There  is  a  way  forward  ( Off - site ) --

 OP --

    On that last  post on the previous page . .

   Are  we  there  yet ?!??  And, Where   I  am  personally  led,  ..  boy,  wouldn't you like to know (ha)!!

   Edit  --- ** (Edit :: )   Edit   --   I misspelled  chewing, and wrongly typed out something like :  'crewing'   instead,  and that  instead of using gnawing away or chewing on  flowers  that can be consumed safely!)
 

  ^

  This  is  a post   I  posted,  what now  is being quoted noisy one  . . . ?  (?) Whether owed or not, could this be more of that  bulletin board,  issues  much  Fonz ?!?? As  I  really  indicated that I was using this thread for.

   I  wrote  or  posted this . .

 It will cost me, but not much in terms of cost to add this here though. I never said if this is purely symbolic or literalistically literal (See Upload or View Image)

  Unrelated admittedly to this topic . . . I'm am rather boring and have abolutely nothing to report or confess for myself,  as some might have guessed from my points. Bloggists were saying, ''I believe once a cheater always a cheater but I don't know your girl or you. I was told up front if I cheated that was it. Game over, no do again!!'' , ''if you love her.. then love her! If you love her, but don't trust her, let it go. If you love her, but don't trust her, why have your heart ripped out''?" It's an interesting speculation about those  What If's  . .  it's rare to have to have these things come up once people are actually involved.

    Warning  the following is the most superfluous; self-parody; unworthy; & Self-deprecating  truly Superfluous posts  to date  :
 

↑ .. few who find it

↑  Bible bot is a uninspired musty old approach, but  the verse of the day  on this terminal ties in perfect though :

   ** Irregardless of what you know or what you think you know. A tactic is to not  discuss it, used and leading to 'disinformation'.. **

  Funny thing,  a verse of the day . .

Matthew 7:13-14

New King James Version (NKJV)

¹³ “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. ¹⁴ Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

  0 f f  s i t e

  The hidden qualities of the hidden person of the heart are equally hard to find, beloved,.   Safest of all bets  and   the  chances   are there’s a history of some real hurt there (triple-meaning), at the deepest levels.

  Gospel of St. Matthew  Ch. 5 verse  16a -- In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see

   Pic or Image part of comment

I don't 'build my own boat', I go with others who largely share my point of view, and we compare notes. There is much more scope for co-operation, sharing ideas and experiences than you seem to be assuming.

In what sense are you using the term 'reference point' here? It's not something I can easily relate to in my experience, at least not in the this general context. I only use the term in specific contexts, such as when measuring temperature or altitude. I can think of some possible things you may mean by it, but I don't want to jump to conclusions here.

I can think of few, if any, day-to-day situations where referring to a Biblical source or similar could conceivably be relevant or useful to help me in going about my business or pusuing my personal interests. You talk about having a 'reference point' for everything. I honestly don't know what you mean.

So predictable.

  Hhmmm !  --

    So  too the 'a Devil'  remark . . hmm, 'a devil' Ref. --  http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15288?page=77#comment-413756 and/or a devil  http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15288?page=77 Nu #3894 Okay, already, I guess, Some  just  cannot understand,  and it wouldn't help at all now bother with it anyway.  But, For the record,  I was making reference to  Religious Holidays in the Image I made and a message to a part(-ies) being off-site  certainly not a doctrinal statement, mate (View  or  See :: Two Uploaded Images) !!

   Seeing I really dont feel like remarking at all .. so, let some images do the talking instead, NOTE :: Images part of remark . .

  See Uploaded Images . . .

  http://tinypic.com/m/ic7b4j/3

    On & Off -- site  --

     The New Testament  Manuscripts  say . . .

  a.)  ''. . the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of the brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down''

   b.) ''Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again''

  There's a great horror and outcry about some of these 'image' choices.  Hmm!! Yeah,   Ask for before you presume anything  . . next time !! Ref. to the two last pages in this Thread . .

  Sorry to interrupt you guys but I hope you didnt get mean me . . .

 Huh?  More a play on words, than  addressing it to Bob . .

