. This fact remains eternally: there is no remission of sins except by the shedding of blood; more specifically, the Blood of the Lamb of God. You seem to think there is remission by reformation, or self denial, or God denial, or denial of certainty. Even a casual observer can't see the quality of "rest" in your posts - or the posts of other atheists on this forum. There is only the question of how well each trumpets in the orchestra of doubt and mocking - yes, of what is not understood. You have trumpeted well, but the music is not that of heaven's peace but of alarm and only music to those who don't know the strains of heaven. It is the racket of doubt supported by those with no ear. And the mention of the fact of the racket of doubt scares those who know the lie they are trying to play out.
The rest of God is not far off. But your unbelief will cause you to wander forever in the wilderness of doubt. Sure, a fish out of water is still a fish - but you can't see what a fish can do on land. You are similarly holding yourself back honoring the fool of doubts.
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Offline jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie wrote:Antipatris wrote:Fonzie wrote:Ant,
You admittedly have a sock puppet avatar. Was that somebody you?
As for questions, do you not know that the fall of man started with a question - from the serpent, a sock puppet for the devil? The devil even tried this crap with the LORD - the old "if" game, trying to create doubt about Him being the Only Begotten Son of God.
Atheists have not only fallen to doubt, they have decided to go on to full assurance in doubt. He who doubts most can no doubt rise high on the forum of doubt. They study doubt, share doubt, rejoice in doubt, parade and promote it.
As for Mephibosheth, I don't know what the problem with him was, do you? I have looked at that and wondered why he lost tenure with the doubters. I won't ask you that - I doubt that you know or have it incapsulated. Do you?
Apart from not answering that guy's question, does anyone know what this person is talking about ?
Ant,
That illustrates a general problem on this site - railing against things not understood. What part of doubt do you not understand?
Mephibosheth,
Disagreeing with you or asking about your duplicity is not "railing against things not understood". The God of the Bible is not supposed to be the author of confusion, right?
Oh wait, we're talking about the God of the Bible...the one that put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden and commanded the serpent (God's sock puppet) to make sure the humans failed his test.
Why does doubt scare you, Meph? Is an honest "I don't know" so hateful that you have to make things up (even if they contradict your book)?
Doubt leads to knowledge - substituting belief for knowledge leads to stagnation.
Fly,
Yes I know you have a great reverence for doubt, but I have yet to see evidence of what is "falsely called knowledge" that this pursuit has produced. It appears to have only led to multiplied doubts and a vicious panic toward certain faith. Your product doesn't sell your approach.
I have been run over by doubts in the wilderness of broken cisterns and empty wells - but I have found the Fountain of Living Water. Your mocking does not affect the reality of the rest I have entered in by faith in God's Sacrifice. This fact remains eternally: there is no remission of sins except by the shedding of blood; more specifically, the Blood of the Lamb of God. You seem to think there is remission by reformation, or self denial, or God denial, or denial of certainty. Even a casual observer can't see the quality of "rest" in your posts - or the posts of other atheists on this forum. There is only the question of how well each trumpets in the orchestra of doubt and mocking - yes, of what is not understood. You have trumpeted well, but the music is not that of heaven's peace but of alarm and only music to those who don't know the strains of heaven. It is the racket of doubt supported by those with no ear. And the mention of the fact of the racket of doubt scares those who know the lie they are trying to play out.
The rest of God is not far off. But your unbelief will cause you to wander forever in the wilderness of doubt. Sure, a fish out of water is still a fish - but you can't see what a fish can do on land. You are similarly holding yourself back honoring the fool of doubts.
I think you've hit on the issue. There are indeed people who call doubt knowledge. These are often Christians who don't know what doubt is. There are also people who call a fervently held belief knowledge. These are Christians who don't know what belief is. These groups overlap.
You claim to have found Jesus and he removed your doubts. It is far more likely that you created a version of Jesus that agrees with you so you have decided to stop thinking. I'm not sure why your God would want you to stop thinking. Then again, I don't follow your God.
You also forget that in order for me to believe that there is a remission of sin I have to believe there is sin. Actually on this you and I agree. We both believe that sin doesn't have any hold on us. My reason is the lack of evidence for there being a God to transgress against. Your reasons are that your God agrees with you and your Bible says that it is impossible for you to transgress against the God of that Bible (Christians are not under law but under grace).
I also think that you and I have different definition of "rest". I believe that rest is a comfortable place where one can receive a temporary respite and calm one's thoughts. You believe that the "rest" you get from God is whee you can stop thinking and doing because God will do it for you. That is not rest but stagnation. This explains a lot about your inability to make any progress or work with new information.
Since I'm willing to use the tools that your God supposedly gave me and you have chosen to stop being any use to your God does that make me a better Christian than you?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline Glowering at the Troll, the Scolding Nun pointed again to the writing on the blackboard:
Did you create the "what faith you" thread? That would be the thread titled "what faith you"; created by the user named "mephibosheth" on September 6, 2007 - 5:57pm, and which can be found here.severalth + 24± µ3 time
The Troll trembled with Parkinsonian cowardice beneath Her stern gaze, and began yet another sputtering dodge. But the Scolding Nun would have none of his dishonesty. She held alof Her ruler, ready to bring it hurtling down on his arthritic knuckles, and demanded he answer...
When suddenly, the Gadfly came buzzing by, no doubt following the scent of festering jc!
Relieved at the distraction, the Troll hobbled away in a cloud of dandruff.
There are no theists on operating tables.
| ππ | π† |
| π† | †† |
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Offline Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie wrote:Antipatris wrote:Fonzie wrote:Ant,
You admittedly have a sock puppet avatar. Was that somebody you?
As for questions, do you not know that the fall of man started with a question - from the serpent, a sock puppet for the devil? The devil even tried this crap with the LORD - the old "if" game, trying to create doubt about Him being the Only Begotten Son of God.
Atheists have not only fallen to doubt, they have decided to go on to full assurance in doubt. He who doubts most can no doubt rise high on the forum of doubt. They study doubt, share doubt, rejoice in doubt, parade and promote it.
As for Mephibosheth, I don't know what the problem with him was, do you? I have looked at that and wondered why he lost tenure with the doubters. I won't ask you that - I doubt that you know or have it incapsulated. Do you?
Apart from not answering that guy's question, does anyone know what this person is talking about ?
Ant,
That illustrates a general problem on this site - railing against things not understood. What part of doubt do you not understand?
Mephibosheth,
Disagreeing with you or asking about your duplicity is not "railing against things not understood". The God of the Bible is not supposed to be the author of confusion, right?
Oh wait, we're talking about the God of the Bible...the one that put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden and commanded the serpent (God's sock puppet) to make sure the humans failed his test.
Why does doubt scare you, Meph? Is an honest "I don't know" so hateful that you have to make things up (even if they contradict your book)?
Doubt leads to knowledge - substituting belief for knowledge leads to stagnation.
Fly,
Yes I know you have a great reverence for doubt, but I have yet to see evidence of what is "falsely called knowledge" that this pursuit has produced. It appears to have only led to multiplied doubts and a vicious panic toward certain faith. Your product doesn't sell your approach.
I have been run over by doubts in the wilderness of broken cisterns and empty wells - but I have found the Fountain of Living Water. Your mocking does not affect the reality of the rest I have entered in by faith in God's Sacrifice. This fact remains eternally: there is no remission of sins except by the shedding of blood; more specifically, the Blood of the Lamb of God. You seem to think there is remission by reformation, or self denial, or God denial, or denial of certainty. Even a casual observer can't see the quality of "rest" in your posts - or the posts of other atheists on this forum. There is only the question of how well each trumpets in the orchestra of doubt and mocking - yes, of what is not understood. You have trumpeted well, but the music is not that of heaven's peace but of alarm and only music to those who don't know the strains of heaven. It is the racket of doubt supported by those with no ear. And the mention of the fact of the racket of doubt scares those who know the lie they are trying to play out.
The rest of God is not far off. But your unbelief will cause you to wander forever in the wilderness of doubt. Sure, a fish out of water is still a fish - but you can't see what a fish can do on land. You are similarly holding yourself back honoring the fool of doubts.
I think you've hit on the issue. There are indeed people who call doubt knowledge. These are often Christians who don't know what doubt is. There are also people who call a fervently held belief knowledge. These are Christians who don't know what belief is. These groups overlap.
You claim to have found Jesus and he removed your doubts. It is far more likely that you created a version of Jesus that agrees with you so you have decided to stop thinking. I'm not sure why your God would want you to stop thinking. Then again, I don't follow your God.
You also forget that in order for me to believe that there is a remission of sin I have to believe there is sin. Actually on this you and I agree. We both believe that sin doesn't have any hold on us. My reason is the lack of evidence for there being a God to transgress against. Your reasons are that your God agrees with you and your Bible says that it is impossible for you to transgress against the God of that Bible (Christians are not under law but under grace).
I also think that you and I have different definition of "rest". I believe that rest is a comfortable place where one can receive a temporary respite and calm one's thoughts. You believe that the "rest" you get from God is whee you can stop thinking and doing because God will do it for you. That is not rest but stagnation. This explains a lot about your inability to make any progress or work with new information.
Since I'm willing to use the tools that your God supposedly gave me and you have chosen to stop being any use to your God does that make me a better Christian than you?
Fly,
Ok, you think and you think and you ... think - but what is the over all reason for all your thinking? Why are you thinking and where are you going with it? And what have you come up with?
Do you have a great doubter you can point to that inspires you to doubt and think and hopefully someday bring you to arrive at the same place of doubt he is in before you no doubt die?
What do you know for sure? And in this certainty is any faith involved? (if you say, "no, it's all reason" is any of your almighty "reason" totally pure and oxide free?)