    I got little sleep last night, (with my schedule I get in very early), so for now, bear with me. Please don't get the wrong idea, here. Just incase, To head of any potential confusion, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, the term 'mate' was not directly at Bob in this case. More a play on words for some lurkers than what you may have taken it for. Sorry for the any potential misunderstanding(s), despite the use of the term mate, that was addressed to Fonzie, solely to the OP (but I did want to make something clear to a lurker though).

  The OP, was making a reference to "a devil" if you read the link clearly. In the usage of  term,  that suggest that he may in fact be a devil incarnate is on the site, according to his (the OP's) thinly veiled references and wrong characterization.  Sorry If  I didnt address this specifically where I should have, encase their was any confusion about that, is all.  

 p.p.s. -  Getting much static about these images I am posting.

OFF- Site ::

   Any of those Mamacitas (play on words), I d hope are to be as well as an expressive, positive, and self-confident nature, with a view of good self-control.

   In the Roman Catholic  Faith,  Pregnant women have several patron saints in the Catholic tradition. Fonzie is from a different tradition. No matter what, He (the OP) is to always pass on the message  containing a incorruptible and doctrinally correct soteriology (verse mentioned). Not much thought about that whole walking in a manner worthy ( . . and not to allow for any 'disorder' among the ranks).

  Part(-y -ites) 0ff-site --

  http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/34566 {http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/34566}

   Turning to a lighter mood . . ( please )

   (Alert  Inappropriate sense of humor).  For people who know the real me, it has been very difficult  for them  to come to terms with my ''Delusional Disorder'' -- Apparently, From this profile, I  sufferer from the Delusional Disorder of being a lesbian. I'm sorry the way my pictures are viewed only seem to reinforce, this rare delusion. Not only that but a Lip-stick lesbian, no less; As one DD suffer reported the delusion ran so deep that for someone who thought they were a lesbian,  ''(quote) 'She' possibly had my youngest child artificially inseminated by the brother of one of my many lesbian lovers so that the DNA would be similar to hers''.  I thought many times to myself,  I always knew I was attracted to women (55555, LMAF! love makes a family)!!

But clearly you accept the results of the speculation of your favorite religious authorities even if you don't DIY.

OF COURSE you BELIEVE absolutely that you are getting your information from THE absolute, ultimate source of TRUTH.

But within the finite and intrinsically FALLIBLE context of your own very finite human mind, you have no way of verifying that information,ie, demonstrating that YOU are not being "fooled by it all". You are caught up in the loop of 'logic' where your absolute certainty of the TRUTH of what you BELIEVE has come from the same source of absolute TRUTH as the information itself, and therefore MUST be TRUE.

The world is full of people who believe in many different things with that same absolute conviction, including of course many variations on religious beliefs. We have NO way as individuals to break out of that loop. Only by debating with others of different conviction can we get ANY guidance as to which is more likely to be 'true'.

That RELATIVE LIKELIHOOD of truth is ultimately the best we can honestly hope for, rather than absolute proof.

This problem has been recognize by many thinkers who have proposed various ways to determine which of conflicting assertions is 'most likely' to be true, or most reasonable to accept as true, the most famous one which comes to mind is Occam's Razor. You may have heard of it. William of Occam was an English Franciscan friar and scholastic philosopher and theologian.

From the link:

"In science, Occam's Razor is used as a heuristic (discovery tool) to guide scientists in the development of theoretical models rather than as an arbiter between published models."

So I am not claiming it is THE verification method of Science, but part of the whole process. See Scientific method.

The fact that Science has made tremendous progress in building a consistent 'picture' of the Universe we inhabit is ultimately the only basis we have for continuing confidence in the methodology. The technology we are relying on to conduct this discussion has been built on the scientific approach, whereas alternative, subjective approaches such as yours has lead to the vast number of inconsistent belief systems that have proliferated around the world through history.

So I can tell YOU back with equal validity to "Prate on.   Or paste on.  Or mock on.  Or pontificate on." Even though I have been trying to avoid this debate degenerating into a 'mocking match'.

Meanwhile I will carry on guided by the much more reliable Light of Science.

Bob,

I understand how tradition can get looped - that's a danger - but I think the problem applies lots more to the university world of "teachers teaching teachers how to teach...ahhh...teachers" - remote to experience but big on speculation.  