How do you walk or drive a car or get anywhere with all this doubt - isn't it like being confused in traffic, going nowhere, coming from ?wherever?, not knowing if when, why, where is what or what is where, where is ?somewhere?, or nowhere or anywhere - or why it might be, if it is, or if not why, or when it will maybe be if it will be, if ever? Are you like a train on the track or a hovercraft on the flat wilderness or a leaf in the wind - and if so why wind?
If you can't pontificate - how am I supposed to accept you have determined with any certainty (worth considering) the HUGE premise that there is no God? How do you get from all this doubt to that? How is it that the thing you appear to be most certain about is bigger than the universe, yet you lead with doubt on everything?
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Offline And you claim and you claim and you claim...When are you going to support your claims?
I have people who think that I look up to and who inspire me to aspire to things. You seem to take pride in having "someone" who wants you to stop thinking and accept what you're told without examination so that he can spoon feed you and give you a reward that you can't have till after you're dead. What is there to be proud of in your mental infancy? You say you have a good life? How do you know if you haven't examined it and merely took God or your pastor's word for it?
Yes, I have faith that is based on prior observations and expected results. Your faith flies in the face of evidence to the contrary and has none in its support.
Please stop confusing doubt with thought and contingent faith with non contingent faith.
And where did you get that I was certain that there is no God? Are you linking me to your straw man view of atheism? If you are, stop. It makes you look more dishonest than I think you already are. Show me evidence for your God and I'll at least examine it. At present, the God of the Bible makes more sense than whatever mental construct you claim to worship.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline Fonzie lacks the amount of mental freedom necessary to answer any question that remotely challenges his beliefs, even hypothetically. Just ask him a question like, "If it was shown beyond a reasonable doubt that Christianity was false, would you still be a Christian?" or "What do you value more? The truth, whatever it may be, or your beliefs?", and watch him dance.
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Offline And you claim and you claim and you claim...When are you going to support your claims?
I have people who think that I look up to and who inspire me to aspire to things. You seem to take pride in having "someone" who wants you to stop thinking and accept what you're told without examination so that he can spoon feed you and give you a reward that you can't have till after you're dead. What is there to be proud of in your mental infancy? You say you have a good life? How do you know if you haven't examined it and merely took God or your pastor's word for it?
Yes, I have faith that is based on prior observations and expected results. Your faith flies in the face of evidence to the contrary and has none in its support.
Please stop confusing doubt with thought and contingent faith with non contingent faith.
And where did you get that I was certain that there is no God? Are you linking me to your straw man view of atheism? If you are, stop. It makes you look more dishonest than I think you already are. Show me evidence for your God and I'll at least examine it. At present, the God of the Bible makes more sense than whatever mental construct you claim to worship.
Fly,
I am not supporting my claims myself. My confidence is built totally on the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross. Christ lifted up is my confidence through faith - I have entered into the rest of God. He has presented His Own Blood as an offering for all the sin of all men for all time for those who believe in Him. The offering has been accepted by God. Christ has been raised from the dead. I have no doubts.
No one ever made people think or showed people the respect Jesus did. And as far as "pie in the sky in the by and by" you're totally wrong about that. Eternal life has started now - "knowing Christ" is eternal life. I know Who I believe in.
As far as pride goes, there is nothing that keeps pride in check like the power of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The grace of God in Christ is a gift to all who receive it by faith. Pride would interfere with the faith that connects us to communion with God. Thus we fight to avoid that - that's called sanctification, a lifting force. The fact that the Righteousness of God is a gift means it's not a pride thing.
If you think God spoon feeds you must have never had any meat. Plus, God disciplines all sons He receives. Care to be received?
I didn't say I have a "good life" in the sense that I have made it "good" or my works add anything to God's Sacrifice of His Son. God has made it good, abundant. I have examined life and continue to examine it. I'm open to any substance, but I haven't seen any from you. I haven't seen any "evidence to the contrary" concerning anything in the Scriptures. I have seen people who are blind to Scripture try to talk about color - and people tone deaf try to pass criticism of Scripture off as sweet music. But am I supposed to act like you have presented serious evidence against Scripture when you haven't? I would view that as that "more dishonest than sam I am" like you mentioned.
I'm glad you are conscious of faith operating in your life - but realize that "prior observations" and "expected results" are not "proofs" or "evidence" of faith in the sense that you demand evidence for God. I think God gives you the seed of faith - you have responsibility to keep weeds pulled. In time it could grow if you took care of it. It could bloom and flourish and bear fruit. But lack of fear of God, impurity, wrong focus, men's ideas won't make it grow. You need to feed it with the Word of God - and guard the garden of your heart with the Sword of the Spirit. Then the springs of life will flow.
As far as the idea that you are certain that there is no God or for that matter certain about anything - I haven't received a clear update on that. And I haven't heard you say what you are totally certain of - if anything. I see you are trying to create doubt there - a wedge - between me and the Scriptures I believe in but there you are meeting with the total certainty and confidence and focus I have for the living Word of God. There are a lot of things from the Scriptures I don't understand - a lot in Zechariah for example, but, "Lord, where else can we go. You alone have the Words of Truth."
As far as confusing your doubt with your thinking and your contingent faith with non contingent faith? Don't worry - I don't think I can out do you on that.
I've tried to answer all your points. You still haven't told me what all your thinking and doubting has enabled you to come up with. You just bring up again how you think and doubt and think and doubt and think and doubt. You haven't told me how it works, where it goes, why it inspires. You haven't told me what the over all plan is, where the plan came from - or where it goes. Just because a ship is adrift doesn't mean it's going somewhere does it? Just because all the crew on the atheist ship agree there is "nowhere to go" doesn't mean there is no available destination. Ignorance can be ignorantly agreeable with ignorance you know - or..... or...do you?
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Offline The Troll waited hungrily for the Gadfly to respond yet again, but all in vain. For the Gadfly realized that any bite of Logic it inflicted on the scurrilous Troll would become nothing more than a lithium-filled blister.
In frustration, the Troll had to resort to its dwindling supply of suppositories. Yet even as it applied it, it drew its claw back in horror. For its hemhorroids spelled out in braille the message:
Did you create the "what faith you" thread? That would be the thread titled "what faith you"; created by the user named "mephibosheth" on September 6, 2007 - 5:57pm, and which can be found here.
severalth + 25± µ3 time
It struggled to block the words from its deteriorating mind, but over the sound of its chattering gums, its conscience croaked "Dishonesty and intellectual cowardice does not work for me".
There are no theists on operating tables.
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Offline
I am not supporting my claims myself. My confidence is built totally on the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross.
this ever happened outside a doctrine of self promotion.
And do tell me, Fonz, how an immortal deity can die?
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Offline
Fonzie wrote:
I am not supporting my claims myself. My confidence is built totally on the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross.
this ever happened outside a doctrine of self promotion.
And do tell me, Fonz, how an immortal deity can die?
Stream,
The Mystery hidden for ages (into which angels longed to look), the unthinkable - "God became man" in order to save those who believe in Him through the Sacrifice of His Own body on the cross. He willingly died. His blood represents more than physical blood (like animal sacrifices) - it represents the heart and soul of God's love willingly giving Himself up for us - His joy in saving us - just as He charted His course before the world was created through Him. How could He die? Because He is 100% man. So what? Because He is 100% God.
This victory over death putting the powers of evil to an open shame - Christ lifted up - and our seeing it through the eyes of faith has delivered us from lifelong bondage to the fear of death (not by working at ignorance or ignoring death - like the apathetic cow eating grass - but through the power of an Indestructable Life (Christ) - through the death of Death, Christ's Resurrection, (the guarantee of all God's promises). We who are in Christ - "born again" into His body and saving blood (He is the Head of the church, His body), born anew to a new life (all things are made new)....are being powered with the same dynamo that raised Him from the dead, the Spirit of God. This is the life that is life indeed. Faith in God allows a man to be what a man is supposed to be - not like an eagle that can't fly or a fish out of water (to reiterate).
He willingly gave Himself up to die for us - but since the law had nothing on Him (He was sinless). death could not hold Him. Our "Samson" (Christ) lifted the Gates of Death - posts and all - and carried them to the top of the Hill of God. Satan has been defeated. There our Champion awaits our joining Him - and join Him we will. The eyes of faith allow us to see our destination though we are told our imagination is worthless concerning what God has prepared for us. Yet our lowly Savior also dwells with us - nothing can separate us from Him.
Yes as you point out receiving the Gift of God in Christ is through faith, not scientific experiment. Faith calls on every part of our spiritual nature - heart, mind, soul, strength, focus, conscience, honesty, purity, courage, patience, wisdom. If you are determined to reject the Gift of God, to not believe in the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the earth, if you love the lie and the Liar - you will surely be successful in your own doom; however, know that regardless of your "standing" on the atheist forum, regardless of your chains of victimization of your own thinking and the thinking of other unbelievers - you can be delivered in Christ in a flash.....through faith in Jesus Christ and His saving grace. Why kick against the points? Can't you see atheists are going nowhere - and with a shortage of hand-baskets?
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Offline He offered Himself to Himself so that he could change a rule He made (saving us from Himself)?
I guess "all-powerful" doesn't mean "all-efficient".
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline Guys ? What are you doing ?
This person only wants a huge thread so he can point at it and go : "I've been debating atheists for yeeeeears, a whole forum full of them, and they still haven't made a dent in my faith !"
Of course when you read it, you find out he hasn' t actually been debating anybody.
Only, here's the thing : Nobody is going to read it, and he knows that.
So why talk to someone who's just playing a game ? I don't get it.
(I also don't get why some of you think "Jean" is for real, so maybe it's just me)
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Offline Guys ? What are you doing ?
This person only wants a huge thread so he can point at it and go : "I've been debating atheists for yeeeeears, a whole forum full of them, and they still haven't made a dent in my faith !"
Of course when you read it, you find out he hasn' t actually been debating anybody.
Only, here's the thing : Nobody is going to read it, and he knows that.
So why talk to someone who's just playing a game ? I don't get it.