-"the world is full of people..." (Bob Spence) is that what they call a "straw man" therefore not true or scientific method?  And are you back to honestly "hoping" for relative truth now guided by your science light instead of cursing the gloom and blaming God - like a kid blaming his parents (which when he is aware of  become his own responsibility)?  

True I accept the Word of God as being the Word of God.  It's stayed the same for a lot of years now and yes I can be fooled like you or any person but I am working a different mine here than you.   I am focused on understanding the unchanging Scriptures which claim and prove (to me) to be "God Breathed" - everything they're billed as and cracked up to be and MORE.   I know that's where The Treasure is and keep searching even when the pan doesn't sparkle.  

And I don't think I'm above you (or below either).  Neither do I see where I've prated, mocked or pontificated or been rude to you.  If you can point it out I aim to either explain it from my side or appologize when you can show me where I have "pricked" your scientific bubble or "pricked" something you see as being above and beyond pontificous "pricking".  Maybe you can show me where the discussion started degenerating into a "mocking match".   

(I haven't looked up this razor thing yet but plan to try to see what you see in it)   

Bob,

No need to be sad at all.  I am far more happily trapped,  far more deeply fulfilled, not a little comforted, infinitely hopeful and far more confidently secure than I could have ever imagined to be. And it's getting better and better. 

We all learn things we are interested in (you/me//Vas/Ockham) at the expense of being ignorant of an infinite universe (NO NOT university Bob) of other things.  Whatever it is that we are each familiar with is nothing that even begins to "blip" with what's out there to know.  You haven't even "pricked" the molecule when it comes to knowledge as your much wider education would hopefully tell you.  

Your description of how you have gone about assessing me being "trapped" - and you being delivered by your "much wider education" is interesting and maybe material for a scientific study. But we'll of course keep it simple like a prick from the 14th century razor:  A truly wide education would reveal to the widely educated a much WIDER expanding space of unknown unexplored galaxies of knowledge - leaving the widely educated class pupil of our day sort of isolated and  not more "deeply aware" than a water bug floating on Lake Superior - about to be pricked by the much wider flying bill of a savy seagull.

And all the while I'm just ignorant enough to be comforted, ok I admit,  by the One Who Spoke Heaven and Earth into existence and sent His Son Jesus to die for our sins, be Raised from the dead, and come and habitat with us here now on the stinky ball - even while you sadly view me with disdain from the lofty comfort of your wide 19??/20?? education...which has taught you to tip toe right past eternal spiritual opportunity - and call that a means of transportation.  

I don't think Ben Hur would agree, but that's just me.   

Bob,

I'm sure your "sadness" is a many splendored thing with several roots: - trusting in your own mind, trusting in what you consider your wide education, trusting in other "self- truster trustees", trusting in your false ideas of "truth" - just to name a few.  (Proverbs 28.26)

I think saddness may well be your best hope for escape Bob.

its much simpler than that - I simply have a normal human empathy for my fellow human beings, and seeing someone so blinded by belief to a proper understanding of reality just triggers the little sadness I referred to. If you refuse to trust your own mind to guide your understanding, but have to trust an ancient book, that makes it a little sadder.

Fonzie,

you continue to demonstrate how you have NO idea of what kind of 'world' I see myself inhabiting - where do you get all this 'mainstream world thinker', 'the current of world thinking 'promises to dedicated subscribers' nonsense? I think some of those ideas would match aspects of YOUR world much better than what I see. They certainly don't correspond to mine. That would help to explain how you keep coming up with such fantasies - they are distorted versions of what YOU experience/perceive.

There are countless different 'currents of thought' permeating the world, even if you just consider the fantasy world of 'faith', yours being just one of them. MY 'world' is definitely NOT remotely 'mainstream', not while it includes such strong elements of atheism and general skepticism.

You are obviously firmly subscribed to yours and its promises.

    Constant through the trial and the change, Love remains hun, Love remains

  Poetry corner

  http://tinyurl.com/l8h2uft

  Do you think I will EVER get a chance to spend some time with you . . ?  Oh,  Hun,  .. she knew she was very foolish ; WELL, at least you'll get you to know more about my personality a bit,  IF NOTHING MUCH ELSE.