(I also don't get why some of you think "Jean" is for real, so maybe it's just me)
Every once in a while I like posting to someone who makes me look like a frickin' genius?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline "Every once in a while I like posting to someone who makes me look like a frickin' genius...", quipped the Gadfly, and all the other children giggled.
"Silence!" shouted the Scolding Nun, rapping her ruler on the desk. "Do you think Elvis gave up his life (to himself, then took it back 3 days later), so that you can feed old Trolls that never answer questions?"
And a pang of indoctrinated guilt swept over all the children. Even the Extremist Ninja wept tears of sorrow, that his ski mask could not hide.
***
Later that day during recess, the Troll hobbled up to the edge of the playground, his clown suit freshly stained with lithium and Metamucil. But this time, none of the children would come to play with him. Instead, they danced in a circle, singing the hymn they learned at school:
Did you create the "what faith you" thread? That would be the thread titled "what faith you"; created by the user named "mephibosheth" on September 6, 2007 - 5:57pm, and which can be found here.severalth + 26± µ3 time
There are no theists on operating tables.
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Yeah - I look at Fonzie as a sort of therapy - like a muslim throwing stones at the kaaba. His dogma is so fundamentalist I can't help wondering if he's a poe with a very odd sense of humour.
He always goes back to bible threat as a way to push his point of view and he never crawls out from under his bridge.
At least he admits christianity is a construct of the human imagination. That's a step in the right direction...
Zara - I'm appreciating your relentless niggle. Hilarious.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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The Mystery hidden for ages (into which angels longed to look), the unthinkable - "God became man" in order to save those who believe in Him through the Sacrifice of His Own body on the cross. He willingly died. His blood represents more than physical blood (like animal sacrifices) - it represents the heart and soul of God's love willingly giving Himself up for us - His joy in saving us - just as He charted His course before the world was created through Him. How could He die? Because He is 100% man. So what? Because He is 100% God.
This victory over death putting the powers of evil to an open shame - Christ lifted up - and our seeing it through the eyes of faith has delivered us from lifelong bondage to the fear of death (not by working at ignorance or ignoring death - like the apathetic cow eating grass - but through the power of an Indestructable Life (Christ) - through the death of Death, Christ's Resurrection, (the guarantee of all God's promises). We who are in Christ - "born again" into His body and saving blood (He is the Head of the church, His body), born anew to a new life (all things are made new)....are being powered with the same dynamo that raised Him from the dead, the Spirit of God. This is the life that is life indeed. Faith in God allows a man to be what a man is supposed to be - not like an eagle that can't fly or a fish out of water (to reiterate).
He willingly gave Himself up to die for us - but since the law had nothing on Him (He was sinless). death could not hold Him. Our "Samson" (Christ) lifted the Gates of Death - posts and all - and carried them to the top of the Hill of God. Satan has been defeated. There our Champion awaits our joining Him - and join Him we will. The eyes of faith allow us to see our destination though we are told our imagination is worthless concerning what God has prepared for us. Yet our lowly Savior also dwells with us - nothing can separate us from Him.
the christian warrior's assertion blunderbus in excellent working order...
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Offline
Fonzie wrote:
The Mystery hidden for ages (into which angels longed to look), the unthinkable - "God became man" in order to save those who believe in Him through the Sacrifice of His Own body on the cross. He willingly died. His blood represents more than physical blood (like animal sacrifices) - it represents the heart and soul of God's love willingly giving Himself up for us - His joy in saving us - just as He charted His course before the world was created through Him. How could He die? Because He is 100% man. So what? Because He is 100% God.
This victory over death putting the powers of evil to an open shame - Christ lifted up - and our seeing it through the eyes of faith has delivered us from lifelong bondage to the fear of death (not by working at ignorance or ignoring death - like the apathetic cow eating grass - but through the power of an Indestructable Life (Christ) - through the death of Death, Christ's Resurrection, (the guarantee of all God's promises). We who are in Christ - "born again" into His body and saving blood (He is the Head of the church, His body), born anew to a new life (all things are made new)....are being powered with the same dynamo that raised Him from the dead, the Spirit of God. This is the life that is life indeed. Faith in God allows a man to be what a man is supposed to be - not like an eagle that can't fly or a fish out of water (to reiterate).
He willingly gave Himself up to die for us - but since the law had nothing on Him (He was sinless). death could not hold Him. Our "Samson" (Christ) lifted the Gates of Death - posts and all - and carried them to the top of the Hill of God. Satan has been defeated. There our Champion awaits our joining Him - and join Him we will. The eyes of faith allow us to see our destination though we are told our imagination is worthless concerning what God has prepared for us. Yet our lowly Savior also dwells with us - nothing can separate us from Him.
the christian warrior's assertion blunderbus in excellent working order...
Steam,
Anything but discuss the issues. Anything but substance from the atheists who just want to parade around and yell "there is no God". The house special is a flash mob where most don't even know what the riot is about.
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Offline Asked and answered, meph.
You've had your issues discussed so often (and ignored by you just as often) that we can simply go to post numbers.
You, however, have some questions to clear up. You know what they are.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline Guys ? What are you doing ?
This person only wants a huge thread so he can point at it and go : "I've been debating atheists for yeeeeears, a whole forum full of them, and they still haven't made a dent in my faith !"
Of course when you read it, you find out he hasn' t actually been debating anybody.
Only, here's the thing : Nobody is going to read it, and he knows that.
So why talk to someone who's just playing a game ? I don't get it.
(I also don't get why some of you think "Jean" is for real, so maybe it's just me)
Anto,
You have the quack of anonymouse and legs of the same duck.
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Offline You're accusing someone of sock puppetry, meph?
Is that really the best argument Christians have? "You do it too"?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline You have the quack of anonymouse and legs of the same duck.
I'm not the only one, it seems : http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/29545 (Post 43)
So are you going to answer that guy's question ?
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Offline You're accusing someone of sock puppetry, meph?
Is that really the best argument Christians have? "You do it too"?
Fly,
Since when did you get hit by such a swat of seriousness toward a comment? Is this your new "zero tolerance" posting? It's just the quack and the legs, fly - nothing more. With you - it's the flight pattern and fly destiny.
You keep referring to these "answers of atheist substance" that don't exist except by empty faith in overblown extrapolations. If you give the post numbers it's just a virtual cruise to nowhere. When you get there, cruise there, fly there or paddle there, it's just another reference to another reference to another reference... to atheist substance that happened "A LONG LONG TIME AGO in a GALAXY FAR FAR AWAY". It has to be far far away and long long ago so it can't can't be verified because it's not not true. It's called faith in distance and delusion I guess.
Nope, there hasn't been any atheist substance that I've seen. There's been several runs up and down the jazz scale of indifference and hostility, but that's it, all the safe notes that go nowhere. Then you just re-frame it and refer to it as a proud example of an answer. I've checked the numbers, yes. I've knocked on the atheist doors. Hello! Hello! Where's the "substance center"? All I get is flies and quacks, fish out of water and eagles that can't fly!
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Offline Serious, meph? Me? No, I just appreciate a good bit of irony.
I understand that you don't like the answers to your questions. I know that it's scary to think that you have to bring a purpose to life instead of letting God do it for you. It's hard to have to work for what you need and want instead of thinking that God will magic it up for you.
That doesn't mean your questions haven't been answered.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline I've checked the numbers, yes. I've knocked on the atheist doors. Hello! Hello! Where's the "substance center"? All I get is flies and quacks, fish out of water and eagles that can't fly!
These "numbers" aren't hard to find, so I had a look too.
Turns out there have been quite a few lengthy discussions between you and the people on this forum (who have exercised almost unbelievable patience in their dealings with your puzzling mendacity), and funnily enough, your reaction at the end of those discussions is radically different from the one you're spouting here.
In fact, it's the complete opposite.
So what exactly do you hope to gain with this continuous posting of these transparent lies ?
There also seem to be an awful lot of posts in this thread where you dramatically demand evidence of things you said yourself, which people then post for you, and which you then proceed to ignore completely, only to demand that very same evidence again a few pages later.
?????
I mean, why do you do that ?
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Offline You are saying faith is too much for God to demand. You don't have faith in God - but you have faith in your decision to reject faith in God. Have your approaches always proved right? Has some person you have had faith in (based on your idea of "evidence) always proved faithful? Have you never been surprised by something someone you have faith in does - out of the blue - something your "proofs" didn't allow you to predict? You wouldn't be able to function without faith. Faith to a man is like flying to an eagle. Your faith is just in something, man's ideas, yourself or anything other than God.
You want God to come and pay you a visit, to speak to you from the sky? He did that to Israel but it didn't produce faith. Let's face it - faith is not a trifle. You can't maintain faith without (wholeheartedly) guarding it, defending it, feeding it from the Word, applying it, exercising it. And there's the courage aspect you see in the men of faith in the Bible and martyrs.
The anchor of faith is more valuable than gold when the storm would destroy the ship. The anchor of faith in truth, in God, in Christ keeps you from losing progress. It doesn't keep you from being tossed or getting seasick however. And as you mentioned, you failed in faith. Whether you have just fallen" or "fallen away" I can't say. But the problem isn't that faith isn't real or that God isn't faithful or that the promise isn't sure.
Just admit you didn't have what it takes to follow Jesus in faith.
---
Yes as you point out receiving the Gift of God in Christ is through faith, not scientific experiment. Faith calls on every part of our spiritual nature - heart, mind, soul, strength, focus, conscience, honesty, purity, courage, patience, wisdom...
Sorry, but the faith you feel is just your brain playing a joke on you.
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Offline Serious, meph? Me? No, I just appreciate a good bit of irony.
I understand that you don't like the answers to your questions. I know that it's scary to think that you have to bring a purpose to life instead of letting God do it for you. It's hard to have to work for what you need and want instead of thinking that God will magic it up for you.
That doesn't mean your questions haven't been answered.