      I shouldnt forget  this is mainly Attn. T0 --  "Broom-Closet of a church"

  Omni-Site (e.g. --  Real  Life)   P.S. -- I have seen the hurt in the eyes of a  certain female  on five separate occasions.  What kind of  a  monster  she must think me be,  by this time . .  'the Rule' ?

                                                  P.S. -- I have seen the hurt in the eyes of a  certain female  on five separate occasions.  What kind of  a  monster  she must think me be,  by this time . .  'the Rule' ?
 

Just where do get this nonsense?? I repeat, I am NOT in any "mainstream" realm of thinking. A 'common world effort to "live without God" '? More fantasy.

See, here is where we get stuck: you are totally convinced of your perception of your 'truths' and the validity of your 'reference point', while my lifetime (more than half a century) of experience, reading, discussion and debate has lead me to a very different point of view, which I am as personally convinced is a valid a quide to truth as you believe your vision is. Strength of conviction provides no way of resolving which conviction, if any, has sufficient grounds to consider it to be TRUE.

Simply repeating assertions such as 'GOD IS' is a FACT proves nothing.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBu8h1Js5Fg {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBu8h1Js5Fg}

  Teeny-Bopper is our new born queen (..lol) Teeny-Bopper is our new born queen *laugh*

  Serious moment  though . .

 > Interesting Caveat and Background to Sampson's birth . .

  >  http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15288?page=78   Nu # 3918  and/or http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15288?page=78#comment-413941
 

    For those who may never have known much from the Faith, . .

 ^{'' 2} Now there was a certain man from Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren and had no children. ³ And the Angel of the Lord appeared to the woman and said to her, “Indeed now, you are barren and have borne no children, but you shall conceive and bear a son. ⁴ Now therefore, please be careful not to drink wine or similar drink, and not to eat anything unclean. ⁵ For behold, you shall conceive and bear a son. And no razor shall come upon his head, for the child shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb; and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.” ⁶ So the woman came and told her husband, saying, “A Man of God came to me, and His countenance was like the countenance of the Angel of God, very awesome; but I did not ask Him where He was from, and He did not tell me His name. ⁷ And He said to me, ‘Behold, you shall conceive and bear a son. Now drink no wine or similar drink, nor eat anything unclean, for the child shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb to the day of his death.’”  ⁸ Then Manoah prayed to the Lord, and said, “O my Lord, please let the Man of G-d whom You sent come to us again and teach us what we shall do for the child who will be born.”⁹ And God listened to the voice of Manoah, and the Angel of God came to the woman again as she was sitting in the field; but Manoah her husband was not with her. ¹⁰ Then the woman ran in haste and told her husband, and said to him, “Look, the Man who came to me the other day has just now appeared to me!” ¹¹ So Manoah arose and followed his wife. When he came to the Man, he said to Him, “Are You the Man who spoke to this woman?” And He said, “I am.” ¹² Manoah said, “Now let Your words come to pass! What will be the boy’s rule of life, and his work?” ¹³ So the Angel of the Lord said to Manoah, “Of all that I said to the woman let her be careful. ¹⁴ She may not eat anything that comes from the vine, nor may she drink wine or similar drink, nor eat anything unclean. All that I commanded her let her observe.” ¹⁵ Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, “Please let us detain You, and we will prepare a young goat for You.” ¹⁶ And the Angel of the Lord said to Manoah, “Though you detain Me, I will not eat your food. But if you offer a burnt offering, you must offer it to the Lord.” (For Manoah did not know He was the Angel of the Lord.) ¹⁷ Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, “What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?” ¹⁸ And the Angel of the Lord said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?” ¹⁹ So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it upon the rock to the Lord. And He did a wondrous thing while Manoah and his wife looked on— ²⁰ it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar—the Angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar! When Manoah and his wife saw this, they fell on their faces to the ground. ²¹ When the Angel of the Lord appeared no more to Manoah and his wife . . ''

    Any place Other than this site  - - 

   0ff-site Troubles (0ff - site) I cannot help but to feel for  the girls  and for myself, who are always "left out of the loop" . . Always left guessing what any  one thing could mean . .

  Quiet the probable chatter in your MIND . . (Off-site)

  Man, The commentary creates itself . . But, Interesting Caveat  about what ended up happening to Sampson (I'm sure his folks and those poor parents could attest to the heartache, in this example of him)

  p.s. --   Narcissistic  naysayers  said once,  "And many of them said, Surely He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear  him?  Though having tasted of the heavenly gift  ( ~ smirk ) .   Nothing tell me it's against the law seek something that is of pretty much of no advantage to self, or have to worry about every little post either.   !! The commentary creates itself !!  Image part of remark or comment  View  Image or .Gif

   http://media.tumblr.com/fd5c44653c41a4868019ea9ff9b13fc9/tumblr_inline_n5kwxotKkP1qb7oam.gif

   It's not-to waste anybody's time  but curious;  I'm curious what lurkers would make of this image (below) IF I were to say add a Mozillia Ad, what could you begin to read into that for some off-site lurkers, oh, what one  would make of that  ?!??

   http://tinypic.com/m/icr3ux/3

    There can be only one (View LDS photo, Above)

I wrote :: Nothing tell me it's against the law seek something that is of pretty much of no advantage to self, or have to worry about every little post either. 

   Please allow me to help by putting some punctuation in a sentence from this page, if I may be allowed to, as is follows (typeos) ::

 
  Grammatical errors  -

  Large typing errors apparently  -- Maybe the introduction of punctuation, couldn't hurt  : '' Nothing ! Tell me it's against the law, [TO] seek something that is of, pretty much no advantage to self; or [do I] have to worry about every little post either ??!?? ''
 

 Off site  ( Attn. -- This might surprise you, hoss, but most of us here have lives as well, and have to post when it's convenient . . )  --  We all are left speculating with no communication

     (No Subject)

   Re ::  No Subject

  View Image --

    http://tinypic.com/r/25k7yth/8
 

  The future's family .. well,  she always with all these unexpected surprises  I take it  . .

  p.p.s.  --  Other  Off - site --

      Feel like I only miss out on getting a chance to say Hi. Havent made it over, which I am so sorry for that  . .

   Edit --  Edit :: Large typing errors apparently in a few posts on this page !! Striking Grammatical errors DUE TO  BAD  Typing!! And added the "Highlander hoodie (Image)''

     F i n

Bob,

I know what you mean about empty churchy "buzzwords", "phoning it in" and letting the relationship with God degenerate to "autopilot".  And you were more honest about the fact that you can't "prove" your position than I expected.

You are right - in the realm of "faiths" there are many to sort out.  And in the realm of "faith in the gospel of Christ" it is potentially very tricky, and there are forces within and without that would interfere with the navigation;  and it is a trip that needs navigation.  In other words I can't afford to be asleep at the switch.  I have to spiritually "concealed carry" in effect - armor up, watch, guard, be alert.  In one sense it's like a garden - as in being alert for weeds; in another sense it's a war - being on guard for arrows and trouble.  I aim to take every thought captive and interrogate it with respect to the Word of God and in the Light of the Holy Spirit.  As you say these could be just "buzz words" (having only an appearance of something) or I could be using them to describe the reality of my experience.

I mention this to describe to you that I am working at sorting this out in a similar way to you working out your life views, scientific, philosophic or otherwise.  To your view I could be a shallow relligious babbler repeating religious jingle to try to parade a form of religiousness - or, it could be describing the real Life and Light within me and the real battle on the road of faith in Christ.  You have your view of that from the experience you have sorted out and will write it off that way or just think of it as a fantasy pursuit or probably at best just a different pursuit.  

Paul at the Areopagas addressed men who were thinkers looking for some new idea - and were religious in their pursuit of it.  He said they had this altar to an "unknown God" - WHICH God, the God Who Created the world and everything in it  Paul wanted to tell them about.  Some of them accepted what he said - others wanted to kill him.  If you had been there I don't think you would have wanted to kill him (although I have seen some around this website that seem like they would).  Only you could react as you react - but Paul was bringing the gospel and LORD I believe in to Greek thinkers like you.  And Paul was no dumb cookie.  

There is NO solid evidence that any being with truly God-like power exists, let alone a being that corresponds to any of the versions of GOD described in the bible. It also can't be proved tp not exist, but a lot of logical gymnastics are required to fit it to the world we observe and experience, especially to 'justify' the sufferring we see, much of which is inflicted on children, including the youngest. You demonstrated this when you tried to justify the failure of the Bible to clearly condemn slavery, and again when you tried to explain why things like Ebola exist.