Fly,
Yes, you're the actor. You should get a Tony for acting like atheists have answered with substance. And who would you thank? And who would give it? And what would it be worth?
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Offline Yes, you're the actor. You should get a Tony for acting like atheists have answered with substance. And who would you thank? And who would give it? And what would it be worth?
What are you talking about ?
I already explained, it makes no sense for you to keep lying. People can read.
No atheist have answered with "substance" ? A little earlier on in this thread, you were singing quite a different song.
People have already pointed this out to you. You then pompously demanded they show where that happened. They did. And you went on as if nothing had happened.
And why do you keep running away from that one question people here have to keep repeating ?
Like I said, if you make it that obvious that you have something to hide, people are going to insist you answer the question.
So answer it.
You don't really seem to have anything else to do.
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Offline jcgadfly wrote:Serious, meph? Me? No, I just appreciate a good bit of irony.
I understand that you don't like the answers to your questions. I know that it's scary to think that you have to bring a purpose to life instead of letting God do it for you. It's hard to have to work for what you need and want instead of thinking that God will magic it up for you.
That doesn't mean your questions haven't been answered.
Fly,
Yes, you're the actor. You should get a Tony for acting like atheists have answered with substance. And who would you thank? And who would give it? And what would it be worth?
Since the only answers you're looking for are the ones that say "You're so right meph. I see the error of my ways. Jesus is Lord and meph is his prophet" I doubt if you'll find them.
You forget what an award is for. It is a recognition of achievement. It would be given by a peer in the field. I would most likely thank teachers, colleagues, family, etc. - those who gave me support, training and opportunity.
Earned recognition is worth more than God's "I allowed you to kiss my ass all your life so here's heaven".
Admit it, you re just wanting me to talk about you in an acceptance speech like Cruise talks about L. Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline "It's therapy you want?" the Scolding Nun said crossly to the Ninja. "FEEDING TROLLS IS NOT THERAPY! I'll show you therapy!", she boomed, and seizing him by the nunchucks, she marched him down the hall to the Big Nurse.
She then stalked out onto the playground where the Troll was lurking in the bushes, scrounging for discarded lithium pills. Again, she thrust her ruler at it and demanded,
Did you create the "what faith you" thread? That would be the thread titled "what faith you"; created by the user named "mephibosheth" on September 6, 2007 - 5:57pm, and which can be found here.
severalth + 27± µ3 time
The children squirmed in their eagerness to make more mischief, but then they remembered the words of the wise Mouse:
So if you must feed this troll (and it seems he leaves us no choice), then at least feed him something he doesn't like
And neither the Gadfly, the Ninja, nor even Luca (who lived on the 2nd Floor) said another word, and like good children, they sat back to let the Scolding Nun finish the battle.
There are no theists on operating tables.
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I am in agreement with you. We should jut let this thing fall to the bottom and end.I am done responding to this nonsense too.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Rob,
You have passion which is more refreshing than apathy, but your passion indicates a confidence you have within yourself which has you lifted up looking down on me with disdain. Your irritability and sensitivity to the subject of God and Christ and His substitutionary death for all the sins of all men for all time betrays your insecurity in your flight. You can't discuss it like geometry. You demagogue it - indeed your emotional propeller spins out spit of your frustration.
These are the days of miraculous things without miracles. Men like you are being raised from spiritual death to life in Christ - abundant life - through the power of the gospel received through faith. There's no need for raising the dead or putting the ear back or feeding 5000 - those have been done and the evidence is there to see with the eye of faith.
The deceitfulness of sin has produced a plethora of men like you who don't realize unbelief is the sin of sins. You and they parade your shared unbelief, champion your unbelief, praise your unbelief - but still you are nervous flying in the heavens the LORD made and over the raging sea the LORD rules - still in your pride following your own counsel and diligently repeating, "there is no God".
Consider whether the nervous passion you have about God and the gospel is not the evidence you have been looking for in itself and land and carefully consider. Today is the day of salvation. When you hear His voice don't harden your heart.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Rob,
I would have thought you learned in third grade that "you can pick your friends and pick your nose but you can't pick your friend's nose". You get to speak for you: robj101. You don't get to post something and represent it as something I said, ok? I won't do that to you and it's pretty rude if not a violation of the rules of this forum for you to do it to me. Your doing this only illustrates the truth of what I actually said; which was,
Rob,
You have passion which is more refreshing than apathy, but your passion indicates a confidence you have within yourself which has you lifted up looking down on me with disdain. Your irritability and sensitivity to the subject of God and Christ and His substitutionary death for all the sins of all men for all time betrays your insecurity in your flight. You can't discuss it like geometry. you demagogue it - indeed your emotional propeller spins out spit of your frustration.
These are the days of miraculous things without miracles. Men like you are being raised from spiritual death to life in Christ - abundant life - through the power of the gospel received through faith. There's no need for raising the dead or putting the ear back or feeding 5000 - those have been done and the evidence is there to see with the eye of faith.