Your personal feelings and/or intuitions can prove nothing by themselves, but you repeatedly assert that that is how you 'know' GOD is a 'fact'. With every response, you seem to confirm the impression that you adopted your beliefs as a package deal without any serious consideration or even awareness of the many such apparent logical and/or moral difficulties.

How would such a being come to exist in the first place? The natural development/evolution of the world we see is at least as plausible as that such a complex being capable of creating everything just 'came into existence', or, more of a stretch, has always existed. If a GOD needs no explanation for its existence, no 'creator', then neither should we need any such explanation for the existence of merely mortal life in any form.

 Saying that "we are creations", and therefore require a creator, is simply an naked asertion/assumption - there is no logicl necessity tha we cannot have arisen from a puely natural process such as evoltionary natural selection, which is a combination of purely random processes of mutation which can generate any physically possible structure followed by a NON-random process of automatic selection by trial-and-error, where the generated structure which  is most successful in its own survival and replication becomes the current version. 

   Attn.  -- Unrelated to this thread !!   Addressed Clearly to lurkers  not on this site . . .

    People notice, the one-sidedness of these posts. And, Yes,  People do not understand.
 

    From another Thread . . .

     Excuse me for intruding again   Please,  Excuse me for intruding again

   The  Song  lyrics  ''Seventeen'' .. first time, he was "just pretending"

 Stepparenting was necessary with proving a more difficult task with late teen Step children having already ensued,  from   my mom's  1st marriage

  His stepdaughter became pregnant at a extremely early age.  My niece, who I am close to in age, remarked she never knew her grandfather, my mother's first husband

  My sister's situation was interesting, I like the way it was handled and am immensely proud of the outstandinging way  my mother and father dealt with her situation. All I got was bits and pieces regarding/about all that transpired, or about who she got involved with . . The guy created a situation and their reactions were necessary, it reflected THE reality  of her situation , with my sis finding herself scared . . . 

    Interesting thing about my step-sister's first born baby child, with the status of the child, apparently they were never legally married to each other, in her case. I never asked her, but I feel  she was only wanting affection. It was just so so sad. About her first child's father, was the real '' pretender '' . . In that case, he did everything to maneuver his way to direct access with her. 

  Song lyrics says the rest . . .

  Seventeen, he was my everything
  My first kiss, first touch, first love to remember
  And he played the part knowing I'd fall so hard
  I was young enough to know how to surrender
  And he was old enough to be a pretender

   Whispered "I love you's" don't mean much
  When you open up your eyes and
  Find you're not the only one who's felt his touch
  His memories cut so deep they keep reminding me of

   Seventeen, he was my everything
  My first kiss, first touch, first love to remember
  And he played the part knowing I'd fall so hard
  I was young enough to know how to surrender
  And he was old enough to be a pretender

If I had to do it over; There's no chance that I would ever
Let his perfect smile pull me in
If I knew that he was just pretending

Seventeen, he was my everything
My first kiss, first touch, first love to remember
He played the part knowing I'd fall so hard
I was young enough to know how to surrender
And he was old enough to be a pretender

   Where is my promise I'd be nearby ? Where is my promise I'd be nearby ?

   Count your blessings . .

  1 Thessalonians 5-18  --  In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of G-d  in whom we belong in . .

  I would be a lying and a pretender myself if I were to say I was very thankful of late, I am in so much pain of late !!

   It's still at a point, where nothing makes much sense right now,  I wish I could say I understand this unique situation!

   >  Artist(s)  It's  "Jane-Dear" not "Dear-Jane" . .   When are you going to wake up ?!??? C'mon . . Really ?!?? 

 YouTube  Song --  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG1JKd3OiIc {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG1JKd3OiIc}

   No time to edit  --  Have to fly  . . .

    Good thing we'LL get a chance to talk soon, at least, I do hope! 

  Off-site  --

    { 93MxIII  wrote } 

  p.s. --   93MxIII posted and said, ''I show up they just resent me and don't think of me as a christian, because they didnt even think to ask what I was doing.  So I go to church all alone and I leave right away, because nobody I care about even talks to me but when they do its all negative '' Look all around you, Yes! A Problem exists!!  It make take some give  and some freedom, I'd think, huh ?!? I dont know what I'm supposed to do (. . yet) !

[It was still quite easy...

Hmm, so you are not using the 'standard' (dictionary) definition of the word 'religion' - the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods - ?

The whole story of the crucifictiion is, to me, a prime example of the nonsense in the Bible. It seems to hark back to some very primitive ideas, such as the 'magic' of blood sacrifice, which in turn appeals to a magic in blood itself, which includes a revulsion against female menstruation, and a capability to 'wash away sin'.

The idea that God is prepared to 'save' us from himself if we will suck up to him enough, and goes through the absurdity of manifesting a version of himself as a mortal who 'suffers' a temporary 'death' before heading back to 'heaven'... aaarrggh! The gullibility of humanity that can swallow this crap drives me to the ultmate 'face-palm'.

  There is a real problem, actually a couple of problems with these post I have posted.

   Missing and caring about people is all in attempts to "keep them calm"

   Other  0 f f  -  s i t e  --  Hold on! Getting people to tell the truth involves making a conscious choice to take a different approach other than the one that comes most naturally to people. Sometimes it runs the great level of risk. As a result, I should mention briefly, *that wasn't even remotely about disparaging the character of any very nice girl(s) who might have ever read this. I am reminded of Baal's consort, evidently also his sister, who you all natually recall was the goddess Anat. With Anat, she was far more than your red-headed Irish temperament traits personified. Fore she was literally the slayer of death (the god Mot)!  Remembering,  The wicked  are to  a great extent very pious and religious people, often times, with  hidden lasciviousness, all in the family (all in the family) Occasionally even 'nice girls' could barely concealing the disgust in her voice, why is that ? I cannot imagine what a nice girl might think was even being insinuated ?!?  No harm and no foul. It's OKay to speak up! And, Boy!   It's going to be where the mind must begin to boggle, in part.  ( Image part of comment ) Image part of comment

Bob,

Yes I'll tell you what my conviction is based on but you have already said and shown several ways it's foolishness to you.  

My conviction that what I experience is True is due to the fact that first:  I believe the Gospel - that Jesus IS the Son of God, that God became man, born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, became the Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world (those who believe in Him), Rose from the dead to an Indestructible Life and Eternal Victory (which I now share in).  This is the Corner Stone of TRUTH to me.  And I believe the Word of God is God - Breathed (ALL OF IT).  

Since Jesus is Alive (the LIVING WAY), He adds an element missing in your knowledge -LIFE.  Jesus has been revealed as our Wisdom - He Breathes Life into the Knowledge of God.  If you loved God and longed for the Knowledge of God this could be open to you.  You don't, it isn't, you reject the most fundamental element of Knowledge and Wisdom - the fear of God.  So there you are Bob.  It's not that these things are difficult - it's that God hasn't opened them to you (hasn't Breathed Life into it for you because you are indifferent to it - you don't need it, you don't need God, you have yourself to believe in).  That door opens from the "Bob" side.  But I think old "Bob" is leaning against the door like that tree pictured, hand's folded, radiating uninterested body language head to toe.  

OK, so you believe it because you believe the Gospel, so what convinced you the Gospel is true?

Bob,

I don't know really.  I had heard the gospel as a kid but it didn't register.  Some people had something I wanted but I didn't know what it was.  I started reading the Bible by myself at Genesis 1.  At a certain point in the Old Testament the gospel message I had heard "clicked".  Christ is all through the Old Testament (as He said).  I understood, it all made sense (what I knew at that point).  I was baptized that same day.  According to the Scriptures - saving faith is a Gift from God, like a miraculous spiritual calling from God so to speak.  He gives it (faith) to whoever He chooses; however, it is also true that "whosoever will may come" to the feast.  So whoever is saved is totally the result of God's Work - but whoever is lost is totally responsible themselves.  All are called.    

I'd like to ask you something Bob.  I have mentioned several times that a thing that gives me great inner strength is knowing that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are with me.  Who is with you?  Are you alone facing the world?  I know you have friends, etc. but there are times when you're not with them.  Who is with you then?