The deceitfulness of sin has produced a plethora of men like you who don't realize unbelief is the sin of sins. You and they parade your shared unbelief, champion your unbelief, praise your unbelief - but still you are nervous flying in the heavens the LORD made and over the raging sea the LORD rules - still in your pride following your own counsel and diligently repeating, "there is no God".
Consider whether the nervous passion you have about God and the gospel is not the evidence you have been looking for in itself and land and carefully consider. Today is the day of salvation. When you hear His voice don't harden your heart.
The way it works then Rob is that maybe YOU have an answer. I don't write what I think your answer is and say it's you. It's pretty simple actually. Hopefully you can discern the difference.
The very thing you atheists post as your national bird - UNBELIEF IN GOD - is the reason you keep yourselves from entering the rest of God, now and eternally. There are plenty of flying lessons for faith to be had, but you atheists insist on crawling on the earth like reptiles, or "virtual flying" - playing "bird man" aloft on your airs of pride. Or, you have a "righteous packet" you have designed yourself which you follow rigorously to deceive yourself that you're more righteous than,...... even God. You know better how to run things than God. You're going to tire trying that, believe me. Oh, I forgot, you don't believe anything. What you do is "channel"? It is a debate Rob and if you have something to say - you say it. You don't speak for me or God.
Well, if it was a really good friend, I might pick their nose. Like, maybe my girlfriend broke both of her arms somehow and has a cold.
Ha....ha.....haha.
Without God, there's nothing to believe in. *sob* All is nothingness and despair!
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
TG,
I notice you have never answered. Are you fooling yourself here? Is it not true that you are doing several things in faith even now - just faith in something other than God?
In your post there is a cry for something other than faith. Hasn't it ever happened that the very solution to a problem turns out to e something you have long rejected?
You are saying faith is too much for God to demand. You don't have faith in God - but you have faith in your decision to reject faith in God. Have your approaches always proved right? Has some person you have had faith in (based on your idea of "evidence) always proved faithful? Have you never been surprised by something someone you have faith in does - out of the blue - something your "proofs" didn't allow you to predict? You wouldn't be able to function without faith. Faith to a man is like flying to an eagle. Your faith is just in something, man's ideas, yourself or anything other than God.
You want God to come and pay you a visit, to speak to you from the sky? He did that to Israel but it didn't produce faith. Let's face it - faith is not a trifle. You can't maintain faith without (wholeheartedly) guarding it, defending it, feeding it from the Word, applying it, exercising it. And there's the courage aspect you see in the men of faith in the Bible and martyrs.
The anchor of faith is more valuable than gold when the storm would destroy the ship. The anchor of faith in truth, in God, in Christ keeps you from losing progress. It doesn't keep you from being tossed or getting seasick however. And as you mentioned, you failed in faith. Whether you have just fallen" or "fallen away" I can't say. But the problem isn't that faith isn't real or that God isn't faithful or that the promise isn't sure.
Just admit you didn't have what it takes to follow Jesus in faith.
The Troll stirred in Its empty tomb, wakened by the faint scent of sawdust and varnish. It wiped the lithium from Its glaucomatic eyes and looked about. It was relieved to see the Mouse was not there to point out Its lies, but the throng of innocent children that used to feed It in the past had left as well.
Using Its asthma inhaler, It inflated some balloons and clutching them in Its arthritic hand, It set out for new victims.
Then suddenly, It croaked in shock and reached for Its pacemaker. For written on the wall in peanut butter and banana was:
It gnashed Its dentures in rage. For Its old enemy Elvis still shimmied the Earth!
There are no theists on operating tables.
statement incapsulates the inherent nature of christianity.
By the way, Fonzie, hope all's well in your life.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
It all goes back to that detachment thing I was talking about. A god, whom you have to imagine in your head, is more "real" than any people who live love and suffer. It's a self imposed illness this "detachment" and religion propogates it. They never consider that "their" god is in their own head. They do think about other people who also believe but theirs is always "special" and "personal". I must report that this detachment seems to be serving a common goal with the media (for example) when a person cares more about britney spears's hairdoo, or with their personal jesus than they do about kids starving in the streets, it serves an ill purpose.
I believe detachment is a good term for the overall state of things and has been since the beginning when one tribe attacked another for worshipping the wrong gods (just an example). If everyone realized how precious life really is then would war and killing still be rampant? It is rampant with this mass detachment religion brings to the table.
Rob,
By rejecting faith in God you detach yourself from the very thing that makes a man what a man is designed to be. You are making yourself instead like an eagle that can't fly.
As far as the ideas of what needs to be done for our fellow man with government programs - weren't all those being provided for those rioting in the UK? They weren't truly helped by those things - or fulfilled. They had free ( , , , , ) but it didn't work, it didn't produce the utopia you and Sandy infer.
Or was this comparable to (not the real thing) but false examples of Christianity? Did they just not apply their "concern for the starving" in the right way, from your expert's book? Why didn't all the programs make them "realize how precious life really is" and not burn down their fellow man's property? They didn't seem that "religious" so I don't think that's the problem ........... do you?